Biotic
Hall of Fame
He sure had better anticipation, esp. vs servebots. Calling him a better returner overall is a bit of a stretch, i haven't seen anyone better than Djoko (on HC and grass) when he goes into lockdown mode for a few games.
Kyrgios 3rd man to serve 30 aces in a Wimbledon final in past 30 years
- Thread starter Kralingen
- Start date
He sure had better anticipation, esp. vs servebots. Calling him a better returner overall is a bit of a stretch, i haven't seen anyone better than Djoko (on HC and grass) when he goes into lockdown mode for a few games.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
peak Fed was, yeah, though I’d add a caveat that Djokovic was better on second serves
but 2009 isn’t peak Fed and he could have certainly done more on the return in that match
T
TheNachoMan
Guest
I don’t enjoy the 2009 match at all. That missed volley by Roddick was ROFLMAOtier. If it’s Zverev or any other NextGen, we never hear the end of it.
Biotic
Hall of Fame
InsideOut900
Legend
He served very well in the 3rd and 4th too, but Novak starting getting much better reads on it
The Guru
Legend
Eh that miss is overrated. He should’ve made it but it was far from a Djokosmash. It was actually a tricky volley but he did miss it in spectacular fashion. Next Gen would be fried for it but they get fried for everything so that doesn’t mean anything. I agree on the match though it was not entertaining not very quality and Roddick losing was just depressing even as someone who likes Fed more than Rod. Match best forgotten.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Not even top 1000.
I mean, he should have made it but it's so far from the truly ridiculous misses like Zverev was committing in the RG semi.
Lozo1016
Hall of Fame
According to Tennis Abstract*, that was the 4th highest ace percentage (24.0%) allowed by Novak in his career.
#1 - Kyrgios 34.2% (2017 Acapulco QF)
#2 - Federer 24.5% (2019 ATP Finals - Round Robin)
#3 - Karlovic 24.1% (2008 Madrid Masters R16)
#4 - Kyrgios 24.0% (2022 Wimbledon F)
Kyrgios was dealing on Sunday, but once Novak could get a rally going, it was tough for Nick to close out the point.
*Olympic and Davis Cup stats missing from data.
#1 - Kyrgios 34.2% (2017 Acapulco QF)
#2 - Federer 24.5% (2019 ATP Finals - Round Robin)
#3 - Karlovic 24.1% (2008 Madrid Masters R16)
#4 - Kyrgios 24.0% (2022 Wimbledon F)
Kyrgios was dealing on Sunday, but once Novak could get a rally going, it was tough for Nick to close out the point.
*Olympic and Davis Cup stats missing from data.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
tbh it wasn’t the worst volley ever… somewhat tricky position
obviously he should have made it but as far as misses go this isn’t quite up there with the worst
probably worth noting that Roddick was actually a bit clutch in the first place to make the match as close as it was with virtually every statistic favoring Fed
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
That was the only significant instance of choking from Dick in the entire ultra long match (the bad game to drop serve at the end was a result of exhaustion I think - something had to give), and mugs still clown him for that. Yesterday's final had Kyrgios choke up at the end of each set he lost, but not a pip can be found.
InsideOut900
Legend
Relative to height, I think Pete, Roddick and Goran give him a run for his money.
He is definitely in the mix, I have been saying it for years Nick has an ATG level serve.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Fourth best service technique in the XXI century?
Sampras (won his last slam in 02 so he counts)
Roddick
Isner (he's a giant but his technique is excellent too, better than Karlovic, Raonic etc)
Kyrgios
Federer
Not sure how to rank Ivanisevic, epic server but prone to DFs in big matches (but so is Kyrgios only his sample size is tiny so can't tell with certainty).
InsideOut900
Legend
It's a bit tricky because players adapt their motions to their height.
Hypothetical Pete with bazooka rackets maybe? I am considering he is 1.85 tall, which is a huge disadvantage. He doesn't have Nick's serve variety, but the disguise and placement are there and I reckon poly would improve the speed and % to near servebot levels.
Roddick for power/height. It's outrageous how fast he could serve and the placement too. Worst disguise out of the bunch.
Nick for the complete package, with Roddick's raw speed I think his serve would be the best ever
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Well, was he? That was Karlovic's best run and beat arguably better players than Nick did.
D
Deleted member 779124
Guest
Enjoyment or not 2009 was a high quality match. It's doesn't have to rated the best but that's the bare min.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Zverev would never get in that position so it's all moot. He's never actually gotten to a winning position against the Big 3 at slam level.
Biotic
Hall of Fame
ivanisevic was 59% in 1992 against agassi. i think roddick was above 70% against fed in 2009.
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
I got this from UTS. Where did you get the 59%?
BorgTheGOAT
Legend
Those Zverev misses were truly ridiculous. Zverev easily has the worst volleys of all next-genners and this says something as none of them is particularly great here.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Unfortunately, the serve was all he had. His ground game is so limited to challenge the best baseline players.
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
Well, he only hits for an hour a day.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Yeah he wouldn't have made the final in a normal Slam.
RF-18
Talk Tennis Guru
Might be the best serve ever. Even Ivanisevic in the post presser called Nicks serve the best by far currently.
I honestly thought Djokovic would never break this guys serve on sunday. He was even serving better than I expected he would pre match yet Djokovic still managed to muster a couple of break points and pounce on it. He was very lucky he broke him in that 3rd set. The first break however in the 2nd set was huge credit to Novak. He really hit the lottery ticket cause I think he guessed where the serve was going every time that game, and I think it was all 1st serves but the placements were not optimal, and there is som fortune there aswell that is needed in order to break this guy. Otherwise those balls are flying past you if he finds the right angle. Add the fact that his serve is unreadable like Goran and Novak has said, there are no signs to pick up where he might go.
No other player would have broken Nicks serve this day with 73% first serves and many 2nd serves that were like first serves aswell. It's the best piece of serving I ever saw the last 10-15 years.
I honestly thought Djokovic would never break this guys serve on sunday. He was even serving better than I expected he would pre match yet Djokovic still managed to muster a couple of break points and pounce on it. He was very lucky he broke him in that 3rd set. The first break however in the 2nd set was huge credit to Novak. He really hit the lottery ticket cause I think he guessed where the serve was going every time that game, and I think it was all 1st serves but the placements were not optimal, and there is som fortune there aswell that is needed in order to break this guy. Otherwise those balls are flying past you if he finds the right angle. Add the fact that his serve is unreadable like Goran and Novak has said, there are no signs to pick up where he might go.
No other player would have broken Nicks serve this day with 73% first serves and many 2nd serves that were like first serves aswell. It's the best piece of serving I ever saw the last 10-15 years.
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Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
Weirdly I think he’d have had a good chance against anyone under 30. I mean we saw against Tsitsipas, he’s got a more natural grass game and the younger guys have a tendency to be nervy and able to be intimidated as well. There’s no real returning talent in the NextGen nor is there an elite slice or natural grass player. He was even outplaying FAA before the injury last year. He’d certainly get to tiebreaks. Berrettini Kygs would be interesting on grass I think but I’d prob favor him over the rest.
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
Fed’s record will never be broken due to the new 5th set tiebreak rules, as he effectively played 7 sets to get to those 50 aces.
I think Nick could well have broken goran’s record if he got it to a 5th set yesterday though. He was already at 30 and only 16 service games, 8 aces in a set is doable.
Holy crap, almost two aces per game?
I'm honestly surprised Kyrgios's stats were quite that good because it sure felt like Novak was in a lot of Nick's service games after the first set. Speaks to Novak's abilities on return as well as Nick's prowess on serve – for all the talk of him not being clutch, he saw off a lot of half-chances from Novak (30-30, 15-30, deuce, etc.) with massive, pin-point serves. I think far more often than not, Kyrgios was clutch in his serving, although the times when he wasn't (the two breaks, the tiebreak) were pretty spectacularly so. Though to be honest I don't blame him for the double fault to start the tiebreak. That was a play he'd used a number of times in the match to great success. He just happened to miss that one. If he'd spun an ordinary second serve in and lost the point, people would be criticizing him for not taking more of a chance.
Indeed! Novak said Nick was probably the toughest server he ever faced. I thojught Novak made a mistake taking a shower break after the third set as Nick was shaken up and depressed losing the third set the way he did. Novak's break gave Nick a chance to calm down and get a second wind so that the fourth set was very close. IMHO, this was a very well played and exciting Wimbledon final. I loved the fact that Nick kept his Red basecall cap on during the trophy ceremonies. Wimbledon would not dare try to stop him.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Nick happened to miss that one because the importance of the tiebreak made him nervous. Typical stuff, I recall he DFed in TB against Nadal at AO and before that against Fed in Miami back then. Kyrgibot is pretty lousy in tiebreaks against quality players - say, top 20 - in big tournaments (masters and above), with a 25-33 career record, which narrows further down to 8-17 in the last five years (youngios was clutcher than his mentally shaken later self). In fact, at this very Wimbledon Kyrgios double faulted in every other tiebreak he played (vs Tsitsipas [1st set], Garin, and Djokovic), some clutch. Hasn't won the tiebreak battle (i.e. won more TBs than lost; several matches where TBs got split) in a big match vs top 20 since Tsonga at 2018 AO, ha.
for me, t was great quality, the serving alone (most important aspect of the game on grass) was spectacular from both from the first till the last point.
and the miss is not overrated. had roddick converted he would be on track to win the trophy. after the miss and loss of the tiebreak he never again had a lead.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Overrated in the sense of apparent badness. It was an obviously makeable volley but far from a routine gimme.
yeah, i also think it was as good as a 4 set wimby final can get. monster serving from kyrgios, credit to djokovic who played a great match.
The Fedfather
Legend
McEnroe noted that Nick lost focus and slowed down his serves in that game in which Djokovic broke him for the first time. Before that point, his serving was on a different level.
Fair enough. Didn’t realize it was such a trend with him.
Daniel Andrade
Hall of Fame
URS%?
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
metsman
G.O.A.T.
Roddick's power actually eroded his placement at his peak and cost him a bit against people like Federer/Hewitt. Also he would start off matches serving 140-145 but would tire down as a result. When he dialed it back to consistently 125-135 range and focused on placing he produced stuff like 09 wimby which is as good as any serving every produced.
Overall Pete has a strong case for having the 2nd best serve ever behind Karlovic and is the shortest of the bunch, and in any case he definitely had the best technique since Roddick is the only guy in the bunch below 6'4" and Roddick's arm/shoulder is a huge outlier.
Pete's serve is like Federer's forehand, technically perfect, but impossible to emulate since it's so demanding. With Safin's BH, I think that is the holy trinity of tennis shots.
I've said for years that Kyrgios has an all time serve and it's clearly true but matters for little since he just doesn't care about making anything of it.
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
That point epitomizes Kyrgios so much lol. In a nutshell that's it.
First of all, the underarm serve is a dumb choice anyways. I get it against Med, Thiem, Rafa, guys who return way behind the baseline. But Novak returns pretty close to the baseline and as we saw has no issues chasing down drop shots near the net.. he tried one at the start of the match and it didn't work.
Second of all, he introduces this element of chaos but it works against him, he plays a rather stupid drop shot which Djoko easily chases down, and he is totally at Djoko's mercy. If Novak went DTL with the shot, no chance Nick gets to it.
Still, he pulls off a stunning reflex volley to save BP, but also an incredibly lucky one given the tactical buildup of the point. But that's Kyrgios for you, the good, the bad, and the ugly all there.
the underarm serve is psychological weapon. it puts the returner under pressure to win the point.
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