Pancho Gonzales 1995 New York Times article. Opinions on all the greats

[GameSampras]

Gonzales's views of other players as of 1995

Pete Sampras: "I rate him potentially with anybody, including Lew Hoad."
Andre Agassi: "He was a natural but when he turned pro at 15, he couldn't cover the court."

Björn Borg: "He was tough. I played him when I was 42 and he was 18... and beat him 6–1, 6–1. My best game against his best game, he would be one of the toughest. One of the all-time greats." Note that either Gonzales's memory was faulty or The Times had a typographical error: Borg, who was born in 1956, would have been 14 when Gonzales was 42; conversely, Gonzales would have been 46 when Borg was 18.

Jimmy Connors: "My wide serve would've been effective against his two-handed return."

All quotations are from a New York Times article of 12 March 1995. Gonzales died four months later of cancer in Las Vegas.

John McEnroe: "He's right up there behind Hoad, except that he didn't hit the ball quite as hard."

Rod Laver: "At his best, I think I might've had too much court coverage for him. He was a great athlete, but he didn't have the thinking part."

Ken Rosewall: "With the exception of me and Frank Sedgman, he could handle everybody else... but he had a forehand weakness and a serve weakness."
Lew Hoad: "He was the only guy who, if I was playing my best tennis, could still beat me. I think his game was the best game ever. Better than mine."
Don Budge: "Even now, I think he had the best backhand ever developed... His ball off the backhand was the heaviest ball I can remember."

 

[Moose Malloy]

"He was tough. I played him when I was 42 and he was 18... and beat him 6–1, 6–1. My best game against his best game, he would be one of the toughest. One of the all-time greats." Note that either Gonzales's memory was faulty or The Times had a typographical error: Borg, who was born in 1956, would have been 14 when Gonzales was 42; conversely, Gonzales would have been 46 when Borg was 18.

regardless, none of the hardcore historians here (urban, andrewtas, jeffrey, carlo, etc) can find any record of a match between these 2 by that score. maybe it was in practice?

 

[adidasman]

Rod Laver: "At his best, I think I might've had too much court coverage for him. He was a great athlete, but he didn't have the thinking part." Rod Laver "didn't have the thinking part"? I'd have to say that Laver's results belie that statement.

 

[Moose Malloy]

Rod Laver: "At his best, I think I might've had too much court coverage for him. He was a great athlete, but he didn't have the thinking part." Rod Laver "didn't have the thinking part"? I'd have to say that Laver's results belie that statement.

You need to have some context. Laver was a supreme shotmaker(winners from all areas of the court), which was sort of rare for that time. I have many old books/articles where some players/writers are amazed that someone can play such a 'high risk' game & be so successful. Ellsworth Vines says something similar about Laver in his book.

And Laver himself is quoted as saying, "when I'm behind, I hit harder. I'd rather lose going for it, than wait for the other guy to miss."

Laver was obviously a great thinker, but when I watch his matches, the 2 recent players that he most reminds me of stylistically are Leconte & Korda, 2 low percentage players.

Shotmakers don't always get as much credit as being thinkers as those with less flashy games(like Rosewall)

 

[CyBorg]

It's also useful to keep in mind that Gonzales was a bit pompous and hardly objective.

I'm pretty sure that Borg match happened. Now I'm struggling to think of the book that mentioned it. I think Pancho got the score wrong. Borg was definitely younger than 18. It was some kind of exo.

 

[GameSampras]

Didnt his game remind u of a sampras' just a bit?

 

[Borgforever]

regardless, none of the hardcore historians here (urban, andrewtas, jeffrey, carlo, etc) can find any record of a match between these 2 by that score. maybe it was in practice?

Björn was defeated by Pancho at a regular indoor tourney in NY, December 1972 with the score 6-1, 6-1. Borg was 16 -- Pancho 44...

 

[CyBorg]

There seems to be a lack of results for Borg accounting for 1972 and early 1973.

 

[Borgforever]

You want me to post the results you mention CyB?

 

[CyBorg]

Oh, PLEEEEZ.

 

[crash1929]

Pretty straight talk. I love it. lol.

 

[mctennis]

Pancho was such a great player. I always enjoyed watching him play. A lot of thinking when on in that era not just staying at the baseline and banging away. Todays game is so boring at times. Like two hours of hitting practice.

 

[Carlo Giovanni Colussi]

regardless, none of the hardcore historians here (urban, andrewtas, jeffrey, carlo, etc) can find any record of a match between these 2 by that score. maybe it was in practice?

Hi Moose,

Borgforever wrote somewhere many Borg's results (but I don't remember where).

Here are Borg's results in 1972 (in particular the Gonzales-Borg meeting, if I remember well Gonzales faced (and probably lost to) Pasarell in the final) listed by my French colleague Jean-Marie including 2 closed tournaments and 4 junior tournaments results :

1972 :

Miami Sunshine Cup (Floride, USA) janvier :
Kyoichi Sakamoto (JPN) + 6-2 7-6

Miami Aventura International (Floride, USA) janvier :
1T : Belus Prajoux (CHI) + 2-6 7-5 6-2
DF: Jose Higueras (ESP) + 6-0 6-4
F : Uli Pinner (GER) + 6-3 6-1

Flagler Beach Florida International Championships (Floride, USA) janvier :
DF: Gérard Toulon (FRA) + 6-1 6-3
F : Louis Borfiga (MON) + 6-0 2-6 6-2

Umea Swedish National Indoor Tennis Championships (Suède) Carpet, février :
1T : Robert Stig (SWE) + 6-8 6-3 6-2
2T : Christer Holm (SWE) .. Forfait
QF: Birger Andersson (SWE) + 7-5 6-0
DF: Hakan Zahr (SWE) - 5-7 4-6 7-5 6-1 6-1

Copenhague Scandinavian Indoor Open (Danemark) Carpet, février :
1T : Jon-Erik Ross (NOR) + 6-1 6-3
2T : Kurt Nielsen (DEN) + 6-4 6-1
QF: Jan Kukal (CZE) + 15-17 6-4 6-4
DF: Jiri Hrebec (CZE) - 7-9 6-4 6-2

Madrid Melia Trophy (Espagne) Clay, 10-16 avril :
1T : Jan-Erik Lundquist (SWE) + 6-4 6-2
2T : Antonio Zugarelli (ITA) + 7-6 6-3
3T : Jan Kodes (CZE) - 6-3 6-2

Norwich Norfolk Championships (Angleterre) 25 avril- 1 mai :
1T : Mark Farrell (GBR) + 6-4 6-2
2T : Ross McGhie (NZL) + 8-6 6-3
QF: Philip Siviter (GBR) + 6-2 7-5
DF: Jean-François Caujolle (FRA) - 6-1 6-2

Coupe Davis à Bastad (Suède) contre la Nouvelle-Zélande Clay, 5-7 mai :
1T : Onny Parun (NZL) + 4-6 3-6 6-3 6-4 6-4
1T : Jeff Simpson (NZL) + 9-7 6-4 5-7 6-1

Coupe Davis à Prague contre la Tchécoslovaquie Clay,19-21 mai :
2T : Jan Kodes (CZE) - 6-2 6-3 7-5
2T : Frantisek Pala (CZE) - 6-4 6-4 6-4

Beckenham Kent Tennis Championships (Angleterre) Grass, 12-17 juin :
1T : John Feaver (GBR) - 1-6 6-4 6-4

Eastbourne Rothmans South of England (Angleterre) Grass, 19-24 juin :
1T : Andres Gimeno (ESP) - 6-4 7-5

Wimbledon All England Junior Championships (Angleterre) Grass, 26 juin- 8 juillet :
1T : Bojan Toncic (YUG) + 6-0 6-2
2T : Russell Simpson (NZL) + 6-4 6-4
QF: Belus Prajoux (CHI) + 6-4 5-7 6-4
DF: Carlo Borea (ITA) + 6-4 6-4
F : Christopher Mottram (GBR) + 6-3 4-6 7-5

Bastad Swedish Open Championships (Suède) Clay, 10-16 juillet :
1T : Jun Kamiwazumi (JPN) + 6-2 7-6
2T : Vladimir Zednik (CZE) + 7-6 6-2
QF: Ilie Nastase (ROU) - 6-2 7-6 6-3

Bastad Champion Cup (Suède) 27-30 juillet :
RR : Antonio Munoz (ESP) + 6-4 5-7 6-4
RR : Ove Bengtson (SWE) + 6-4 5-7 6-3
RR : Andres Gimeno (ESP) - 7-5 6-1 6-3

Vasteras Swedish National Outdoor Tennis Championships (Suède) août :
1T : Christer Ericsson (SWE) + 7-5 6-1
2T : Mats Lilja (SWE) + 6-1 6-1
QF: Leif Johansson (SWE) + 6-1 6-2
DF: Kjell Johansson (SWE) + 6-2 6-3 6-2
F : Ove Bengtson (SWE) + 6-4 6-1 6-4

Forest Hills U.S. Open Championships (New York, USA) Grass, 30 août- 10 septembre :
TP : Roy Emerson (AUS) - 7-5 6-7 6-4 6-4

Sacramento Central California Championships (Californie, USA) Hard, 11-17 septembre :
1T : Raul Ramirez (MEX) + 6-2 4-6 7-6
2T : Andrew Pattison (USA) - 6-4 7-5

Los Angeles Pacific Southwest Championships (Californie, USA) Hard, 18-24 septembre :
1T : Fernando Gentil (BRA) + 6-4 6-3
2T : Robert Kreiss (USA) + 7-5 7-6
3T : Milan Holecek (CZE) - 6-3 4-6 6-2

San Francisco Albany Pacific Coast Classic (Californie, USA) Carpet, 25 septembre- 1 octobre :
1T : Peter Campbell (AUS) .. Forfait
2T : Rick Fischer (USA) .. Forfait
3T : Roscoe Tanner (USA) - 6-3 6-3

Göteborg Scandinavian Championships (Suède) Carpet, 30 octobre- 5 novembre :
1T : Charlie Pasarell (USA) + 7-6 6-4
2T : Mark Cox (GBR) - 6-3 6-7 6-4

Stockholm Open Championships (Suède) Hard (i), 6-12 novembre :
1T : Pekka Saila (FIN) + 7-5 7-5
2T : Andres Gimeno (ESP) + 6-2 6-3
3T : Andrew Pattison (USA) - 4-6 6-2 6-3

Coupe du Roi novembre :
1T : Peter Szoke (HUN) + 6-2 6-8 6-4
1T : Szabolcs Baranyi (HUN) - 6-3 2-6 7-5

Copenhague Slazenger Cup (Danemark) Carpet, novembre :
1T : Christer Ericsson (SWE) + 7-6 6-4
DF: Ulrich Jörgen (DEN) + 6-4 7-6
F : Jan Leschly (DEN) + 6-3 7-6

New York Clean Air Classic (New York, USA) Carpet, 6-10 décembre :
1T : Pat Dupre (USA) + 6-3 6-3
2T : Pancho Gonzales (USA) - 6-1 6-1

Kingston Rothmans International (Jamaïque) Hard, 13-17 décembre :
1T : Compton Russell (JAM) + 6-4 6-3
QF: Clark Graebner (USA) - 7-6 6-4

Miami Orange Bowl International Junior (Floride, USA) 25-30 décembre :
1T : Javier Cartin (CRI) + 6-1 6-1
2T : Steve Pompan (CHI) + 6-0 6-0
3T : Akisumi Mashidori (JPN) + 6-2 7-6
QF: Billy Martin (USA) + 7-6 5-7 6-4
DF: Belus Prajoux (CHI) + 6-3 4-6 6-4
F : Vitas Gerulaitis (USA) + 7-5 6-2 6-1

Statistiques 1972 : 6 tournois remportés ( 2 tournois nationaux et 4 tournois junior) 50 victoires, 19 défaites.

 

[AndrewD]

And Laver himself is quoted as saying, "when I'm behind, I hit harder. I'd rather lose going for it, than wait for the other guy to miss."

Laver was obviously a great thinker, but when I watch his matches, the 2 recent players that he most reminds me of stylistically are Leconte & Korda, 2 low percentage players.

That needs to be prefaced very, very clearly with the added information that when Laver started to hit harder - as opposed to Korda and Leconte (especially Leconte)- he hit with more and more topspin. Charlie Hollis, his original coach, taught him that the best way to avoid tightness/nerves was to hit out BUT, he had to add topspin to give himself clearance over the net. That's why, stylistically, he looks nothing at all like either Korda or Leconte - two guys who had no idea what it meant to give themselves margin for error.

It's also the chief reason why Laver wasn't a low percentage player. The other was that Laver, unlike Korda and Leconte, was touched by that extra bit of genius that turned the exceptionally low percentage into a routine shot.

As for Pancho's opinions, they don't carry so much weight for me since hearing quite contrary views from a few of the Aussies who played against him.

 

[CyBorg]

Thanks for the stats, Carlo.

 

[Borgforever]

Thanks from me too Carlo -- excellent list of Borg's 1972. Where did you get your hands on this info?

It matches mine almost perfectly. I'll post this and early 1973 on the AKAI thread in a few hours plus some other stuff...

 

[CyBorg]

The 1973 stuff would be great as well - I think I'm missing some.

 

[Carlo Giovanni Colussi]

The 1973 stuff would be great as well - I think I'm missing some.

Here is Jean-Marie (a French colleague who is about to finish Connors's record)'s work about 1973 :

1973 including three junior tourneys:

Miami Aventura International (Floride, USA) janvier :
1T : Eduardo Marulanda (COL) + 6-2 6-2
2T : Hans-Peter Kandler (GER) + 6-2 6-3
QF: Victor Pecci (PAR) + 6-4 6-2
DF: Salvador Cabeza (ESP) + 6-4 6-0
F : Bernard Mitton (RSA) - 6-2 6-2

Saint-Domingue Junior Championships (République Dominicaine) janvier :
1T : Zarko Buric (YUG) + 7-5 6-4
DF: Ernie Ewert (AUS) + 4-6 7-6 7-5
F : Victor Pecci (PAR) + 6-4 2-6 6-1

San José Junior Championships (Costa Rica) janvier :
1T : Salvador Cabeza (ESP) + 6-4 6-3
F : Victor Pecci (PAR) + 7-6 5-7 6-1

Helsinki Scandinavian Indoor Open (Finlande) Carpet, 1-4 février :
1T : Jan Pisecky (CZE) + 7-6 7-5
DF: Rolf Norberg (SWE) + 6-3 6-0
F : Jacek Niedzwiedski (POL) + 6-3 6-7 6-3 6-4

Stockholm Bolltex Cup (Suède) Hard (i), février :
1T : Stephen Warboys (GBR) + 7-6 5-7 6-4
DF: Jan Zabrodsky (SWE) + 6-2 6-2
F : Kjell Johansson (SWE) - 5-7 6-3 6-4

Stockholm Swedish National Indoor Tennis Championships (Suède) Hard (i) mars :
1T : Christer Holm (SWE) + 6-4 6-4
2T : Lars Olander (SWE) + 6-4 6-1
QF: Hakan Zahr (SWE) + 6-3 1-6 6-1
DF: Rolf Norberg (SWE) + 6-2 6-1 5-7 6-3
F : Tenny Svensson (SWE) - 7-5 6-2 2-6 12-10

Valence Rothmans International (Espagne) Clay, 26 mars- 1 avril :
1T : Corrado Barazzutti (ITA) + 6-4 6-2
2T : Adriano Panatta (ITA) - 6-2 6-1

Barcelone Rothmans Championships (Espagne) Clay, 2-8 avril :
1T : Corrado Barazzutti (ITA) + 1-6 6-4 6-2
2T : Adriano Panatta (ITA) - 2-6 6-2 6-3

Nice Craven International (France) Clay, 9-15 avril :
1T : Tadeusz Nowicki (POL) - 6-2 6-1

Monte Carlo Craven Championships (Monaco) Clay, 16-22 avril :
1T : Robert Machan (HUN) + 6-4 6-1
2T : Corrado Barazzutti (ITA) + 6-2 6-3
QF: Antonio Munoz (ESP) + 6-3 6-3 6-2
DF: Georges Goven (FRA) + 7-5 6-4 5-7 6-1
F : Ilie Nastase (ROU) - 6-4 6-1 6-2

Madrid Rothmans International (Espagne) Clay, 23-29 avril :
1T : Paul Gerken (USA) - 6-4 6-2

Coupe Davis à Rabat (Maroc) contre le Maroc Clay, 4-6 mai :
1T : Omar Laimina (MAR) + 6-3 6-2 6-1
1T : Ahmed Ben Omar (MAR) + 6-1 6-0 6-1

Coupe Davis à Bastad (Suède) contre l'Espagne Clay, 18-20 mai :
QF: Manuel Orantes (ESP) - 6-1 6-2 6-1
QF: Antonio Munoz (ESP) + 5-7 6-3 6-3 3-6 7-5

Roland Garros French Open Championships (France) Clay, 21 mai- 3 juin :
1T : Cliff Richey (SWE) + 6-2 6-3
2T : Pierre Barthes (FRA) + 3-6 6-1 8-6
3T : Dick Stockton (USA) + 6-7 7-5 6-2 7-6
4T : Adriano Panatta (ITA) - 7-6 2-6 7-5 7-6

Beckenham Kent Tennis Championships (Angleterre) Grass, 11-16 juin :
1T : Ernie Ewert (AUS) + 7-5 6-2
2T : Sherwood Stewart (USA) + 6-4 6-4
3T : Onny Parun (NZL) + 6-2 6-2
QF: Robert McKinley (USA) + 2-6 6-2 6-3
DF: Owen Davidson (AUS) + 6-4 6-4
F : Alex Metreveli (RUS) - 6-3 9-8

Wimbledon The Lawn Tennis Championships (Angleterre) Grass, 25 juin- 7 juillet :
1T : Premjit Lall (IND) + 6-3 6-4 9-8
2T : Patrick Hombergen (BEL) + 6-4 6-2 6-4
3T : Karl Meiler (GER) + 6-4 6-4 3-6 2-6 6-3
4T : Szabolcs Baranyi (HUN) + 6-3 6-2 6-8 5-7 6-1
QF: Roger Taylor (GBR) - 6-1 6-8 3-6 6-3 7-5

Bastad Swedish Open Championships (Suède) Clay, 9-15 juillet :
1T : Anand Amritraj (IND) + 6-1 6-4
2T : Jan Kukal (CZE) + 6-7 7-6 6-3
QF: Jaime Pinto-Bravo (CHI) + 6-3 6-1
DF: Stan Smith (USA) - 6-4 6-4 6-2

Kitzbühel Head Cup (Autriche) Clay, 16-22 juillet :
1T : Raul Ramirez (MEX) - 7-5 7-6

Bastad Champion Cup (Suède) Clay, ? 25-29 juillet :
RR : Pierre Barthes (FRA) + 6-1 6-2
RR : Martin Mulligan (AUS) + 4-6 6-4 6-2
RR : Leif Johansson (SWE) - 6-3 2-6 6-4

Stockholm Swedish National Outdoor Tennis Championships (Suède) Clay, ? août :
1T : Bengt Aberg (SWE) + 6-1 8-6
2T : Hans Nerell (SWE) + 2-6 6-4 8-6
QF: Terje Larsen (SWE) + 6-1 6-0
DF: Kjell Johansson (SWE) + 6-1 8-6 6-3
F : Tenny Svensson (SWE) + 6-0 3-6 6-4 6-4

Toronto Rothmans Canadian Open (Canada) Hard, 20-26 août :
1T : Pat Cramer (RSA) + 6-4 6-2
2T : Dick Crealy (AUS) + 6-2 6-3
3T : Ken Rosewall (AUS) + 2-6 6-1 7-5
QF: Manuel Orantes (ESP) - 7-5 7-6

Forest Hills U.S. Open Championships (New York, USA) Grass, 29 août- 9 septembre :
1T : Roy Barth (USA) + 3-6 6-7 6-4 6-1 6-2
2T : Jean-Baptiste Chanfreau (FRA) + 7-5 2-6 6-1 6-4
3T : Arthur Ashe (USA) + 6-7 6-4 6-4 6-4
4T : Nikola Pilic (YUG) - 6-4 5-7 6-3 6-4

Aptos Seascape Open (Californie, USA) Hard, 10-16 septembre :
1T : Tom Leonard (USA) - 6-3 6-4

Los Angeles Pacific Southwest Open (Californie, USA) Hard, 17-23 septembre :
1T : Paul Kronk (AUS) - 7-6 4-6 6-4

San Francisco Pacific Coast International (Californie, USA) Carpet, 24-30 septembre :
1T : Milan Holecek (CZE) + 3-6 7-6 7-6
2T : Vladimir Zednik (CZE) + 6-4 6-0
QF: Tom Gorman (USA) + 6-4 5-7 7-6
DF: Raymond Moore (RSA) + 6-3 6-3
F : Roy Emerson (AUS) - 5-7 6-1 6-4

Québec Rothmans International (Canada) Carpet, 1-7 octobre :
1T : Terry Ryan (RSA) + 7-5 6-1
2T : Kjell Johansson (SWE) - 6-2 6-2

Barcelone Spanish Open (Espagne) Clay, 8-14 octobre :
1T : Robert Carmichael (AUS) + 6-0 6-2
2T : Patricio Rodriguez (CHI) + 6-2 6-2
3T : Jaime Fillol (CHI) + 6-2 6-4
QF: Andrew Pattison (USA) + 11-9 6-1
DF: Manuel Orantes (ESP) - 6-3 6-2 6-3

Madrid Melia Trophy (Espagne) Clay, 15-21 octobre :
1T : Juan Muntanola (ESP) + 7-5 6-2
2T : José Higueras (ESP) - 6-1 4-6 7-5

Prague Championships (Tchécoslovaquie) Clay, 22-28 octobre :
1T : Tadeuzs Nowicki (POL) + 6-2 6-2
2T : Barry Phillips-Moore (AUS) - 7-6 7-5

Paris Jean Becker Open (France) Hard (i), 29 octobre- 4 novembre :
2T : Graham Stilwell (GBR) + 7-6 3-6 7-5
3T : Arthur Ashe (USA) - 7-6 6-3

Stockholm Open (Suède) Hard (i), 5-11 novembre :
2T : Birger Andersson (SWE) + 3-6 7-6 6-0
3T : Ilie Nastase (ROU) + 6-2 4-6 7-5
QF: Nikola Pilic (YUG) + 5-7 6-4 6-4
DF: Jimmy Connors (USA) + 6-4 3-6 7-6
F : Tom Gorman (USA) - 6-3 4-6 7-6

Londres Dewar Cup (Angleterre) Carpet, 12-17 novembre :
1T : Manuel Orantes (ESP + 6-3 6-2
2T : Mark Cox (GBR) - 6-3 6-1

Buenos Aires South American Open (Argentine) Clay, 19-25 novembre :
1T : Enrique Caviglia (ARG) + 6-0 6-2
2T : Ricardo Cano (ARG) + 6-4 7-6
QF: Ion Tiriac (ROU) + 6-1 3-6 6-3
DF: Ivan Molina (COL) + 6-2 6-3 6-2
F : Guillermo Vilas (ARG) - 3-6 6-7 6-4 6-6 abandon.

Coupe du Roi décembre :
1T : Mark Cox (GBR) - 9-7 6-4
1T : Christopher Mottram (GBR) + 8-6 6-1
DF: Manuel Orantes (ESP) + 13-11 6-8 6-1
F : Adriano Panatta (ITA) + 4-6 6-2 8-6

 

[Rabbit]

That needs to be prefaced very, very clearly with the added information that when Laver started to hit harder - as opposed to Korda and Leconte (especially Leconte)- he hit with more and more topspin. Charlie Hollis, his original coach, taught him that the best way to avoid tightness/nerves was to hit out BUT, he had to add topspin to give himself clearance over the net. That's why, stylistically, he looks nothing at all like either Korda or Leconte - two guys who had no idea what it meant to give themselves margin for error.

It's also the chief reason why Laver wasn't a low percentage player. The other was that Laver, unlike Korda and Leconte, was touched by that extra bit of genius that turned the exceptionally low percentage into a routine shot.

I agree. Korda and Leconte were as gifted a shot maker, including Laver, as the game has ever seen, but they missed that one key element, court sense and a tactical appreciation of what to change when things weren't going 100% their way. The best example of the two was Korda's run to the Australian Open title and the worst was Leconte's performance in the French Open final against Wilander. Leconte was just a bit off that day and the absolute worst match up for him was a guy like Wilander who just sat back and grinded it out.

As for Pancho's opinions, they don't carry so much weight for me since hearing quite contrary views from a few of the Aussies who played against him.

Could you elaborate on this some? I'd be interested in some of those opinions. I read Rod Laver's book, the one co-written by Bud Collins, in which he said Pancho was a "b@st@rd". I was really kind of shocked that Laver would step out of character like that especially putting a comment like that in print. He always deferred from those type comments, so there must have been a real dislike there at some point. He did soften that comment some after that saying that Gonzalez was a true champion and one of the best ever.

 

[Carlo Giovanni Colussi]

Short answer to Rabbit about Laver's opinion of Gonzales,

Peter Burwash interviewed Laver at the end of 1970 (interview published in the same World Tennis as the one where McCauley published his world ranking).
Apparently Burwash considered that Laver was still the #1 in 1970 and Laver thought much about Gonzales’ desire to win :
PB Who do you think will be your successor ?
RL I don’t think in those terms. However, the best players coming along are Tony Roche and John Newcombe.
PB Which of the current active players do you admire the most ?
RL Pancho Gonzalez. He has terrific ability to play the game and he has always loved tennis. I marvel at Pancho’s desire to win.

The first edition of Laver's autobiography (written with Collins) was published in early 1971 (so was probably written around the same period as Burwash's interview) and the 2nd edition in 1973.
This shows the mixed and contradicting Laver's feelings about Gorgo but I think it was anyone's case.
Everyone seemed to admire Gonzales' great mental strength but didn't appreciate Gonzales' behaviour on the court.

 

[urban]

All the great Aussies had mixed feelings about Pancho. Once,around 1963, he sued them for the control of the pro game, and brought them to a law court. Hoad said, he wouldn't **** on him, when on fire. At the 1967 US pro indoors,Laver and Gonzales had a fierce verbal exchange. Gonzales accused him of early or fast serving, but the trick missfired. Laver got angry and went on to blow Gonzales off the court.

 

[Rabbit]

Short answer to Rabbit about Laver's opinion of Gonzales,

Peter Burwash interviewed Laver at the end of 1970 (interview published in the same World Tennis as the one where McCauley published his world ranking).
Apparently Burwash considered that Laver was still the #1 in 1970 and Laver thought much about Gonzales’ desire to win :
PB Who do you think will be your successor ?
RL I don’t think in those terms. However, the best players coming along are Tony Roche and John Newcombe.
PB Which of the current active players do you admire the most ?
RL Pancho Gonzalez. He has terrific ability to play the game and he has always loved tennis. I marvel at Pancho’s desire to win.

The first edition of Laver's autobiography (written with Collins) was published in early 1971 (so was probably written around the same period as Burwash's interview) and the 2nd edition in 1973.
This shows the mixed and contradicting Laver's feelings about Gorgo but I think it was anyone's case.
Everyone seemed to admire Gonzales' great mental strength but didn't appreciate Gonzales' behaviour on the court.

Thanks! This is very much in line with what I've read of all Gonzalez's relationships. He was admired and disliked at the same time.

All the great Aussies had mixed feelings about Pancho. Once,around 1963, he sued them for the control of the pro game, and brought them to a law court. Hoad said, he wouldn't **** on him, when on fire. At the 1967 US pro indoors,Laver and Gonzales had a fierce verbal exchange. Gonzales accused him of early or fast serving, but the trick missfired. Laver got angry and went on to blow Gonzales off the court.

I have to ask you. In your opinion, is tennis better with personality (see your quote) or without (see current game)? I have to say that I loved knowing that John McEnroe and Jimmy Connors and Ivan Lendl hated each other and wanted to beat each other's brains out. For me, it made the competition personal and more real.

 

[Carlo Giovanni Colussi]

I have to ask you. In your opinion, is tennis better with personality (see your quote) or without (see current game)? I have to say that I loved knowing that John McEnroe and Jimmy Connors and Ivan Lendl hated each other and wanted to beat each other's brains out. For me, it made the competition personal and more real.

I don't think that modern players have less personality than before (Gonzales, Connors or Mac).
But now tennis is much more regulated.
Remember that McEnroe was sent off the court for the first time at the Australian 1990 (against Pernfors in the round of 16) at the end of Mac's career (he was almost 31 years old).
In the 2000's McEnroe would have played few matches because he would have been often eliminated by the referees in many tourneys if he had behaved as in the 70's-80's-90's.
In the first decades of the open era, the players were more or less allowed to do almost all they want on the court.
But now Mac, Nasty or Jimbo couldn't behave as badly as they did then.

The Laver-Rosewall or the Nadal-Federer or the McEnroe-Borg matches have sometimes been wonderful though apparently none hated the other one.

 

[Rabbit]

I don't think that modern players have less personality than before (Gonzales, Connors or Mac).
But now tennis is much more regulated.
Remember that McEnroe was sent off the court for the first time at the Australian 1990 (against Pernfors in the round of 16) at the end of Mac's career (he was almost 31 years old).
In the 2000's McEnroe would have played few matches because he would have been often eliminated by the referees in many tourneys if he had behaved as in the 70's-80's-90's.
In the first decades of the open era, the players were more or less allowed to do almost all they want on the court.
But now Mac, Nasty or Jimbo couldn't behave as badly as they did then.

The Laver-Rosewall or the Nadal-Federer or the McEnroe-Borg matches have sometimes been wonderful though apparently none hated the other one.

Sorry, but I disagree. It is my understanding that players are coached as to what they should/shouldn't say. McEnroe/Connors/Lendl's behavior could have been perfect on court and you still knew these guys didn't like each other.

I agree with your Laver-Rosewall / Borg-McEnroe statement and appreciated those matches as well. But.....having an entire tour that's a love fest is boring as well. Laver may have liked Rosewall, but Laver also plugged Nastase in a net exchange after Nastase had made him mad. That's the kind of stuff you don't see any more that made tennis more fun to watch.

 

[crash1929]

i've never even heard of lew hoad. i know nothing.

 

[pc1]

i've never even heard of lew hoad. i know nothing.

An awesome Aussie player who many feel was the GOAT. He almost won the Grand Slam in 1956 until he was stopped by Ken Rosewall in the US Championship final in four sets. Many believe when Hoad was "on" that he was unbeatable. He was apparently a man of almost superhuman strength who could "flick" shots for winner. He could hit with heavy topspin on both side, was a terrific serve and volleyer with a massive serve that some even said was harder than Pancho Gonzalez's. Excellent speed and stamina.

Pancho Gonzalez said that he was the one player that if he (Gonzalez) was playing his best could still beat him.

People have said Hoad was a very low percentage player who took too many risks and made too many unnecessary errors. He didn't have a long peak because of back problems.

 

[Frank Silbermann]

Many believe when Hoad was "on" that he was unbeatable. He was apparently a man of almost superhuman strength who could "flick" shots for winner. He could hit with heavy topspin on both sides

Note that Hoad could hit very hard and with heavy topspin off both sides using the _continental_ grip and a heavy wooden racket! However, like Laver, he saved his backhand topspin for when an opponent was at (or heading towards) the net.

As for Gonzales, the other pros hated him also because of the way he behaved _off_ the court. He wouldn't do his share of the tour promotion. He had a chip on his shoulder because he thought the best pro should make the most money. In those days, the most money went to the newest pro because people bought tickets to see how the previous year's amateur champ would stand up to the pros, and because the amateur sacrificed so much prestige and social cachet upon turning pro. (He would be thereafter be prohibited from all the major tournaments and would be shunned by the tennis establishment.) They tour promoter (Jack Kramer) didn't have to pay the established pros as much because they no longer piqued the public's curiosity, and because the established pros had nothing more to lose by signing on to another pro tour.

Also, the Australians were used to being pals off the court to make the life on tour less lonely. Gonzales in contrast isolated himself socially and cultivated contempt for the other players to motivate himself to try harder to beat them. Most people lose their coordination when angry, but it made Gonzales played better. So he would look for opportunities to cultivate bad feeling.`

Sometimes I think that when a player is praised for his great competitive spirit in that he would do anything to win, it's often a nice way to hint that he was a cheater. For example, people also said that about Jimmy Connors. When a lower-ranked competitor was in the zone and beating him, Connor would interrupt play by stalling, making obscene jokes for the fans, arguing over line-calls for ten minutes or longer -- anything to irritate his opponent and upset his emotions so that the opponent would lose his touch. Or just to wait until the opponent cooled down and got stiff, perhaps upon resuming play the opponent would no longer be in the zone.

One of the arguments for keeping the sport for amateurs only was the hope that people would value their reputation for good sportsmanship as much as their winning record. There was still some emotional manipulation going on, but it was more subtle. For example, if an opponent was hitting his backhand unusually well that day, a gamesmanship strategy would be to complement the opponent on it and ask him what he was doing differently -- thereby changing the opponent's focus of attention onto his hitting technique instead of on the ball.

 

[crash1929]

frank, it sounds like tennis was run very oddly back then. tks for sharing.

 

[380pistol]

An awesome Aussie player who many feel was the GOAT. He almost won the Grand Slam in 1956 until he was stopped by Ken Rosewall in the US Championship final in four sets. Many believe when Hoad was "on" that he was unbeatable. He was apparently a man of almost superhuman strength who could "flick" shots for winner. He could hit with heavy topspin on both side, was a terrific serve and volleyer with a massive serve that some even said was harder than Pancho Gonzalez's. Excellent speed and stamina.

Pancho Gonzalez said that he was the one player that if he (Gonzalez) was playing his best could still beat him.

People have said Hoad was a very low percentage player who took too many risks and made too many unnecessary errors. He didn't have a long peak because of back problems.

And what would a consistent Hoad be?? According to Pancho, Sam and Georgia's 3rd born.