Overheads in doubles

[mntlblok]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-FpqSUM9Bo&feature=youtu.be

My "LeeD"-inspired overhead video prior to my upcoming knee replacements.

Something I noticed watching the video - we've had a local infestation of pickleball courts, and those things are *noisy*! I've apparently already learnt to tune them out whilst playing, though.

Watched a bunch of online video tips for overheads before going out. One of them suggested the serve-type wind-up is unnecessary and probably not helpful. I kind of assumed that I *also* went directly to the "trophy position", but was surprised to see that I seem to almost use the wind-up as an aide in getting into position for the shot - sort of helping with my "rhythm".

As I noted in the "description" under the video, my wife suggested that using the term "jump" might not have been appropriate. :mrgreen:

 

[Steady Eddy]

Those were fairly difficult overheads IMO. They all needed to be hit in the air from behind the service line. I have trouble with those, but usually can consistently put away one that I hit from inside the service line.

Are you consistent from inside the service line with overheads? I only ask because I run into lots of players who mess up on the easiest putaways surprisingly often.

I think most of us recreational players don't need alot of technique on the shot. Just more practice. Many of us aren't able to judge trajectories quickly, so we don't move to the shot soon enough. I don't think there's a shortcut.

 

[onehandbh]

Nice overheads. Good scissor kicks.

My overheads have a much simpler motion. I just bring the racquet straight to the troph-ish position and get my non-hitting arm up also.

btw, how did your knees get messed up to the point of needing to be replaced?

 

[mntlblok]

Those were fairly difficult overheads IMO. They all needed to be hit in the air from behind the service line. I have trouble with those, but usually can consistently put away one that I hit from inside the service line.

Are you consistent from inside the service line with overheads? I only ask because I run into lots of players who mess up on the easiest putaways surprisingly often.

I think most of us recreational players don't need a lot of technique on the shot. Just more practice. Many of us aren't able to judge trajectories quickly, so we don't move to the shot soon enough. I don't think there's a shortcut.

Interesting points. My difficulty with hitting overheads from inside the service line is from the excess salivation that tends to occur and trying not to go "bwahahahahahaha" as I strike it. :mrgreen: Actually, if I have to move "forward" to hit an overhead, I *am* capable of blowing it, simply because I've never practiced that shot. I'll sometimes even go too far forward just so that I can then make that backward move that I'm comfortable with. I just don't have a means of controlling the downward trajectory angle with the moving-forward overhead and have a tendency to net it. Fortunately, it just doesn't come up all that often. I *have* had some luck using the old Pete Sampras "slam dunk" jumping technique for those, but the jumping parts don't seem to want to cooperate these days.

The technique aspect of the shot that *I* think most players fail to utilize is the racket drop. I've disagreed with Brent Abel on this issue. (A scary thing to do considering how great a net player he is). I see *so* many players fail to get their forearms past "vertical" and then try to muscle the overhead with no leverage to speak of. It *could* be that the timing of doing that is just too much to ask for with the average player, but I'd sure like to see them try.

Also, I'd *love* to see more players at least *try* to take a step or two back and try to take the shot out of the air. It's almost as if their "necks" won't work in that direction. I've seen the lobs come down and almost *hit* the net guy and he *still* won't try to take it out of the air.

No argument here about the need for practice. I was motivated to practice the overhead about 35 years ago when reading Vic Braden and hearing that, not only did most overheads not get put away, but that players *missed* the shot more often than they made it. I thought that *couldn't* be true with me, so I tested it - and learned that it *was* true! Great motivation for practice. And, to me, it's the most fun shot in tennis, and, therefore, worth practicing.

 

[mntlblok]

Nice overheads. Good scissor kicks.

My overheads have a much simpler motion. I just bring the racquet straight to the troph-ish position and get my non-hitting arm up also.

btw, how did your knees get messed up to the point of needing to be replaced?

Thanks. I'm sure there's more than one way of getting the racket back, but, like I said, I think my exaggerated move helps me with the rhythm of the shot. For an over-analyzer, rhythm is probably a really *good* thing.

The knees are just arthritis. Many other joints are just as bad, but I've found ways of working around most of the others. But, I do wonder if all those attempts at dunking a basketball might have had some bearing on the situation. Could dunk a volley ball, but the basketball was *just* out of reach. I think I might have been successful *once* with this really, grippy, rubbery ball, outside on an asphalt court - with a really long run up after fifty or so tries.

I don't know if you've seen Roy Emerson in recent years, but his knees are the worst I've ever seen. I've seen old newsreel video of him simply jumping in place over and over with his knees coming up to around chin level. Related??

 

[Rogael Naderer]

Really nice overheads, good racquet head speed, you put me and my team mates to shame in actually getting out and practicing those difficult ones.

Keep it up

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

The service windup could possibly make your preparation late on some quick, low-trajectory lobs; particularly on lob volleys in doubles. Best to get in the habit of getting both arms up early. (Do not pass GO, Do not collect $200).

 

[ARKustom93]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-FpqSUM9Bo&feature=youtu.be

My "LeeD"-inspired overhead video prior to my upcoming knee replacements.

Something I noticed watching the video - we've had a local infestation of pickleball courts, and those things are *noisy*! I've apparently already learnt to tune them out whilst playing, though.

Watched a bunch of online video tips for overheads before going out. One of them suggested the serve-type wind-up is unnecessary and probably not helpful. I kind of assumed that I *also* went directly to the "trophy position", but was surprised to see that I seem to almost use the wind-up as an aide in getting into position for the shot - sort of helping with my "rhythm".

As I noted in the "description" under the video, my wife suggested that using the term "jump" might not have been appropriate. :mrgreen:

Re movement: to get into position quicker, split-step at the other player's ball contact, and land in turned position(90deg) on your push-off foot, basically going into a skip step that changes over to the cross-over steps you're already using to get back. You'll find that you cover the distance to set-up much faster.

 

[onehandbh]

I used to play a lot of basketball, too. Was playing quite a bit until one day I landed on someone's foot and had a bad ankle injury. After that injury, I decided to start playing tennis again instead. Maybe it was a blessing in disguise.

The knees are just arthritis. Many other joints are just as bad, but I've found ways of working around most of the others. But, I do wonder if all those attempts at dunking a basketball might have had some bearing on the situation. Could dunk a volley ball, but the basketball was *just* out of reach. I think I might have been successful *once* with this really, grippy, rubbery ball, outside on an asphalt court - with a really long run up after fifty or so tries.

 

[mntlblok]

Really nice overheads, good racquet head speed, you put me and my team mates to shame in actually getting out and practicing those difficult ones.

Keep it up

Thank you! When was the last time you saw anybody actually practicing overheads (other than a few during warm-up for a match)? Same with droppers. I guess you have to just really *want* to get better at these shots. I *really* don't like getting angry, and missing shots makes me *really* angry - enough to motivate me to get out and practice some.

It's amazing, though, how many folks think yer nuts for doing it - *especially* if you've also set up a video camera. They're often the same ones who get disgusted when you beat the snot out of 'em. :mrgreen:

 

[mntlblok]

arms up

The service windup could possibly make your preparation late on some quick, low-trajectory lobs; particularly on lob volleys in doubles. Best to get in the habit of getting both arms up early. (Do not pass GO, Do not collect $200).

As I think about those kinds of shots - and the trouble they give me - I realize that I may also use that exaggerated wind-up in order to put less stress on my used-up old wrist.

If I have to try to quickly get the racket head back on the forehand side and then get it back forward, again, it hurts like hell and I don't hit very good shots. I'm kind of hoping that new knees may allow me to utilize more "turn" and less "arm" for getting myself into position to hit quick forehand volleys. Can almost feel those old menisci trying to rip if I start to pivot these days.

Come to think of it, it's almost becoming standard, now, for me to "sky-hook" some of those quick, low-trajectory jobs. Most unsatisfying.

I'm still not sure that I can make a good case for necessarily getting that left arm up for hitting overheads. Maybe "forward" some for balance. . .

 

[mntlblok]

Re movement: to get into position quicker, split-step at the other player's ball contact, and land in turned position(90deg) on your push-off foot, basically going into a skip step that changes over to the cross-over steps you're already using to get back. You'll find that you cover the distance to set-up much faster.

Excellent advice. But, it's real hard to tell when that ball machine is about to make contact. :mrgreen:

 

[mntlblok]

I used to play a lot of basketball, too. Was playing quite a bit until one day I landed on someone's foot and had a bad ankle injury. After that injury, I decided to start playing tennis again instead. Maybe it was a blessing in disguise.

My first bad ankle sprain occurred the same way - but on a tennis court. Partner tried to take my overhead. :mrgreen: 'Twas at the hard courts of Parris Island, SC.

 

[GuyClinch]

The technique aspect of the shot that *I* think most players fail to utilize is the racket drop. I've disagreed with Brent Abel on this issue. (A scary thing to do considering how great a net player he is). I see *so* many players fail to get their forearms past "vertical" and then try to muscle the overhead with no leverage to speak of. It *could* be that the timing of doing that is just too much to ask for with the average player, but I'd sure like to see them try.

Racquet drop is an issue for me - what do you think about here. In the video you said you think about really forcing that drop. Do you think about getting your forearm horizontal? Bring the elbow up? What's your thought process behind that. Obviously if you bring the elbow up the racquet will drop..but I am interested in your ideas on fixing bad racquet drops.

 

[mntlblok]

Racquet drop is an issue for me - what do you think about here. In the video you said you think about really forcing that drop. Do you think about getting your forearm horizontal? Bring the elbow up? What's your thought process behind that. Obviously if you bring the elbow up the racquet will drop..but I am interested in your ideas on fixing bad racquet drops.

I used to just think about getting my forearm parallel to the ground, as that seemed to be what would come closest to making me get my racket parallel with my spine (I believe that's what Brian Gordon spoke of doing with the serve).

But, I was watching a tournament match a couple of years ago and one of the players was taking his practice serves, and I noticed that he seemed to almost "snap" his racket head "down" in his back-swing. (This fellow has a *very* good serve, and had almost taken my shoulder out of its socket trying to return said serve playing him a few years earlier). I added that "snapping down with my wrist" thought to my serve backswing immediately and gained a *ton* of racket head speed. For me, that meant most of it went towards generating even more spin.

That "down snap" with the wrist seems to result in maybe some of that stretch-shortening-cycle stuff, which *then* results in some extra "lag" in the racket head behind the wrist, and finally to having the racket head ultimately "catch back up" in sort of a "rebound" manner, sort of like a whip.

Anecdotally, a couple of months later I suddenly developed golfer's elbow at another tournament. I fear that it may have helped me tear part of a tendon loose from the inside of my elbow, though that dern Scott Christensen's big serve didn't help any. It was a good six months or more healing up. I only use that move now if I'm really trying to crank on overhead or feel like the returners are abusing me too badly on my serve. The higher kick that that extra spin yields can come in mighty handy against such worms.

I see a *lot* of overheads struck with very little back-swing. Seems to me that *anything* that will draw the bowstring back further will send the arrow on its way faster.

 

[RajS]

My simpleton method is as follows, and is different from the serve:

1. Get into position (most important!) with the ball dropping on the hitting arm side (1 o'clock, maybe even a bit further to the right).

2. No need to contact at the highest point... hit at a comfortable height, make it easy on yourself. But you can jump if you can handle it and want the extra height/power. Sometimes you have to jump anyway if you are reaching for a high ball, and end up doing a scissor kick in the process.

3. Hit down, not up like the serve. But not into the net, lol!

It goes without saying that turning sideways, trying to catch the ball with the off hand, etc. are all good advice which I try to remember while practicing.

 

[Raul_SJ]

I think most of us recreational players don't need alot of technique on the shot. Just more practice. Many of us aren't able to judge trajectories quickly, so we don't move to the shot soon enough. I don't think there's a shortcut.

I hear coaches say that if you have a good serve motion, you should have a solid overhead.

But I think that is an oversimplification. I have a relatively good service motion but find the overheads quite difficult.

What I find challenging is judging the descent of the ball and making clean contact. (Even on my service motion, I use a low toss, and am not comfortable hitting with a high toss.)

So even when I have time to get sideways and set up properly, and use the left hand to track the ball, I will often not make clean contact and mishit the ball.

 

[mntlblok]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raul_SJ
I hear coaches say that if you have a good serve motion, you should have a solid overhead.

But I think that is an oversimplification. I have a relatively good service motion but find the overheads quite difficult.

What I find challenging is judging the descent of the ball and making clean contact. (Even on my service motion, I use a low toss, and am not comfortable hitting with a high toss.)

So even when I have time to get sideways and set up properly, and use the left hand to track the ball, I will often not make clean contact and mishit the ball.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Just keep thinking "16ft/sec²". :smile:

Took a look at yer serve video on YouTube. I'm thinking that there's some room for some added "turn". And, we need to talk about those foot faults. :smile:

I'll bet simply practicing more overheads is likely to get you more comfortable with the acceleration rate of that dropping ball off the lob.

 

[Raul_SJ]

Just keep thinking "16ft/sec²". :smile:

Took a look at yer serve video on YouTube. I'm thinking that there's some room for some added "turn". And, we need to talk about those foot faults. :smile:

Might be confusing me with someone else as I have never posted a serve video.

Although I do agree I need to practice overheads, as I never regularly practice them.

I recently took a group clinic and got to hit about 25 overheads in an hour...

Think I need to hit at least 50 overheads every day. But it's hard to find a willing partner to feed them to me.

 

[mntlblok]

Might be confusing me with someone else as I have never posted a serve video.

Although I do agree I need to practice overheads, as I never regularly practice them.

I recently took a group clinic and got to hit about 25 overheads in an hour...

Think I need to hit at least 50 overheads every day. But it's hard to find a willing partner to feed them to me.

Wow! I *did* confuse you. But, what are the odds of two guys posting consecutively with the names "Raul_SJ" and "RajS"???

I've mostly given up on finding folks to drill with. A small, battery operated ball machine served me well for over 15 years. 50 a day sounds ambitious. Once a week, or even once a month, I would think, would put you way ahead of the average tennis player. It would be worth it, though.

 

[mntlblok]

Wow! I *did* confuse you. But, what are the odds of two guys posting consecutively with the names "Raul_SJ" and "RajS"???

And now I see that Campbell, CA is only seven miles from San Jose. This is sounding fishier and fishier. :mrgreen:

 

[LeeD]

RajS is a very nice older Indian gentlemen who came by and played some doubles with me when Matt Lin showed up to clean my clock. Easy 55, lower back problems, really nice guy.
I can assume RajSJ is a younger, fitter, stronger player.

 

[mntlblok]

RajS is a very nice older Indian gentlemen who came by and played some doubles with me when Matt Lin showed up to clean my clock. Easy 55, lower back problems, really nice guy.
I can assume RajSJ is a younger, fitter, stronger player.

Dang! How much in-breeding *is* there on this forum?? Does *everybody* live out there on the coast??

 

[LeeD]

Worse....
Some younger Indian guy showed up last week, but didn't today.
President is Indian, showed up most of last summer, but went back to Delaware.
Deepak is Indian, huge topspin kicker and twist serves.

 

[RajS]

Took a look at yer serve video on YouTube. I'm thinking that there's some room for some added "turn". And, we need to talk about those foot faults. :smile:

I'll bet simply practicing more overheads is likely to get you more comfortable with the acceleration rate of that dropping ball off the lob.

Hi mntlblok - yeah, confusion abounds on this board! It's good I've met some people here!

Those serve videos need updating. I have changed things a lot since I shot those videos. Not that my serve is much faster or anything like that, and I don't even know how different it looks, but things feel much smoother now.

Also I have incorporated a lot of advice from knowledgeable folks here and vastly improved the "sting" of my forehand and backhand - they are faster and more consistent. I haven't felt the urge to make the videos... I think if I watch them I might jinx my strokes, lol!

@LeeD: Thanks for the kind words, LeeD... will try to make it to Berkeley sometime.

 

[snvplayer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-FpqSUM9Bo&feature=youtu.be

My "LeeD"-inspired overhead video prior to my upcoming knee replacements.

Something I noticed watching the video - we've had a local infestation of pickleball courts, and those things are *noisy*! I've apparently already learnt to tune them out whilst playing, though.

Watched a bunch of online video tips for overheads before going out. One of them suggested the serve-type wind-up is unnecessary and probably not helpful. I kind of assumed that I *also* went directly to the "trophy position", but was surprised to see that I seem to almost use the wind-up as an aide in getting into position for the shot - sort of helping with my "rhythm".

As I noted in the "description" under the video, my wife suggested that using the term "jump" might not have been appropriate. :mrgreen:

Is this Duke Club? I really miss playing on those Har-Tru courts!

 

[snvplayer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-FpqSUM9Bo&feature=youtu.be

My "LeeD"-inspired overhead video prior to my upcoming knee replacements.

Something I noticed watching the video - we've had a local infestation of pickleball courts, and those things are *noisy*! I've apparently already learnt to tune them out whilst playing, though.

Watched a bunch of online video tips for overheads before going out. One of them suggested the serve-type wind-up is unnecessary and probably not helpful. I kind of assumed that I *also* went directly to the "trophy position", but was surprised to see that I seem to almost use the wind-up as an aide in getting into position for the shot - sort of helping with my "rhythm".

As I noted in the "description" under the video, my wife suggested that using the term "jump" might not have been appropriate. :mrgreen:

One thing that I notice in your video is how your right arm is sort of flailing around the waist, and your left arm stays down until you hit the ball. This stance / body position would make it very difficult to back-pedal.

Moving backward while looking up is hard enough, your arms are pulling you down, and you need to worry about bringing your arms from way below to time the ball. No wonder you are feeling tired. And, I don't believe the backswing is really adding any more power.

If you see pros hitting overheads, their hitting arm is usually straight up - vertical forearm, racket by the ear, and the left arm is also up.

Even when they are backpedaling, or waiting for a high lob, their arms are a lot closer to their core.

 

[mntlblok]

One thing that I notice in your video is how your right arm is sort of flailing around the waist, and your left arm stays down until you hit the ball. This stance / body position would make it very difficult to back-pedal.

Moving backward while looking up is hard enough, your arms are pulling you down, and you need to worry about bringing your arms from way below to time the ball. No wonder you are feeling tired. And, I don't believe the backswing is really adding any more power.

If you see pros hitting overheads, their hitting arm is usually straight up - vertical forearm, racket by the ear, and the left arm is also up.

Even when they are backpedaling, or waiting for a high lob, their arms are a lot closer to their core.

Dang! I'll *never* be able to hit an overhead!

It's The Landings on Skidaway Island, Savannah, GA

 

[ARKustom93]

As I think about those kinds of shots - and the trouble they give me - I realize that I may also use that exaggerated wind-up in order to put less stress on my used-up old wrist.

If I have to try to quickly get the racket head back on the forehand side and then get it back forward, again, it hurts like hell and I don't hit very good shots. I'm kind of hoping that new knees may allow me to utilize more "turn" and less "arm" for getting myself into position to hit quick forehand volleys. Can almost feel those old menisci trying to rip if I start to pivot these days.

Come to think of it, it's almost becoming standard, now, for me to "sky-hook" some of those quick, low-trajectory jobs. Most unsatisfying.

I'm still not sure that I can make a good case for necessarily getting that left arm up for hitting overheads. Maybe "forward" some for balance. . .

Left arm up? Good, for two reasons. a) Drops your hitting shoulder, getting into the slot, left arm pulling down at the start of the up-swing creates a 'see saw' effect, hitting shoulder rising, resulting in more upward extension at contact.

b) Timing ISR with the upward swing. Took another look at the vid; your left arm positioning/movement(direction/timing) rotates your shoulder in prematurely. Combine that with being 'late to the party', and you end up with a totally vertical, plumb shoulder/arm/hand alignment at contact.
Just look at a couple of freeze frames at contact, and you'll see what I mean.

 

[mntlblok]

Left arm up? Good, for two reasons. a) Drops your hitting shoulder, getting into the slot, left arm pulling down at the start of the up-swing creates a 'see saw' effect, hitting shoulder rising, resulting in more upward extension at contact.

b) Timing ISR with the upward swing. Took another look at the vid; your left arm positioning/movement(direction/timing) rotates your shoulder in prematurely. Combine that with being 'late to the party', and you end up with a totally vertical, plumb shoulder/arm/hand alignment at contact.
Just look at a couple of freeze frames at contact, and you'll see what I mean.

Yer probably right about the off arm being up being a better way to go.

And, I *did* notice the "in-line" thing. There *was* a point in the video where I said I'd try "pronating" - which I don't ordinarily do - and I may have popped it a tad harder, but that move also tends to hurt my wrist more. Guess I'm just gonna have to make do with the in line thing. At least I catch the ball at the highest point possible, giving me maybe a bit more angle into the court. Good catch.

 

[ARKustom93]

One more thing re your balance at setup: noticed that on the deeper OH's you have a tremendous amount of 'run-out' distance after hitting, due to your back(setting) foot stepping right underneath your body center, preventing you from absorbing and converting the horizontal momentum created by moving into position into loading the back leg for the hit. Stepping out back past your body center by about two feet will allow you to push forward/up at the ball, and significantly shorten recovery which, in the real scenario, means you back up at net, instead of behind the BL when that ball comes back at you ...

 

[mntlblok]

One more thing re your balance at setup: noticed that on the deeper OH's you have a tremendous amount of 'run-out' distance after hitting, due to your back(setting) foot stepping right underneath your body center, preventing you from absorbing and converting the horizontal momentum created by moving into position into loading the back leg for the hit. Stepping out back past your body center by about two feet will allow you to push forward/up at the ball, and significantly shorten recovery which, in the real scenario, means you back up at net, instead of behind the BL when that ball comes back at you ...

You overestimate my ability to move. Another two feet?? I'm just trying to keep from falling down on those. But, thanks, and I do see yer point.

 

[ARKustom93]

You overestimate my ability to move. Another two feet?? I'm just trying to keep from falling down on those. But, thanks, and I do see yer point.

Sorry, keep forgetting that you're old and decrepit ...

BTW, ... gonna be down this way, any time soon?

 

[mntlblok]

Sorry, keep forgetting that you're old and decrepit ...

BTW, ... gonna be down this way, any time soon?

Planning to dive the bridge the 12th through the 14th or 15th. Should I pack the racket or did you have enough of being Santorized? :mrgreen:

 

[ARKustom93]

Planning to dive the bridge the 12th through the 14th or 15th. Should I pack the racket or did you have enough of being Santorized? :mrgreen:

Bring it ... Might join you at the bridge(if I can find my Lavacore top)

 

[comeback]

Wow! I *did* confuse you. But, what are the odds of two guys posting consecutively with the names "Raul_SJ" and "RajS"???

I've mostly given up on finding folks to drill with. A small, battery operated ball machine served me well for over 15 years. 50 a day sounds ambitious. Once a week, or even once a month, I would think, would put you way ahead of the average tennis player. It would be worth it, though. [/QUO
Nice overhead practice and movement Mntblok..I remember the Bryan twins doing a similar "moving back" overhead practice here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqAuJtN3ezI&list=PLBvpnK95FA9uwcJ5bl9341Te6iGLedB55&index=19
I used to have a decent overhead when a was a S&V player but it's not a good shot for me anymore as i got older..i now have started to run back sideways; let it bounce and hit a big forehand which works better sometimes...But overheads don't happen much anymore as players don't come in as much.

 

[snvplayer]

Dang! I'll *never* be able to hit an overhead!

It's The Landings on Skidaway Island, Savannah, GA

I sort of assumed Duke because of the Duke sweatshirt worn by another person in video..

I think what we are suggesting is to keep your arms a little bit closer to your core, and "hand" above your waist to keep the racket up. This would also make moving back easier.

 

[mntlblok]

I sort of assumed Duke because of the Duke sweatshirt worn by another person in video..

I think what we are suggesting is to keep your arms a little bit closer to your core, and "hand" above your waist to keep the racket up. This would also make moving back easier.

Steve *did* attend grad school at Duke - a long time ago.

I don't really have a "core". It's mostly gut these days. We'll see what happens when (if?) I can move, again. I'm thinkin that waving the racket around like that maybe helps with getting a little momentum going. Also pretty sure it helps me with my "timing". When I *have* tried going back with the racket in the trophy position, I find that I have to keep sort of making little loops with my hand until it's finally time to swing. I've become a big fan of loops for rhythm.

 

[toly]

mntlblock, what can you say about Bouchard overhead?

http://youtu.be/EJN5dGJoMhY

 

[Raul_SJ]

Left arm up? Good, for two reasons. a) Drops your hitting shoulder, getting into the slot, left arm pulling down at the start of the up-swing creates a 'see saw' effect, hitting shoulder rising, resulting in more upward extension at contact.

b) Timing ISR with the upward swing. Took another look at the vid; your left arm positioning/movement(direction/timing) rotates your shoulder in prematurely. Combine that with being 'late to the party', and you end up with a totally vertical, plumb shoulder/arm/hand alignment at contact.
Just look at a couple of freeze frames at contact, and you'll see what I mean.

Also, I'm not sure how one could easily track the ball without that left arm going up early...

In fact, I would say tracking is more important than "see saw" effect/upward extension mentioned above, as I don't think power generation is critical for overheads which are usually hit much closer to the net than serves.

 

[mntlblok]

Bring it ... Might join you at the bridge(if I can find my Lavacore top)

Is that "bring it", as in bring the racket, or *bring it* and we'll just see about that.? :mrgreen:

 

[mntlblok]

[/QUO
I remember the Bryan twins doing a similar "moving back" overhead practice here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqAuJtN3ezI&list=PLBvpnK95FA9uwcJ5bl9341Te6iGLedB55&index=19

Excellent!! Note at the 7:20 mark that he actually does *not* stick the racket up into the trophy position for his journey backwards. I'm thinking that I'm seeing some of that same sort of "rhythm" that I've talked about.

Also, when he's going back for the very high lob that he's planning to let bounce, he backpedals - rather than doing the sideways crossover steps. I see no problem with this.

Liked Brad's comment that the overhead is the most missed shot in club tennis. Practice the dern thing!!

 

[mntlblok]

mntlblock, what can you say about Bouchard overhead?

http://youtu.be/EJN5dGJoMhY

I'm drooling over it - on a number of different levels. :mrgreen:

I suppose she could have tucked in her shirt in the cause of decency.

I notice that her left foot comes down at about the same depth that her right foot left the ground. Leads me to believe that my "backward" launch is an idiosyncrasy that probably sucks up some power - basically what the Boynton Beach pro was telling me. As I've said, moving "forward", I'm kind of lost on the ability to control the shot's trajectory. Something to experiment with some day.

Interestingly, we've had one middle aged lady in our club for the past couple of years who hits an amazingly athletic, scissor kicking overhead. Just *love* watching her hit it and love playing against her. She'd have no qualms about taking me out with the shot, either.

There's something about that sort of "body control" that seems to be at least a "little" unusual, so I asked her recently if she'd ever done any springboard diving. Turns out she had. I asked because I've done a bit, myself. . .

 

[mntlblok]

Also, I'm not sure how one could easily track the ball without that left arm going up early...

In fact, I would say tracking is more important than "see saw" effect/upward extension mentioned above, as I don't think power generation is critical for overheads which are usually hit much closer to the net than serves.

Interesting. I guess I've "heard" about tracking the ball with the left arm, but have never really understood it. I guess maybe if I had a gun sight built into one of my fingers, but I really think that I only track the ball with my eyeballs. And, the more I think about it, I'm not sure how well I'd be able to move backwards if I had that arm up there early. . .

I still remember being blown away the first time I saw John Yandell's lineup of several different pro's, all with their left arms pointing *hard* to the right (all with their fingers splayed, too), apparently as an aid to the unit turn (maybe for some other reasons, too??) for the forehand, but I'm still not "feeling it" for the overhead other than for maybe helping to get the left shoulder up and the right shoulder down. I'd *love* to get the hang of learning to do it to help block out the sun, but find that it seems to just as often block out the *ball*, too, when I try it for that purpose. I *hate* the sun.

 

[Raul_SJ]

Interesting. I guess I've "heard" about tracking the ball with the left arm, but have never really understood it.

A common drill the coach has us do is to set up for an overhead, but instead of hitting it, simply catch the ball with the outstretched left hand.

Doing this a few times helps me avoid mishitting the overhead.

 

[mntlblok]

Interesting video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Yqf3uU7KzM&list=PLBvpnK95FA9uwcJ5bl9341Te6iGLedB55&index=20

Found this video entertaining, as the players are quite talented, but still miss the snot out of a high percentage of their overheads. :mrgreen:

 

[toly]

mntlblock, I like your explanations (posts 43,44) very much, thanks!!!

 

[mntlblok]

mntlblock, I like your explanations (posts 43,44) very much, thanks!!!

Great! Just hope my opinions ain't too far off the mark. . .

 

[ARKustom93]

Is that "bring it", as in bring the racket, or *bring it* and we'll just see about that.? :mrgreen:

That's what you get, wrapping two questions into one sentence ...