Relax- Federer caked walked- No Delpo, Joker, Nadal

[lendlmac]

Federer is great, but not having faced a Soderling, Delpo, Joker or Nadal, or even Murray to win Finals is good but hardly GOAT. He played up to his ranking, beating players he should beat and can beat without facing any top Guns...Joker and Nadal alone have PWNED Federer all 2011

Keep dreaming...

 

[DjokovicForTheWin]

Yes but whose been pwned more in 2011 fed or nadal?

 

[djokovic2008]

Fed generally destroys the rest but struggles against nadal and djoker has this years results shows.

 

[RF20Lennon]

Federer is great, but not having faced a Soderling, Delpo, Joker or Nadal, or even Murray to win Finals is good but hardly GOAT. He played up to his ranking, beating players he should beat and can beat without facing any top Guns...Joker and Nadal alone have PWNED Federer all 2011

Keep dreaming...

Djokovic wouldve just embarrased himself if he played federer at this tourny (he lost the third set 6-0 to friggin Kei Nishikori in Basel) as for rafa THIS IS INDOOR SON federer has won every single time hes played him indoors. Delpo is not even close to his old form. Murray lost to berdych who federer killed. SO you point kinda doesnt stand. would it be more entertaining? heck yes but does that mean federer isnt that good. NO.

 

[TheFifthSet]

Federer is great, but not having faced a Soderling, Delpo, Joker or Nadal, or even Murray to win Finals is good but hardly GOAT. He played up to his ranking, beating players he should beat and can beat without facing any top Guns...Joker and Nadal alone have PWNED Federer all 2011

Keep dreaming...

Soderlings 0-6 or something versus Federer indoors. Murray lost 2 of his last 3 indoors against Federer . . . and was in the tournament. Djokovic lost his last 3 or 4, and was in the tournament. Nadal hasn't yet beaten Federer indoors, and hasn't won an indoor tournament in 6 years, what an imposing task to beat Rafa, a true virtuoso on indoor courts.

Yes, Federer clearly does not deserve this title. I'm sure everyone would concede the point. Now that you've won, lets move on.

 

[NadalAgassi]

The Del Potro hype continues. Yeah I am sure Federer is so relieved he didnt face someone who hasnt beaten a top 5 opponent in 2 whole years now.

 

[djokovic2008]

Soderlings 0-6 or something versus Federer indoors. Murray lost 2 of his last 3 indoors against Federer . . . and was in the tournament. Djokovic lost his last 3 or 4, and was in the tournament. Nadal hasn't yet beaten Federer indoors, and hasn't won an indoor tournament in 6 years, what an imposing task to beat Rafa, a true virtuoso on indoor courts.

Yes, Federer clearly does not deserve this title. I'm sure everyone would concede the point. Now that you've won, lets move on.

Believe me fed does not want nadal on any day and djoker has beat him four times this year. If someone beat you up four times would you look forward to facing him again??

 

[NadalAgassi]

Believe me fed does not want nadal on any day and djoker has beat him four times this year. If someone beat you up four times would you look forward to facing him again??

I agree overall but Djokovic seems injured and beat up right now. Hopefully he can recover for the WTF. Federer owns Nadal indoors thus far, even though Nadal is a nightmare for him on other sufaces.

 

[celoft]

Federer is great, but not having faced a Soderling, Delpo, Joker or Nadal, or even Murray to win Finals is good but hardly GOAT. He played up to his ranking, beating players he should beat and can beat without facing any top Guns...Joker and Nadal alone have PWNED Federer all 2011

Keep dreaming...

When was the last time Nadal or Soderling beat Federer indoors?

 

[djokovic2008]

I agree overall but Djokovic seems injured and beat up right now. Hopefully he can recover for the WTF. Federer owns Nadal indoors thus far, even though Nadal is a nightmare for him on other sufaces.

True, but when it comes to the top four psychology plays such a big part and you cannot just wipe your memory because you are on good form against the oh so rans.

 

[TheFifthSet]

Believe me fed does not want nadal on any day and djoker has beat him four times this year. If someone beat you up four times would you look forward to facing him again??

I don't understand what the fuss is about, I conceded that there is an asterisk next to this win and that Federer would have gotten massacred if had had the misfortune of playing Djokovic or Nadal on their beloved indoor courts, as they clearly would have been the favourites given their greatness on said courts.

I believe the intricate and beautiful thesis put forth by the o.p is magnificently argued and thought out, and thus I cannot produce a satisfactory retort to it.

 

[glazkovss]

We will see who is who in two weeks time. But even if Federer wins WTF most haters gonna say that it's indoors and all the opposition is either injured (Nadal, Djokovic, Murray, Fish) or weak and tired (Berdych, Ferrer, Tsonga).

 

[lendlmac]

Djokovic wouldve just embarrased himself if he played federer at this tourny (he lost the third set 6-0 to friggin Kei Nishikori in Basel) as for rafa THIS IS INDOOR SON federer has won every single time hes played him indoors. Delpo is not even close to his old form. Murray lost to berdych who federer killed. SO you point kinda doesnt stand. would it be more entertaining? heck yes but does that mean federer isnt that good. NO.

Naturally! You would also embarrass yourself playing injured, at 70% capacity, no doubt as evidenced in joker giving up to Nishikori....cause we both know joker wins in straights when healthy.....so yeah, give Federer props to embarrass an injured joker....lol

My point was, federer has won last 2 tourneys.....beat crappy Nishikori as he should....so? Then beats Tsonga, as he should. So?

What is so special? Of course you will look awesome when you beat berdych and Tsonga and Nishikori. lol

 

[TMF]

The way Tsonga and Berdych was playing, it doesn't matter if Nadal or a healthy Nole was playing, they are not going to win. Even Nadal couldn't beat Murray indoor(got bagel !), who lost to Berdych.

Indoor is totally difference.

 

[TopFH]

I hope Fed wins the WTF without losing a match again.

 

[Povl Carstensen]

Federer is great, but not having faced a Soderling, Delpo, Joker or Nadal, or even Murray to win Finals is good but hardly GOAT. He played up to his ranking, beating players he should beat and can beat without facing any top Guns...Joker and Nadal alone have PWNED Federer all 2011

Keep dreaming...

But being there at 30, doing the job, is also a part of what makes him goat (imo), compared to also rans who fail.

 

[Mainad]

Federer is great, but not having faced a Soderling, Delpo, Joker or Nadal, or even Murray to win Finals is good but hardly GOAT.

Lol...what do you mean "even Murray" ??

Murray has beaten Federer in straights in TWO Masters finals (2010 Toronto and 2010 Shanghai). Soderling has never beaten Fed in a final of any description while Delpo managed it just once two years ago though admittedly it was one of the biggest. Murray is far more of a threat to Fed in Masters tourneys than are Sod and Delpo!!

 

[The Bawss]

Federer was a man on a mission during this tournament. He would have beaten up on pretty much anybody to get this elusive masters title. By the way, he didn't bother dropping a set during the tournament.

 

[Xizel]

Soderling: LOLWUT?
Del Potro: He's still out of form from the olden days.
Djokovic: He's injured you dimwit.
Murray: Same as Djokovic.
Nadal: THIS IS INDOOR *****. Federer doesn't lose indoor and Nadal ALWAYS lose indoor.

 

[RF20Lennon]

Naturally! You would also embarrass yourself playing injured, at 70% capacity, no doubt as evidenced in joker giving up to Nishikori....cause we both know joker wins in straights when healthy.....so yeah, give Federer props to embarrass an injured joker....lol

My point was, federer has won last 2 tourneys.....beat crappy Nishikori as he should....so? Then beats Tsonga, as he should. So?

What is so special? Of course you will look awesome when you beat berdych and Tsonga and Nishikori. lol

so you cant say fed didnt deserve it cause if he had faced either of those guys he wouldve beaten them and also rewind to last year's WTF (granted djkovic was not even playing half as well as he did this year) fed wouldve still one. Indoor is his thing cause everything clicks because its perfect conditions no sun, wind, humidity whatever.

 

[RF20Lennon]

Lol...what do you mean "even Murray" ??

Murray has beaten Federer in straights in TWO Masters finals (2010 Toronto and 2010 Shanghai). Soderling has never beaten Fed in a final of any description while Delpo managed it just once two years ago though admittedly it was one of the biggest. Murray is far more of a threat to Fed in Masters tourneys than are Sod and Delpo!!

theres a differnce between outdoor and indoor fed has beaten murray twice at london but i agree with you that murray is better than soderling and TODAY'S delpo not the 2009 us delpo

 

[lendlmac]

You are giving "what if's" scenarios of how he would win indoors, my point was factual. Joker Nadal Delpo at their best is better than Nishikori and Tsonga.
LOL

 

[RF20Lennon]

You are giving "what if's" scenarios of how he would win indoors, my point was factual. Joker Nadal Delpo at their best is better than Nishikori and Tsonga.
LOL

yes i agree with you but my point is that even if they had competed against Roger at this point they would not have won due to mindset, injury blah, blah whatever.......

 

[dudeski]

I don't understand what the fuss is about, I conceded that there is an asterisk next to this win and that Federer would have gotten massacred if had had the misfortune of playing Djokovic or Nadal on their beloved indoor courts, as they clearly would have been the favourites given their greatness on said courts.

I believe the intricate and beautiful thesis put forth by the o.p is magnificently argued and thought out, and thus I cannot produce a satisfactory retort to it.

I agree. Also I would like to add that inspite of all his luck Federer still barely won this title sometimes needing up to an hour and twenty minutes to win his match.

 

[jackson vile]

So is Federer an old washed up poor man or not?

 

[sureshs]

He defeated Birdie who praised him later. I am sure Tsonga was already defeated before he walked on to the court. Real men like Djoker and Nadal come into the match thinking they will win, not like these losers.

 

[RF20Lennon]

He defeated Birdie who praised him later. I am sure Tsonga was already defeated before he walked on to the court. Real men like Djoker and Nadal come into the match thinking they will win, not like these losers.

RIIIIIGHT so basically tsong, berdych come into the match thinking"i am going to lose" and they lose and djokovic and nadal come thinking"i am going to win" and they lose ok i see your point.

 

[RF20Lennon]

I agree. Also I would like to add that inspite of all his luck Federer still barely won this title sometimes needing up to an hour and twenty minutes to win his match.

yeah cause an hour and twenty minutes is SOOOOOOOO LONG right? and its time that depends on whether a person barely won it. 6-1 in the first set son.

 

[dudeski]

yeah cause an hour and twenty minutes is SOOOOOOOO LONG right? and its time that depends on whether a person barely won it. 6-1 in the first set son.

Furthermore, even thou Fed didn't actually lose any sets he did lose an average of 3.4 games per set in this tournament which clearly goes to show that he barely won this tournament.

 

[zagor]

So is Federer an old washed up poor man or not?

Considering the fact that he didn't reach 7 finals in a row and 3 slam finals->yes he's a washed up poor man in huge decline.

 

[RF20Lennon]

Furthermore, even thou Fed didn't actually lose any sets he did lose an average of 3.5 games per set in this tournament which clearly goes to show that he barely won this tournament.

how is that barely won it wouldve been barely if he had to fight through the third set in each one of them and, or won IN A THIRD SET TIEBREAK against Tsonga it was cakewalk my friend and woulve been even if he had made Djoko or Rafa

 

[lendlmac]

Yeah, but Federer didn't face the caliber of talent of joker, Murray, delpo, or Nadal in the last two tournaments...so fantasizing that at "Federer's level of play now" he would have beaten them is laughable cause, Federers level was higher than Nishikori berdych and Tsonga, yet had no idea of the even higher level of play against joker Nadal and Delpo....Federer was never challenged by inferior opponents.....

The win was good. But that level of play would be inferior to Nadal joker and Delpo

 

[RF20Lennon]

Yeah, but Federer didn't face the caliber of talent of joker, Murray, delpo, or Nadal in the last two tournaments...so fantasizing that at "Federer's level of play now" he would have beaten them is laughable cause, Federers level was higher than Nishikori berdych and Tsonga, yet had no idea of the even higher level of play against joker Nadal and Delpo....Federer was never challenged by inferior opponents.....

The win was good. But that level of play would be inferior to Nadal joker and Delpo

ok hows this do you really think the djokovic who gets bageled by nishikori 6-0 would have a chance. And fed beat delpo in cincy therefore your point falls. Murray lost to berdych federer beat berdych simple syllogism would suggest that he wouldve beaten murray. And as for Rafa guy lost to Mayer at shanghai im pretty sure fed could beat him at his level of play at Paris.

 

[purge]

Believe me fed does not want nadal on any day and djoker has beat him four times this year. If someone beat you up four times would you look forward to facing him again??

actually i think fed would have liked to play nadal at the USO a few times. and indoors he doesnt really have much reason to fear nadal given past encounters

the only place he seems to actually dread playing nadal is the FO

 

[dudeski]

how is that barely won it wouldve been barely if he had to fight through the third set in each one of them and, or won IN A THIRD SET TIEBREAK against Tsonga it was cakewalk my friend and woulve been even if he had made Djoko or Rafa

OMG dude I am being sarcastic to show how moronic is this thread. Obviously only the dumbest Fed hater would believe that Federer doesn't deserve this title even thou he owned everyone in 5 very short straight set matches to win it.

 

[RF20Lennon]

OMG dude I am being sarcastic to show how moronic is this thread. Obviously only the dumbest Fed hater would believe that Federer doesn't deserve this title even thou he owned everyone in 5 very short straight set matches to win it.

My bad bro

 

[Mainad]

theres a differnce between outdoor and indoor fed has beaten murray twice at london but i agree with you that murray is better than soderling and TODAY'S delpo not the 2009 us delpo

Murray is far better than both at winning Masters titles and that includes 2009 Delpo. He has beaten Djokovic, Nadal and Federer in various MS going back as far as 2008.

Federer is 2-1 v Murray at the WTF. Murray beat him in Shanghai in 2008 in the round-robin.

 

[dudeski]

My bad bro

All good. I am really happy Fed is playing well again. I hope he owns everyone in WTF again. That would be sweet!

 

[RF20Lennon]

All good. I am really happy Fed is playing well again. I hope he owns everyone in WTF again. That would be sweet!

THAT WOULD BE TRUELY AWESOME!!!!!!!!

 

[RF20Lennon]

Murray is far better than both at winning Masters titles and that includes 2009 Delpo. He has beaten Djokovic, Nadal and Federer in various MS going back as far as 2008.

Federer is 2-1 v Murray at the WTF. Murray beat him in Shanghai in 2008 in the round-robin.

I know i was talking about London lol because london is truely indoor cause in shanghai they have no roof for some reason:?

 

[Mainad]

I know i was talking about London lol because london is truely indoor cause in shanghai they have no roof for some reason:?

Shanghai was played on an indoors hard-court when they staged the Tennis Masters Cup from 2005-2008.

The present stadium has a retractable roof which is closed when the weather is bad as happened sometimes at this year's Masters tournament.

 

[RF20Lennon]

Shanghai was played on an indoors hard-court when they staged the Tennis Masters Cup from 2005-2008.

really? I thought they still had the roof open cause it was the same stadium

 

[Povl Carstensen]

I am sure Tsonga was already defeated before he walked on to the court.

Like he was the two times he defeated him earlier this year? Is this really the best you can come up with?

 

[NadalAgassi]

Murray is far better than both at winning Masters titles and that includes 2009 Delpo. He has beaten Djokovic, Nadal and Federer in various MS going back as far as 2008.

Federer is 2-1 v Murray at the WTF. Murray beat him in Shanghai in 2008 in the round-robin.

The only thing 2009 Del Potro is better at than Murray is playing slam finals, even with the limited example available on Del Potro. Murray has sucked in all 3 of his slam finals, that is undeniable really. Del Potro handled his nerves, and somewhat took advantage of a poor serving Federer who blew the 2nd set, otherwise would have lost. Yes Murray faced more in form opponents in his slam finals, but Del Potro still stepped up and played to his potential which Murray has not done in a slam final yet.

 

[dudeski]

Like he was the two times he defeated him earlier this year? Is this really the best you can come up with?

Come on be nice. It's been a really bad two weeks for Fed haters. Just when they thought Fed is done for good he comes back and owns everyone like that. Just when they thought that younger top 8 guys in their prime like Berdych and Tsonga will now always beat Fed he owns them like it's 2006. Sad sad day for Fed haters everywhere.

 

[Povl Carstensen]

So is Federer an old washed up poor man or not?

Federer is a thirty year old all time great still playing great tennis, allthough differently and not quite as constantly as for instance five years ago. Is that mysterious or hard to grasp, or what is it?

 

[RF20Lennon]

Come on be nice. It's been a really bad two weeks for Fed haters. Just when they thought Fed is done for good he comes back and owns everyone like that. Just when they thought that younger top 8 guys in their prime like Berdych and Tsonga will now always beat Fed he owns them like it's 2006. Sad sad day for Fed haters everywhere.

sad day for fed haters = AMAZING DAYS FOR ME LOL

 

[Colin]

Soderlings 0-6 or something versus Federer indoors.

Yeah, that's an odd one to include because Federer is 16-1 against him overall, which is a worse percentage than Roddick (who we hear ad nauseum is so terrible against Roger) and only slightly better than someone like Ferrer, who hasn't been able to beat Roger in 11 attempts. That French Open match was obviously a fluke in which Soderling played one of his best matches; otherwise, Fed likes to see his name ahead in the draw.

As far as the others, I'm sure Fed never likes to play Nadal or a hot Djokovic, but I think he'd have the edge on this surface. I heard one of the commentators say they made it match what they use in the WTFs in London, and this was Fed's best tournament performance since then, when he was on fire. The low bounce of what one commentator derided as "a dead court" plays to his strengths. We'll see how it goes in London, but I'm hopeful.

 

[Mainad]

The only thing 2009 Del Potro is better at than Murray is playing slam finals, even with the limited example available on Del Potro. Murray has sucked in all 3 of his slam finals, that is undeniable really. Del Potro handled his nerves, and somewhat took advantage of a poor serving Federer who blew the 2nd set, otherwise would have lost. Yes Murray faced more in form opponents in his slam finals, but Del Potro still stepped up and played to his potential which Murray has not done in a slam final yet.

Yes but I was talking about Masters tournaments. I'm well aware of Murray's slam history. The OP seemed to suggest that Soderling and Del Potro would've have been worthier opponents for Federer than Berdych and Tsonga and threw in an ...'even Murray'. In actual fact Murray would have been a far worthier opponent for Federer in an MS final given their history in these tourneys despite the fact that Murray fell to Berdych on this occasion.

 

[NadalAgassi]

Yes but I was talking about Masters tournaments. I'm well aware of Murray's slam history. The OP seemed to suggest that Soderling and Del Potro would've have been worthier opponents for Federer than Berdych and Tsonga and threw in an ...'even Murray'. In actual fact Murray would have been a far worthier opponent for Federer in an MS final given their history in these tourneys despite the fact that Murray fell to Berdych on this occasion.

I guess some people think since Del Potro won his last 2 matches with Federer he is a lock to do so against an older Federer if he returns to top form (silly and quite wrong but that is TW for you).

As for Soderling I dont get how anyone would think Soderling is any threat to Federer on a faster hard court/indoor type surface. History shows he is far from it. Even with all his own firewpower he is simply too slow to handle Federer's own precise, penetrating, and well timed shots on a fast well bouncing court, so once he gets moving he is dead in the points. Plus Soderling seems to have already peaked in 2009-2010. He has struggled in Masters and Slams all year.