Rate this fellow
- Thread starter WBF
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Thud and blunder
Semi-Pro
Interesting. Had me fooled.
The point where I really marked him down was the one at 3:30, where he just watches his ball, making no effort to get into a neutral position, before picking himself up and haring after the ball Keystone Kops-style once you make the return. I was thinking 'surely no half-decent player can move like that'. But perhaps, with what you said about his bad eyesight, he may simply have been convinced that his ball was heading out?
The point where I really marked him down was the one at 3:30, where he just watches his ball, making no effort to get into a neutral position, before picking himself up and haring after the ball Keystone Kops-style once you make the return. I was thinking 'surely no half-decent player can move like that'. But perhaps, with what you said about his bad eyesight, he may simply have been convinced that his ball was heading out?
johnny ballgame
Professional
I take issue with some of this. What you have posted is not a representative sample of his level of play. He played nine games in that set, and you have shown us the three games that he lost. And none of the six games that he won.
Using only his level of play in the video provided, I would say that the majority of posters were pretty much spot on with their rating of 3.5 - 4.0. Think about it... if he played at that level the entire set, that's about what he is.
Cheers, and thanks for posting.
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Why is it not representative? It is quite representative of the returning portion of his game. The only game that differed was the first game we played, where I missed more first serves and easy putaways 0
Regardless, as I said before, I specifically pointed out that the serve was difficult in order to assuage any doubts of weak returns. If you think a 3.5 or 4.0 would look like that against a big serve, you do not understand ratings. I can understand a 4.5 comment, as he did junk a few too many deep or in the net... It's not like he junked every shot, or wasn't ready for every shot...
Anyhow, here are three of his own games, as embarassing as they are
Nellie: No. It's more like posting a video of someone being put off balance by a tough serve. It happens to everyone. It also makes it tough to get in the groove during these games, because the points are so short. If you take into account the fact that these are mostly first serves (always tougher to return, even when the server throws in a second serve speed ball), the fact that the serves were tough, and the fact that he actually got a good number back, the video doesn't do a terrible job demonstrating that he is well above a 4.0.
Regardless, as I said before, I specifically pointed out that the serve was difficult in order to assuage any doubts of weak returns. If you think a 3.5 or 4.0 would look like that against a big serve, you do not understand ratings. I can understand a 4.5 comment, as he did junk a few too many deep or in the net... It's not like he junked every shot, or wasn't ready for every shot...
Anyhow, here are three of his own games, as embarassing as they are
Nellie: No. It's more like posting a video of someone being put off balance by a tough serve. It happens to everyone. It also makes it tough to get in the groove during these games, because the points are so short. If you take into account the fact that these are mostly first serves (always tougher to return, even when the server throws in a second serve speed ball), the fact that the serves were tough, and the fact that he actually got a good number back, the video doesn't do a terrible job demonstrating that he is well above a 4.0.
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johnny ballgame
Professional
Even if it's wholly representative of his return game (which it's not - you didn't show his break), that's only part of the game. We didn't see his serve, and the rallies were frankly weak for 4.5 (only two or three rallies more than 4 balls in 4 minutes of points-only footage??). I stand by my statement that the video shown is not representative of his level.
I understand ratings quite well. Your typical 4.0 in my city is quite capable of blocking back ~100 mph serves hit in the center of the box.
With all 3.5's, most 4.0's, and many 4.5's you would see less balls coming back, and a far greater number of huge misses: hitting the fence, shanking straight up, whiffing, grounders, etc. rather than relatively close balls. I suppose youtube videos make it hard to gauge a serve, but even from youtube videos you should be able to spot the difference between returns here, and what would happen with a 3.5 or 4.0 level player.
The rallies were a bit weak. Far too many UE's, but I wouldn't say this indicated anything remotely close to 3.5 or 4.0 level play.
johnny ballgame
Professional
Sup2Dresq: He was moved to 4.5's and then moved back out. National 50's (not 5.0 or ranked, just age based) he usually gets some matches in, most recently losing in the third round to a finalist, and getting 4 matches into the consolation. I don't know how to interpret stuff like this to rate someone.
lol.
WBF,
On the first video, your service game look like Sampras' on grass. Total domination.
On the second video, the other guy made you run around fetching balls like you're his little biotch.
I guess you can't really rate a player from just looking at one aspect of his/her game.
So is it save to assume that the other guy is the better player than you in a match-play situation?
Great thread!!!
PS. what part of NY are you from?
WBF,
On the first video, your service game look like Sampras' on grass. Total domination.
On the second video, the other guy made you run around fetching balls like you're his little biotch.
I guess you can't really rate a player from just looking at one aspect of his/her game.
So is it save to assume that the other guy is the better player than you in a match-play situation?
Great thread!!!
PS. what part of NY are you from?
safins back
New User
I think what is confusing is the difference in a 4.5 from the Northeast and a 4.5 from the southern section. The southern section contains far more and as a whole better players. I played in the 8.0 national championships and played a 4.5/3/5 team from the Northeast and the 4.5 guy was FAR worse than my 4.0 female partner. Thats what I think people are basing their evaluations on is what a 4.5 is in their region.
safins back
New User
We won the National eastern mixed championships in San Juan 2006. Pretty easily actually. North Carolina won the 8.0, senior 8.0, and the 10.0 national championship! Not bad for a small state. The 2 8.0 teams were from Winston Salem.
Well, if they won it easily then I guess they weren't really 8.0 combined?
johnny ballgame
Professional
I'm not going to name him, so here's a hypothetical:
Given that Hawaii won the 4.5's this year, would it be accurate for someone to claim that the players on that specific team don't stack up to other areas? I don't think it would, but then I'm not very familiar with how the leagues work.
*edit*: Oh, I may understand what you are saying... are you implying that some areas might have one or two amazing players but the team won't do as well because the talent drops off?
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dont underestimate WBF's mate, check out his service game
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN8a5hmWtio
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN8a5hmWtio
Nellie, yes, I noticed this as well. I thought about it earlier... Whenever I play matches with him, this always happens on his serve... There are multiple shots where I just drill it straight forward, or move to something and hit it right back to him! I will have to try generating more angles next time, perhaps this is why I have trouble breaking him...
BravoRed691
Semi-Pro
Maybe im wrong (i don't usually read all the posts, all the way thru) but didnt WBF say the guy in the white (that's him right?) say he lost 3-6? Well if that's true then i don't think the guy in the blue is no better than a 3.0. I mean aren't beginners in usta usually rated 2.5 coming in?
Br
BravoRed691
Semi-Pro
hey just saw the other vid...cool!
Br
Br
BravoRed691
Semi-Pro
wow, i wonder which post i was commenting on....must have been like pages ago...lol oops.
Br
Br
Looking at his service games I certainly would have rated him a 5.0. He looked really good except for dumping one volley and a couple times where he was lazy (or bored). Good serve, not huge, but effective with good spin and then controlled the points from the baseline doing a lot with the ball.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
WBF Is the other guy your dad?
OK if you don't want to say online, just curious.
J
OK if you don't want to say online, just curious.
J
Haha, I've said it before in other threads It is him. The bum.
On a side note, found out why my serves were on the weaker side here; turns out the movement/rocking I was doing before serving was very, very unhelpful.
And I move around like a beached whale because I'm dragging around 10 extra pounds
It is him. The bum.On a side note, found out why my serves were on the weaker side here; turns out the movement/rocking I was doing before serving was very, very unhelpful.
And I move around like a beached whale because I'm dragging around 10 extra pounds
smoothtennis
Hall of Fame
WBF - Nice stuff bro. I guessed 4.5, just based on your service (easily 100+), and his ability to contact it most of the time, plus he hit a few groundies that looked higher level.
After watching HIS service games, yeah, 4.5+++. He has power, spin control, and very good placement.
As far as how he was running you all over, you may be able to adjust that a bit. I noticed after his serve, he usually(usually *wink*), hits the next ground stroke right up the center. Then you usually hit it back almost up the middle. THis is where his third shot goes into a corner, and puts you on the immediate defense, while he stays in the middle dictating from there on.
I think after you hit your service return, pay special attention to your next shot, and try to place it deep in one of the corners safely, so he starts off moving himself, while YOU, are now setting up in the middle. Your dad places the ball so well, you have to get him off his base right off the bat, and don't allow him to set up so well. Try it, and see if that pays some dividends and keeps you in the points longer. Obviously, he is good enough, that any neutral ball you send him, is going to get placed so you are on the move defending.
Great vid - this one was really fun to watch.
After watching HIS service games, yeah, 4.5+++. He has power, spin control, and very good placement.
As far as how he was running you all over, you may be able to adjust that a bit. I noticed after his serve, he usually(usually *wink*), hits the next ground stroke right up the center. Then you usually hit it back almost up the middle. THis is where his third shot goes into a corner, and puts you on the immediate defense, while he stays in the middle dictating from there on.
I think after you hit your service return, pay special attention to your next shot, and try to place it deep in one of the corners safely, so he starts off moving himself, while YOU, are now setting up in the middle. Your dad places the ball so well, you have to get him off his base right off the bat, and don't allow him to set up so well. Try it, and see if that pays some dividends and keeps you in the points longer. Obviously, he is good enough, that any neutral ball you send him, is going to get placed so you are on the move defending.
Great vid - this one was really fun to watch.
