Rule Advice?

[2ManyAces]

So today I went to watch my friend play a consolation match in a USTA Florida Junior Local Tourney. He was playing another good player, so whenever my friend would win a good point he would yell "C'mon!!!"

It was like 6-5 (8 game pro set) and the opponents dad went and called a line judge. Apparently, the dad complained my friend was celebrating obnoxiously and was whispering "c'mon" after missed serves. According to the dad, this was unsportsmanlike conduct, and the line judge proceeded to lecture my friend, in the middle of a game, before even giving a warning to my friend. And this is all after the opponent was banging his racquet on the ground, without receiving a warning at all, let alone a point penalty. What should have happened here?

Was the dad allowed to call a judge, or is it the players duty to take control of the situation? Thanks. :-|

 

[Fuji]

From my experience parents shouldn't be getting involved. The player should be calling the ref on change over if they want one. Plus, it sounds like he wasn't really in position to call one, ( banging rackets and being an overall unpleasant player). I honestly don't care what my opponents do during that match, as long as they aren't being hostile towards me. =/

-Fuji

 

[papa]

Could also depend on the role(s) the "Dad" plays. For instance he might be the kids coach, might be an official or serve in some other capacity at the meet and so forth. Maybe in these "other" capacities he has the right to call an official - not quite sure. Generally is the player who is charged with this responsibility but maybe for whatever reasons, they modified the ruling on this particular tournament.

I could certainly relate many rather questionable things I've seen at tournaments - just when you've seen everything something else pops up.

 

[anchorage]

I suppose Dad can do what he likes; the umpire's in charge of the game & should have ignored him (as he obviously didn't see it as a problem). It's also nothing to do with the linesman! The umpire should have told the linesman to sit down & just call the lines.

 

[larry10s]

there are alot of usta knowlegeble people in this section
adut and league play
you may want to post ovet there
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/forumdisplay.php?f=35

 

[tennis_balla]

A rowing umpire should NEVER lecture during a game, only on changeover and shouldn't take the advice of another parent. Also, a parents role is to watch, cheer and to put it bluntly...stfu. They are not allowed to get involved in the match, which this parent did.
The umpire should of came over, watched the match and make his own assessment and not take someone else's which was, right or wrong, biased.

To me this wasn't a certified USPTA official and if it was then he/she was an incompetent one. What your friend can do is write an email to his section stating what happened and complain. Thats what I would do.

 

[papa]

I suppose Dad can do what he likes; the umpire's in charge of the game & should have ignored him (as he obviously didn't see it as a problem). It's also nothing to do with the linesman! The umpire should have told the linesman to sit down & just call the lines.

Well, unless its a final you "probably" will not see a dedicated umpire or line judges. Even at a final, there generally aren't more than a few lines people + umpire.

When there are disputes, its not unusual for a "roving" umpire to stay with that particular match until its completion but they might also just stay a few games and move on. Had a dedicated umpire been calling the match, they would not have listened to any "outside" interference.

 

[fuzz nation]

A rowing umpire should NEVER lecture during a game, only on changeover and shouldn't take the advice of another parent. Also, a parents role is to watch, cheer and to put it bluntly...stfu. They are not allowed to get involved in the match, which this parent did.
The umpire should of came over, watched the match and make his own assessment and not take someone else's which was, right or wrong, biased.

To me this wasn't a certified USPTA official and if it was then he/she was an incompetent one. What your friend can do is write an email to his section stating what happened and complain. Thats what I would do.

Very much agree.

One thing that USTA officials need to manage at events is the outside influence on matches from overbearing friends and family. From the sounds of things, this official blew it by letting an onlooker talk him or her into disrupting the match and lecturing a player when there wasn't any conduct happening that could be penalized under the rules. That sucks!

 

[papa]

FN, I know the USTA is making a very serious effort to get and train officials. Many are very good and in addition to knowing the rules, they have a good understanding of the game and sports in general. However, its my observation, that an equal number are not very good at what they are hired to do and don't give the appearance that they either play, or have ever played this sport or are that familiar with competition.

I have not been very impressed with this new batch of officials as a "group". Do they know the rules, yes, probably but many just don't understand the flow of the game. I'll give you a couple of "for instances" which I observed just recently at a tournament.

In one case an official got in a players way during the playing of a point by trying to leave the court. She thought nothing of it and proceeded to leave through a door in the back middle of a court and even left the gate open on route to interrupting another match in an enjoining court. I happened to be connected with the player involved with the point and was just amazed at her actions. As is the case with most USTA tournaments there wasn't an umpire involved.

In another instance, involving another one of my players, a ball was bounced out of the court. In this instance the official proceeded to lecture the players to keep the ball in the court and wasn't interested in having anyone locate the ball which ended up in a hedge. Sure, its not unusual to finish off a match with just two balls but this was a little different and could have easily been corrected by a spectator during the changeover.

I'm also getting annoyed by seeing some of the officials just hanging together, police officer style. This particular event had maybe 6 - 8 officials and you couldn't notice little groups of two or three outside the courts.

Now, before everyone get excited, I have a very good friend who is an official but at least she is very fit, stays totally involved with the matches I've seen, knows the flow of the game because she is a player as well, is very professional, etc. She was until recently a traveling official (mostly lines) at the professional level. She now help in many of the higher ranked USTA local tournaments - mostly kids now.

I guess I'm really getting bothered more and more these days by seeing "some" officials totally unfit. Some of these folks are so out of shape they resort to kicking stray balls, water bottles, whatever to someone else because they apparently can't even bend over and pick it up themselves - sad.

 

[TennisCoachFLA]

Very much agree.

One thing that USTA officials need to manage at events is the outside influence on matches from overbearing friends and family. From the sounds of things, this official blew it by letting an onlooker talk him or her into disrupting the match and lecturing a player when there wasn't any conduct happening that could be penalized under the rules. That sucks!

Yup, only the player should be allowed to get an official. The official should have explained that to dad and gone about his business.

 

[5263]

Very much agree.

One thing that USTA officials need to manage at events is the outside influence on matches from overbearing friends and family. From the sounds of things, this official blew it by letting an onlooker talk him or her into disrupting the match and lecturing a player when there wasn't any conduct happening that could be penalized under the rules. That sucks!

I think you guys have covered how it is according to current rules nicely, but IMO it should be different. Parents should not be locked out to let kids cheat, bully and be awful sports. Seems anyone who sees bad behavior of any kind, should be able to alert the proper authority; the authorities could then watch from close or far to make the official determination.
IMO you would see better behavior by everyone over time.

 

[papa]

I think you guys have covered how it is according to current rules nicely, but IMO it should be different. Parents should not be locked out to let kids cheat, bully and be awful sports. Seems anyone who sees bad behavior of any kind, should be able to alert the proper authority; the authorities could then watch from close or far to make the official determination.
IMO you would see better behavior by everyone over time.

True but this could be a very slippery slope. In many tournaments its not unusual to be using over 20 courts and there just isn't funding available to the event organizers to cover everything. I don't know what the ratio is at the moment, probably varies, but its difficult to adequately oversee more than 4 courts at once.

I'm certainly not in favor of charging more for these kids to play in tournaments and the cost of having officials there is a major budget item. Most sports use a lot of volunteer people for umpire functions - maybe its time we consider this also at least up to certain levels.

 

[NoQuarter]

In another instance, involving another one of my players, a ball was bounced out of the court. In this instance the official proceeded to lecture the players to keep the ball in the court and wasn't interested in having anyone locate the ball which ended up in a hedge. Sure, its not unusual to finish off a match with just two balls but this was a little different and could have easily been corrected by a spectator during the changeover.

Huh? This is crazy, unless someone intentionally hits the ball out on purpose in a fit of rage, but it does not sound like this is what happened. Did somebody hit an overhead that bounced out and the official thought that it was unnessesary? What was the lecture based on?

 

[papa]

Huh? This is crazy, unless someone intentionally hits the ball out on purpose in a fit of rage, but it does not sound like this is what happened. Did somebody hit an overhead that bounced out and the official thought that it was unnessesary? What was the lecture based on?

Yes, happened on an overhead which is what I happen to encourage my players to do when they get the chance. I don't want most overheads to come back so you can either take the angle approach or the over the back fence approach. Either is ok with me. The nice thing about over the back fence arrangement is that the initial bounce has to be inside the service line to even make it over the fence.

If the ball was hit out of the court in a "hissy fit", I'd be all over the player - don't like that and can provide some "colorfull" examples if necessary.

Not wanting anyone to get the ball seemed more of a little power trip along with telling the players to keep the ball "in the court".

The officials at this tournament gave the appearance of being from the home - not too spry and totally unfit to officiate a tournament - one had a cane. I'm not saying all officials are like this but it seems we're seeing a bunch of new ones that aren't quite with it, IMO. However, I'm seeing more and more little "power struggles" out there realizing some players can be difficult to deal with - on all levels.

I was at a major college event recently involving many of the top Div 1 school in the country and I saw a couple of officials who just seem to beg the players to challenge them. One in particular (chair umpire) seemed to create problems wherever she went. Every match she was involved with there were problems with the players. She would not get out of the chair and look at marks; over ruled calls when she IMO, was not in a position to see them and not asked; was totally inconsistent with calling out the score which was wrong a good percentage of the time; etc. Most are very diligent about their duties, some are absolutely awful.

 

[5263]

She would not get out of the chair and look at marks;

Match on clay?

 

[papa]

Match on clay?

Yes it was.

 

[fuzz nation]

Seems anyone who sees bad behavior of any kind, should be able to alert the proper authority; the authorities could then watch from close or far to make the official determination.

Very much agree (again!), but it sounds to me as though this official got hooked into overstepping. I don't want to imply that everyone in a match should act like a complete turd, witch, etc. as long as their play is within the rules. I don't tolerate bad behavior when I'm in the role of a high school coach and don't think it should be tolerated, but this example we're chewing over sounds too mild for an official to get into it.

It's great for an official to give more of a soft lecture that's along the lines of polite guidance, but this person stopped play in the middle of a game with nothing to penalize. That little conference should have happened during the change of ends.