Manus Domini
Hall of Fame
someone said he looks like a 4.5
Rate this player
- Thread starter Manus Domini
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someone said he looks like a 4.5
D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
I'm sure many people would say Fabrice Santoro is 4.0 if they didn't know who he is and just watched his hitting video.
dozu
Banned
say everybody here lives in the same apartment complex and we all play on the same courts and know each other well.....
that would certainly change the entire picture of how we take everybody's technical input, as well as rating skills. I know there are several really good coaches on here, but I seem to take your inputs more seriously, partly because of your signature.
so short of physically hitting on the same courts, videos are the closest thing.
of course, knowing everybody well might actually kill the 'laughable' part of things.
tennis_balla
Hall of Fame
dozu, don't get me wrong I think having videos is a great idea. Its fun as well, but of course most won't show themselves and its ok. On the other hand however these rate that player threads are priceless cause people reveal their true knowledge about the sport without even meaning to by their answers. So its good as well, sometimes much more than a video. Thats what I was getting across in my last post
Andres
G.O.A.T.
That's worse than Polansky being a 4.0, since Pere Riba was ranked around ATP #70 just a couple of months ago
tennis_balla
Hall of Fame
Its not difficult to judge at all. 35secs of easy hitting is plenty
dominikk1985
Legend
Well I know his name, but from the first video I would have rated him about 5.5. doesn't do much effort there and today's 5.5 players already have a very pro-like technique.
the match of course shows how good he really is.
the match of course shows how good he really is.
Right, 5.5 level players have pro level stroke mechanics when hitting easy balls fed to them, and it's difficult to tell them apart just standing there hitting warm up shots. It's not until you see the person swinging 100% to see the pace and action they get on competitive shots and see their movement/footwork, consistency, and shot tolerance that you can tell a difference. The guy playing a point in the second video is clearly a pro. The guy hitting light warm up shots in the first video is just a guy with nice strokes that you don't have any idea how good he really is. That's why I would qualify it as 5.0+. The strokes are nice enough that he can't be below 5.0, but if you want me to guess how much better, show me something competitive.
Limibeans
Rookie
Could not rate based on the first video.
I've seen 3.5's hit like that but when you see them serve and/or volley you know why they're a 3.5 and not a 4.5+
Hard to judge when you cant even tell how fast/deep the ball is going or how much spin it has. Also see to see some serves and couple overheads and volleys.
This guys obviously a pro based on other videos and knowing the name. Just based on the first video though, could not tell at all. Id say "not a 3.0" and that's all I can really say about the first vid.
I've seen 3.5's hit like that but when you see them serve and/or volley you know why they're a 3.5 and not a 4.5+
Hard to judge when you cant even tell how fast/deep the ball is going or how much spin it has. Also see to see some serves and couple overheads and volleys.
This guys obviously a pro based on other videos and knowing the name. Just based on the first video though, could not tell at all. Id say "not a 3.0" and that's all I can really say about the first vid.
Fugazi
Professional
"Not a 3.0" is all you could say??? Sure the first video isn't so impressive, but it's easy to see that he's at least 5.0-5.5.
Limibeans
Rookie
It's not meant to be insulting.
1) The video is short, low quality and it's just a rally.
2) You only see forehands and a few backhands.
3) You cannot really tell how fast the balls are coming, or going.
4) You cannot tell how much spin or how deep the balls are going.
5) It's not even point play so there is no variety with the shots.
The only thing I could see there is "good form" and a "professional venue" and a decent forehand. I've seen lots of 3.5's with good form and decent forehands.
We're just rating the player based on what is being shown in the video.
There is a huge difference between a 3.5 and a 5.5. Those differences are not shown in that video.
anontennis
New User
4.5 or below would be a ludicrous guess even from that short clip. I would put the bare minimum at 5.0, and would venture to guess this is a pro player, or will be soon (soon after the video was taken).
If you know a single "3.5" with strokes that vaguely resemble those, you know a liar.
If you know a single "3.5" with strokes that vaguely resemble those, you know a liar.
Limibeans
Rookie
Problem with that kind of thinking is.....
There are 3.5's that I know that can easily look like that player. 5 balls in a row? Since when is hitting 5 non-moonballs/frameshots indicative of a 5.0 player? Repeatable swings? Id rather see not repeatable swings because you can see how they adjust.
You can only guess that ball is going fast and that hes swinging hard. Everyone knows that a 5.0 doesnt need to swing hard to rip a shot and that a 2.5 can take a full swing and only result in a 40 mph roller.
You cant tell thats his coach just by that video. That could just be a spectator or even someone elses coach. Just by that vid (unless he said so in Spanish) that could be just anyone watching.
Yeah, hes on a tournament court. Does that mean hes a tournament player? If Mother Theresa appears in jail does that make her a criminal? Lots of people have access to tournament venues. For all anyone knows it could have just been a ball boy or the commish's nephew or something.
He's relaxed. Ok. What does that mean? Only good players can seem relaxed? I probably look super tense when im playing. Does that mean im not good?
See what im getting at?
Just based on what you see in that video you cannot tell hes more than a 3.0. You can only "guess" and "infer" and use outside information to tell otherwise.
Limibeans
Rookie
Not at all legit.
Id say the tree fell. What you're saying is that an NTRP 9.0 Lumberjack cut it down... even though you just saw a tree, heard the tree, smelled the tree, smoked some grass and then started arguing with me.
Manus Domini
Hall of Fame
I'd pay $1000 to see a USTA rated 3.5 with those strokes
Timbo's hopeless slice
Hall of Fame
I suspect Lima might be rated USTA 3.5 himself...
It would explain a lot.
It would explain a lot.
Fugazi
Professional
I have to disagree. There is a huge difference between a 3.5 and a 5.0. The 3.5 doesn't look good, has bad/average balance, low/average racquet head speed, no adjustment steps, bad/average form. The 5.0+ will always look better in these aspects, even if you can only see a few shots. It can be difficult to rate precisely in the 5.0-7.0 range with such a short video though.
Fugazi
Professional
No 3.5 can look like that. If you look closely at the overall body movement/posture/footwork, it's just impossible. The 3.5 will look sloppy and will have, amongst other things, bad form with the non-dominant arm on the FH 99% of the time.
TennisCoachFLA
Banned
1 against 21. You can see enough precision, balance, footwork, racquet head speed, and timing in the short clip where you would go higher than 3.5.
Limibeans
Rookie
Let's say for a sec that this video was a video sent to a college recruiter.
How many recruiters would sign this guy just based on that first video?
If all of you guys can obviously see a 5.5+ player, wouldnt you think that almost any college would accept this player based on that video?
Have you guys ever seen, critiqued or tried to submit a video for college/sponsorship recruitment?
I think most colleges would give a partial or better to a student who is a legit 5.5+ player. I ask again, if this was the video that you, as the recruiter, had to watch and make a decision, im guessing all of you would sign this guy based on his "oh so obvious" 5.5+ NTRP?
Get real.
How many recruiters would sign this guy just based on that first video?
If all of you guys can obviously see a 5.5+ player, wouldnt you think that almost any college would accept this player based on that video?
Have you guys ever seen, critiqued or tried to submit a video for college/sponsorship recruitment?
I think most colleges would give a partial or better to a student who is a legit 5.5+ player. I ask again, if this was the video that you, as the recruiter, had to watch and make a decision, im guessing all of you would sign this guy based on his "oh so obvious" 5.5+ NTRP?
Get real.
TennisCoachFLA
Banned
Thats not a valid question. I review recruiting videos all the time for a number of college coaching buddies. You would not recruit based on what you think his NTRP ranking would be. You are more concerned with how he competes in real live tournaments.
If that was the first introduction I got to a player, I would certainly put that video in the pile to warrant further interest.
Fugazi
Professional
This video looks like it was made by a 5.0+ player who played very relaxed and didn't even think about going to college...
I wouldn't have bet my life just seeing a guy at the park like that hitting that he was 5.0+ but I would definitely think there was a huge chance that he was at least 5.0. From the first video just 10 seconds in I could tell he was a very high level player by the way he warmed up. He is putting in very low effort in each swing and the ball coming off his racket very solidly with great technique. He misses almost nothing and the ball comes back pretty fast. If I was a college recruiter and saw this I would be HIGHLY interested in him and would do everything I could to see more of this guy. No I probably wouldn't instantly give him a full scholarship just because by some weird fluke that he isn't that good it could lose my job and all my credibility.
There is not a single 3.5 in the world who could look that good rallying like that. Even watching a 3.5 playing there best point of their lives from that angle you would be able to tell they are putting in FAR more effort to produce such a high quality shot.
There is not a single 3.5 in the world who could look that good rallying like that. Even watching a 3.5 playing there best point of their lives from that angle you would be able to tell they are putting in FAR more effort to produce such a high quality shot.
Limibeans
Rookie
Oh, its very valid and you answered it yourself.
You are more concerned with how he competes in tournaments, in other words, you'd need more information. You would put him in another pile to get more information.
All i've been saying this whole time is that I need more information on this player to see that hes actually a 5.0+, such as a better video that shows some point play, or match records, or something. None of that can be found in the video.
You cant just look at a video of a few forehands+backhands and say that obvious 5.0 is obvious. I said the same thing as you did, the same way you did. "He's not a 3.0, but id need more information to say exactly what."
Photoshop
Professional
Limibeans,
3.5's can't even feed the ball like the guy in the video
and yes you can tell how fast/hard he's hitting just from the racquet head speed. and pay close attention to how the 5-6 forehands he hit are almost identical every time... Sure it can be difficult to tell 5.5's and 7.0's apart, but all 3.5's have mechanical flaws. "not a 3.0" is like saying Gandalf from Lord of the Rings looks older than 25... Captain Obvious material lol
3.5's can't even feed the ball like the guy in the video
and yes you can tell how fast/hard he's hitting just from the racquet head speed. and pay close attention to how the 5-6 forehands he hit are almost identical every time... Sure it can be difficult to tell 5.5's and 7.0's apart, but all 3.5's have mechanical flaws. "not a 3.0" is like saying Gandalf from Lord of the Rings looks older than 25... Captain Obvious material lol
Fugazi
Professional
lolll good one!Limibeans,
3.5's can't even feed the ball like the guy in the video
and yes you can tell how fast/hard he's hitting just from the racquet head speed. and pay close attention to how the 5-6 forehands he hit are almost identical every time... Sure it can be difficult to tell 5.5's and 7.0's apart, but all 3.5's have mechanical flaws. "not a 3.0" is like saying Gandalf from Lord of the Rings looks older than 25... Captain Obvious material lol
DavaiMarat
Professional
Kinda messes up the guessing game when Youtube has a thumbnail beside the main video called 'Pere Riba vs Jurgen Melzer'.
Gotta hide it better bro...lol.
Gotta hide it better bro...lol.
anontennis
New User
Limi is either trolling or is competing for the 'worst eye for tennis' award.
Limi, I haven't seen any 4.5's that would resemble that short clip. I'm guessing you simply don't have the experience to know what to look for.
Limi, I haven't seen any 4.5's that would resemble that short clip. I'm guessing you simply don't have the experience to know what to look for.
Manus Domini
Hall of Fame
I wanted to see how many people were foolish enough to think he was 4.5 or below lol
No, he's saying you can tell he is at least a 5.0 but not sure if he is 5, 5.5, 6, or what.
WildVolley
Legend
I'll admit I can't necessarily distinguish between a 5.5 and a 7.0 by just looking at a few seconds of video.
For example, if I saw some video of Gasquet hitting and I didn't know who he was, I could tell by his contact that he's a very good player, but I probably wouldn't guess 7.0.
For example, if I saw some video of Gasquet hitting and I didn't know who he was, I could tell by his contact that he's a very good player, but I probably wouldn't guess 7.0.
Manus Domini
Hall of Fame
Ok, I guess you can't differentiate between 5.0 and 7.0 based on 30 seconds. But you definately can between anything lower than 5.0
WildVolley
Legend
That's definitely true.
Most players below 4.5 just don't have grooved professional looking strokes, good movement and solid contact.
tennis_balla
Hall of Fame
Footwork or not, laziness or flying around on the court, its very easy to spot someone who's been playing or has played tennis at a high level and someone who mostly plays on the weekends and considers it a hobby.
I hit today with a former top 30 WTA player, might get a video for you guys next time but I doubt she'd want it spreading around. I've hit with her before, and anytime I hit with someone who understands the game and knows whats going on its a completely different approach to the warm up, hitting easy from the baseline, building up speed and rhythm, working on whatever you feel the need to, play some points and then a nice cool down hit of 30-40 balls in a row.
I hit today with a former top 30 WTA player, might get a video for you guys next time but I doubt she'd want it spreading around. I've hit with her before, and anytime I hit with someone who understands the game and knows whats going on its a completely different approach to the warm up, hitting easy from the baseline, building up speed and rhythm, working on whatever you feel the need to, play some points and then a nice cool down hit of 30-40 balls in a row.
D
Deleted member 120290
Guest
Yeah, I do exactly the same routine except my cool down lasts 3-4 balls in a row.
dominikk1985
Legend
I would say a player that can hit clean topsin strokes of both wings is by that alone a 4.0.
actually guys who can hit nice paced topspins of both wings without shanking or being inconsistent are quite rare among rec players. most players strokes look much uglier than the player himself thinks.
Of course a player with clean topspin strokes could still have absolutely no serve and no volleys (then he would not be a 4.0) but I have never seen that.
anyone who says this guy could be anything below 4.0 doesn't know tennis.
he could be only a 5.0 though. or even maybe a very good 4.5. but certainly nothing below.
actually guys who can hit nice paced topspins of both wings without shanking or being inconsistent are quite rare among rec players. most players strokes look much uglier than the player himself thinks
.Of course a player with clean topspin strokes could still have absolutely no serve and no volleys (then he would not be a 4.0) but I have never seen that.
anyone who says this guy could be anything below 4.0 doesn't know tennis.
he could be only a 5.0 though. or even maybe a very good 4.5. but certainly nothing below.
Manus Domini
Hall of Fame
I would say a player that can hit clean topsin strokes of both wings is by that alone a 4.0.
actually guys who can hit nice paced topspins of both wings without shanking or being inconsistent are quite rare among rec players. most players strokes look much uglier than the player himself thinks
Of course a player with clean topspin strokes could still have absolutely no serve and no volleys (then he would not be a 4.0) but I have never seen that.
anyone who says this guy could be anything below 4.0 doesn't know tennis.
he could be only a 5.0 though. or even maybe a very good 4.5. but certainly nothing below.
plus he catches a backhand out of the air in the first vid, without even flinching.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
Comes to show just how inaccurate we are when we ask each other to rate our skills based on one YouTube video...
keepurpowderdry
Rookie
I'm not experienced enough to rate someone while their just hitting warm up strokes
Just from that video i will guess 4.5 to 5.0 but like I said warm up shots don't show to much. he could be 6.0 easily but I can't tell from this video of warm up strokes.
Just from that video i will guess 4.5 to 5.0 but like I said warm up shots don't show to much. he could be 6.0 easily but I can't tell from this video of warm up strokes.
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dennis10is
Banned
He's a 3.0 and Topaz would probably split sets with him.
It is a trap. You look at the surrounding and the "coach", so you think oh, this must be a Pro tournament but it isn't. It's like going to the USTA Tennis Center to mislead people into thinking you are watching a Pro tournament.
3.5 Men here would rip him to shreds.
It is a trap. You look at the surrounding and the "coach", so you think oh, this must be a Pro tournament but it isn't. It's like going to the USTA Tennis Center to mislead people into thinking you are watching a Pro tournament.
3.5 Men here would rip him to shreds.
keepurpowderdry
Rookie
It's a conspiracy ! lol You sound like those "poker rigged players on poker sites lol.. Just joking man .
keepurpowderdry
Rookie
tennis_balla
Hall of Fame
keepurpowderdry
Rookie
keepurpowderdry
Rookie
by the way fuzzy yellow tennis balls just sent out a new tip topic, "
When should you attack? Footwork has the answer!" I have the feeling they only give out half the info though
All my tennis money goes to strings .
