Lack of relationship between weeks #1 and Slam Titles
- Thread starter timnz
- Start date
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
I thought you were only worthy of #1 if you win Wimbledon?
#1 =/= World Champion.
Novak has both, of course.
He's a regular Phil Taylor.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Tell him Djokovic is the best ever seen on a tennis court and Djokovic2011 will agree and love you for it.
Russeljones
Talk Tennis Guru
He was damn fine at many of the tournaments where Djokovic beat him though, which is what matters in this discussion (and to you, presumably
Wrong. This is a discussion about the timing of a player's peak and what that does to said player's weeks as number 1, ultimately. If Djokovic's peak truly coincided with Nadal's, so starting from 2007 onwards, there is no way he would have the steam he has now. This would not only have an adverse impact on his weeks as #1, we wouldn't be talking about whether he reaches Federer, we'd be talking whether he'd reach Courier's major total.
This is not about disrespecting Djokovic, this is about paying attention to details. If Nadal's career development was swapped with Djokovic's, he'd be ahead of Federer by now.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Exactly, which is why consistency plays such a big part in tennis or any sport for that matter.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
Novak had the best season EVER with the highest level of tennis EVER and you need to stop agreeing with this Fedal fan coalition of Novak haters.
Please stop replying to my posts, I have put you on ignore.
Unbelievable.
(D2011 isn't nearly as bad as that piece of work though.)
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Novak had the best season EVER with the highest level of tennis EVER and you need to stop agreeing with this Fedal fan coalition of Novak haters.
Please stop replying to my posts, I have put you on ignore.
Unbelievable.
(D2011 isn't nearly as bad as that piece of work though.)
What did I do, babe? :???:
I was only expressing my opinion which is a fact.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
Couldn't agree more.
Djokovic has plenty of slams anyway, he's not slam deficient, so add that to his consistency and you have a very well-rounded resume.
Props to him.
Rafa's consistency isn't bad though either, he held that #2 spot firmly all those years, and eventually moved up to #1.
And then there's Roger.
So all three have been quite consistent in my view.
Don't forget Rafa's 1+ slams per year for the last decade.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Ok, you got me there. :lol::lol:
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
This is a fun forum sometimes.
Nearly everyone on here (including all current participants in this thread) are fun. I include myself in this statement.
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Nathaniel_Near
Guest
This is a fun forum sometimes.
Nearly everyone on here (including all current participants in this thread) are fun. I include myself in this statement.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
No he wasn't. Nadal's peak was from 2006-2010. He was in his prime in 2011 but not at his peak. Two different things.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Please explain to me why you feel that way cc0.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
He knows Russel. My point is completely valid, thanks. All I'm saying is if Djokovic's prime started in 05 and Nadal's started in 2011, it would be peak Nadal running away with weeks at #1 right now. Who would stop him? Djokovic is lucky to be at the peak of his abilities right now. It is what it is, that's not to take anything from him, as history won't remember it that much.
Some sense! Would prime Fed or Nadal not be #1 right now? :lol: Hell, 2013 Nadal could.
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Nathaniel_Near
Guest
2006 Nadal is going to offer up a better season long effort than 2011 Nadal?
Now that's some good shizzle. He's probably not going to do anything too significant at the HC Slams.. won't even reach a final to have a crack at Djokovic. Would be the same old result.. 3-1 in the Slams but Nadal would have less ranking points than he accrued in 2011. I'm not sure how Nadal's 2006 clay form stacks up against his 2011 clay form by the "Gary Duane" metric.. probably better.. can't remember (speaking for RG here).
Now that's some good shizzle. He's probably not going to do anything too significant at the HC Slams.. won't even reach a final to have a crack at Djokovic. Would be the same old result.. 3-1 in the Slams but Nadal would have less ranking points than he accrued in 2011. I'm not sure how Nadal's 2006 clay form stacks up against his 2011 clay form by the "Gary Duane" metric.. probably better.. can't remember (speaking for RG here).
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
2006 Nadal would be world #1 today because he was far and away the best player besides Federer. The guy was sweeping the clay season and playing for the Wimbledon title. Djokovic wouldn't be world #1 in 2006 with Federer around.
cc0509
Talk Tennis Guru
Because players have peaks of about four years. Their primes last longer. As an example, Federer's peak was from 2003-2007 and his prime was 2003-2009. Djokovic's peak/prime cycle started later than Nadal's even though they are nearly the same age.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
As Nathaniel already said, Djokovic is still playing at a high enough level that he'd probably still be number 1 now irrrespective of Fedal's form. Too much butthurt going around atm from the Rafans. And y'all better believe that people will remember who spent longer at #1 in years to come. Accept it and embrace it.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I don't agree but you're certainly entitled to that opinion.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Yeah of course he'd be #1 with peak Fedal around. Just like he was from 07-2010 and 2013.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Of course is he would. Just like in 2012 and 2013 when he held onto the #1 ranking all year...oh wait.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Some sense! You tell 'em Nathaniel! :smile:
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
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Nathaniel_Near
Guest
The standard of consistency and excellence that Djokovic has developed across all surfaces is very difficult to breakthrough for the #1 spot. Nadal in 2006 simply wasn't well rounded enough and hadn't began peaking on HC yet. His game wasn't rounded enough to overhaul Djokovic's current points tally. I get that 2006 Nadal was an excellent player and very exuberant but he was still developing.
Overall, 2011 Nadal > 2006 Nadal.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Let's just say Nole would be the player more likely to have more weeks at #1 and finish as the YE#1 too. Federer's dominance makes you expect too much from Novak NatF but you should know that all players are different.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Yes, but it would take 2011 Djokovic to be ahead of him. Otherwise Novak has won 1 slam per year. If you get to use 2011 Djokovic all the time, then I'll just go around using 2008, 2010 or 2013 Nadal.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
_________
I meant in more recent years and even if all three guys were at their peak at the same time it would be pretty close.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Against Federer of 2012 sure. But irrespective of form is rich considering how close Federer at 30+ years managed to make the race to #1 in 2012 and 2014. Also consider that Nadal ended 2013 #1 a head of Djokovic despite playing just 3 slams...
I guess you just meant irrespective of their forms now. Which isn't saying so much really.
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Nathaniel_Near
Guest
I'm using 2014-2015 Djokovic and his currently run of form, results and points tally.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Yeah, and broken down Nadal and old Fed. I can't wait till someone actually shows up and reminds you people what competition is.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
Basically two, the other was a 1R loss.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Yes, but it would take 2011 Djokovic to be ahead of him. Otherwise Novak has won 1 slam per year. If you get to use 2011 Djokovic all the time, then I'll just go around using 2008, 2010 or 2013 Nadal.
And THIS is exactly the reason why you're so bitter about Novak overtaking Nadal in weeks at #1(and let's not kid ourselves that you're not MN). Be honest, the way you see it is that Nole should not have more weeks at the top due to having two less multi-slam seasons but you should know that the rankings are as much about consistency as they are winning. Thus Nole's YE#1 seasons are just as legitimate as any of Nadal's no matter how you slice it.
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Nathaniel_Near
Guest
Nadal won a lot more in 2010 than 2011 but didn't beat so many top-10 players and was as prolific in reaching the last stages of tournaments in 2011 but got blind-sided by a GOATing Serbian.
I prefer Nadal's level from 2008 and 2013 to 2010.
Djokovic only has one such year.. something he's trying to rectify now.
I prefer Nadal's level from 2008 and 2013 to 2010.
Djokovic only has one such year.. something he's trying to rectify now.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Dude, it's tennis, we're having a discussion, I'm in a great mood and not bitter. Stop with that ****. I'm driving to FL today and totally excited about my job interviews there, please learn how to have a discussion without making things personal.
NatF
Bionic Poster
This is true, the competition was tougher in 2011. However I think there was a clear difference in Nadal's form at the latter 3 slams in 2010. I agree that 2008 and 2013 were the better seasons for Nadal - 08-early 09 the best IMO.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
This entire paragraph is false, I don't have a problem with Novak's weeks. What I've maintained this entire thread is that had his peak started in 2005, he'd be in the same boat as Nadal, not that he doesn't deserve what he's EARNED. Where was he during the 06 and 07 Wimby finals? Eating popcorn somewhere?
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Nope, I meant irrespective of their forms in the last few years. Novak's consistency since 2011 has been simply stunning. It takes a loss of points after his best ever season or a rejuvenated player coming off a seven month sabbatical to knock him off his perch.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
Yeah, I don't know what's with that.
You are about as far from "bitter" and "butthurt" as you can be from what I've been reading on here. :lol:
Some things folks say can be bizarre, things I say included.
Good luck with the job interview.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
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Nathaniel_Near
Guest
Sounds about right.
What we should consider though is that: even though Nadal's form was similar in 2011 to 2010 but arguably inferior in the last 3 Slam events (where it counts the most), how much of this can rightly be attributed to having a peak Djokovic thrown at him.
You can be the best at something and then if somebody comes along can beat you, it can knock you back a peg even though you're in the same form and have the same ability and fitness to execute. Djokovic put seeds of doubt into Nadal's mind. For that, he should be commended, but it also isn't that black and white.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
I wasn't aware I was making things personal, just telling it as I see it.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
His loss of points didn't just come from Wimbledon though did they?
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
It's so hard to say.
I prefer not to walk into competition arguments too much, other than to troll weak era proponents.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Fingers crossed, I'm sooooo ready to not be in the Carolinas anymore. Grew up here and turning 30 this year, time to bounce :lol:
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
The only thing you see is text on a screen, and I've told you 50 times now it's not that serious. Stop speaking for people when you start getting owned in arguments, it's unbecoming.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
The points swing between Federer and Djokovic for that SF was immense though, over two thousand I think.
NatF
Bionic Poster
But neither Federer nor Nadal are in the most prolific periods of their careers anymore. Essentially he's had tough competition to win slams but not so tough competition to stay #1 overall.
Indeed, Nadal had better IW and Miami campaigns in 2011 it was only after that things began to go downhill - facing the unstoppable force. His form in the early rounds of Wimbledon was better than ever, he just choked against Djokovic in the final.
So there is an argument for this. Maybe Nadal doesn't do well being the hunted, it doesn't feed into his underdog mentality perhaps? Or perhaps I'm just reading too much into this.
Either way Djokovic should be commended for 2011, Nadal was still in his prime at least and he was well and truly dominated.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Lol, I wasn't getting owned though.
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