Old racquets do not become less effective

[markwillplay]

So I have played tennis for quite some time. I am almost 47 and have played with sticks from max 200g to yonex rds tour, Beckers, volkls, and yes I have played with the Babs...although briefly. It is my opinion that players today play with the frames they were into as young players...and they were into those frames because of marketing, not because older frames became obsolete. I know the game has changed and that 85 heads are not optimal, but when I was 25 most people were playing with sticks larger than that. I read hear where a person said that the max 200g simply could not be used to compete in today's game. Crazy. Yes it is flexible, but it is very stable against ANY pace and does supply power in the right hands. I have been playing with prince tour 18 20 frames and have enjoyed them...however, there is no way that they are more effective in the right hands than my pog 4 stripes....no way. I bought a prince graphite pro 90 for fun to take a trip down memory lane. Wholly fudge batman. I hit with it today and the kid I was hitting against could not believe the spin I was getting. Duh, 14 x 18 pattern....uh, spin pattern, and 12.8oz of headlight mass coming through the ball gets you there. I probably won't compete with it, but I could...and I could swing it all day even at 12.8 because of the way the thin beam goes through the air. Great frame. For noe, I have committed to the pog os again for league season and do not feel at all like I am behind the times.

There is a myth out there that the newer sticks are "designed for the modern game" and that older sticks are comfy but can't hold up. Ask the 16 year old (who by the way was using a flexible microgel radical mp today) what he thought of the balls I was hitting at him. I could not believe the ease of depth and heaviness of the balls I hit with that old flexible graphite pro. Mass is mass. I will concede that larger head sizes are more able to deal with big spin hitters and Federer is a great example of what it can mean to a pro to get a little bit more margin with them, but the need for new technologies is about sales. Younger pros play with what they were inspired by marketing to play with when they were learning the game.

 

[esgee48]

I completely agree with your assessment. Problem is getting grommets for older frames. That's what forced me to upgrade otw I would still be using an old PK Destiny(s).

 

[nvr2old]

Intersteing premise. One I think I agree with in principle. Just got back into the game after many years but started at age 10 and am now 60 and can hit it in sweet spot very easily with the "standard" 97-98 si head sizes quite easily. I think if you can hit and have the correct technique many racquets will still be effective. I had a Head aluminum racquet with a red throat that I loved and hit very well in the late 70's. Probably 80-85 si head I'd guess. Later had a Yamaha "composite" that was more "modern" in the 80-90's again. I play guitar also (not week) and it's often said a pro player can make anything sound great and I think same for tennis, if you can play it doesn't matter what you're using. Ken

 

[Bobby Jr]

The stiffness of a racquet in a practical sense is about 1% of the power equation. The swing speed and weight of the racquet combined comprise the vast majority of the power equation with timing, strings and tension following. Stiffness per se is barely a blip on the radar.

Stiffness (high or low) is primarily about how sharp/crisp/soft you like your feel and, again, strings and tension play a big role in that too.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

A pro will destroy you with a wooden racket.
Equipment is 5% of the equation.
Travel back in time to 1985, and try to beat the #1 with your AeroPutz and your 3.5 skills.
Lendl will eat your AeroPud for a snack.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I see the opposite.
Guys in their 40s all use Nadal and Fed rackets.
People laugh at my old 2005 rackets.

As I improve, I am breaking out my high school Price racket just to make a point.

 

[Readers]

A pro will destroy you with a wooden racket.
Equipment is 5% of the equation.
Travel back in time to 1985, and try to beat the #1 with your AeroPutz and your 3.5 skills.
Lendl will eat your AeroPud for a snack.

Why stupid people always bring skill into a gear discussion?

 

[markwillplay]

Don't get me wrong, I definitely think that the newer stiff frames help people who have less ability. The newer frames are good for that, but for people who have decent technique,....I think some of the older frames are a better option, especially with poly strings. Flex and weight help to tolerate polys. My take only.

 

[am1899]

A pro will destroy you with a wooden racket.
Equipment is 5% of the equation.
Travel back in time to 1985, and try to beat the #1 with your AeroPutz and your 3.5 skills.
Lendl will eat your AeroPud for a snack.

Can I borrow your time machine?

The shape and flex of racquets many pros these days tend to select to play with have changed a bit. But one thing hasn't changed. There's no substitution for the stability and plow through a heavier frame provides. Which is why we see many of the most successful pros (especially the men) wielding frames much heavier than the retail frames they endorse.

 

[Power Player]

Don't get me wrong, I definitely think that the newer stiff frames help people who have less ability. The newer frames are good for that, but for people who have decent technique,....I think some of the older frames are a better option, especially with poly strings. Flex and weight help to tolerate polys. My take only.

I'm not seeing it and I have a PT630, and have used more classic frames weighted at 345 or more for years. I do agree that old frames do tolerate poly well though.

The newer more modern fame essentially allow you to play at a lighter weight (I'm down to 330) with really no repercussions.I play guys with stock Babs all the time who compete in open tournies. A coach I work with sometimes has won challengers with a 330 gram stock Yonex and can return serves over 125 like it's nothing. If you make it to the pro ranks, then your weight will probably go up, at least your SW will. We all know Nadal leads up for a high SW, but his frame is still rather light.

Anyway, it's not about lesser ability. There are plenty of guys who would smoke everyone in this thread using stock Babs in colleges and challengers all over the country. Nothing wrong with using a heavy classic frame, but there's more than one way to compete at a high level, and the amount of RPMs you can put on the ball with a lighter, stiff power frame with full poly is off the charts.

 

[markwillplay]

Agreed. I am not saying that new, lighter frames can't help people compete. I am saying that the older frames are still relevant. If you have a half swing or short swing then you will benefit from the lighter sticks. However, play someone who hits a heavy ball and tell me how that 11 oz stick does. The whole point of my thread was to say that the older sticks did not go out of style because they were not effective. A kid I played in my early 20s hit the hardest ball I have ever seen off the ground...and yes, crazy spin....with a prince pro 90. That's why I decided to pick one up.

 

[el sergento]

The stiffness of a racquet in a practical sense is about 1% of the power equation. The swing speed and weight of the racquet combined comprise the vast majority of the power equation with timing, strings and tension following. Stiffness per se is barely a blip on the radar.

Stiffness (high or low) is primarily about how sharp/crisp/soft you like your feel and, again, strings and tension play a big role in that too.

Completely disagree. You'll never get an old school Prestige or any other super soft frame to play like an APD or a Pure Drive. If you could, why on earth would anyone buy a Babolat, for the buttery stiff feel?

Sure, marketing plays a role for the kids, but serious players that pay good money to play in leagues only care about results, and in my experience, those players overwhelmingly use modern rackets.

I see the opposite.
Guys in their 40s all use Nadal and Fed rackets.
People laugh at my old 2005 rackets.

As I improve, I am breaking out my high school Price racket just to make a point.

As you improve, use a stiffer racket and marvel at how much better they play. Again, why do pro's use modern stiff rackets? If it benefits them, why on earth would it not benefit us hackers? Roger Federer kinda buried this whole debate no?

Why stupid people always bring skill into a gear discussion?

QFT, obviously a 5.0 will trounce you with whatever. Although, chances are he'll also be using a modern light, stiff frame. Go figure.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely think that the newer stiff frames help people who have less ability. The newer frames are good for that, but for people who have decent technique,....I think some of the older frames are a better option, especially with poly strings. Flex and weight help to tolerate polys. My take only.

Dudes, don't get me wrong, I think older frames are fantastic, and there's nothing like the feel of a flexy heavy frame when just casually smacking the ball around. However, when the scoreboard is involved, those lighter, stiffer frames make life easier.

There's just no escaping the fact that you need to up the static weight and the SW of a softer stick to get some decent juice. That's all well and good, but by the third set of a long match, that extra weight is going to cost you.

BTW, I grew up playing the PS 85 and 95 then some heavy 6.1's. And some of my favorite sticks of all time have been the MG Prestige and Radical MP's and the TEC 315ltd. All weighted up for some extra power. If I could win matches with them, I'd still be using them because I have a tender shoulder.

Having said that, to each their own.

 

[lwto]

I use a 2004 Wilson Ncode Npro 98.. I try new racquets, different racquets, but none I have found have all the qualities it has.. plus I really like the 18x18 string bed... which I wonder, why they don't have any more.

 

[WisconsinPlayer]

Completely disagree. You'll never get an old school Prestige or any other super soft frame to play like an APD or a Pure Drive. If you could, why on earth would anyone buy a Babolat, for the buttery stiff feel?

Sure, marketing plays a role for the kids, but serious players that pay good money to play in leagues only care about results, and in my experience, those players overwhelmingly use modern rackets.



As you improve, use a stiffer racket and marvel at how much better they play. Again, why do pro's use modern stiff rackets? If it benefits them, why on earth would it not benefit us hackers? Roger Federer kinda buried this whole debate no?



QFT, obviously a 5.0 will trounce you with whatever. Although, chances are he'll also be using a modern light, stiff frame. Go figure.



Dudes, don't get me wrong, I think older frames are fantastic, and there's nothing like the feel of a flexy heavy frame when just casually smacking the ball around. However, when the scoreboard is involved, those lighter, stiffer frames make life easier.

There's just no escaping the fact that you need to up the static weight and the SW of a softer stick to get some decent juice. That's all well and good, but by the third set of a long match, that extra weight is going to cost you.

BTW, I grew up playing the PS 85 and 95 then some heavy 6.1's. And some of my favorite sticks of all time have been the MG Prestige and Radical MP's and the TEC 315ltd. All weighted up for some extra power. If I could win matches with them, I'd still be using them because I have a tender shoulder.

Having said that, to each their own.

What pros use stiff racquets? Most play with sticks under a 63 flex

 

[el sergento]

What pros use stiff racquets? Most play with sticks under a 63 flex

Yeah, but it's not really an apples to apples comparison is it. I mean, given how much faster and harder a pro hits the ball versus a club player, it'd be ridiculous to assume that a 63RA racket performs the same weather it's wielded by a pro or a club player.

Probably be more useful to look at what the women and juniors play with.

 

[Bobby Jr]

Completely disagree. You'll never get an old school Prestige or any other super soft frame to play like an APD or a Pure Drive. If you could, why on earth would anyone buy a Babolat, for the buttery stiff feel?

Doesn't really matter if you agree or not. It's not my opinion, it's basic physics.

The difference people sense is more like a lag in response, it's not a lack of inherent power.

As you improve, use a stiffer racket and marvel at how much better they play. Again, why do pro's use modern stiff rackets? If it benefits them, why on earth would it not benefit us hackers? Roger Federer kinda buried this whole debate no?

Most pro's don't use overly stiff racquets. If they do they soften them like Federer has by using gut mains. If you take that frame and string it with a full bed of RPM Blast you've gone miles from where his frame is feel-wise.

There's just no escaping the fact that you need to up the static weight and the SW of a softer stick to get some decent juice. That's all well and good, but by the third set of a long match, that extra weight is going to cost you.

You've reached the salient point. People can't handle heavier frames (or enjoy them as much) so companies make lighter ones which are easier to swing. Easier to swing = easier to swing fast or time properly = more power. The stiffness is a minuscule component of that. It just happens to be easier to produce frames which are stiffer using cheaper materials than it is to produce frames which are flexi and have a consistent response (not to mention lifespan).

Having said that, to each their own.

Agreed.

 

[UCSF2012]

A pro will destroy you with a wooden racket.
Equipment is 5% of the equation.
Travel back in time to 1985, and try to beat the #1 with your AeroPutz and your 3.5 skills.
Lendl will eat your AeroPud for a snack.

Wasn't there a study a while back? Pros using wooden rackets got crushed by college players.

 

[UCSF2012]

The Prince Triple Threat series work AMAZINGLY well with modern strings. The nCodes are very good too, but that might still be considered modern.

 

[WisconsinPlayer]

Yeah, but it's not really an apples to apples comparison is it. I mean, given how much faster and harder a pro hits the ball versus a club player, it'd be ridiculous to assume that a 63RA racket performs the same weather it's wielded by a pro or a club player.

Probably be more useful to look at what the women and juniors play with.

You still said that pros were using high stiffness racquets, which they, for the most part, do not Those who do I can guarantee use natural gut to soften it up.

 

[el sergento]

You've reached the salient point. People can't handle heavier frames (or enjoy them as much) so companies make lighter ones which are easier to swing. Easier to swing = easier to swing fast or time properly = more power. The stiffness is a minuscule component of that. It just happens to be easier to produce frames which are stiffer using cheaper materials than it is to produce frames which are flexi and have a consistent response (not to mention lifespan).

Hmm, that all sounds very reasonable and it's probably quite true on paper. However, if you asked most players to rate the power of a completely stock TEC 315 LTD vs that of a similarly specced but stiffer racket, like say an APD, I'd bet most players would find the Babolat considerably more powerful. The difference would probably be the most notable on serves.

 

[floydcouncil]

Why stupid people always bring skill into a gear discussion?

Why do stupid people think changing/modifying gear will better their game?

 

[WisconsinPlayer]

Why do stupid people think changing/modifying gear will better their game?

Because it can

 

[Subaruvich]

BTW, I grew up playing the PS 85 and 95 then some heavy 6.1's. And some of my favorite sticks of all time have been the MG Prestige and Radical MP's and the TEC 315ltd. All weighted up for some extra power. If I could win matches with them, I'd still be using them because I have a tender shoulder

So, which racquet are you winning matches with?

 

[WisconsinPlayer]

So, which racquet are you winning matches with?

He doesnt!

 

[Bobby Jr]

Hmm, that all sounds very reasonable and it's probably quite true on paper. However, if you asked most players to rate the power of a completely stock TEC 315 LTD vs that of a similarly specced but stiffer racket, like say an APD, I'd bet most players would find the Babolat considerably more powerful. The difference would probably be the most notable on serves.

A better comparison would be to hit with two frames of the same mold which are of different stiffnesses. The difference in power would be extremely little - far less than what could be achieved by fairly small changes in string tension or weight.

It's hard to do true side-by-side comparisons with fundamentally different racquets because too many other factors are in play.

 

[Alex78]

Haha, I've just read a Wilson ad featuring "Kei's secret weapon" (ad is in German, though).
Wilson claims that a "comprehensive study conducted by the the University of Minnesota School of Kinesiology has found that tennis players using Countervail have the following benefits:
- 30% less vibrations but yet, equal feel
- 10% less exhaustion, which means that players can hit 10% more balls ( )
- 40% more control when hitting balls near exhaustion"
In the footnotes, it says that "The study was conducted for Wilson by the University of Minnesota School of Kinesiology & Center for Clinical Movement Science. The study compares a "standard" (italics added by poster) Wilson racquet and a Wilson racquet with Countervail technology in order to analyze differences in vibration between the two products." (all translated by poster)

Now the biggest question converning this study (among others ) is what is that mysterious "standard" Wilson racquet. Is it last year's technology? Probably not, eh? But who will know what it is? And who will bother? And what does this mean for the claim the ad makes?

 

[el sergento]

So, which racquet are you winning matches with?

Pure Strikes these days.

 

[movdqa]

I'm still using my racquets from 2011/2012 and I may continue to use them for a while. If I were to go for something new, there are a few choices but I don't know that they'd be better without trying them. I happen to like XL frames which are hard to come by.

 

[1HBH-DownTheLine]

What pros use stiff racquets? Most play with sticks under a 63 flex

Man, all this time i thought the pros were playing with frames that had stiffness levels of 100

 

[markwillplay]

I am not talking about wood. I am talking about earlier graphite sticks love the pog mid and os, the graphite pro, several heads etc. I totally agree that lighter stiffer sticks make competing easier for people are have less developed games on the rec level. For me personally, I can compete fine at my level with the more flex heavier sticks. I think most people my age that have played for a while wold agree. The younger folks who grew up playing with newer sticks cant give an educated opinion because they have never p,ayed with those sticks and think they would not be able to win with them.

 

[el sergento]

I am not talking about wood. I am talking about earlier graphite sticks love the pog mid and os, the graphite pro, several heads etc. I totally agree that lighter stiffer sticks make competing easier for people are have less developed games on the rec level. For me personally, I can compete fine at my level with the more flex heavier sticks. I think most people my age that have played for a while wold agree. The younger folks who grew up playing with newer sticks cant give an educated opinion because they have never p,ayed with those sticks and think they would not be able to win with them.

Well, I have to disagree. I'm not necessarily old, but old enough to have grown up playing with some old Pro Staffs, the 85 and 95, and an old Prince Response with an integrated dampener (great frame btw). Those are great sticks, pure graphite buttery feeling. Bit would I take them to a match that counted? No.

If I was casually playing one set against a known opponent, sure, I'd do well with those stilll. But against the bunny rabbits that can run around all day, especially on clay, I'd struggle to put the ball away and eventually the 360gram Pro Staffs would start coughing up short balls.

Sure, the solution would be to hit the gym 3 times a week, get a super strong core and great cardio, then be prepared to hit 3-5 more balls per rally and develop a nice all-court game.… or, just get a lighter, stiffer frame.

You know what's funny though? In my experience, it's the younger guys (just check the rackaholic thread) that are willing to track down the GOAT soft old-school frames and give them a shot. All the older guys I play, and even lose to, use modern "tweeners".

 

[Power Player]

Agreed. I am not saying that new, lighter frames can't help people compete. I am saying that the older frames are still relevant. If you have a half swing or short swing then you will benefit from the lighter sticks. However, play someone who hits a heavy ball and tell me how that 11 oz stick does. The whole point of my thread was to say that the older sticks did not go out of style because they were not effective. A kid I played in my early 20s hit the hardest ball I have ever seen off the ground...and yes, crazy spin....with a prince pro 90. That's why I decided to pick one up.

I play heavy hitters all the time (sometimes on playsight courts, so I can actually put numbers behind my opinion) and the 11.5 ounce stick does more than fine. That was the entire point of my post.

 

[crazyups]

Well, I have to disagree. I'm not necessarily old, but old enough to have grown up playing with some old Pro Staffs, the 85 and 95, and an old Prince Response with an integrated dampener (great frame btw). Those are great sticks, pure graphite buttery feeling. Bit would I take them to a match that counted? No.

If I was casually playing one set against a known opponent, sure, I'd do well with those stilll. But against the bunny rabbits that can run around all day, especially on clay, I'd struggle to put the ball away and eventually the 360gram Pro Staffs would start coughing up short balls.

Sure, the solution would be to hit the gym 3 times a week, get a super strong core and great cardio, then be prepared to hit 3-5 more balls per rally and develop a nice all-court game.… or, just get a lighter, stiffer frame.

You know what's funny though? In my experience, it's the younger guys (just check the rackaholic thread) that are willing to track down the GOAT soft old-school frames and give them a shot. All the older guys I play, and even lose to, use modern "tweeners".

Older guys using tweeters makes sense because they are losing their physical advantages over time. I am somewhere in the middle in this discussion where I believe that there is a point where going to too low of a flex does create a significant power disadvantage unless you are on the pro tour. Say, below 61 flex if even. I haven't found anything I like below a 63 flex.

 

[Faris]

What pros use stiff racquets? Most play with sticks under a 63 flex

Fognini plays with a 69 flex. One of his racquets was tested by his official Davis Cup stringer.
Source: http://www.supertennis.tv/archivio-...bio-fognini-customizza-la-sua-pure-drive.html
Goffin plays with a stock Blade (66-67 range) as a commentator on Tennis TV mentioned. I'm sure someone on these boards has the info as I read it here too.
Sam Querry plays with an actual extended PA. There were pictures here on TW. Look for info on his string tension and you'll see it. I think @ProStringing shared them.

Bottomline: Not everyone on the tour is playing with a flex of 63 or less. I do agree though that majority pros do use softer racquets

 

[WisconsinPlayer]

Fognini plays with a 69 flex. One of his racquets was tested by his official Davis Cup stringer.
Source: http://www.supertennis.tv/archivio-...bio-fognini-customizza-la-sua-pure-drive.html
Goffin plays with a stock Blade (66-67 range) as a commentator on Tennis TV mentioned. I'm sure someone on these boards has the info as I read it here too.
Sam Querry plays with an actual extended PA. There were pictures here on TW. Look for info on his string tension and you'll see it. I think @ProStringing shared them.

Bottomline: Not everyone on the tour is playing with a flex of 63 or less.

As I said "Most play with sticks under 63 flex". Also Fognini may play with a 69 flex, but Babolat likes to deny that they create custom molds with lower stiffness for players so who knows

 

[Faris]

As I said "Most play with sticks under 63 flex". Also Fognini may play with a 69 flex, but Babolat likes to deny that they create custom molds with lower stiffness for players so who knows

You asked what pros play with stiffer racquets. Well I named three right off the bat. Pretty sure I may come across more if I research more. And yeah, true on babolat account. As for Fognini, it was put on RDC (pics are in the article I cited) so his is most definitely 69.

 

[WisconsinPlayer]

You asked what pros play with stiffer racquets. Well I named three right off the bat. Pretty sure I may come across more if I research more. And yeah, true on babolat account. As for Fognini, it was put on RDC (pics are in the article I cited) so his is most definitely 69.

Was just responding to your "Bottomline" And yes I know SOME players have higher stiffness, but the majority are under the 63 range. Querry most likely has a modified stick with low flex

 

[Readers]

Why do stupid people think changing/modifying gear will better their game?

Finding and using the right tool is key to success, and that's doesn't only apply t sports. Only stupid people don't think it would help.

 

[Faris]

Was just responding to your "Bottomline" And yes I know SOME players have higher stiffness, but the majority are under the 63 range. Querry most likely has a modified stick with low flex

Oh, well you didnt highlight my bottomline part so I took your response as a reply to my entire post. And my bottomline says that not everyone plays with a flex of 63 or less - I also did say that majority pros probably do use softer racquets. Querry's stick as I mentioned was put up here on the boards and flex was 69. His older APD+ was also put up here on boards and RDC gave similar numbers in one of the pictures. You'll have to dig it out, its on here somewhere on the boards

 

[WisconsinPlayer]

Oh, well you didnt highlight my bottomline part so I took your response as a reply to my entire post. And my bottomline says that not everyone plays with a flex of 63 or less - I also did say that majority pros probably do use softer racquets. Querry's stick as I mentioned was put up here on the boards and flex was 69. His older APD+ was also put up here on boards and RDC gave similar numbers in one of the pictures. You'll have to dig it out, its on here somewhere on the boards

Ah you edited your post I didnt notice, earlier you didnt mention that most do use softer frames.

 

[Faris]

Ah you edited your post I didnt notice, earlier you didnt mention that most do use softer frames.

No worries, yeah sorry I think adding that made it more clear that Im in agreement with you was just adding more to your point. On the phone so a little slow as i edit..

 

[n8dawg6]

69 is the best flex

 

[markwillplay]

Once again...and with feeling...I am not saying that modern six don't work. And I will concede the fact that 11.5 oz can hold up against heavy pace ok. What I am saying is that older six can absolutely work in today's game. Take the prince graphite pro 90 for example. I have played with the k90 and the graphite pro 90 and there is no doubt that the prince can be used. Lots of the sticks made in the 90s can work even though they are flexible. That's all. To say that they can't be used in the modern game is total bs....period.

 

[DJ-]

Fognini has tested stiff frames, but predominantly plays with ra64 pd's. I know someone who has 2 of his current pj's and both are 64.

Here's a reputable seller

https://www.prostocktennis.com/products/fabio-fognini-personal-babolat-pure-drive-painted-cortex-1

 

[Power Player]

Once again...and with feeling...I am not saying that modern six don't work. And I will concede the fact that 11.5 oz can hold up against heavy pace ok. What I am saying is that older six can absolutely work in today's game. Take the prince graphite pro 90 for example. I have played with the k90 and the graphite pro 90 and there is no doubt that the prince can be used. Lots of the sticks made in the 90s can work even though they are flexible. That's all. To say that they can't be used in the modern game is total bs....period.

I don't think anyone says that to be honest. But a rec player wielding a soft 90 is not doing themselves any favors.

 

[markwillplay]

Yes they do. I have seen it several times on this forum. And I would submit that some "rec" players who play a game that involves serve and volley and moving forward could make great use of the 90 (really 93) stick. I play better with it than I do lighter larger frames. But that is just me. Of course, I play well with my POG OS which is on the other end of the spectrum as far as head size. Have a friend who plays strong 4.5 and he uses the Chang long bodys.... I don't think he would be a 5.0 with a pure drive. Manufacturers need to sell to stay in business...and business 101 is to always have new and improved....like detergent...this one is in a new package and will keep your socks whiter....really, how white can white get.

 

[Power Player]

I get it. You don't think that Babolats are good. Many of us do. In fact I will have playsight stats to back up my opinion quite soon.

 

[markwillplay]

Damn bro, I did not say that. My thread was only about older sticks being good still. And if playsite tells you that you can hit a ball faster with a stiffer racquet, duh. More spin...uh...not more than an old pog 93 14 18 pattern... People here (many of them) love the microgel radicals....and they are...wait for it.....flexible. That stick is relevant, right? I serve harder with a pure drive...no doubt about it..but I do not play better with it and it bothered my arm. I guess I am the first person to say that??? I am saying this... if a rec player can be consistant with an older more flexible stick, stay injury free, those older sticks with foam in the handle (like my pogs, graphite pro, and the others) then I do not think that is a bad option or that you will not be able to compete and win with them. The opposite has been said on these forums many times. That is all I am saying. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Crocodile]

Pure Drive, Aero Drive, Head Extreme, Yonex Dr 98, Volkl V Sense 8, Wilson Burn is where the action is for most young players and some older guys as well.
The older ex elite players in the 40's may prefer the traditional heavier thin box beam frames but even these frames have evolved.
The best way to see for yourself is to hit with different generations of the same model. With the Dunlop 200 series from say the muscle weave era through to the M Fil, Aero Gel, 4d, biomimetic and the F 2.0 they have tried to produce more powerful and faster versions of the frame. They were trying to give these traditional racquet a modern twist. Volkl did the same thing with their 10 series.

 

[el sergento]

Yes they do. I have seen it several times on this forum. And I would submit that some "rec" players who play a game that involves serve and volley and moving forward could make great use of the 90 (really 93) stick.

That's another line of reasoning that also in no way gels with my on-court experience. The best S&V players I've ever faced played with at least 95's and probabaly closer to 98 or 100si sticks. Same goes with doubles players.

It's even more pronounced with the "doubles guys" because they tend to have limited mobility. Those dudes tend to use some pretty chunky sticks and volley like masters with them.

Again, if you can volley well with a 90, that's awesome. But if you make your money at the net, why not give yourself some extra real estate to play with?

Incidentally, one of the best guys I played in my last league season was also the only one I encountered using a 90. Strangely enough, he played like a human backboard, mostly spun his serves in and never came to net. Life is weird sometimes