Once again proven Henin's mental toughnes WAY overrated!

[federerfanatic]

I have been saying many times in the last 8 months that Justine Henin's so called "mental toughness" is ridiculously overrated and I am so sick of hearing what an incredably mentally tough player she is. Today proved it again. What a pathetic choke vs Serena in the Nasdaq final today but that is typical of her in fact. She lost 3 of 4 slam finals last year, all which she was favored to win. She lost 6-2, 5-2 leads in 2 matches last year, once losing, once going to a third set.

She is NOT, NOT this incredably mentally tough player she is potrayed in, if anything she is a choker like most of the other top women. Serena and Venus are the only truly mentally tough women players today. Please for once and all stop praising Henin undeservedly for her incredable mental toughness, she does NOT posses this, it is a myth.

 

[breakfast_of_champions]

actually its the entire wta. everyone who plays serenas chokes. i'm not sure whos choke was worse sharapovas or henins.

graf would have beaten serena 6-0, 6-1.


to think people pay to see that garbage.

 

[federerfanatic]

Henin's was worse since she actually played tennis for most of the match, then choked when she was about to win it and stopped playing tennis. Sharapova stepped on the court and did not play tennis, but atleast did not stop playing when she about to win the match.

 

[breakfast_of_champions]

heck this was to bad to be a choke. looked more like a fix.

 

[Breaker]

Henin is a much better clay courter, that's where Serena's biggest challenge will be, I smell revenge FO final '07 .

I agree, however, that Serena and Venus are the only mentally tough players on the WTA, though Venus isn't as talented as Serena.

 

[tennisjunkiela]

I have been saying many times in the last 8 months that Justine Henin's so called "mental toughness" is ridiculously overrated and I am so sick of hearing what an incredably mentally tough player she is. Today proved it again. What a pathetic choke vs Serena in the Nasdaq final today but that is typical of her in fact. She lost 3 of 4 slam finals last year, all which she was favored to win. She lost 6-2, 5-2 leads in 2 matches last year, once losing, once going to a third set.

She is NOT, NOT this incredably mentally tough player she is potrayed in, if anything she is a choker like most of the other top women. Serena and Venus are the only truly mentally tough women players today. Please for once and all stop praising Henin undeservedly for her incredable mental toughness, she does NOT posses this, it is a myth.

i am a serena fan but i believe in giving credit where credit is due.

justine henin has accomplished SO MUCH at a very young age of 24, in spite of the odds - mother died at a young age, recently divorced, estranged from her dad and entire family. so even though she didn't beat serena today, please give her her props!

btw, even though henin is #1 in the world (technically), she was the underdog in this match according to the betting wages. so she even though she didn't win today, remember - she wasn't expected to win!

and mad props to her for the power she generates from her small frame!

 

[ACE of Hearts]

She was given Serena all type of problems.I think Henin can hang with Serena Williams, stroke for stroke but she sucks mentally.She was the better player through 1 set and a half an she couldnt finish the match!The whole WTA just shakes in their boots when they see the Williams sisters.

 

[wildbill88AA]

A five time slam champion just hands the match to her #1 rival. Doublefaults on match point, netting second serves on breakpoint? How does that happen? One of the worst performances ever.

And to the biggest trashtalker on the tour, and in front of all her celebrity friends.

The wta is hopeless.

 

[Aykhan Mammadov]

I have been saying many times in the last 8 months that Justine Henin's so called "mental toughness" is ridiculously overrated and I am so sick of hearing what an incredably mentally tough player she is. Today proved it again. What a pathetic choke vs Serena in the Nasdaq final today but that is typical of her in fact. She lost 3 of 4 slam finals last year, all which she was favored to win. She lost 6-2, 5-2 leads in 2 matches last year, once losing, once going to a third set.

She is NOT, NOT this incredably mentally tough player she is potrayed in, if anything she is a choker like most of the other top women. Serena and Venus are the only truly mentally tough women players today. Please for once and all stop praising Henin undeservedly for her incredable mental toughness, she does NOT posses this, it is a myth.

I agree with the following in your thread: she is NOT tough mentally !!! As Roger Federer. But it was very CLEAR today, she is a few heads up as a tennis player than Serena, she simply plays better and nicer tennis. The only reason she lost today is she started TREMBLING. Unfortunately.

Henin is the the most talented woman player in the history I watched. With her weak health in comparison with Serena's Tyson's face and her man strength.

 

[Mick]

Serena Williams is amazing. I think younger players like Peer, Vaidisova, and Sharapova will have a chance against her in 4 or 5 years when she is over 30. Justine Henin is only a year younger than Serena Williams, so she is out of luck

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Henin did not choke. If anything Serena was choking or didn't warm up properly early on. She finally got her act together before she lost and proved she is the better player.

 

[federerfanatic]

A five time slam champion just hands the match to her #1 rival. Doublefaults on match point, netting second serves on breakpoint? How does that happen? One of the worst performances ever.

And to the biggest trashtalker on the tour, and in front of all her celebrity friends.

The wta is hopeless.

Totally agree with all you just said. Todays match is the best possible demonstration one could imagine of the hopeless state of the WTA. Credit to Serena though for taking full advantage of the the hopeless group of chokers that make up the WTA today, and racking up titles while being handed any match she is about to lose on a silver platter by her so called opponents.

Serena does not have to do anything outstanding to win events, just show up on court and not choke like everybody else does. Not that hard, but nobody else is doing it, so credit to her for being the only one to do so, and taking advantage of the extremely lucky situation she is in to be born when she was.

 

[ACE of Hearts]

Nadal freak, give me a break.Henin's pace was giving Serena problems, not to mention that Henin was matching winners to winners with Serena.Her backhand is very strong and she can pummel the forehand when she wants to!

 

[Mick]

my view on this mental toughness debate is, mental toughness will only help you beat players at your level. a 3.5 with great mental toughness will not beat a 4.0.

I think SW is a level above Henin based upon her firepower.

 

[ACE of Hearts]

Mick, there i disagree with u, yes Serena has power but so does Henin.She was beating Serena even on the baseline.Maybe Serena has an edge but not a big one.These players are very close to each other, the problem is that Serena has the mental edge, clearly this match should have been won by Henin today but it wasnt.Credit to Serena for not giving up.

 

[skip1969]

i wrote this during the aussie open run in january:

"all of the top girls are soooooo weak mentally. it's sad, really. none of them have any nerve at all. and while i am no williams fan, at least she comes from the old school . . . where being at or near the top meant that you had a killer instinct to crush your opponent when possible, or at least exposing even the slightest weakness. in that regard, serena must think, "well, i'm out of shape and don't have many matches under my belt . . . but these b*tches ain't SH*T!!" that alone must give her tremendous confidence that she can beat anyone out there, even if she's nowhere near where she was a few years ago."

i long for the days when the #1 (or the very top) girls knew how to CRUSH an opponent when they saw the slightest chink in their armor. players like evert and graf, navratilova . . . what must they think when they see the top girls today?? nobody on the tour has any guts whatsoever. except the williams brothers. too bad they've only been playing part time. even still, they put the other girls to shame.

oh, serena: the ghetto called. they'd like their earrings back.

 

[wildbill88AA]

i wrote this during the aussie open run in january:

"all of the top girls are soooooo weak mentally. it's sad, really. none of them have any nerve at all. and while i am no williams fan, at least she comes from the old school . . . where being at or near the top meant that you had a killer instinct to crush your opponent when possible, or at least exposing even the slightest weakness. in that regard, serena must think, "well, i'm out of shape and don't have many matches under my belt . . . but these b*tches ain't SH*T!!" that alone must give her tremendous confidence that she can beat anyone out there, even if she's nowhere near where she was a few years ago."

i long for the days when the #1 (or the very top) girls knew how to CRUSH an opponent when they saw the slightest chink in their armor. players like evert and graf, navratilova . . . what must they think when they see the top girls today?? nobody on the tour has any guts whatsoever. except the williams brothers. too bad they've only been playing part time. even still, they put the other girls to shame.

oh, serena: the ghetto called. they'd like their earrings back.

heck that wasn't a choke, justine looked to relaxed, i think it looked more like a tank.

i'm not so sure earlier genenerations were much better. you also had only 1 or 2 in each geneartion, that actually were mentally strong.

 

[NamRanger]

Serena wasn't losing in terms of firepower, Henin can just produce better angles and her shots have more weight because of the spin she puts on them. Henin although can't outmuscle Serena (when she usually can outmuscle everyone on the WTA), can outfinesse her (which she didn't do in the final).

 

[ACE of Hearts]

Go back and watch the match.She was winning some baseline rallies, i agree about the spins.Another thing, while Serena has alot of power, even during rallies, which gets tired and leaves the balls very short.

 

[Polaris]

I have been saying many times in the last 8 months that Justine Henin's so called "mental toughness" is ridiculously overrated and I am so sick of hearing what an incredably mentally tough player she is. Today proved it again. What a pathetic choke vs Serena in the Nasdaq final today but that is typical of her in fact. She lost 3 of 4 slam finals last year, all which she was favored to win. She lost 6-2, 5-2 leads in 2 matches last year, once losing, once going to a third set.

She is NOT, NOT this incredably mentally tough player she is potrayed in, if anything she is a choker like most of the other top women. Serena and Venus are the only truly mentally tough women players today. Please for once and all stop praising Henin undeservedly for her incredable mental toughness, she does NOT posses this, it is a myth.

If you drank Polyjuice Potion and came back as justineheninhoogenbandfan, would you say the same thing?

 

[drakulie]

Compared to the other players on the WTA, I would say she is mentally tough. However, it wouldn't take much to be "mentally tough" compared to the brainless zombies on the women's side.

 

[blinkinrogue]

i dont know why others have to troll on justine like this. im disappointed about her performance when she could have won it in straight sets, but folded, but after reading teh transcripts about the match and reading her answers, i am more of a fan of justine's than ever. she made no excuses and said that she will take all the positive from this (this is still her best performance in this tournament when you think about it). some people think she is not a great champion, but i disagree completely. here is a small girl, of a seemingly fragile stature, surviving and winning titles when she is surrounded by giants and ball-bashers... all this despite death in the family, family discord, and marital problems, sometimes when you think about it, she only has her coach on her side. still, i hope justine learns from this lesson, if she wants to win more titles and GS, she has to improve on certain aspects of her game, which admittedly is the mental side.

 

[Slazenger]

i dont know why others have to troll on justine like this. im disappointed about her performance when she could have won it in straight sets, but folded, but after reading teh transcripts about the match and reading her answers, i am more of a fan of justine's than ever. she made no excuses and said that she will take all the positive from this (this is still her best performance in this tournament when you think about it). some people think she is not a great champion, but i disagree completely. here is a small girl, of a seemingly fragile stature, surviving and winning titles when she is surrounded by giants and ball-bashers... all this despite death in the family, family discord, and marital problems, sometimes when you think about it, she only has her coach on her side. still, i hope justine learns from this lesson, if she wants to win more titles and GS, she has to improve on certain aspects of her game, which admittedly is the mental side.

It's really sad how they are getting on her case but I understand it. They are just upset she didn't take out Serena.

Justine IS a fighter. Her 2003 US Open Semi victory over Capriati forever proved that.
Allez Justine!

 

[tennis_hand]

Why do people like to say players are not mentally tough when they lose an easy game?

 

[teedub]

Christ people, you judge her so called 'mental toughness' by this one match? Justine's easily one of the more mentally tough players on the WTA, so she had a bad game and let Serena back in, every player gets nervous and has a couple of those untimely errors. But for Justine, this type of thing does not happen over and over again. Once Justine let her back in, Serena picked up her game completely and Justine fell off and regained it for moments. Anyways, you can't compare her mental toughness or lack thereof with players like Clijsters and others, cut her some slack, again this was one match.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

I still say Justine is a fine player...if she has one problem it must be one of character lapses--such as the infamous hand-raising incident against Serena and (what many believe to be) the apparent act of cowardice revealed when she was on her way to losing in the final against Mauresmo, instead of just accepting that she was outplayed.

Having said that, she's still in possession of more mental fortitude than some of the losers on the men's side, such as the moaning, no-Slam Murray, or the childish/never-learn-to-save-his-career (one Slam) Roddick.

 

[Pancho]

actually its the entire wta. everyone who plays serenas chokes. i'm not sure whos choke was worse sharapovas or henins.

graf would have beaten serena 6-0, 6-1.


to think people pay to see that garbage.

That is true because Serena is so tough - never count here out, she is always fighting even she plays lousy. She has been all the best players in the world - Henin, Sharapova, Davenport. She doesn't need to play the regular schedule. She and Venus can come out cold without any tournaments and yet win. She has done that with Australian Open. Venus has done that with Wimbledon. That's the greatness of Williams sisters - play ugly and crapy tennis and yet win - go figure! I still prefer to watch Federer - beautiful graceful vintage tennis.

 

[wildbill88AA]

Christ people, you judge her so called 'mental toughness' by this one match? Justine's easily one of the more mentally tough players on the WTA, so she had a bad game and let Serena back in, every player gets nervous and has a couple of those untimely errors. But for Justine, this type of thing does not happen over and over again. Once Justine let her back in, Serena picked up her game completely and Justine fell off and regained it for moments. Anyways, you can't compare her mental toughness or lack thereof with players like Clijsters and others, cut her some slack, again this was one match.

5 time slam champ, and #1 justine comes out and wins the first seven games of the match, on serenas homecourt and shes nervous? o come on, there were no nerves here. justine is a great frontrunner and better than serena in every phase of the game.

this was nothing but an old fashion tank, for whatever reason, who knows.

its a shame the public was denied such brillant performance. instead the message is you don't need to practice, and the wta is totally lame.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

justine is a great frontrunner and better than serena in every phase of the game.

If that was a statement of complete accuracy, logically, Justine would have a better track record against Serena.

 

[wildbill88AA]

If that was a statement of complete accuracy, logically, Justine would have a better track record against Serena.

hard to have a track record when they haven't played on hardcourts in about 5 years, and 5 slams ago for justine.

 

[vllockhart]

I don't think Henin choked. It's probably hard to imagine that even Serena could come back from a 6-0 set with that much fight left. Henin is a dogged opponent, but Serena is about 50 times more dogged than anyone on the entire tour. She does not know what "give up" means. That will win you matches that talent along can't win you.

Henin has won many, many matches with that grit. USO v Capriati comes to mind. But OTOH, she did have to cheat to beat Serena at the FO, so that doesn't say much about her character. I lost all respect and continue to have no respect for her since then.

 

[Slazenger]

hard to have a track record when they haven't played on hardcourts in about 5 years, and 5 slams ago for justine.

They did play 4yrs ago right after Justine won RG 2003 at WImbledon and Serena sent her home rather summarily.

 

[Slazenger]

Henin has won many, many matches with that grit. USO v Capriati comes to mind. But OTOH, she did have to cheat to beat Serena at the FO, so that doesn't say much about her character. I lost all respect and continue to have no respect for her since then.

:roll: She did not cheat. Pls get over it. That one point did not matter in the grand scheme of things. Justine beat her, end of story.
Justine is a very good player AND fighter. Serena is just better.

 

[federerfanatic]

Compared to the other players on the WTA, I would say she is mentally tough. However, it wouldn't take much to be "mentally tough" compared to the brainless zombies on the women's side.

Isnt that the truth.

 

[breakfast_of_champions]

I don't think Henin choked. It's probably hard to imagine that even Serena could come back from a 6-0 set with that much fight left. Henin is a dogged opponent, but Serena is about 50 times more dogged than anyone on the entire tour. She does not know what "give up" means. That will win you matches that talent along can't win you.

Henin has won many, many matches with that grit. USO v Capriati comes to mind. But OTOH, she did have to cheat to beat Serena at the FO, so that doesn't say much about her character. I lost all respect and continue to have no respect for her since then.

So those doublefaults on matchpoints, 2nd serve returns in the net on breakpoints were all forced? As was Henins game dropping down 4 levels?

Serena has fought back in the past, but she played terribly while henin was brillant. The only way serena comesback in Miaimi is if Justine lets her back into the match.

 

[wildbill88AA]

They did play 4yrs ago right after Justine won RG 2003 at WImbledon and Serena sent her home rather summarily.

right, and that meeting was not on hardcourts, yet was still nearly 4 years, and after justine has beaten serena the previous two times. not to mention playing well at wimbledon after winning the french, and her first slam victory, is difficult.

 

[Slazenger]

right, and that meeting was not on hardcourts, yet was still nearly 4 years, and after justine has beaten serena the previous two times. not to mention playing well at wimbledon after winning the french, and her first slam victory, is difficult.

The fact remains Serena has beaten Justine on clay, hardcourts and grass while Justine has only beaten Serena on clay.
5 slams later, the improved Justine still couldn't beat a lesser Serena than she faced 4yrs ago.

To say that Justine is a better player is being wilfully ignorant of the facts IMO.

Just wondering:
Who do you consider the better player: Serena or Sharapova?

 

[wildbill88AA]

The fact remains Serena has beaten Justine on clay, hardcourts and grass while Justine has only beaten Serena on clay.
5 slams later, the improved Justine still couldn't beat a lesser Serena than she faced 4yrs ago.

To say that Justine is a better player is being wilfully ignorant of the facts IMO.

Just wondering:
Who do you consider the better player: Serena or Sharapova?

i'm not that ignorant that i don't know a tank when i see one. pretty obvious justine has better shots, speed, and netgame, while serena commits error after error in a one dimensional game, against mentally weak competition.

justine 1-10 versus venus, too. so i guess by you logic venus is by far the better player today.

sharapova of 2004 was better than serena of 2004, and serena of 2007 is apparently better than sharapova of 2007. sharapova won't be top 10 if she doesn't get her act together.

any rational person would know you cant draw a conclusion from matches played 5 years ago, and that justine is a better player now than 5-6 years ago.

 

[theballboy]

i'm not that ignorant that i don't know a tank when i see one. pretty obvious justine has better shots, speed, and netgame, while serena commits error after error in a one dimensional game, against mentally weak competition.

sharapova of 2004 was better than serena of 2004, and serena of 2007 is apparently better than sharapova of 2007. sharapova won't be top 10 if she doesn't get her act together.

Sharapova spanked JH around in the USO last year. Serena, at her peak, would have demolished Sharapova that night.

 

[wildbill88AA]

Sharapova spanked JH around in the USO last year. Serena, at her peak, would have demolished Sharapova that night.

great, can i borrow your crystall ball?

seems serena was in that tournament and lost.

 

[theballboy]

great, can i borrow your crystall ball?

seems serena was in that tournament and lost.

You consider Serena in that tournament to be at her peak, or even close to it?

 

[Slazenger]

sharapova of 2004 was better than serena of 2004, and serena of 2007 is apparently better than sharapova of 2007. sharapova won't be top 10 if she doesn't get her act together.

any rational person would know you cant draw a conclusion from matches played 5 years ago, and that justine is a better player now than 5-6 years ago.

LOL, you did exactly what I thought you would when I edited my post and added the Pova question.

I asked you if Serena was a better player than Pova. You are telling me nonsense about 2004. Yet you say "any rational person can't draw conclusions from matches played 5yrs ago"

You couldn't just say that Serena is a better player than Sharapova and leave it at that. You had to add 2004 lol. What about 2005 Serena, Venus, or Clijsters? LOL!

You are a joke. Justine has improved her game but until she beats Serena this year, she is NOT the better player. It's really not hard to understand.
She has better looking groundstrokes and volleys, but tennis doesn't award style points.
Mentality cannot be divorced from your game. It is the MOST important part of your game. Serena uses this to trump Justine time and again. She did it at WImbly 03, where she just asserted herself from point 1 and didn't let Henin in. SHe did it yesterday when she worked her way into the match and refused to go away while Henin self-destructed.

And as for Sharapova... call me when she has a plan B LOL!

 

[wildbill88AA]

LOL, you did exactly what I thought you would when I edited my post and added the Pova question.

I asked you if Serena was a better player than Pova. You are telling me nonsense about 2004. Yet you say "any rational person can't draw conclusions from matches played 5yrs ago"

You couldn't just say that Serena is a better player than Sharapova and leave it at that. You had to add 2004 lol. What about 2005 Serena, Venus, or Clijsters? LOL!

You are a joke. Justine has improved her game but until she beats Serena this year, she is NOT the better player. It's really not hard to understand.
She has better looking groundstrokes and volleys, but tennis doesn't award style points.
Mentality cannot be divorced from your game. It is the MOST important part of your game. Serena uses this to trump Justine time and again. She did it at WImbly 03, where she just asserted herself from point 1 and didn't let Henin in. SHe did it yesterday when she worked her way into the match and refused to go away while Henin self-destructed.

And as for Sharapova... call me when she has a plan B LOL!

i never said mental could be divorced. i said justine tanked, not choked, the last two sets. understand? justine is not going to choke against an opponent she has beaten before, and currently dominating, and in a non slam tournament on a smaller stage like miami. justine has won on much bigger stages than miami, and against serena. justine also has no recent history of losing big leads in matches. justine looked as relaxed as could be before and during the match. and serena was pitiful. as usual serena just shows up, hits a few winners, makes numorous errors, and expects her opponent to fold.

not really sure what sharapova has to do with justine. funny how easy it was for you to find an excuse to rag on sharapova.

i think its pretty easy to see, you know absolutely nothing about tennis. you simply try to use some meaningless statistic but not others to support your point. this board is really nothing more than a tool for you to vent your frustation and spew your hate. if your game is above 3.5, i'd be very surprised.

 

[caulcano]

graf would have beaten serena 6-0, 6-1.

However much you & I would of like that to happen, in reality it would probably be 6-1, 6-1

 

[caulcano]

I agree with the following in your thread: she is NOT tough mentally !!! As Roger Federer. But it was very CLEAR today, she is a few heads up as a tennis player than Serena, she simply plays better and nicer tennis. The only reason she lost today is she started TREMBLING. Unfortunately.

Indeed, but I personally don't think Serena plays nicer tennis, better yes.

 

[Ripper]

I admit JH has a wierd personality, sometimes, but she's no choker.

 

[gugarafa]

damn right she is,she is turning into an ''amelie mauresmo'',to lose after a 6-0 thrashing of serena is just bull_____period!

 

[federerfanatic]

She turned into a Mauresmo? Who is to say Henin is mentally tougher then Mauresmo at this point anyway. Henin's choke in the Nasdaq final vs Serena was even worse then anything I have seen from Mauresmo in awhile.

Henin is the one who lost to Mauresmo in both the Wimbledon final, and year end Championships round robin after winning first set 6-2 both times IIRC, while when Mauresmo won the first set of the Australian Open final 6-1 Justine instead quit with a sore tummy.

 

[breakfast_of_champions]

She turned into a Mauresmo? Who is to say Henin is mentally tougher then Mauresmo at this point anyway. Henin's choke in the Nasdaq final vs Serena was even worse then anything I have seen from Mauresmo in awhile.

Henin is the one who lost to Mauresmo in both the Wimbledon final, and year end Championships round robin after winning first set 6-2 both times IIRC, while when Mauresmo won the first set of the Australian Open final 6-1 Justine instead quit with a sore tummy.

henin did eventually win the yearend champs, though. and henin was coming off an injury, marital problems too.

amelia just played great at wimby also.

serena was terrible in miami, period.

miami is either the worst choke in history(givin henins 5 slams, and #1 ranking), or henin just didn't want it. don't ask me to explain.

 

[THUNDERVOLLEY]

henin did eventually win the yearend champs, though. and henin was coming off an injury, marital problems too.

amelia just played great at wimby also.

serena was terrible in miami, period.

miami is either the worst choke in history(givin henins 5 slams, and #1 ranking), or henin just didn't want it. don't ask me to explain.

Please explain, because up to this point, i've seen no evidence to suggest anything other than what occured: JH had her butt handed to her by Serena due to a honest beating--not choking or some other theory.

From my POV, like the cause for her infamous, fake-assed bail-out against Mauresmo in the '06 AO final, JH is not invincible, hence the bail out when she realized she was doomed to lose no matter what. At the Sony Ericsson, she put everything she had in that 1st set against Serena, but as was the case with many of Serena's opponents at the event, "everything" was not enough, and cannot against that kind of skill.