"Serve doc" offers "some of what I've learned"...

[Serve Doc]

It's all in the MPH HD download. Style is not a problem unless it impedes fundamentals of technique and timing then it must be dealt with. It's more about some coaches trying to seem so educated with all the complex terminology in efforts impress more than anything. Not my thing to get overly complex because I don't find it effective.It doesn't have to be presented that way. If you ever worked with players who barely speak English, terminology is pretty useless but through creativity you can still make great progress. Great challenge for coaches to deal with which I contend with daily.

 

[EP1998]

What are good drills to:
- improve racket speed
- extend the hitting arm more at contact (for someone with a slight bend in their arm at contact point)

Thanks!

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

Finally digested the entire MPH video, great stuff. I benefited from the stance section, confirming I am in a good place there. Hitting up instead of forward was great advice and something I need to work on. And, as you mentioned after seeing my sample, a more loose swing. The landing in the court after a good first serve is great advice too, new to me, I will try it next match.

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

Am trying the Serve Doc's "Pro grip" on the serve which is different than Continental grip; more towards the Eastern backhand side. Getting good results with this grip.

What is the key to flattening it out more with this grip? Once in a while I get a huge flat serve but most times it is spin. Spin is great but I also want to mix in flat with this grip.

Do I just need to focus on pronating more severely in order to flatten it out? Perhaps imagine hitting on top of the ball?

 

[teachestennis]

Many PHDs earn their title based on one myopic thesis and parlay it into selling themselves as experts in everything. that makes money...quite common and enough said on that.

It is basic science and those who can't understand it treat it like it's a religion or just enjoy giving their sermon. Not as complicated as we'd like to think and keeping it simple whenever possible works if it is effective methods in use.

Pat, I always thought your serve work was excellent and still do. I introduced it to 5263 when he had introduced his "Serve Code" to me in late 2007. All I can say is that I still find conceptual modes of teaching I learned from excellent serve coaches such as yourself useful, but over time, as I decided to test his "Serve Code" from Congruent Tennis, I found it to be the most effective and complete way to teach the serve. That does not mean I don't use concepts or drills such as the cylinder concept I learned from you or other things such as throwing rackets over the fence into the grass like a tomahawk, or other cool things that support the elements of the serve code. As possibly our sport's first tennis instruction historian, I have to test things. I praise and mention your work in my book which I sent excerpts out over the years to hundreds of coaches to get feedback from. My hope is that the great serve coaches such as you and Chuck Tomlin (5263) work closer together to find common ground on concepts such as the fundamentals. My new book (taking it to Indian Wells March 4-9th) proves that players OVER a century ago, despite having one foot on the ground at contact, pretty much understood the concepts we use today to teach with. I hope you and Chuck have a good conversation on a call and we seek to support and simplify grassroots instruction in a better way than has ever been done before. Here is preview of my book. https://www.congruenttennis.com/pos...-to-play-your-best-tennis-preview-ships-nov-1

 

[5263]

Am trying the Serve Doc's "Pro grip" on the serve which is different than Continental grip; more towards the Eastern backhand side. Getting good results with this grip.

What is the key to flattening it out more with this grip? Once in a while I get a huge flat serve but most times it is spin. Spin is great but I also want to mix in flat with this grip.

Do I just need to focus on pronating more severely in order to flatten it out? Perhaps imagine hitting on top of the ball?

and why do you desire to flatten out your serve?

 

[Better_Call_Raul]

and why do you desire to flatten out your serve?

With this new grip (Serve Doc calls it the "Pro Grip" -- it is in between the Continental and Eastern BH grip) I am occasionally hitting 90 mph serves.
But it is by accident. Most of the time, the serves are 60-70 mph.

Note that with this new grip, all serves, even the fast serves, do have a significant degree of slice. It is great.

Want to be able to mix up the pace. With intent. Be able to "flatten" it out.

Suspect the issue relates to proper pronation and Internal Shoulder Rotation (ISR). I also observe that I will sometimes shift the grip
midway thru the service motion and end up back towards the Continental grip. Not good. I want to finish the serve motion with the exact same
Pro Grip. There should be no reason for the grip to change during the motion if you trust the ISR/pronation.

This Serve Doc student also had a "grip slip" issue. Grip slipping from Pro Grip back into Continental.
Was not getting the right leverage angle at contact.

Pat is talking about a true conti grip. Place your index knuckle on bevel 2, (see top X below which is the first bevel to the right of the flat part), and your heel pad (see the bottom X below, which is the top flat part) on bevel 1 (2-1 grip).


A lot of people use a weak conti grip (2-2 grip) without even realizing it.

Harry

 

[tennis_balla]

As the Serve Doc, inventor of the A.P. Belt training system of products and having written and produced a multitude of instructional productions including 2 dozen under the Bollettieri brand plus 40 years of teaching....here's what I've learned most.
1) Most coaches don't know what they don't know and may never know
2) Many coaches try to impress you with sophisticated terminology to earn your confidence and trust but it rarely translates into practical application for students...they are only impressing themselves and not their players in the end.
3) Coaches are far too focused on minuscule style details like they're dissecting a frog in Biology class and can't differentiate style from meaningful fundamental components.
4) Coaches tend to be the LEAST coachable of anyone ironically as we always emphasize coach ability to our players....it's often because of insecure egos and afraid of being exposed for what they don't know
5) Coaches limit themselves to teaching based on the limits of what they accomplished as players and don't seek mentorship from those who can take them beyond their experiences
6) The industry is stuck in the old days of teaching sequence style like motor drive pics from magazines of the 70's and 80's. Conceptual methods work far better for many reasons and crosses language barriers best as well as young players who don't understand more complex terminology.
7) Just because you post some tips on youtube or publish your thoughts doesn't buy immediate credibility as an expert. Anyone can do that good or bad. Players need to figure out what is legitimate and solid instruction and learn to filter out the rest.

So, while I understand this platform and the rush most get from dissecting details to the nano level degree, it does n't help you improve yourself or help others to speak that way when making players. BTW, update on 2 of my proteges featured on my youtube channel who I started at 9...Top is in his second year playing #1 for Princeton since he arrived and Sany is starting at Harvard in her 4th year....Both were taught conceptual methodology

#3 I have been saying for years, you sure you didn’t steal it from me?

Big difference between style and fundamentals but for some reason it either gets lumped together as technique or people can’t differentiate between the two. This is a huge mistake many coaches make.