Nadal has no real rivals in tennis record books

[abmk]

again, you can do what you want.

the WTF is triple E, an elite, 'exhibtionary', event. my opinion and theres nothing you can do about it!

i would take any of the higher coveted MS1000's or most certainly the Singles Olympic Gold over the WTF in a heartbeat.

as a Nadal fan, i would rather he win Miami than the WTF, its not even close!

of course not, I can't do anything to change your opinion. that's pretty obvious. you are as deep in denial as the Mariana trench.

But doesn't change the reality in terms of tennis context - the thing that matters, not your opinion.

YEC >>> Masters 1000 tournaments.

 

[DRII]

There there. Don't try to cover up your lack of common sense by saying there is no such thing. That's bad, even for you.
Move past the denial.

the earth being flat was common sense, the sun revolving around us was once common sense.

given our history, it should be labeled common ignorance vs common sense.

 

[DRII]

of course not, I can't do anything to change your opinion. that's pretty obvious. you are as deep in denial as the Mariana trench.

But doesn't change the reality in terms of tennis context - the thing that matters, not your opinion.

YEC >>> Masters 1000 tournaments.

psyche...

 

[DRII]

Nadal prime slam losses:

Murray x2
Ferrer x2
Tsonga
Gonzalez
Blake
Post injuries Hewitt
Youzny
Rosol
Darcis
Brown
Kyrgios

What's so tough about all these guys? Your argument only works if Nadal was good enough to consistently reach Federer and Djokovic during his prime years - he wasn't. Not on the same level as the other two were with their constant SF/F appearances.

if consistency is the basis of your argument/POV, then yea Nadal is below Federer and Djokovic.

its not for me.

 

[abmk]

the earth being flat was common sense, the sun revolving around us was once common sense.

given our history, it should be labeled common ignorance vs common sense.

wrong and wrong.

people earlier on knew the earth was spherical.

Ancient Indian scriptures for one were clear on that.

even Europeans .

https://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/questions/question54.html

The Columbus thing is a big myth.

https://www.quora.com/Was-Christopher-Columbus-alone-in-thinking-that-the-world-was-spherical

The thing that twisted reality was power/greed of the Church (the part about sun revolving around the earth)

and again ...this is not really relevant to what I said.

 

[DRII]

wrong and wrong.

people earlier on knew the earth was spherical.

Ancient Indian scriptures for one were clear on that.

even Europeans before a certain time.

https://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/StarChild/questions/question54.html

The Columbus thing is a big myth.

https://www.quora.com/Was-Christopher-Columbus-alone-in-thinking-that-the-world-was-spherical

The thing that twisted reality was power/greed of the Church (the part about sun revolving around the earth)

and again ...this is not really relevant to what I said.

hence my, common sense often being used to codify power/tradition comment..

 

[abmk]

hence my, common sense often being used to codify power/tradition comment..

wrong, that was faith/religion/fear being used to codify power/tradition, not common sense.

again, you want to create a record of being so wrong in one single day, be my guest.

 

[KINGROGER]

again, you can do what you want.

the WTF is triple E, an elite, 'exhibtionary', event. my opinion and theres nothing you can do about it!

i would take any of the higher coveted MS1000's or most certainly the Singles Olympic Gold over the WTF in a heartbeat.

as a Nadal fan, i would rather he win Miami than the WTF, its not even close!

Monte Carlo and Olympics singles are inferior to WTF and both exhos. WTF has the very best players in the world. MC isn't even mandatory and many players have skipped or tanked olympic singles.

 

[KINGROGER]

if consistency is the basis of your argument/POV, then yea Nadal is below Federer and Djokovic.

its not for me.

That's the thing Nadal fans can't claim he's had it toughest when he's lost to that level of player so many times during his prime.

For example prime Fed only ever lost to Nadal, Djokovic or a red hot GOATing player (Safin, Del Potro). The only exception being clay ATG Kuerten in 04 while he was still a bit green on clay.

 

[mike danny]

again, you can do what you want.

the WTF is triple E, an elite, 'exhibtionary', event. my opinion and theres nothing you can do about it!

i would take any of the higher coveted MS1000's or most certainly the Singles Olympic Gold over the WTF in a heartbeat.

as a Nadal fan, i would rather he win Miami than the WTF, its not even close!

Well, how the ATP values the WTF is the best we've got. It's certainly much more objective than your opinion.

 

[DRII]

wrong, that was faith/religion/fear being used to codify power/tradition, not common sense.

again, you want to create a record of being so wrong in one single day, be my guest.

you really don't know when to stop.

continue to look foolish, you were embarrassed for weeks after declaring Federer's new more aggressive BH is really nothing new.

your dig continues.

 

[DRII]

Monte Carlo and Olympics singles are inferior to WTF and both exhos. WTF has the very best players in the world. MC isn't even mandatory and many players have skipped or tanked olympic singles.

your and other fedephants opinion.

i said nothing about MC.

 

[DRII]

That's the thing Nadal fans can't claim he's had it toughest when he's lost to that level of player so many times during his prime.

For example prime Fed only ever lost to Nadal, Djokovic or a red hot GOATing player (Safin, Del Potro). The only exception being clay ATG Kuerten in 04 while he was still a bit green on clay.

what you're saying holds little water or truth.

Nadal has had more 'upsets' than Federer or Djokovic, but i focus more on wins than losses when it comes to assessing ATGs.

i guess Canas (sic) is a red hot goating player in your book.

 

[KINGROGER]

your and other fedephants opinion.

i said nothing about MC.

You said about masters 1000s so I pointed out how MC is inferior to WTF. So is Olympic singles gold.

Not opinion, fact.

 

[DRII]

Well, how the ATP values the WTF is the best we've got. It's certainly much more objective than your opinion.

be a slave to the ATP ratings, your choice.

 

[KINGROGER]

what you're saying holds little water or truth.

Nadal has had more 'upsets' than Federer or Djokovic, but i focus more on wins than losses when it comes to assessing ATGs.

i guess Canas (sic) is a red hot goating player in your book.

He's had more upsets so he hasn't had it tougher than the other two.

What I said was nothing more than a factual list of guys Nadal has lost to at slams that aren't top ATG players.

 

[abmk]

you really don't know when to stop.

continue to look foolish, you were embarrassed for weeks after declaring Federer's new more aggressive BH is really nothing new.

your dig continues.

actually you were the one who got completely owned in that argument ... saying dimitrov's BH was somehow the precursor to that. LOL !
I never said federer's BH in 17 didn't have new components...what I said was dimitrov's BH wasn't novel or a precursor to fed's BH in AO 17( federer had played similar to dimi with his BH in AO 09 final )

no one believes your BS except maybe for a couple of nadal fangirls/fanatics.

 

[DRII]

You said about masters 1000s so I pointed out how MC is inferior to WTF. So is Olympic singles gold.

Not opinion, fact.

i specifically said 'highly coveted' MS1000s being ahead of the WTF. i never said MC. you and ambk really need to at least attempt to understand context.

 

[DRII]

He's had more upsets so he hasn't had it tougher than the other two.

What I said was nothing more than a factual list of guys Nadal has lost to at slams that aren't top ATG players.

focusing mainly on losses is foolish.

 

[KINGROGER]

i specifically said 'highly coveted' MS1000s being ahead of the WTF. i never said MC. you and ambk really need to at least attempt to understand context.

My bad missed that part.

That would be Indian wells, Miami, Madrid, Rome and Cincinatti. The rest are basically either exho or 500 level.

Still, none of those tournaments are WTF level which is the 5th biggest tennis tournament.

 

[KINGROGER]

focusing mainly on losses is foolish.

If Nadal didn't have all those shocking losses, or even half then he'd have both more grand slams in total and also more grand slam defeats to both Federer and Djokovic hurting his H2H stat. So they are relevant.

 

[abmk]

i specifically said 'highly coveted' MS1000s being ahead of the WTF. i never said MC. you and ambk really need to at least attempt to understand context.

first of all, its abmk, not ambk. Maybe you should learn to get a username right before pointing a user out in another post that had nothing whatsoever to do with him - that too in a post talking about reading/understanding.

 

[DRII]

first of all, its abmk, not ambk. Maybe you should learn to get a username right before pointing a user out in another post that had nothing whatsoever to do with him - that too in a post talking about reading/understanding.

your username is insignificant.

 

[DRII]

perfect illustration of your problem, your hyper-focus on insignificant details is your downfall.

 

[abmk]

your username is insignificant.

it is when you are posting about me - even more so in a post that had nothing to do with me.
and when you are talking about comprehension of others.

 

[abmk]

perfect illustration of your problem, your hyper-focus on insignificant details is your downfall.

hilarious coming from someone who hasn't got even one thing right in this thread.

Yeah, I'm sure things like 1500 points for YEC compared to 1000 for Masters tournaments is an insignificant detail ..that's why you don't focus on it and I do.
hey, apparently others do focus on that detail ...maybe, maybe , you are so utterly wrong ?

oh and wait, aren't you the guy who was whining about the users not capitalizing N in Nadal, once upon a time ?

truly, utterly, massively, significant !

 

[KINGROGER]

Nadal hasn't exactly had to play tough opponents all the time. 2010 probably the weakest year of them all after AO and both USO draws soft as hell.

Even other finals like RG 08 had pathetic opponents in them. Federer was a joke in that final so he doesn't count and it shows that names aren't everything.

 

[DRII]

hilarious coming from someone who hasn't got even one thing right in this thread.

Yeah, I'm sure things like 1500 points for YEC compared to 1000 for Masters tournaments is an insignificant detail ..that's why you don't focus on it and I do.
hey, apparently others do focus on that detail ...maybe, maybe , you are so utterly wrong ?

again, you can be a slave to the ATP rankings if you'd like. shows your weakness.

do you really think all the MS1000s are the same because the ATP says so?

 

[abmk]

again, you can be a slave to the ATP rankings if you'd like. shows your weakness.

do you really think all the MS1000s are the same because the ATP says so?

I'm saying that's a significant detail. Not the only one. Plenty of other factors involved. The history, the quality of matches, quality of players etc etc.

All the champions in the open era, from Connors , Borg , Mcenroe , Lendl , Becker , Sampras ,Hewitt , Federer , Djokovic have held the Year Championships in very high regard. More so than any Masters 1000 event.

That's the reality.

Saying its some sort of exho is delusional.

 

[DRII]

I'm saying that's a significant detail. Not the only one. Plenty of other factors involved. The history, the quality of matches, quality of players etc etc.

All the champions in the open era, from Connors , Borg , Mcenroe , Lendl , Becker , Sampras ,Hewitt , Federer , Djokovic have held the Year Championships in very high regard. More so than any Masters 1000 event.

That's the reality.

Saying its some sort of exho is delusional.

its an elite exho due to its RR format.

 

[abmk]

its an elite exho due to its RR format.

its the 5th biggest tournament in tennis - as per ATP, as per players, as per history.

RR format is only to give some breather to the players as they are facing top players only.

But that concept may be too tough for you to understand.

Only someone deluded can think its any sort of exho, when so much is there on the line, when players, history, ATP regard it as the 5th biggest tournament in the world.

 

[DRII]

its the 5th biggest tournament in tennis - as per ATP, as per players, as per history.

RR format is only to give some breather to the players as they are facing top players only.

But that concept may be too tough for you to understand.

Only someone deluded can think its any sort of exho, when so much is there on the line, when players, history, ATP regard it as the 5th biggest tournament in the world.

you're wrong, and history does not agree with you.

 

[abmk]

you're wrong, and history does not agree with you.

and what exactly is that based on ?

and let us see where is the evidence of anyone/any institution that matters that calls it an exho.

Here's a newsflash : there isn't. That notion exists only in the dreams/delusions of the *************.

 

[KINGROGER]

you're wrong, and history does not agree with you.

What history are you referring to? The one where all the elite players in open era history have won WTF many times? From Borg to McEnroe, Lendl, Becker, Sampras, Federer, Djokovic and others.

And according to your logic the FIFA World Cup and UEFA Champions Leagues are exhos too. Oh and so is any league competition in any sport.

 

[tennisaddict]

thats like saying; outside of Russia, Putin is a pariah

.

Nadal, for 12 out of 14 years, is a pariah outside of clay.

 

[2HBH-DTL]

WTF is more important than the majority of masters series events. I would say Indian Wells and Miami are on equal ground with WTF. I honestly think both of those should be worth 1250 points instead of just 1000 due to the larger draw. MC needs to be converted to a 500 event.

 

[tennisaddict]

be a slave to the ATP ratings, your choice.

The ATP is a governing body of the sport and you are a nobody. So, let us move on.

 

[Shaolin]

WTF is more important than the majority of masters series events. I would say Indian Wells and Miami are on equal ground with WTF. I honestly think both of those should be worth 1250 points instead of just 1000 due to the larger draw. MC needs to be converted to a 500 event.

Nah, WTF is much more valuable than IW or Miami.

 

[2HBH-DTL]

Nah, WTF is much more valuable than IW or Miami.

Maybe so I guess but I still think they should be worth slightly more points since they're the 2 hardest masters to win back to back.

 

[chjtennis]

We all know Nadal is the greatest player on clay. What's new?

 

[pame]

be a slave to the ATP ratings, your choice.

Well I suppose it's also irrelevant to you that the ATP is the governing body of the sport, and like every other governing body, determines a number of operating regulations and parameters, including the weight given to tournaments.

Can we look forward to the day when your opinion becomes the universally acknowledged rubric for the tour's operations?

 

[pame]

Maybe so I guess but I still think they should be worth slightly more points since they're the 2 hardest masters to win back to back.

When you do that, what happens when and if the ATP decides to split them so they are no longer back to back? Surely one can't weight tournaments on what could turn out to be moveable variables.

 

[DRII]

What history are you referring to? The one where all the elite players in open era history have won WTF many times? From Borg to McEnroe, Lendl, Becker, Sampras, Federer, Djokovic and others.

And according to your logic the FIFA World Cup and UEFA Champions Leagues are exhos too. Oh and so is any league competition in any sport.

look it up.

i've already expounded on this many times before on this forum.

theres a reason the WTF is given 1500 pts to the winner and it belies the notion that the event is so important and historically valuable.

i'll tell you this much: no matter how many points the ATP, or whatever sanctioning body, awarded to the Wimbledon winner -- the player draw would be full year after year!

 

[KINGROGER]

look it up.

i've already expounded on this many times before on this forum.

theres a reason the WTF is given 1500 pts to the winner and it belies the notion that the event is so important and historically valuable.

i'll tell you this much: no matter how many points the ATP, or whatever sanctioning body, awarded to the Wimbledon winner -- the player draw would be full year after year!

I've looked it up and it's only been won the majority of the time by the elite players and is the 5th biggest tennis event behind the grand slams.

 

[smoledman]

Rafa can have all the clay court records in the universe and still lose R128 at Wimbledon like clockwork to some nobody.

 

[Shaolin]

Rafa can have all the clay court records in the universe and still lose R128 at Wimbledon like clockwork to some nobody.

It's always interesting which journeyman he'll lose to at W each year. Maybe Marcus Willis this time, if W gives him a WC.

 

[KineticChain]

seen some posts in this threaderer that are not in favor of rogi

reported

 

[DRII]

Rafa can have all the clay court records in the universe and still lose R128 at Wimbledon like clockwork to some nobody.

we'll see how that works out for you this year.

 

[abmk]

look it up.

i've already expounded on this many times before on this forum.

theres a reason the WTF is given 1500 pts to the winner and it belies the notion that the event is so important and historically valuable.

i'll tell you this much: no matter how many points the ATP, or whatever sanctioning body, awarded to the Wimbledon winner -- the player draw would be full year after year!

and yet again, all bravado with no substance.

Still to see proof of when any Masters 1000 was more prestigious than the YEC.

oh and 1500 points is given because its the 5th biggest event and features only the best of best.

tennis wasn't even played in olympics in open era until till 88 and you have no problem hyping that up, hypocrite !

 

[abmk]

we'll see how that works out for you this year.

yeah, would be amazing losing 5 times in a row to a player ranked 100 and above at the biggest tournament of them of all.
4 is not enough, no ?