Rating range NTRP 4.0

ChaelAZ

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
So this is based on what is posted as NTRP 4.0. Interesting to see the variety of levels and styles. All respect to the players as I know some post here, so this is just a neat example to see the kind of variety and differneces that move players up and down in levels.

To me, obviously at the top would be 4.0 Nationals players. You can assume these are the top 4.0's and most likely borerline or in 4.5 now.



The rest of these are in no particular order...




This is a very cool example of style differences feature our own @BallBag




Mike posted this 4.0 and mentions the difference betwen sections and ratings. Good 4.0 tennis though.




Da man, AdamC who battled his way through 3.5 to 4.0 this last year.




Marked as consistency vs. power, that's spot on.

https://youtu.be/jIaSurSqsYo


Last one

https://youtu.be/YTRnffdQABA




Just some examples that I have watched.
 
T

tomato123

Professional
Yes... my experience also is that competitive 4.0 is a jungle out there but to me that's a part of the fun and challenge as well. You never know what you're gonna get! Until you start playing the same people in your league, but even then there's so much variation :)
 
U

undecided

Semi-Pro
ChaelAZ said:
So this is based on what is posted as NTRP 4.0. Interesting to see the variety of levels and styles. All respect to the players as I know some post here, so this is just a neat example to see the kind of variety and differneces that move players up and down in levels.

To me, obviously at the top would be 4.0 Nationals players. You can assume these are the top 4.0's and most likely borerline or in 4.5 now.



The rest of these are in no particular order...




This is a very cool example of style differences feature our own @BallBag




Mike posted this 4.0 and mentions the difference betwen sections and ratings. Good 4.0 tennis though.




Da man, AdamC who battled his way through 3.5 to 4.0 this last year.




Marked as consistency vs. power, that's spot on.

https://youtu.be/jIaSurSqsYo


Last one

https://youtu.be/YTRnffdQABA




Just some examples that I have watched.
Click to expand...
1st video, in the warm-up the guys were hitting a good ball and then during point play they turned into moon ballers. WTH?
 
FiReFTW

FiReFTW

Legend
undecided said:
1st video, in the warm-up the guys were hitting a good ball and then during point play they turned into moon ballers. WTH?
Click to expand...

Didn't watch video but its a common occurance.

When warming up ur loose and relaxed, when match starts some people get very tight and nervious, specailly if its a final, so if ur not as loose anymore its hard to accelerate alot and get that whip and spin, so its common to start slowing down a bit more and hitting bigger arcs.
 
FiReFTW

FiReFTW

Legend
Ok I just watched a few mins of video 1, where is the moonballing exactly @undecided ? They are crushing the ball lol... and even when hitting higher arcs theres alot of acceleration and spin on the ball.

Typical tennis warehouse, any ball that has a higher arc is a moonball, even if it has heavy spin lol.

Amazing level of play btw, ive never seen 4.0 level look remotely as good on any youtube video and i watched many, they really are 4.5 by the looks of it.
 
ChaelAZ

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
FiReFTW said:
Amazing level of play btw, ive never seen 4.0 level look remotely as good on any youtube video and i watched many, they really are 4.5 by the looks of it.
Click to expand...


At Nationals that is the top players in the rating, for the most part. So they should be/are 4.5 caliber. They both most likely got bumped.
 
sredna42

sredna42

Hall of Fame
heninfan99 said:
I assume the guys in the first video were promoted to 4.5 the following day.
Click to expand...

Orange tellytubby never split steps from what i watched. Yet plays a pretty good game of tennis.

Pretty sad that they both died from anaphylaxis later that day when they saw someone hit a slice on the court next door.
 
C

Chadalina

Guest
Ntrp should only be used for social matches. Its pretty pathetic when people play down.

Bring back the pro's rating and this crap will end.
 
dimkin

dimkin

Hall of Fame
Chadalina said:
Ntrp should only be used for social matches. Its pretty pathetic when people play down.

Bring back the pro's rating and this crap will end.
Click to expand...

well ... USTA4.0 in NYC is full of legit 4.5s, and USTA4.5 is ridiculous - u got former college players there up to Div 2
 
Shroud

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
ChaelAZ said:
So this is based on what is posted as NTRP 4.0. Interesting to see the variety of levels and styles. All respect to the players as I know some post here, so this is just a neat example to see the kind of variety and differneces that move players up and down in levels.

To me, obviously at the top would be 4.0 Nationals players. You can assume these are the top 4.0's and most likely borerline or in 4.5 now.



The rest of these are in no particular order...




This is a very cool example of style differences feature our own @BallBag




Mike posted this 4.0 and mentions the difference betwen sections and ratings. Good 4.0 tennis though.




Da man, AdamC who battled his way through 3.5 to 4.0 this last year.




Marked as consistency vs. power, that's spot on.

https://youtu.be/jIaSurSqsYo


Last one

https://youtu.be/YTRnffdQABA




Just some examples that I have watched.
Click to expand...
Dude that looks like Sureshs in the 1st one. He finally got good and stopped hitting the buffets all the time.
 
tlm

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Just watched the first 2 guys and they look like solid 4.0 level players, but not much different than a lot of the 4.0 players I’ve watched in the indoor league at my club. I would consider them strong 4.0 level but not 4.5.
 
mightyrick

mightyrick

Legend
Those players in the first video are definitely nationals NTRP 4.0 team members -- which means they are huge sandbaggers and are actually 4.5s. Sandbagging is far easier with USTA team tennis because of the ability for stacking across singles and doubles -- combined with maybe bringing on a self-rated ringer.

Personally, I think USTA nationals are pretty much a joke. Stacking and sandbagging still goes on at local and sectional levels, but within a section... at least the playing levels are somewhat equivalent within that section.
 
U

undecided

Semi-Pro
FiReFTW said:
Ok I just watched a few mins of video 1, where is the moonballing exactly @undecided ? They are crushing the ball lol... and even when hitting higher arcs theres alot of acceleration and spin on the ball.

Typical tennis warehouse, any ball that has a higher arc is a moonball, even if it has heavy spin lol.

Amazing level of play btw, ive never seen 4.0 level look remotely as good on any youtube video and i watched many, they really are 4.5 by the looks of it.
Click to expand...
Its funny, the orange shirt guy does it, the other guy does not. I hit very similar ball to the orange guy and 2 of my hitting partners complain about the arc of the ball :)
 
tlm

tlm

G.O.A.T.
mightyrick said:
Those players in the first video are definitely nationals NTRP 4.0 team members -- which means they are huge sandbaggers and are actually 4.5s. Sandbagging is far easier with USTA team tennis because of the ability for stacking across singles and doubles -- combined with maybe bringing on a self-rated ringer.

Personally, I think USTA nationals are pretty much a joke. Stacking and sandbagging still goes on at local and sectional levels, but within a section... at least the playing levels are somewhat equivalent within that section.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much how it is in USTA the best sandbaggers win. But there is a wide range of talent at the 4.0 level and if you are getting down to the top 4.0 guys in the nation then I can see these guys being legit. To me they are strong 4.0 level but not 4.5.
 
tlm

tlm

G.O.A.T.
SDCHRIS said:
Show me some videos of NYC 4.0? If they are that good how come they aren't playing at the USTA national 4.0? Too good to mess around with USTA?
Click to expand...

I agree dimkin is way off on his assessment of what level these players are. 3.5 lol
 
S

SDCHRIS

New User
dimkin said:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5_cZw7_z-BhUmViUnE2VGx3QzA/view?usp=drivesdk

the taller guy is a 4.5 player fwiw.
Click to expand...

You posted a video with a 4.5 player. That doesn't count. Without telling me they are 4.5, I would have put them at the upper 4.0 to lower, very low 4.5 range.
They are better than most of the players in the video the OP posted. Comparing to the 1st video of the OP I don't see a huge difference which would make you rate them 3.5. From you video, the two are good hitters but I only saw a few good rallies like at 5:00. Else most points ends after 3-4 shots with a UE. Both players have weak net games. Unless you saying everybody in NYC is at this level for 4.0(which I highly doubt) then you are correct. Anyway you posted a 4.5 player, doesn't count.
 
dimkin

dimkin

Hall of Fame
SDCHRIS said:
You posted a video with a 4.5 player. That doesn't count. Without telling me they are 4.5, I would have put them at the upper 4.0 to lower, very low 4.5 range.
They are better than most of the players in the video the OP posted. Comparing to the 1st video of the OP I don't see a huge difference which would make you rate them 3.5. From you video, the two are good hitters but I only saw a few good rallies like at 5:00. Else most points ends after 3-4 shots with a UE. Both players have weak net games. Unless you saying everybody in NYC is at this level for 4.0(which I highly doubt) then you are correct. Anyway you posted a 4.5 player, doesn't count.
Click to expand...

(I am the one in the dark shirt)
My opponent (in the hat) is a pusher-type 4.5, he has deep dependable strokes, good angles. In particular what separates him from strong 4.0s is his BIG first serve and very annoying kick 2nd serve.
Also his consistent depth never gave me much to come in on, and when I did manage to come in, he made me hit tough balls or outright passed me. His net game is weak, making him move north south is
a good strategy, but I lack the feel :( I play most of my ladder matches against 4.5s, but USTA - 4.0. And USTA 4.0 is full of sandbagging 4.5s

" the 1st video of the OP " yes these guys are on the stronger side of the videos posted and are definitely solid 4.0s (not the other vids though).
 
Last edited:
S

SDCHRIS

New User
Ok the truth comes out. It's not that NYC have better USTA players, it's that most are sandbaggers. Therefore if the players in the OP were to play in NYC USTA they will have to play in the 3.5 level because of the sandbaggers. That makes more sense.
 
dimkin

dimkin

Hall of Fame
SDCHRIS said:
Ok the truth comes out. It's not that NYC have better USTA players, it's that most are sandbaggers. Therefore if the players in the OP were to play in NYC USTA they will have to play in the 3.5 level because of the sandbaggers. That makes more sense.
Click to expand...

I once played in a doubles game against a 3.5 team that went to Nationals ... granted I am mostly a singles player as was my partner ... (a strong 4.0 singles guy).

We were convincingly beaten ... that's 3.5 for ya ...
 
dimkin

dimkin

Hall of Fame
LeeD said:
Were you "beaten"? Or did you lose through poor play and bad tactics?
Click to expand...

tactics mostly ... all the returns patterns were wrong ... all the angles and instincts... now that I've played a lot more doubles I realize that we both played like singles dumb-asses ...
but those 3.5 dubs guys were no pushovers ... my guess is the only reasons they were 3.5 is due to imbalance ... i.e. strong fh, but only lob backhand ...
 
tlm

tlm

G.O.A.T.
Dartagnan64 said:
I have never watched human beings walk slower in a tennis match between points in my life. It was painful. Had you guys just finished running the NYC marathon?

7 minutes walking around, serve, return into the net, 7 minutes walking around, DF, seven minutes walking around.
Click to expand...

I agree I hate playing guys that don’t play at a decent pace, especially when I’m paying for indoor court time.
 
Moveforwardalways

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
Just FYI. The guys in the first video above are at nationals for a World Team Tennis 4.0 team. That does not mean they are USTA 4.0 players. That’s not how WTT works. Both are actually 4.5 and the older guy in the orange-ish shirt is a teaching pro, if I remember correctly. Regardless, they are not USTA 4.0 players, even for nationals.
 
J

Jhreamer

Guest
Very interesting. I enjoy seeing the radically different forms used by people at this (rangey) level. Thus far I've only tended to see video of higher-level players with technique that becomes more homogenized. For good reason, granted, but the individuality at this level is an intriguing watch.

And yeah, definitely fun to watch Adam's serve-and-volley game. Haven't played against that style yet; don't get to see much footage of it from court level view.
 
movdqa

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
Jhreamer said:
Very interesting. I enjoy seeing the radically different forms used by people at this (rangey) level. Thus far I've only tended to see video of higher-level players with technique that becomes more homogenized. For good reason, granted, but the individuality at this level is an intriguing watch.

And yeah, definitely fun to watch Adam's serve-and-volley game. Haven't played against that style yet; don't get to see much footage of it from court level view.
Click to expand...

A long, long time ago everyone played that style.
 
P

ptuanminh

Hall of Fame
dimkin said:
I once played in a doubles game against a 3.5 team that went to Nationals ... granted I am mostly a singles player as was my partner ... (a strong 4.0 singles guy).

We were convincingly beaten ... that's 3.5 for ya ...
Click to expand...
Thats totally normal. I played double once with 2 old guys (50s), very savvy, but probably 3.5 due to poor movement. My partner was also a pretty good 4.0.
We were brutally beaten 1-6 0-6.
You improved a lot dimkin. Very nice.
 
J

Jhreamer

Guest
movdqa said:
A long, long time ago everyone played that style.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's a shame for many reasons, of course. One being that almost all top-level specialists left the game or fell away before the digital age exploded, barring their trainings and practices from being shared online like everyone else's and their brothers'.
 
movdqa

movdqa

Talk Tennis Guru
Seems like it's in the ballpark. These guys look like they can play quite well but can also often be inconsistent. Guy in the black looks like the better player.
 
baowow

baowow

Rookie
Most rec players usually think they are way better than they actually are. Better players will sandbag to play on a team with friends for fun. NTRP ratings doesn't have too much meaning anymore...i'm a 3.75 :)
 
M

Moon Shooter

Hall of Fame
ChaelAZ said:
So this is based on what is posted as NTRP 4.0. Interesting to see the variety of levels and styles. All respect to the players as I know some post here, so this is just a neat example to see the kind of variety and differneces that move players up and down in levels.

To me, obviously at the top would be 4.0 Nationals players. You can assume these are the top 4.0's and most likely borerline or in 4.5 now.
Click to expand...

Chael was that you saying "come oahhn!" at this point in the match?

 
ChaelAZ

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
Moon Shooter said:
Chael was that you saying "come oahhn!" at this point in the match?

Click to expand...


Ironically, at practice last night I had like a dozen or more shots/volleys just skim or hit the net and go over and in. Each time I was "that guy" yelling com'on. lol. Was just razzing our other team players we were playing against!
 
onehandbh

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
In the first video, it seemed like a lot of serves went to the forehands. Was there a reason (tactically), that they did this?
 
M

matterer

Rookie
onehandbh said:
In the first video, it seemed like a lot of serves went to the forehands. Was there a reason (tactically), that they did this?
Click to expand...
Blue shirt's forehand isn't a threat so it's fine to serve to it. He isn't hitting topspin correctly, so he can't generate pace and put orange on defense. Even if orange hits a weak shot right in blue's wheelhouse, he only knows how to moonball it. Orange can hit hard, but when he hits hard to blue, blue will accidentally hit correctly because he doesn't have time to set up his loopy forehand. Orange can just push the ball back into play and wait for a good opportunity, or for blue to just self destruct.
 
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