new to NTRP and Thinking about Playing Competitively Again

[andyaycw]

Coming back from about an 8-year break from tennis and have been thinking about playing competitively again. New to NTRP though and had a few questions I could not find the answers to on the USTA website:

I've just self-rated at a 4.5, which I believe may be too high. My understanding is that the only way to appeal down is to get a computer rating, as self-rated players (apparently) cannot appeal down. How does one achieve a computer rating? Do sanctioned tournaments count and/or would I have to participate in league play?

I used to play tournaments in the junior divisions. I did achieve a year-end sectional ranking one year in the 16 & under division (#200 out of a total of about 240 eligible players, so nothing that impressive), which is why I believe I the system, gave me a 4.5 self-rating, but I never won any matches in Jr Open tournaments; only matches I ever won were in Junior Satellite tournaments.

 

[Z-Man]

The NTRP guidelines are pretty meaningless because your personal history and your ability to hit specific shots aren't indicators of your ability to win tennis matches. If I were you, I'd call the state USTA office and tell them you haven't played in 8 years. Explain that you self-rated based on the written descriptions, but now you think you rated yourself too high. Ask them to remove the rating, but don't have them assign you a new one.

Next, ask a local pro to set you up to hit with a 4.0 who plays lots of league tennis. Anyone who plays a lot of USTA league tennis will be able to guide you to the right rating after a set or two. Keep in mind that you can self rate 3.5 and play 4.0 or 4.5, but if you are in the system as a 4.5, you can only play 4.5 or 5.0 if you can find it. The rule of thumb is that if a person doesn't know what his rating is, he is a 3.5.

One more tip: don't accept rating advice from someone who plays k-Swiss, club league, or anything else that isn't USTA. Ratings in those leagues are inflated.

 

[TomT]

Coming back from about an 8-year break from tennis and have been thinking about playing competitively again. New to NTRP though and had a few questions I could not find the answers to on the USTA website:

I've just self-rated at a 4.5, which I believe may be too high. My understanding is that the only way to appeal down is to get a computer rating, as self-rated players (apparently) cannot appeal down. How does one achieve a computer rating? Do sanctioned tournaments count and/or would I have to participate in league play?

I used to play tournaments in the junior divisions. I did achieve a year-end sectional ranking one year in the 16 & under division (#200 out of a total of about 240 eligible players, so nothing that impressive), which is why I believe I the system, gave me a 4.5 self-rating, but I never won any matches in Jr Open tournaments; only matches I ever won were in Junior Satellite tournaments.

What Z-Man said, plus post some videos and maybe knowledgeable USTA rated posters here can accurately assess your current competitive level. Of course, I'm only posting this because I love watching videos of non-professional tennis players.

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

I believe that you can appeal your self rating on tennis link. If it gets denied on Tennis link then you can type an e-mail to the person in charge of appeals for your section.

Google the web site address for your section and under adult tennis I am sure they will name the person and contact information for your section.

However, 8 years is not that long a layoff and if you played a lot as a junior I think you will find your game comes back very quickly. Do not be afraid to play 4.5. You will gets some on-court lessons early but you will be better for it in the long run.

The only down side to starting as a 4.5 is finding a team that would be willing to take a player that will not be on level for a couple months.

 

[dizzlmcwizzl]

Ask them to remove the rating, but don't have them assign you a new one.

Next, ask a local pro to set you up to hit with a 4.0 who plays lots of league tennis. Anyone who plays a lot of USTA league tennis will be able to guide you to the right rating after a set or two. Keep in mind that you can self rate 3.5 and play 4.0 or 4.5, but if you are in the system as a 4.5, you can only play 4.5 or 5.0 if you can find it.

Z-man gave decent advise here but there is one definite problem and perhaps another.

1) If you manage to get a 3.5 self rating you can only play up to 4.0. According to national rules you cannot play more than 1 division above your current rating. So if you got a 3.5 self rate and you dominated your opponents like I expect will happen, you would only be able to play up to 4.0.

2) I doubt that they will remove your rating all together and further doubt that if the self rate questionnaire suggested a 4.5 they will let you appeal to any lower than a 4.0.

 

[floridatennisdude]

Sign up again using a variation of your name. If you signed up as John Joseph Smith, just use Jonathan J Smith.

Players game the system like that all the time. Welcome to Rec tennis... If you ain't first, you're last.

 

[andyaycw]

Sign up again using a variation of your name. If you signed up as John Joseph Smith, just use Jonathan J Smith.

Players game the system like that all the time. Welcome to Rec tennis... If you ain't first, you're last.

That seems awfully unethical.

In any case, I've found my answer:

http://www.scta.usta.com/AdultsSeniors/usta_leagues/ntrp_ratings/?intloc=headernavsub2

A USTA NTRP Computer Rating is generated by the USTA NTRP Computer Rating Program based on USTA Adult League, Senior League, Super Senior League, SCTA Doubles League, and Sanctioned NTRP play of 3 or more matches.

And also:

3. The 'rating' year starts in November and ends on or about October 31, when the USTA computes the data for the current year end ratings.

I think I'll try 4.5 and see if I get blasted out of the water.

It's just interesting because I know of another player who I played against twice in Juniors, repeatedly qualified for the SCTA Satellite Masters, and is now playing NTRP 3.5 level tournaments. Now I've never been to or seen any true NTRP level matches/tournament play, but if someone with that record is a 3.5 player, then I must be up for a rude awakening for a 4.5 level.

 

[MrCLEAN]

Self rate at 3.0 and dominate.


j/k, you'll figure out quickly if you're in the right place or not, and if you're too high, you'll get bumped down at the end of the year.

 

[Z-Man]

Just keep in mind that captains typically recruit their friends first. Next, people they have played. Finally, they will try a new player or a potential ringer. If you didn't know anyone who could tell you your NTRP, you are probably in the third category. 4.5 singles players at state tournaments are beasts. A lot of them played D1 or D2 tennis. Some of them played at that level in the past few years.

It's very easy to get into league tennis if you are a bit under rated. Your phone will be ringing off the hook--mixed, combo, tri-level, etc. Sadly, no 4.5 team is looking for a guy who hasn't played in 8 years--unless it was Davis Cup for a country nobody has heard of. I don't know anything about your level or your history, but I think you will find 4.5 is surprisingly good. 5.0 barely exists, so the top players have to go somewhere. I'm not sure about not being to play 2 levels up. That might depend on the state.

Regardless, please keep in touch and let us know how it goes.

 

[andyaycw]

I did do a little bit of research, looking up player records of people I have been hitting around with for the past several weeks, and found a few that have racked up quite a few league matches and are computer-rated 4.0, whose playing level is very close to mine. So I think I can safely stop trying to Youtube videos of "NTRP 4.0" and instead use the for-sure computer-rated 4.0 players to gauge where I'm really at?

I've just sent off an email to the section director regarding the NTRP appeals process, and hope I won't have to keep getting my butt whooped at the 4.5 level for too long, if at all.

Thanks everyone,

 

[spot]

Sounds like the right decision- you would have been killed at 4.5. You probably could have played some 3.5 but by the end of the season if you were serious about improving you would have probably been a major DQ risk. 4.0 is probably a level where you can play comfortably once you start playing on a regular basis.

 

[Turbo-87]

I did do a little bit of research, looking up player records of people I have been hitting around with for the past several weeks, and found a few that have racked up quite a few league matches and are computer-rated 4.0, whose playing level is very close to mine. So I think I can safely stop trying to Youtube videos of "NTRP 4.0" and instead use the for-sure computer-rated 4.0 players to gauge where I'm really at?

I've just sent off an email to the section director regarding the NTRP appeals process, and hope I won't have to keep getting my butt whooped at the 4.5 level for too long, if at all.

Thanks everyone,

Let us know how that goes. Appealing down is rarely successful.

 

[Govnor]

Good luck. Legit 4.5 is a very high standard. Do all the extra training/hitting you can.

 

[gmatheis]

Let us know how that goes. Appealing down is rarely successful.

appealing down when you just guessed wrong at your own self rate isnt all that uncommon and is often granted.

 

[Turbo-87]

appealing down when you just guessed wrong at your own self rate isnt all that uncommon and is often granted.

Mine wasn't. I was denied because I was a collegiate swimmer. Go figure.

 

[Joeyg]

Sign up again using a variation of your name. If you signed up as John Joseph Smith, just use Jonathan J Smith.

Players game the system like that all the time. Welcome to Rec tennis... If you ain't first, you're last.

That is actually an offense punishable by suspension. It has happened at least once in NorCal that I am aware of.

 

[NTRPolice]

Legit 4.5 is a pretty high level of tennis to play, dont forget. A "talented" 4.5 can win "open" events, and even events with prize money. They probably wont get any ATP points, but they can certainly play "casual open" events and win.

Also, dont lie on your application. It's stupid and when you get caught I can assure you that it will be during the worst possible time. You might get away with an alias for years, but the one year your team goes to nationals you will get caught and forfeit all your matches. You will go from hero to zero in an instant.

Just today we played a "3.0" in a 7.0 doubles league who played college. Granted, the college tennis program at the community/junior college he played for was canceled, he DID play high school. It's a good thing hes fat and out of practice. We won 0-4, but I had a feeling they were sandbagging the first set to us which ended up backfiring.

He's playing on the "family" team for that club because the captain probably wouldnt allow such a "self-rated risk" on one of their serious teams.

This guy was acing my partner with second serves out wide.

 

[Z-Man]

Legit 4.5 is a pretty high level of tennis to play, dont forget. A "talented" 4.5 can win "open" events, and even events with prize money. They probably wont get any ATP points, but they can certainly play "casual open" events and win.

Also, dont lie on your application. It's stupid and when you get caught I can assure you that it will be during the worst possible time. You might get away with an alias for years, but the one year your team goes to nationals you will get caught and forfeit all your matches. You will go from hero to zero in an instant.

Just today we played a "3.0" in a 7.0 doubles league who played college. Granted, the college tennis program at the community/junior college he played for was canceled, he DID play high school. It's a good thing hes fat and out of practice. We won 0-4, but I had a feeling they were sandbagging the first set to us which ended up backfiring.

He's playing on the "family" team for that club because the captain probably wouldnt allow such a "self-rated risk" on one of their serious teams.

This guy was acing my partner with second serves out wide.

Dude, your screen name is freaky.