Navratilova on clay

[Lionheart392]

As I was born in 1987, classic Navratilova was before my time and I only saw her at Wimbledon really. I know though that she also won the French Open twice, so I was wondering, did she keep her classic serve and volley style on clay too, or adapt her game more?

 

[CEvertFan]

As I was born in 1987, classic Navratilova was before my time and I only saw her at Wimbledon really. I know though that she also won the French Open twice, so I was wondering, did she keep her classic serve and volley style on clay too, or adapt her game more?

On a fast surface like grass or indoor carpet Navratilova would always serve and volley off her first and second serves, off her opponent's second serve and sometimes even off her opponent's first serve. On clay she would usually come to the net off her first serve but would stay back on her second serve and then wait for a good opportunity to come to the net. If she got a short or weak serve from her opponent she would then come forward as well but if she didn't she was again content to stay at the baseline and wait for an opportunity to come forward to present itself.

Basically it came down to picking better times to approach because on a slow surface like red clay if she tried to come forward on just anything there was a greater possibility she could get passed by someone who had great passing shots. So I would say she adapted her game somewhat for clay but she still came to the net a lot.

 

[thalivest]

Martina in her prime from 1982-1987 had great groundstrokes as well. So she could hang from the baseline with the best if needed, although she still wanted and tried to come to net alot. That is why she could do so well on clay, a surface you are forced to play back alot.

She was unlucky to not win more than 2 French Opens. The 2 she won in 1982 and 1984 were both won in completely dominant fashion. She had some narrow losses there too though, 1985 and 1987 come to mind, maybe 1986 to a lesser extent. She was unlucky to be in the era of Chris Evert and later on Steffi Graf on clay. Also unlucky the really close matches there didnt go her way, the same way they seemed to almost always go her way at Wimbledon. I think she is a much better clay courter than just a 2-time winner. At her peak I would like her chances to beat Henin and Sanchez Vicario at their peaks on clay, even though both have won more French Opens than her. I am not saying they would be easy for her by any means but I think she would probably have won 6 or 7 out of 10 say.

It is also interesting how some extremely good clay courters like Sabatini and Conchita Martinez didnt even win 1 French Open, while some much weaker clay courters than them did win 1. Martinez funny enough never impressed me much at all except on clay, the one surface I found she was playing at a very impressive level. On other surfaces she was lucky to even have the success she did IMO, but on clay a bit unlucky. It seems the # of French Opens are often not totally accurate to who the greatest clay courters were except in the cases of Evert, Graf, Lenglen, and possibly Court. Alot of it comes down to when you played on clay more than any other surface it seems. Navratilova played when Evert was dominant on clay. Sabatini and Martinez were unlucky and peaked while Graf, Seles, and Sanchez Vicario ruled the French Open. Sanchez Vicario was probably a bit lucky to win 2 titles after the Seles stabbing, just like Graf was a bit lucky to win as many as 4 more after that point. Sabatini's peak was already over when the Seles's stabbing took place.

 

[Moose Malloy]

here is some of the '85 FO final:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2R9TzorSFs&feature=channel_page

 

[anointedone]

The 1984 French Open final is some of the best clay court tennis ever produced by a women and it allowed her to destroy the greatest women clay courter in history that day. At age 30 she served for the match and title in the 1987 French Open final with Steffi Graf, also one of the 3 greatest clay courters in history. Even an aging Navratilova has a good record vs Sabatini on clay I believe. She was an incredible clay court player, very underrated. The only reason she only 2 won 2 French Opens was Chris Evert, that is all.

 

[BTURNER]

Martina had some slight weaknesses on the ground which Evert could exploit better than most. Her forehand of course was still dominating with its power, but the clay would slow it down just enough that Evert could get there in time to keep deep and sustain the rally rather than get pushed backwards into a defensive situation. For the most part Evert exploited the backhand. The slice so, penetrating, accurate and biting n other surfaces, bounced up high enough that it did not ****** and the Navratilova topspin backhand just wasn't offensive enough to create a serious problem. Evert pummeled the backhand without mercy until a short shot came from there and almost always approached that wing. She could read the pass better and had more reaction time.

Martina's shot selection was occasionally suspect. Watch the pivotal points in the '85 and '86 FO. She picked some lousy times to approach to Evert's backhand wing. I still cannot fathom why, when that was the single best passing shot in that era, Martina would send game and match point approaches that direction. Martina's stubborness with that approach shot certainly lead to the loss of the first set in '85 and the match point.

 

[CEvertFan]

Martina had some slight weaknesses on the ground which Evert could exploit better than most. Her forehand of course was still dominating with its power, but the clay would slow it down just enough that Evert could get there in time to keep deep and sustain the rally rather than get pushed backwards into a defensive situation. For the most part Evert exploited the backhand. The slice so, penetrating, accurate and biting n other surfaces, bounced up high enough that it did not ****** and the Navratilova topspin backhand just wasn't offensive enough to create a serious problem. Evert pummeled the backhand without mercy until a short shot came from there and almost always approached that wing. She could read the pass better and had more reaction time.

Martina's shot selection was occasionally suspect. Watch the pivotal points in the '85 and '86 FO. She picked some lousy times to approach to Evert's backhand wing. I still cannot fathom why, when that was the single best passing shot in that era, Martina would send game and match point approaches that direction. Martina's stubborness with that approach shot certainly lead to the loss of the first set in '85 and the match point.

I would agree with that assessment. Martina did sometimes make bad shot choices. Those BH passing shots from Chris were generally lethal and on clay where she had a bit more time to set up she could thread the needle almost every time.

I have the '84 French Open on DVD and have watched it many times and although Martina played quite well I don't think that Evert played anywhere near her best that day. I think she was still getting used to using a graphite racquet at that stage and by the time the US Open rolled around she was much more comfortable using it and played much better tennis, just narrowly losing that match after winning the first set. Evert lost the '83 US Open because she was still using wood to Martina's graphite and it was a definite disadvantage, which is why she switched to graphite after that.

 

[anointedone]

Yeah I imagine switching racquets like that would be hard at first, but in the long run it was something she had to do at that point. I wonder looking back if she wonders what if she had switched racquets at the end of 1980 instead of at the end of 1983. Evert didnt have a great first part of 1984, she was pretty badly destroyed by Manuela Maleeva in the Italian Open final, and some other shaky results. This probably had alot to do with still getting used to a graphite racquet.

 

[BTURNER]

My previous post could be interpreted as 'nitpicky' for a woman who was in no less than 6 RG finals. If Evert was the best on red clay in the eighties, there is no doubt who number 2 was that decade. Navratilova actually began playing on clay and tailored her S/v game to it before she knew any different. That explains why she knew instinctively how to slide and where to volley even in her teens when she got to the '75 final, an advantage Sampras sure never had!