should I be complaining?

[randomname]

alright, so the mixed playoffs are starting this weekend and our team's lineup has just come out. now, im really not trying to brag, but im definetly the best 3.5 on the team (its shown in workouts and ive beaten all the other 3.5s pretty handily in match play, and in a practice match me and a 3.5 beat a 3.5 lady and a 4.0 guy) anyway, I got absolutely screwed over in the regular season, everyone got two matches, mine were against the last place team and the first place team. the last place one was borderline boring, I think my partner could have just won the match by herself, and my line got defaulted against the 1st place team. now, the lineup come out for the playoffs, we have four matches, im only getting to play one match, while six other players are getting two matches, so should I be *****ing about this to the captain? also, other than the captain, I came to more practices than anyone else.

 

[OrangeOne]

alright, so the mixed playoffs are starting this weekend and our team's lineup has just come out. now, im really not trying to brag, but im definetly the best 3.5 on the team (its shown in workouts and ive beaten all the other 3.5s pretty handily in match play, and in a practice match me and a 3.5 beat a 3.5 lady and a 4.0 guy) anyway, I got absolutely screwed over in the regular season, everyone got two matches, mine were against the last place team and the first place team. the last place one was borderline boring, I think my partner could have just won the match by herself, and my line got defaulted against the 1st place team. now, the lineup come out for the playoffs, we have four matches, im only getting to play one match, while six other players are getting two matches, so should I be *****ing about this to the captain? also, other than the captain, I came to more practices than anyone else.

Sounds like someone had to get only 1 match, and they chose you. Life sucks sometimes, but if the captain is a good captain the decision has been made and that's that. Maybe you could not 'complain' as much as 'inquire' as to what the thinking was?

 

[Mad iX]

Yeah, I dunno how your relationship is with your captain, but asking nicely would be the way to go imo. If he doesn't give you a proper reason, then make a complaint.

 

[Cruzer]

It appears the captain is not as impressed with your tennis skills as you are or he may be playing his friends ahead of others. It is the risk of playing on a team especially when you are not the captian of the team. Your best option is to have a conversation with the captain about the lineup for the playoffs and if you are not satisfied with the outcome then tell him t p-off and find another team next season, preferably one where you get to play against the team you are on now.

 

[JavierLW]

alright, so the mixed playoffs are starting this weekend and our team's lineup has just come out. now, im really not trying to brag, but im definetly the best 3.5 on the team (its shown in workouts and ive beaten all the other 3.5s pretty handily in match play, and in a practice match me and a 3.5 beat a 3.5 lady and a 4.0 guy) anyway, I got absolutely screwed over in the regular season, everyone got two matches, mine were against the last place team and the first place team. the last place one was borderline boring, I think my partner could have just won the match by herself, and my line got defaulted against the 1st place team. now, the lineup come out for the playoffs, we have four matches, im only getting to play one match, while six other players are getting two matches, so should I be *****ing about this to the captain? also, other than the captain, I came to more practices than anyone else.

I think you should mention it.

I dont know you, and you could be giving us the totally wrong impression, but I know this:

I am a captain, and I actually dont mind when players tell me their opinion as long as they are not selfish and dont cry about it. (although I try not to find players who are crybabys)

It actually helps me when I get other ideas from people, and if someone cant play with a particular partner, or they are not happy with their playing time, it's good to know that.

Besides, maybe they think you are really good, and they are saving you for the next level of the playoffs or something (which would be dumb in my opinion). Maybe if you express your interest in playing these games, and THEY think you are the best player they may have to change their mind.

Anyway I think you have a right to say something. I know it's a team and everyone has to be team players, but it's kind of like a business as well. You paid money to be on that team and obviously invested a lot of time so you should let them know if you are unhappy with something.

 

[tennis-n-sc]

Some great comments. Talk to the captain without the whine. Mixed can be a very emotional combination. It may not be your play. I've captained mixed teams more than I care to admit and every season, a lady will come to me, in confidence( of course ) and ask not to be put with a certain male player. In your case, hard to say. But if the captain is a good, he'll be up front with you. If I was going to playoffs, I'd want my best players on the courts as often as possible.

 

[bleach]

Just remember it for next season and move to another team. For me, it's all about playing time. If I can't get it from one team, I'll find another one.

 

[JLyon]

Random are you a 3.5 or 4.0? You complained about some ringers awhile back after stating your a good 4.0 and partner is a strong 3.0? Just curious since your story changed but the level stayed the same?
Best advice for you would be to find another team or start your own team up rather than ******* and moaning.

 

[randomname]

well, I really dont think it is that im not as good as I think I am (I try to have a realistic opinion about my abilities) just because ive beaten the other three 3.5s pretty handily. now, if the captain doesnt think im as good as I really am is another story entirely. and about the ringer, no I didint play him, it just seemed easiar to say it was me because I didnt really want people saying something along the lines of "well, you dont know because it wasnt you on the court so you cant give an accurate measure of his skill" (I have been told that)

 

[randomname]

also, this isnt really on topic but I was just wanting everyone here's opinion, my captain keeps going on about how the 4.0 man/3.0 woman combination is SOOOO much stronger than the 3.5/3.5 team, and I really dont buy it, is that the general consensus here or does everyone else see the advantage of a partner who isnt a liability

 

[OrangeOne]

also, this isnt really on topic but I was just wanting everyone here's opinion, my captain keeps going on about how the 4.0 man/3.0 woman combination is SOOOO much stronger than the 3.5/3.5 team, and I really dont buy it, is that the general consensus here or does everyone else see the advantage of a partner who isnt a liability

On this one, I completely disagree with your captain and then some. Having a big discrepancy like that, and having the weaker player be the woman to start with (and as we know, grade for grade the sexes aren't equal anyways), really doesn't make sense. That woman is going to see an awful lot of shots, and the guy is going to run until he bleeds....

 

[Cindysphinx]

I know the right answer, and Javier has given it.

Still, I absolutely hate it when players question my decision. Because it puts me in a bind.

If you're not playing, or you're not getting the partner you want, there is a reason for this. It is either (1) other players are better, or (2) your prospective partner doesn't wish to play with you or perhaps more charitably feels strongly that she'll play better with someone else.

So what am I supposed to say to these inquiries? The truth hurts, and in the case of needing to accommodate another player's preference, the remarks were made to me in confidence.

Can't people just trust me or start their own team if they don't like my line-up/ partnering decisions?

Cindy -- who has one player who always has some problem with partner assignments and is just about to reply "YOU CAN'T PLAY WITH SO-AND-SO BECAUSE THE OTHERS ARE YOUNGER THAN YOU, FASTER THAN YOU, STRONGER THAN YOU, AND THE PARTNER YOU WANT HAS SAID SHE PREFERS SOMEONE ELSE, AND I CAN'T PLAY WITH YOU EITHER BECAUSE YOU CAN'T HIT HIGH VOLLEYS OR OVERHEADS SO WE WOULD GET KILLED ON COURT ONE!!!!!!!!"

 

[SB]

also, this isnt really on topic but I was just wanting everyone here's opinion, my captain keeps going on about how the 4.0 man/3.0 woman combination is SOOOO much stronger than the 3.5/3.5 team, and I really dont buy it, is that the general consensus here or does everyone else see the advantage of a partner who isnt a liability

Generally, yes, I think being closer together OR having the woman be the higher-rated player is best.

In specifics, though, it depends on the situation. The 3.0 woman might be at the top of her level, and more of a 3.5, making that particular pair pretty strong.

The year we went to sectionals at 8.0, we had two 4.5 guy/3.5 woman combinations that were awesome. The 4.5s were 4.5s, but toward the top of their level. The women were (computer) rated 3.5s, but they moved up after that season and have been very solid 4.0s ever since. So, there wasn't truly that large of a discrepancy between the 4.5 and 3.5 ...

 

[tennis-n-sc]

Generally, yes, I think being closer together OR having the woman be the higher-rated player is best.

In specifics, though, it depends on the situation. The 3.0 woman might be at the top of her level, and more of a 3.5, making that particular pair pretty strong.

The year we went to sectionals at 8.0, we had two 4.5 guy/3.5 woman combinations that were awesome. The 4.5s were 4.5s, but toward the top of their level. The women were (computer) rated 3.5s, but they moved up after that season and have been very solid 4.0s ever since. So, there wasn't truly that large of a discrepancy between the 4.5 and 3.5 ...

Exactly. Every case is different, but I have seen some very strong mixed combinations just as you have described. Putting a 4.0 guy with a passive 3.0 gal that is mediocore is asking for trouble but putting a seasoned 4.0 guy (ready to move to 4.5) with an agressive 3.0 gal (ready to move up 3.5) is a sure win. Unless they run up against a better 4.0 guy with a better 3.0 gal.

 

[randomname]

I know the right answer, and Javier has given it.

Still, I absolutely hate it when players question my decision. Because it puts me in a bind.

If you're not playing, or you're not getting the partner you want, there is a reason for this. It is either (1) other players are better, or (2) your prospective partner doesn't wish to play with you or perhaps more charitably feels strongly that she'll play better with someone else.

So what am I supposed to say to these inquiries? The truth hurts, and in the case of needing to accommodate another player's preference, the remarks were made to me in confidence.

Can't people just trust me or start their own team if they don't like my line-up/ partnering decisions?

Cindy -- who has one player who always has some problem with partner assignments and is just about to reply "YOU CAN'T PLAY WITH SO-AND-SO BECAUSE THE OTHERS ARE YOUNGER THAN YOU, FASTER THAN YOU, STRONGER THAN YOU, AND THE PARTNER YOU WANT HAS SAID SHE PREFERS SOMEONE ELSE, AND I CAN'T PLAY WITH YOU EITHER BECAUSE YOU CAN'T HIT HIGH VOLLEYS OR OVERHEADS SO WE WOULD GET KILLED ON COURT ONE!!!!!!!!"

as far as im concerned this is a completely different situation, theres no question of whether ive been screwed over or not, and the question is if I should make a big deal about it. because EVEN IF she was trying to be fair with how the lineups were being made for the playoffs, I would be in two matches to make up for the one I didnt get during the regular season.

 

[Cindysphinx]

What was your win/loss record in matches compared to your teammates? Maybe they were killing strong opponents.

How do you know your partner hasn't voiced objections to playing with you?

Were any "guaranteed play deals" made before the season started as part of the recruiting process?

As far as being in two matches to make up for what happened in the regular season, I wouldn't play you in the playoffs for that reason. If I were in the playoffs, I would play my strongest players, period. Nor would I consider practice attendance.

But hey, if you really want to know, go ahead and ask. Just be prepared for an answer you might not like. A better use of energy, IMHO, would be to start thinking about starting your own team. And if you do, you should feel free to invite this captain's players. Maybe they are unhappy too.

 

[Old_Crow]

Can't people just trust me or start their own team if they don't like my line-up/ partnering decisions?

Sorry, that is a poor attitude in my opinion. A tennis team captaincy is not an authoritarian dictatorship, more along the lines of a stewardship of the TEAM's best interest (having fun and plaing well). If you have the wherewithall to be making the decisions then you should have enough confidence in them to discuss them openly. Sure there's always backchannel chatter due to personalities but to just say "shut up and trust me or find another team" is not being much of a captain in my opinion.

If I was in the original poster's position, I would respectfully inquire directly with the captain in person, not email or telephone if possible. "I noticed I'm only scheduled for one match, what's up?". I can think of any number of legitimate responses. If the captain said "tust me, don't question me, etc, etc" and got defensive, that's when I'd start looking for a team with a captain more confident in his planning.

Some of this may be because the team(s) I play on are in a private club environment and I see these people and play with them socially 4-5 times a week. If someone takes your 'just trust me tact', they will likely face a mass exodus from their team as everyone will soon hear about it and teams are very fluid due to many teams being present within the club.

Even then, I think it's just a poor attitute. I would never take that approach with an employee or one of my kids much less a teammate in a recreational pasttime...

YMMV

 

[Cindysphinx]

Fair enough.

This did come up once. I told the player she hadn't played because others are stronger.

It was awkward. She didn't reply to me (she had asked by e-mail). What did she expect me to say? She left the following season, and now she wants to return but I don't have a slot.

Really. I think I run a terrific team. Players rarely leave. People seem happy. Our roster is full, with all 19 players returning even though many have told me they have been approached by other teams.

If they are not happy, I would far, far prefer that they find a situation that suits them better if they don't trust me to do what is best for the team rather than confront me over difficult decisions I must make. Nothing personal, but if someone thinks they're getting screwed so badly that it is worth asking about, then it is probably a poor fit.

The fact that this is just for fun distinguishes it from a professional setting where people do ask awkward questions like "Why wasn't I promoted?" It is just for fun. If you don't trust your captain in a fun league, you lose nothing by going elsewhere.

As for whether my team is autocratic . . . I guess so. I solicit opinions when I find it helpful, but that's it. I think the players are so happy that the team is organized, the policies are clear and the decisions are fair that they stay.

 

[Old_Crow]

Fair enough.

This did come up once. I told the player she hadn't played because others are stronger.

It was awkward. She didn't reply to me (she had asked by e-mail). What did she expect me to say? She left the following season, and now she wants to return but I don't have a slot.

Yes, I agree with you here. If they ask, they better be prepared for the answer. If they can't accept the answer regardless of its merit, then they should move along. Ex:

"because the other's are stronger" - then they need to practice or move because the captain is actively building the strongest team possible. Maybe they should be on a more social-oriented team where everyone plays the same amount, etc.

or

"because I'm the captain and I make the decisions" - then they should accept that they will have no input or move along to a team that suits them better.

The point being - they will never know unless they question the captain.

Where I took exception was the blanket position of not wanting questions. I like to play/socialize with people able to give & take and would never presume that teammates had nothing to offer in the decision-making process. What if the people asking questions had detailed knowledge of the weaknesses of the other team? I don't think I would like captaining a team of sheep where everything flowed in one direction but that's personal bias.

 

[Cindysphinx]

I hear ya, I do.

My attitude may be colored by the fact that one person *always and without fail* questions the line-up, court assignment, and/or partnering. If an e-mail goes out to 18 people, I know exactly who will be the one to ask my "thinking" in putting together the line-up. I don't want to share my "thinking," as much of it isn't for public consumption.

I have one player I consult with regularly about line-ups and pairings, as I think she has good judgment. If someone wants to shoot me an e-mail with some analysis or inside information, that's welcome also. There also have been times when I have done something unusual with the line-up (swapped partners, changed court assignments). I send the affected players an explanation of such unusual decisions; the replies are always "Whatever you think is fine by me."

It's the *whining* that I can't handle, and asking "How come you're playing her instead of me" falls into that category. 'Cause deep down, they already know the answer.

 

[Old_Crow]

It's the *whining* that I can't handle, and asking "How come you're playing her instead of me" falls into that category. 'Cause deep down, they already know the answer.

LOL...

...mea culpa please for the following remark...

...but I think this is much more prevalent with women's teams. My wife has been a captain and I've been listening to my mother's stories about the teams she's captained for 20+ years. Sometimes it's suprisingly horrific, crying fits, quitting the club, having the club pro's intervene ad infinitum. I think men's 'manly' ego probably helps moderate this on men's teams.

Golden Rule and all, I'd have a sit down with your problem child. However, that's very easy for me to say from the internet armchair quarterback position. Much tougher in the real world... Good luck!

 

[randomname]

hmm, where to start. first off, the captain is my partner, so I dont think she has problems playing with me. also, she gave me a wishy-washy answer about if I'll be playing in the tournament AT ALL (hasnt made the lineup for tomorrow yet). its hard to gauge ability based on the regular season because we only lost two lines the whole season and they were both with 4.0/3.0 combinations so not people I'm competing against for playtime anyway (in the captain's mind, we have the two lines of 4.0/3.0 out there to win, and MAYBE one 3.5/3.5 line as a crapshoot so she can rest one 4.0/3.0 team). and I dont even mind how much she plays the 4.0/3.0 teams because they have very strong 3.0 women. but anyway, the only thing im really upset about is that I had to make a 3 hour drive from my college to play this tournament, and the captain never once said anything during the season along the lines of "dont plan on playing much other than your two qualifying matches and MAYBE one match at city." I realize that she had to make a tough decision because im new to the team (and usta) this year so she doesnt know how I would play in pressure situations and would rather go with seasoned players who just may not be as good, but I just wish she would have told me that sooner than when she put out the lineup. now, with all this *****ing you guys must think the captain is the wicked witch of the west, but shes actually a really nice lady, I just got kinda screwed over because she let the team get too big

 

[randomname]

update: the lineup for tomorrow has come out, im not in it, and I get to drive back to college station tomorrow to tell my friends some 3.5 hacks have been played over me. I have also vowed to come back next summer to assemble the best 7.0 team full of the most outrageous sandbaggers for the sole purpose of beating this team. and yes, I am mad as hell, its not because im not playing, im a team player, I can deal with that, but its because I wasted my time driving up here when the captain knew she had no intention of playing me unless they were out of contention and didnt say a word about it all season

 

[Cindysphinx]

It's not hard to know when you're being dissed.

By all means, start your own team and run the darn thing right.

 

[AP328]

update: the lineup for tomorrow has come out, im not in it, and I get to drive back to college station tomorrow to tell my friends some 3.5 hacks have been played over me. I have also vowed to come back next summer to assemble the best 7.0 team full of the most outrageous sandbaggers for the sole purpose of beating this team. and yes, I am mad as hell, its not because im not playing, im a team player, I can deal with that, but its because I wasted my time driving up here when the captain knew she had no intention of playing me unless they were out of contention and didnt say a word about it all season

The long drive does suck. Your captain should have been up front with you. However, you should have plenty of college work to keep you busy until next summer. If you are still mad by then, go ahead and start your own team.

Also, if you have read some of the other posts, Texas already has a reputation for playing lots of sandbaggers. It would be a shame to add to that legend...

 

[Cindysphinx]

Oh, and what's up with this business about not having a line-up the day before a big match?

Last season, my mixed 7.0 captain put out the entire season line-up from the beginning. Now he regrets it because doing that locks you into a line-up early and doesn't let you adjust as your learn more about your players, pairings and opponents.

Now he is going to put out the line-up for each match the week before. Doh!

 

[randomname]

well, I guess her logic is if we got knocked out of contention she wuold just start playing people as evenly as possible so she would wait to release the lineup as late as possible (we still have one last match she hasnt made the lineup for, but she knew I wasnt available to play that match. I think I'll be showing up tomorrow morning to support my team mates that actually seem to care about the commitment I've made to the team, and to give an earfull to my captain and the pro who helped her make the lineup, who I even took a lesson from for the sole purpose of getting me ready for the mixed playoffs and who knew I was driving down specifically for the tournament. also, I couldnt believe it, but when the captain sent out the lineup for tomorrow she added at the end "sorry for those who didnt get to play" I WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO DIDNT GET TO PLAY if your gonna do something like that atleast give a decent apology

edit: and apparently there are others who arnt happy with how the team has been run (other 3.5's who are fed up with the 4.0/3.0 obsession, theyre the ones who pull out the big matches but get treated like theyre a 3.5 playing on a 5.0 team)

 

[Cindysphinx]

Well . . . OK.

Just remember what mom said about burning bridges . . .