T
TennisandMusic
Guest
Fixed for you.
Yep, just the agenda of an objectively correct summation of events. ;-)
Roddick picks Federer as GOAT
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Fixed for you.
Yep, just the agenda of an objectively correct summation of events. ;-)
PSNELKE
Legend
Comedy Gold. :lol:
granddog29
Banned
Lindsay Davenport has also said Venus Williams is the GOAT. What a joke that is (even a bigger joke than someone saying Federer is), but we all know why she has said that.
10is
Professional
granddog29
Banned
Surpassing Roger's achievements would not make anyone the GOAT. Nadal would probably need to win atleast 2 Calendar Slams, possibly 3 to surpass the current GOAT as the new GOAT.
On another note best achievements dont always equal GOAT. Court has by far the best female achievements but nobody considers her the female GOAT. Ability to actually play tennis at a higher level is more important than numbers to alot of people.
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Ecoplex
Guest
Mcenroe will resume assigning GOAThood to Federer as soon as he wins another slam, or during a live broadcast when the other commentators are saying he is GOAT.
The Djokovick comment was from 2011, and before Roger took him out in the semis at RG. Novak has stated that Federer is GOAT after many a match since then.
Murray has only recently called him GOAt. Out of the three, Murray was the the only one who refused to GOATifie Federer until only recently.
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Omega_7000
Legend
Hmmmm..........Lets see who do I go with...A guy sitting on his arse spouting cr@p on an internet forum or a former number 1 and a grand slam winner.......tough one.......................................................NOT!
True fans will remember the h2h I think. The others that don't, don't matter do they? But even casual tennis fans are aware that Pete owned Andre when it mattered most. So as far as people not caring, one that's bad..two, I'm no sure about that.
I'm only making a joke that it doesn't look good for a guy who never beat Federer in 100 tries to say that h2h's don't mean anything.
90's Clay
Banned
You summed it up perfectly. Nothing else needs to be said
SystemicAnomaly
Bionic Poster
Did you watch the same video? He actually does refer to Rafa's advantage/ownage over Roger.
granddog29
Banned
Yes since it is realistic for 26 year old Djokovic who already probably peaked back in 2011 to win another 10-12 slams. :lol:
Dedans Penthouse
Legend
That's ridiculous, you know that.
Court slams count and all of her achievements were before the establishment of the WTA. Even experts have said the competition in the 60s were weak due to lack of depth and tennis wasn't a global sport. Graf 22 slams have more weight than Court 24, and she have holds many tennis records.
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
Interesting and true..but when some act with obsession, all they see are reasons to attack, all because they cannot crown Federer.
pame
Hall of Fame
Nothing like knowing what someone is really thinking because you know them so well - through a television screen
pame
Hall of Fame
Wut! Crown him again? He's already been crowned - 17 times
What really hurts the Fed haters is that they can bring all their arguments from now to Doomsday, they won't remove one single trophy from him, nor one, title, nor even many of the gazillion records he owns. That must truly bite - every post, every thread, every argument.
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THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
They were part of a psychologically "beaten down" generation of Americans. Note, the generation which produced Sampras, Courier and Agassi did not set themselves up like that when playing the slightly older, established champions like Becker and Edberg. Moreover, when Roddick first encountered Federer, no one was referring to him as a GOAT, so what's his excuse for the early encounters?
Roddick only seems to speak in this way as a self-serving means of justifying his utter failure to be a talented player, in a "well he's a GOAT--what could I do?" manner that is the worst sales job of all.
Well said.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Gotta disagree here. To be brutally honest I think you're nuts. Nadal has a MUCH better chance of surpassing the slam record than Djokovic. Djokovic is 11 slams back right now and is playing nowhere near his best tennis. And that's the easy answer.
If there was any agenda then Agassi would never say Federer is better than Sampras since he would boost his legacy by picking Sampras instead. Same with Lendl in 2009, he would never have said this generation tennis are WAY better than them since that would make him look bad. Laver said the same thing about Federer and the standard are higher than during his heyday. I can go on.
There is no agenda, these professional players speaks what they believe, not some fanatical TTW posters on this board.
There is no agenda, these professional players speaks what they believe, not some fanatical TTW posters on this board.
Try to convince the masses and experts from the Tennis Channel that Roger's was never crowned.
sillymonkey
Hall of Fame
exactly right.
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
Agassi is a different person with his own motives, and in case you are new to this party, Agassi hates Sampras, so he will do anything to "hurt" him/take him down a rung. Roddick does not have that relationship with Federer, and due to Roddick being a one-majors wonder, he needs an explanation for his horrid failure to be anything other than a one-major wonder beaten senseless by Federer, hence his Federer butt smooching.
In conclusion, Federer is no GOAT--just Roddick's attempt to save face.
Before the arrival of Federer, Agassi once said Sampras is the best. If he despise Sampras he would never have said that.
Roddick had many tough losses against Federer. Even though he said it's hard to hate Roger since he's such a nice guy, but deep inside he's trouble by not winning many big events due to just one guy. When Roger and Serena won Wimbledon 2012, he congratulate Serena but never mention Federer. You're kidding yourself if you think Roddick has good relationship with Federer. Roger has damaged his career more than Pete damaged Agassi. However both players(Agassi/roddick) speaks their mind...they know who's the greater player between Fed and Sampras so there's no need to lie.
Your last sentence is just another sign of your hate/bitter toward Federer.
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
Think about what you posted: BEFORE. Agassi was never all that respectful of older generations (ex. his mocking behavior in an early match against Connors, and comments made about playing McEnroe), so he was not going to cite any number of older great players. He was simply saying what was some wanted him to say at the time (as in the Federer case), but as he aged, and all of his bitter feelings could not be contained (the end result being his butt-rag of a book), so his hatred for Sampras exploded into making as many negative comments as possible, certainly in light of a period where there was still debate over the status between Sampras & Federer.
Once again, he does not HATE Federer. That is important, as it allows him the emotional freedom to use Federer as his own excuse for career shortcomings, but if the feelings were different, Roddick would be talk about everyone except Federer, or say nothing at all.
Agassi's hatred of sampras goes far beyond career, but image...personality, camps--everything. This is the same buttwipe who once said (early in their careers) Sampras looked "like something that fell out of tree," so his hatred run deep.
Roddick has no such resentment of Federer.
Hate is a strong word, especially referring to one's own countryman. I don't believe Agassi pick Federer the greatest because he hate Sampras. It's more of what he believe who's better because he played them both in their prime. There's no gain in lying plus it's would be embarrassing if people find out that he's dishonest.
If there's any player in the future that's worthy to be put above Federer I think Roddick will be open minded by changing his mind.
If there's any player in the future that's worthy to be put above Federer I think Roddick will be open minded by changing his mind.
He picked him based on career slam and 17 majors. Not because of the level of play. Did you watch the interview?
Your reasoning has flaws. Nadal won vs Federer and still picked him as goat.
So, you have 2 guys, one having winning and one losing h2h both picking Federer.
So, it's not h2h. Roddick said that Nadal has a chance to surpass Fed. So, this means he is basing Fed based on numbers and he is ready to reconsider if Nadal surpasses him.
granddog29
Banned
No it isnt, and no I dont know that. The current mens GOAT has won 2 official Grand Slams, arguably 3 considering his Pro Grand Slam of 1967. So for Nadal to take over the GOAT position from this individual would require 2 or 3 Calendar Grand Slams as well, especialy given the easier conditions of today.
I am a fan of Graf but what was so tough about her competition. Seles stabbed, Navratilova 32 or older, Sanchez the moonballer. Yeah so much tougher competition than Court had, not. The only reason Court is downplayed is she a homophobic bigot, who played before womens tennis was even popular to to the general public, and with no ties to the U.S. Even Graf is married to Agassi so keeps a high profile in America. Most Americans even think Billie Jean King is a greater player than Court, which is a joke of course.
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Deleted member 3771
Guest
who does Thomas Johansson think is goat?
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
If you ever read various articles over the span of Agassi's career (including that "tree" slur), and his own book, it is clear he hates Sampras. This is not McEnroe/Connors, where they have mellowed and seem to respect the other's talents/contribution. Agassi will do anything to bury Sampras' legacy.
That is the reason he picks Federer over Sampras.
who does Thomas Johansson think is goat?
I don't know, but for sure a lot guys from the 90s like Bruguera, Santoro, Goran, Courier have said Roger is better than Sampras, not just Agassi. The agenda driven is bs. Anyone who pick Fed is an agenda driven. lol
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
The most telling statement was from Jack Kramer, great player in his own right, mastermind of the professional tour in the 1950s/1960s and probably the most influential man in tennis history.
Kramer grew up idolising Don Budge, and called him the GOAT. He kept this opinion for many, many decades (through the rise and fall of Gonzales, Rosewall, Laver, Borg and Sampras, to mention only the greatest who he saw).
Yet, a few years before his death, he changed his mind from Budge to Federer.
No man's opinion is foolproof, yet if there is one man I would trust to rank the GOAT above all others, it would be Jack Kramer.
And guess what? In the end, he picked Federer.
Kramer grew up idolising Don Budge, and called him the GOAT. He kept this opinion for many, many decades (through the rise and fall of Gonzales, Rosewall, Laver, Borg and Sampras, to mention only the greatest who he saw).
Yet, a few years before his death, he changed his mind from Budge to Federer.
No man's opinion is foolproof, yet if there is one man I would trust to rank the GOAT above all others, it would be Jack Kramer.
And guess what? In the end, he picked Federer.
TennisCanada1
Professional
That's a little biased since Roddick has been spanked by Fed on numerous occasions, but Fed is the GOAT anyways.
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Deleted member 3771
Guest
Fed should be better than Sampras after all he is using modern string technology and a modern racquet. Mid 30's, 5 year retired Sampras also said he hit the ball better with the modern strings and racquet than in his prime, so a prime Sampras with the modern stuff would also be better than the prime version of himself. He even gave Fed a sv master class in Macau with Fed's racquet and the new string technology.
Courier and mac say Sampras is the best grass/fast hc court player ever, and courier says that Rafa has the best forehand ever.
10is
Professional
ScottleeSV
Hall of Fame
Fed is the greatest, and until Nadal/Djokovic can match his 17 slams, that isn't going to change.
h2h inferiority you say?
Nadal's forehead up high to Federer's backhand is about the only reason the score is 17-12 and not something ridiculous like 22-7.
h2h inferiority you say?
Nadal's forehead up high to Federer's backhand is about the only reason the score is 17-12 and not something ridiculous like 22-7.
henryshli
Semi-Pro
of course he is the GOAT
17 GS
302 weeks
even without mentionning all his other impressive records, these 2 figures shut everyone's mouth
so far the title of GOAT is undisputed.
We'll see in 3 or 4 years what Nadal did...
I actually think the consecutive semis in slams is more impressive
henryshli
Semi-Pro
It takes a long time to become goat worthy and therefore Jmac changing his mind frequently is unfounded. Someone doesnt become GOAT or stop being a goat over one match.
henryshli
Semi-Pro
If Pete hits the ball better with modern tec then so would everyone else. How do you measure a prime Sampras vs a prime Sampras?
topher
Hall of Fame
Roddick's opinion is a solid one, but it's just one - much less biased than someone like Agassi for instance. Coming from a Rafa fan, I agree with him as far as if I was forced to name a GOAT.
I smell hyperbole. JMac's never changed his opinion because of one match or from one to another lol. If he did that sort of thing he would've jumped off Rafa's bandwagon after Wimby this year, which he didn't. JMac's opinion is just as, if not more valid, than Roddick's. But again, it's just one opinion.
I smell hyperbole. JMac's never changed his opinion because of one match or from one to another lol. If he did that sort of thing he would've jumped off Rafa's bandwagon after Wimby this year, which he didn't. JMac's opinion is just as, if not more valid, than Roddick's. But again, it's just one opinion.
THUNDERVOLLEY
G.O.A.T.
True, but it is clutching at straws to pile on Roddick's opinion as some last ditch "see? he says its Federer, so there!" type of argument, as if his was the final word, while ignoring others with a different opnion.
Again, I thnk Roddick is trying to a "well, what could I do? Federer is the GOAT, so that's why i'm a one slam wonder," whch is a poor excuse; he did not stop Nadal or other majors winners from capturing their titles.
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monfed
Guest
WOW that's a fascinating story, thanks for sharing it. Had no idea, Kramer picked Fed as GOAT, that says it all, Kramer would have nothing to gain from crowning Fed as GOAT and the fact that he was from Budge's time which is earlier than Laver and the rest of the greats, tells me all I need to know.
But wait....Kramer has an agenda because he pick Federer. Any player not name Federer is a true/honest opinion. Vast majority of the ex-players have an agenda because they picked Federer. Haha!
topher
Hall of Fame
Roddick likes Fed, but he's not the type of guy to try to save face. He's much more likely to be self-deprecating. I can't read Andy's mind, but I'm pretty sure he's just honestly stating things as he sees them right now. If he thought he deserved more than one slam he probably wouldn't have said "I'm the worst player in this room." at the ATP No. 1 celebration, where he was neither the only 1 slam wonder but there was actually a player who hadn't even won a slam.
That said, I agree with your first paragraph as this is far from the final word. Its one word among many, and the story's still being written (by both Rafa and Roger), so arguing over the ending already is quite silly. Honestly, any people trying to assert otherwise are probably counter-trolling out of the bitterness that TDK's threads have instilled in them and aren't even serious.
D
Deleted member 743561
Guest
One could fault him for stating the obvious, but... he's not wrong.
