More spin with 18x20?

[yessir]

Started playing with the blade v5 18x20 then went to Pure Strike 2nd gen 16x19 then to Blade v7 18x20(difficult racquet for me) then to Pavs and now I am tempted to change to Speed Pro 2022.
Is it my fantasy because I get much more spin with the Speed Pro 2022 than with the Pavs. I can really swing out. In a 2019 graph you can see that the Thiem and Tsitsipas have the highest rpm after Ruud and Nadal and they both use 18x20s.

Topspin Rate: What The 2019 Stats Tell Us

Let’s take a look at the data collected during the season-ending events of last year, the NextGen and ATP Finals.

www.ubitennis.net

 

[nov]

Started playing with the blade v5 18x20 then went to Pure Strike 2nd gen 16x19 then to Blade v7 18x20(difficult racquet for me) then to Pavs and now I am tempted to change to Speed Pro 2022.
Is it my fantasy because I get much more spin with the Speed Pro 2022 than with the Pavs. I can really swing out. In a 2019 graph you can see that the Thiem and Tsitsipas have the highest rpm after Ruud and Nadal and they both use 18x20s.

Topspin Rate: What The 2019 Stats Tell Us

Let’s take a look at the data collected during the season-ending events of last year, the NextGen and ATP Finals.

www.ubitennis.net

Do you know exact data?Or how you know you get more spin?

 

[yessir]

Also : https://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/filedata/fetch?photoid=93284

Tsitsipas top3 with his 18x20 Blade Pro in Miami 2021.

 

[yessir]

Do you know exact data?Or how you know you get more spin?

I dont have data , around 6 players I play with have noticed that they find themselves jammed all the time because they ball has more "forward velocity". Meaning from the moment it touches the ground it explodes forward rather than up.

 

[ewiewp]

Started playing with the blade v5 18x20 then went to Pure Strike 2nd gen 16x19 then to Blade v7 18x20(difficult racquet for me) then to Pavs and now I am tempted to change to Speed Pro 2022.
Is it my fantasy because I get much more spin with the Speed Pro 2022 than with the Pavs. I can really swing out. In a 2019 graph you can see that the Thiem and Tsitsipas have the highest rpm after Ruud and Nadal and they both use 18x20s.

Topspin Rate: What The 2019 Stats Tell Us

Let’s take a look at the data collected during the season-ending events of last year, the NextGen and ATP Finals.

www.ubitennis.net

It confirms both Federer and Nadal were spin masters in their era.

 

[abhi_trip]

@yessir , Spin is a function of racket head speed and not string pattern. I play with a 18 M racket and my backup is a 16 M racket. With 18M rackets, the spin is more forward whereas with 16M rackets it's more upwards.

 

[Hit 'em clean]

Spin is more a function of technique/hitting style than what effect the string bed has on the ball. More open string beds provide easier access to spin, but not necessarily more spin if you're hitting the sweetspot. The advantage of open string patterns with spin shows up as you get further away from the sweetspot versus a tighter pattern. If you make good contact and have good technique you'll get the same/similar spin... the tighter pattern is just a little less forgiving, but also provides better feel and precision.

You do get a little more weight/plow with an 18x20 as well and that generally creates a spinny ball that moves through the court more and doesn't arc as much. You can still create then same arc as with an open pattern, but you usually have to cut the ball a little finer and swing a little more vertically to get the launch and arc.

The beauty of 18x20 is the controlled response of the string bed. It really gets rid of the launch problems a lot of racquets have that have open string patterns. One of my favorite aspects of a good racquet is one that has a very predictable and controlled string bed. I know exactly what I'm getting out of every shot good or bad... and why. I hate it when the ball just launches for no discernible reason... even worse... when it feels 'good' like you made good contact, yet the result is not good.

Pros have obviously excellent technique. I'm sure if Rafa had an 18x20 AeorPro Drive he'd still hit with the same massive amount of spin.

 

[oh_ yuzzz]

Also : https://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/filedata/fetch?photoid=93284

Tsitsipas top3 with his 18x20 Blade Pro in Miami 2021.

Wouldn't Tsitsipas's high backhand RPM be due to him hitting one-handed? Same with Thiem.

Saw this set of data from the same author (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FSRKUTtWQAUfmsE?format=jpg&name=4096x4096). The highest backhand RPM's are from one-handers with the exception of Ruud. I don't find this surprising as 1HBH's can brush over the ball more. I find that forehand RPM is a better comparison as all of the top 100 use one-handers. These are the "heavy topspin" FH players according to the graph I linked.:

• Delbonis 16x19
• Ruud 16x19
• Berretini 16x19
• Duckworth 16x19
• Nadal 16x19
• Jack Draper 16x19
• FAA 16x20
• Alcaraz in 2021 16x20
• Musetti 16x19
• Djere 18x20
• Jordan Thompson 16x19
• Kecmanovic 16x19
• Alcaraz in 2022 16x20
• Steve Johnson 16x19
• Tsitsipas 18x20
• Basilashvili 18x20
• Fognini 16x19

These are the "flat" FH hitter section:

• Mannarino 16x19
• Gilles Simon 18x20
• Medvedev 18x19
• De Minaur 16x19 (I think?)
• Giron 16x20
• Andy Murray 16x19
• Moutet 16x19
• Evans 18x20
• Hurkacz 16x19
• RBA 16x19

I wouldn't be surprised if I'm missing anyone or got any of the string patterns wrong but of the top 17 "heavy topspin" FH, there were 11 with 16x19, 3 with 16x20 (2 of them were Alcaraz for some reason), and 3 with 18x20. Of the 10 "flat" FH, 6 were 16x19, 2 were 18x20, 1 was 18x19, and 1 was 16x20. I'm really not going to spend the time to look at those in the middle. So about 65% of heavy topspin FH were from 16x19 and 60% of flat FH were from 16x19. All this really tells me is that 16x19 is more popular overall. More 16x19's means that it's more likely that a heavy topspin player will be using one. My non-scientific explanation for this is that 16x19's are generally easier to play with so more people learn with one and just stick with it.

As far as spin generation, I'm not convinced that a 18x20 player like Tsitsipas would automatically increase RPM's by swapping to the 16x19 version of his Blade/H22. Pros pretty much hit exclusively in the sweet spot where the difference in string density between 16x19 and 18x20 is not that extreme. I think most players mistake the springiness and higher launch angle of a 16x19 as increased spin, however if you're not imparting the ball with RPM's then it's just a flat ball that's clearing the net more..

 

[Wheelz]

@yessir , Spin is a function of racket head speed and not string pattern. I play with a 18 M racket and my backup is a 16 M racket. With 18M rackets, the spin is more forward whereas with 16M rackets it's more upwards.

That’s how I feel it as well and with speed pro you can sort of do both! Riding forward bounce.

 

[Chairman3]

The Speed Pro is a pretty spin-friendly 18x20
One of the things I really liked about it when I demoed it.

 

[abhi_trip]

That’s how I feel it as well and with speed pro you can sort of do both! Riding forward bounce.

I totally get that. I assume that you love playing like Rublev i.e. heavy topspin with a flatter trajectory. People think that he hits flat, whereas in reality he hits more than 3000rpm on his forehand. Source: https://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/forum/tennisplayer/93283-spin-and-velocity-data-for-atp

 

[Rosstour]

I took a small step backwards in topspin when I switched to the 18/20 from 16/19, but opponents have said the same thing about the ball exploding forward rather than up. I'll take that trade.

 

[abhi_trip]

I took a small step backwards in topspin when I switched to the 18/20 from 16/19, but opponents have said the same thing about the ball exploding forward rather than up. I'll take that trade.

Yes, moreover 18x20 forces you to be a bit more aggressive and hit through the ball. I reckon that you're an aggressive player.
I think people who hit very loopy shots will probably not enjoy 18x20 as the ball may sit up. My hitting partners all hit loopy shots and they prefer 16x19.
A quick aside, how would you compare the TF40 with the Tfight RS 305 ?

 

[Rosstour]

Yes, moreover 18x20 forces you to be a bit more aggressive and hit through the ball. I reckon that you're an aggressive player.
I think people who hit very loopy shots will probably not enjoy 18x20 as the ball may sit up. My hitting partners all hit loopy shots and they prefer 16x19.
A quick aside, how would you compare the TF40 with the Tfight RS 305 ?

I can't compare as I've never tried the Tfight.

You're mostly right about the play style but I do hit "loopy" as well. This racquet has forced (allowed?) me to do that less often.

 

[Rob2D]

More spin is one of the reasons I prefer 18x20. I find I'm able to swing a lot bigger with the closed pattern becuase I'm not afraid of any wild launch angle. I know I can swing out and the ball won't hit the back fence. I have tried to like open patterns but I just can't trust them, and my swings end up being more tentative.

 

[anarosevoli]

@yessir , Spin is a function of racket head speed and not string pattern. I play with a 18 M racket and my backup is a 16 M racket. With 18M rackets, the spin is more forward whereas with 16M rackets it's more upwards.

Spin is rotation of the ball, there is no upwards or forwards. The ball will jump more forwards with same spin but lower trajectory because of lower launch angle of the 18M racquet. The ball will also jump more forwards with same RHS but less spin generation because more of the RHS is converted into power and not spin with 18M racquet compared to 16M. No need to reinvent the wheel, 18M is less spin friendly (waiting for inevitable answers with extreme examples of a wide 18M and a dense 16M lol).

 

[ChrisJR3264]

I’m a big believer in the 18x19. Tecnifibre tfight. Great control and you can get some torque on your heavy top spin balls.

however I was using a TF40 18x20. I was able to hit with some massive top spin when I wanted. I just didn’t like it as much as the tfight. So the more top spin myth of 16x19 over 18x20 is overblown. 16x19 is more top spin friendly with a more open string pattern but I just always feel the ball jumps off the string bed in 16x19. I don’t really need the added power or top spin to my game so when I was using an Ezone 98- the ball was hard to control in long rallies and pocketing wasn’t great.

 

[Winners or Errors]

I agree with those who prefer the launch angle of an 18x20 stringbed. It makes swinging out more comfortable. I don't notice any decline in spin, either. My kicker still hops with a good stroke. My dipping passing shots still dip just as hard. My slice still bites when I hit it properly. There aren't really any big advantages to a more open string pattern, and I'm beginning to believe it has more to do with what one is used to.

 

[vscope]

you may also consider the string spacing. there are tight 16x19 raquets and wide 18x20 raquets.

in general a wider spaced mains raquet has a higher launch angle so you rely on topspin to keep the ball in court. with a low launch angle raquet you can also hit a flat ball with less top spin and still dont overshoot. the direction of acceleration after impact just relies on impact angle and rpm.
high angle will jump high, flat will accelerate to the back fence.

then you have to add strings to the equation. a 16x19 with 16 gauge strings might have the same launch angle as a 18x20 with 1.12mm strings. and eg. edged strings produce a higher launch angle too..

and a heavy topspin shot is not allways hit in the center of the raquet but also often below the center of the raquet so different string spacing there...

in the end many variables to consider and to tinker with...

i prefer a tight 18x20 or 18x19 pattern since i play 1hb. for me a low launch angle raquet has more possibilities in shot creation.