Nadal comparison with Pete, Roger, Novak

[Lew II]

AO titles: Djokovic 8 > Federer 6 > Sampras 2 > Nadal 1
WI titles: Federer 8 > Sampras 7 > Djokovic 5 > Nadal 2
UO titles: Federer 5 = Sampras 5 > Nadal 4 > Djokovic 3
YEC titles: Federer 6 > Djokovic 5 = Sampras 5 > Nadal 0
#1 weeks: Federer 310 > Djokovic 286 = Sampras 286 > Nadal 209

win percentage:

Australian Open: Djokovic 90.4% > Federer 87.2% > Sampras 83.3% > Nadal 82.3%
Wimbledon: Sampras 90.0% > Federer 88.6% > Djokovic 87.8% > Nadal 81.5%
US Open: Sampras 88.7% > Federer 86.4% > Djokovic 86.2% > Nadal 85.3%
YEC: Federer 77.6% > Djokovic 72.0% > Sampras 71.4% > Nadal 56.2%

Nadal trails in everything that is not RG.

What does it tell us?

 

[The Guru]

That his RG greatness is so ridiculous that it makes up all or almost all of the gap you posted in the OP.

 

[pj80]

that he's one of the goats?

 

[Tenacity]

That he is the king of clay, and was not as consistent as other members of BIG3 or Sampras on other surfaces, but that doesn't diminish his achievements.

He is a beast and one of the goats.

And same can be said for Djokovic, Federer or Sampras when it comes to clay.

 

[socallefty]

It tells us that you are very biased because you did not add the line

RG: Nadal 12 > Fed 1= Djokovic 1 > Sampras 0

Nadal is a dominating Clay GOAT at a level that has not been seen in tennis on any surface. He is an ATG on grass and hard courts, but does not belong in the GOAT discussion on either surface. But, combined with his Clay record, H-H against the current GOAT Fed and his Olympic golds, he definitely belongs in the overall GOAT conversation.

 

[MichaelNadal]

That his RG greatness is so ridiculous that it makes up all or almost all of the gap you posted in the OP.

It tells us that you are very biased because you did not add the line

RG: Nadal 12 > Fed 1= Djokovic 1 > Sampras 0

Nadal is a dominating Clay GOAT at a level that has not been seen in tennis on any surface. He is an ATG on grass and hard courts, but does not belong in the GOAT discussion on either surface. But, combined with his Clay record, H-H against the current GOAT Fed and his Olympic golds, he definitely belongs in the overall GOAT conversation.

 

[Azure]

WI titles: Federer 8 > Sampras 7 > Djokovic 5 > Nadal 2
RG titles: Nadal 12 > Federer 1 = Djokovic 1> Sampras 0
YEC titles: Federer 6 > Djokovic 5 = Sampras 5 > Nadal 0
#1 weeks: Federer 310 > Djokovic 286 = Sampras 286 > Nadal 209

Djokovic trails in everything that is not AO.

What does it tell us?

 

[socallefty]

WI titles: Federer 8 > Sampras 7 > Djokovic 5 > Nadal 2
RG titles: Nadal 12 > Federer 1 = Djokovic 1> Sampras 0
YEC titles: Federer 6 > Djokovic 5 = Sampras 5 > Nadal 0
#1 weeks: Federer 310 > Djokovic 286 = Sampras 286 > Nadal 209

Djokovic trails in everything that is not AO.

What does it tell us?

That Federer is the current GOAT, but Djokovic has a chance to make a compelling case if he wins 3-4 more Slams which he is capable of if he doesn’t make boneheaded moves like he did at this USO.

 

[MichaelNadal]

WI titles: Federer 8 > Sampras 7 > Djokovic 5 > Nadal 2
RG titles: Nadal 12 > Federer 1 = Djokovic 1> Sampras 0
YEC titles: Federer 6 > Djokovic 5 = Sampras 5 > Nadal 0
#1 weeks: Federer 310 > Djokovic 286 = Sampras 286 > Nadal 209

Djokovic trails in everything that is not AO.

What does it tell us?

The weeks thing is stupid anyway, considering Nadal had a lot of weeks with more points at #2 than Sampras had at #1. Also the argument became moot once Rafa passed 200 weeks anyway, before that it looked bad, but he's spent 4 years at #1, more than enough. 2019 did him a ton of good, getting that 5th YE#1, 4th US Open etc.

 

[RS]

Not mentioning Masters or Oly as well. Nadal is joint first and first foe Oly titles IIRC.

 

[Azure]

That Federer is the current GOAT, but Djokovic has a chance to make a compelling case if he wins 3-4 more Slams which he is capable of if he doesn’t make boneheaded moves like he did at this USO.

I really, really like all of the big 3 and I frankly despise getting into goat debates. We have literally been spoilt the last couple of decades by these greats of tennis. There is no reason to put any of them down because they've achieved so much and in general are fantastic role models. I meant no snide remark to Djoko with my above post- it's just to show what anyone can do with any set of stats.

The OP conveniently ignores a bunch of other stats that Rafa cannot be touched at, for example or stats like consecutive semis and finals that Rog has had. Novak too has his set of achievements but what purpose does this particular thread serve other than to disparage a great?

 

[Sudacafan]

AO titles: Djokovic 8 > Federer 6 > Sampras 2 > Nadal 1
WI titles: Federer 8 > Sampras 7 > Djokovic 5 > Nadal 2
UO titles: Federer 5 = Sampras 5 > Nadal 4 > Djokovic 3
YEC titles: Federer 6 > Djokovic 5 = Sampras 5 > Nadal 0
#1 weeks: Federer 310 > Djokovic 286 = Sampras 286 > Nadal 209
Nadal trails in everything that is not RG.
What does it tell us?

That we are fed up with this kind of threads?

 

[Sudacafan]

I really, really like all of the big 3 and I frankly despise getting into goat debates. We have literally been spoilt the last couple of decades by these greats of tennis. There is no reason to put any of them down because they've achieved so much and in general are fantastic role models. I meant no snide remark to Djoko with my above post- it's just to show what anyone can do with any set of stats.

The OP conveniently ignores a bunch of other stats that Rafa cannot be touched at, for example or stats like consecutive semis and finals that Rog has had. Novak too has his set of achievements but what purpose does this particular thread serve other than to disparage a great?

What are we doin’ here? Nothing interesting in O&E?

 

[Azure]

What are we doin’ here? Nothing interesting in O&E?

Lol. It's gone silent there!

 

[socallefty]

I really, really like all of the big 3 and I frankly despise getting into goat debates. We have literally been spoilt the last couple of decades by these greats of tennis. There is no reason to put any of them down because they've achieved so much and in general are fantastic role models. I meant no snide remark to Djoko with my above post- it's just to show what anyone can do with any set of stats.

The OP conveniently ignores a bunch of other stats that Rafa cannot be touched at, for example or stats like consecutive semis and finals that Rog has had. Novak too has his set of achievements but what purpose does this particular thread serve other than to disparage a great?

I agree. But I give the OP credit that he at least tries to use stats to push his case for his favorite player being the GOAT. Everyone else spouts subjective opinions which they spout as if it is completely indisputable scientific fact. Reading the OP’s posts has illuminated many interesting facts for me over the years and I give him credit for putting in the time and effort to analyze tennis history to this level of detail. He gets a lot of abuse because it is easier to attack him than his Stats.

I also like all of the Big3 and feel that the OP’s obsession with proving that Novak is the GOAT seems weird to the level of being psychotic as he seems to feel that it can be proved like a mathematical theorem. All he ends up doing is proving that stats can be manipulated to support any argument if they are not treated with scientific rigor and peer review.

 

[MichaelNadal]

I agree. But I give the OP credit that he at least tries to use stats to push his case for his favorite player being the GOAT. Everyone else spouts subjective opinions which they spout as if it is completely indisputable scientific fact. Reading the OP’s posts has illuminated many interesting facts for me over the years and I give him credit for putting in the time and effort to analyze tennis history to this level of detail. He gets a lot of abuse because it is easier to attack him than his Stats.

I also like all of the Big3 and feel that the OP’s obsession with proving that Novak is the GOAT seems weird to the level of being psychotic as he seems to feel that it can be proved like a mathematical theorem. All he ends up doing is proving that stats can be manipulated to support any argument if they are not treated with scientific rigor and peer review.

Especially when you don't include everything.

 

[TheNachoMan]

winning RG just proves what we already know, he’s the clay GOAT. I think numbers can be deceiving.

Fedr and PETE still have the most impressive resumes to me.

 

[MS_07]

AO titles: Djokovic 8 > Federer 6 > Sampras 2 > Nadal 1
WI titles: Federer 8 > Sampras 7 > Djokovic 5 > Nadal 2
UO titles: Federer 5 = Sampras 5 > Nadal 4 > Djokovic 3
YEC titles: Federer 6 > Djokovic 5 = Sampras 5 > Nadal 0
#1 weeks: Federer 310 > Djokovic 286 = Sampras 286 > Nadal 209

Nadal trails in everything that is not RG.

What does it tell us?

still is more humane humble person and has proved his mattle in the great era .

#post2010iscrap #weakesteraofalltime

 

[MichaelNadal]

winning RG just proves what we already know, he’s the clay GOAT. I think numbers can be deceiving.

Fedr and PETE still have the most impressive resumes to me.

 

[TheNachoMan]

Edge and his spear are eww

 

[Turning Pro]

You forgot Nadal has missed around 10 or so slams and been injured during another 6-8 which he had good chances of possibly winning otherwise. And he's still on the brink of being the GOAT and slam co-leader. Wow.

 

[Xemi666]

What does it tell us?

It tells us that Nadal makes you extremely butthurt.

 

[maratha_warrior]

AO titles: Djokovic 8 > Federer 6 > Sampras 2 > Nadal 1
WI titles: Federer 8 > Sampras 7 > Djokovic 5 > Nadal 2
UO titles: Federer 5 = Sampras 5 > Nadal 4 > Djokovic 3
YEC titles: Federer 6 > Djokovic 5 = Sampras 5 > Nadal 0
#1 weeks: Federer 310 > Djokovic 286 = Sampras 286 > Nadal 209

Nadal trails in everything that is not RG.

What does it tell us?

That Fed is the current GOAT .

And Djokodal needs to achieve a bit more than what we were initially thinking .

Djokovic first needs to win 1 more YEC title and get more weeks at No.1 to get into GOAT discussion .

 

[Lew II]

That Fed is the current GOAT .

And Djokodal needs to achieve a bit more than what we were initially thinking .

Djokovic first needs to win 1 more YEC title and get more weeks at No.1 to get into GOAT discussion .

Fed can't be GOAT being 4-10 in Slam finals against Djokodal.

Djokovic is the closest to the flawless career, dominating great opponents on all surfaces.

 

[mehdimike]

Fed can't be GOAT being 4-10 in Slam finals against Djokodal.

Djokovic is the closest to the flawless career, dominating great opponents on all surfaces.

He didn't dominated Nadal on clay unless you mean just for a few matches.

 

[zagor]

AO titles: Djokovic 8 > Federer 6 > Sampras 2 > Nadal 1
WI titles: Federer 8 > Sampras 7 > Djokovic 5 > Nadal 2
UO titles: Federer 5 = Sampras 5 > Nadal 4 > Djokovic 3
YEC titles: Federer 6 > Djokovic 5 = Sampras 5 > Nadal 0
#1 weeks: Federer 310 > Djokovic 286 = Sampras 286 > Nadal 209

Nadal trails in everything that is not RG.

What does it tell us?

Depends on whom you ask, different people value different things in tennis. For me all of Novak, Fed and Sampras are simply better overall players than Nadal but he might end up being greater than any of them at the end given how much pure slam count is valued as a metric in current times.

Unlike those 3 he also never even had his era essentially but he's better than all of them on his best surface and is the best I've ever seen at scheduling and prioritizing which will result in him ending up as a winner in the slam race IMO. Well that coupled with the fact that he's also playing in an era with slow, high bouncing surfaces everywhere and some other factors.

 

[zagor]

I really, really like all of the big 3...

Quite simply unacceptable.

j/k

 

[Lew II]

He didn't dominated Nadal on clay unless you mean just for a few matches.

In 2011, 2015 and 2016 he was the player to beat, although he won only 1 RG.

 

[mehdimike]

In 2011, 2015 and 2016 he was the player to beat, although he won only 1 RG.

What do you mean he was the player to beat?!

 

[Spencer Gore]

It tells me that Nadal had the toughest opponents of any GOAT contender, having to contend with -and get the better of - Federer and Djokovic when they were both younger than Laver was when he won the Open Era Grand Slam.

Federer had it much easier at the start of his career, Djokovic had it easier later in his career; Nadal had it tough all the way.

 

[RS]

Depends on whom you ask, different people value different things in tennis. For me all of Novak, Fed and Sampras are simply better overall players than Nadal but he might end up being greater than any of them at the end given how much pure slam count is valued as a metric in current times.

Unlike those 3 he also never even had his era essentially but he's better than all of them on his best surface and is the best I've ever seen at scheduling and prioritizing which will result in him ending up as a winner in the slam race IMO. Well that coupled with the fact that he's also playing in an era with slow, high bouncing surfaces everywhere and some other factors.

Belittle game on cue.

 

[socallefty]

It tells me that Nadal had the toughest opponents of any GOAT contender, having to contend with -and get the better of - Federer and Djokovic when they were both younger than Laver was when he won the Open Era Grand Slam.

Federer had it much easier at the start of his career, Djokovic had it easier later in his career; Nadal had it tough all the way.

Please clarify why Nadal and Djokovic had different competition when they are about a year apart in age and entered the pro tour two years apart (Nadal 2001, Djokovic 2003). They are both still playing and are the two top-ranked players in the world having won the last 7 Slams between them. The only comment that makes sense if that Federer had it easier early in his career before Novak and Nadal started winning Slams - after that all three of them had to contend with the same competition including each other. Federer is also still ranked in the top 5 and almost won Wimbledon last year.

 

[MichaelNadal]

It tells me that Nadal had the toughest opponents of any GOAT contender, having to contend with -and get the better of - Federer and Djokovic when they were both younger than Laver was when he won the Open Era Grand Slam.

Federer had it much easier at the start of his career, Djokovic had it easier later in his career; Nadal had it tough all the way.

This. He battled with the peakiest of peak Fed (and finally overcame him) and as soon as it was his time, Djokovic exploded. Had Nadal peaked in 2015, or Djokovic peaked in 2006 things would be different, but Rafa is the only one that caught someone biting both ends of the chili dog.

 

[Lew II]

What do you mean he was the player to beat?!

The best player on clay in those seasons.

 

[merwy]

I believe the proper phrase to use here is:

"What it tells us?"

 

[USO]

AO titles: Djokovic 8 > Federer 6 > Sampras 2 > Nadal 1
WI titles: Federer 8 > Sampras 7 > Djokovic 5 > Nadal 2
UO titles: Federer 5 = Sampras 5 > Nadal 4 > Djokovic 3
YEC titles: Federer 6 > Djokovic 5 = Sampras 5 > Nadal 0
#1 weeks: Federer 310 > Djokovic 286 = Sampras 286 > Nadal 209

Nadal trails in everything that is not RG.

What does it tell us?

According to your logic if Nadal wins 100 FO, 4 USO, 4 W, 2 AO for a total of 110 slams, he’d still trail them?

 

[skaj]

AO titles: Djokovic 8 > Federer 6 > Sampras 2 > Nadal 1
WI titles: Federer 8 > Sampras 7 > Djokovic 5 > Nadal 2
UO titles: Federer 5 = Sampras 5 > Nadal 4 > Djokovic 3
YEC titles: Federer 6 > Djokovic 5 = Sampras 5 > Nadal 0
#1 weeks: Federer 310 > Djokovic 286 = Sampras 286 > Nadal 209

Nadal trails in everything that is not RG.

What does it tell us?

Besides the fact that there are more slams on his least favorite surface than on other guys' least favorite surfaces, it tells us that you forgot to include the number of masters, the number of titles overall, the Olympic gold.

 

[Deleted member 748597]

As an objective Novak Djokovic fan, I have the Serb ahead of the Nadal.

As for PETE... 5 Slams is too much.

 

[mehdimike]

The best player on clay in those seasons.

By this logic, all big 3 have dominated on any surface!! So it's not a unique achievement.

 

[Lew II]

According to your logic if Nadal wins 100 FO, 4 USO, 4 W, 2 AO for a total of 110 slams, he’d still trail them?

No, but he doesn't have 100 FOs.

 

[Federev]

That he is the king of clay, and was not as consistent as other members of BIG3 or Sampras on other surfaces, but that doesn't diminish his achievements.

He is a beast and one of the goats.

And same can be said for Djokovic, Federer or Sampras when it comes to clay.

Too mature and true and non-inflammatory.
REPORTED.

 

[Dedans Penthouse]

What does it tell us?

. .That you have it out for him, .despite his all-time great status. . : )
.

 

[zagor]

Belittle game on cue.

Sure, but it's what I honestly think. I don't feel Nadal would have adapted to different eras/conditions as well Fed and Novak.

Not like I ever hid that really.

 

[USO]

No, but he doesn't have 100 FOs.

True, he "only" has 12, maybe soon 13.

 

[Lew II]

True, he "only" has 12, maybe soon 13.

Very different from the example you made.

 

[DSH]

What about multiple GS titles in all surfaces, Year-end No.1 ranking, Olympic Gold in Singles, Masters 1000 trophies and overall titles, biased OP?

 

[USO]

Very different from the example you made.

It's an exaggeration just to show that there's no logic in what you said, you can't start comparing leads like 5>4 with 12>1 as if they are worth the same value.

Also here's a thread that I made that shows how Nadal is one of the greatest outside of the FO.

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/total-slams-without-the-favorite-slam.678709/

 

[RS]

Sure, but it's what I honestly think. I don't feel Nadal would have adapted to different eras/conditions as well Fed and Novak.

Not like I ever hid that really.

Funny because most of tour is favouring Fed/Djokovic more than Nadal.

 

[FRV3]

AO titles: Djokovic 8 > Federer 6 > Sampras 2 > Nadal 1
WI titles: Federer 8 > Sampras 7 > Djokovic 5 > Nadal 2
UO titles: Federer 5 = Sampras 5 > Nadal 4 > Djokovic 3
YEC titles: Federer 6 > Djokovic 5 = Sampras 5 > Nadal 0
#1 weeks: Federer 310 > Djokovic 286 = Sampras 286 > Nadal 209

Fed trails only at RG and AO (to one person).

What does it tell us?


FED IS THE GREATEST

 

[zagor]

Funny because most of tour is favouring Fed/Djokovic more than Nadal.

And that would have been even more the case in eras where there wasn't a concentrated effort to slow down surfaces/conditions across the board.

Conditions matter, if for example they used lighter balls at FO every year like they did in 2011 FO Fed would have been a tough obstacle for Nadal instead a routine win. Ditto for a guy like Lendl who had to serve and volley at Wimbledon to have a shot, I'm sure he would have loved to have played on modern grass with heavier balls.