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discuss and decide the single greatest shot in the history of men's singles tennis......
Single greatest shot in men's tennis history
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good point and good choice.....
MIKEPANTELAKIS
Rookie
Sam Groth's serve...lol
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i agree with the sentiment about serves of some players winning a lot of points but so do forehands, backhands and volleys......maybe one could take stats of forehand winners, backhand winners or volley winners and argue each case but greatness is not always measured in numbers......
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Fed's forehand, Nadal's forehand, Sampras's serve.
These shots have helped become what they are today
These shots have helped become what they are today
You have a valid point to be fair, although his height does help his serve out a lot, but under pressure it wasn't as clutch as Sampras.
Do you think its fair to say Sampras had the best first and second serve combination and if tennis players were robots, Goran's serve is the best? I feel Sampras' serve was the best ever because of his big point clutch moments, whilst Goran would throw in many double faults on big points.
Actually, just remembered Karlovic too. That thing literally got him, and kept him on tour. Doubt he would be top 100 let alone nearing the top 10 at one point without that serve (again though, helped by being tall).
tipsa...don'tlikehim!
Talk Tennis Guru
Sampras serve
edberg volleys
Hall of Fame
For some reason I agree
Even JMac says it's best BH-volley ever->
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THUvyWf-t7c
M
monfed
Guest
The Federer FH baby, best shot ever.
If Karlovic did not have his serve, he would not be playing professionally at all.
The serve is the only single shot that could take a player with a 5.0-5.5 level all around game and make him top 20 in the world.
Karlovic's serve was significantly better than Goran's or Sampras' serve. Those players were much better all around than Karlovic, but their serves were not as strong.
I think Sampras' serve may be slightly overrated, top 3 serves of all-time for sure but I don't think it was even the best of his generation. It stands out because he had the game to back it up and was so dominant, but objectively if you isolate the serve then Ivanisevic's was just a bit more deadly.
Sampras had the best 2nd serve though.
Sampras had the best 2nd serve though.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
I have to go with Djokovic's overhead smash.
On more serious note, most fans today are Fed fans or Nadal fans and they will vote for their fav player. I don't think it's fair on the other great guys who most of the fans today have never seen in action.
On more serious note, most fans today are Fed fans or Nadal fans and they will vote for their fav player. I don't think it's fair on the other great guys who most of the fans today have never seen in action.
borg number one
Legend
The Sampras serve, Connors backhand, Borg forehand, Nadal forehand, Federer forehand, Rosewall backhand, Lendl forehand, McEnroe volleys, Don Budge backhand, Djokovic backhand, and Laver backhand/overhead have all been great some great shots.
winstonplum
Hall of Fame
It's Pete's serve by quite some margain. In order to be considered to have one of the best shots in tennis history, you need to have done quite a bit in tennis history. That serve was the difference maker in 14 slams.
President
Legend
If we are taking height into consideration, it's probably the Sampras serve. That shot was on the level of guys like Krajicek and Ivanesevic, but in the hands of someone who was only about 6 feet tall. In that context, it enabled him to have an incredibly overpowering serve while still moving exceptionally well, which is probably unprecedented in history. That serve coupled with his height and speed made Sampras almost unbeatable on fast courts when he was playing well.
R
Rob31
Guest
Volandri's serve.
To all those saying that Ivanisevic or Sampras' serve is the greatest shot ever, please see the following links for a comparison of their serves to Karlovic's serve.
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Iv/G/Goran-Ivanisevic.aspx?t=mf&y=0&s=0#
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Sa/P/Pete-Sampras.aspx?t=mf&y=0&s=0#
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Ivo-Karlovic.aspx?t=mf&y=0&s=0#
Ivanisevic finished with 10,183 aces, Sampras finished with 8,858 aces, and Karlovic currently has 7,810 aces. When you consider that Sampras played 984 matches, Ivanisevic played 932 matches, and Karlovic has played only 435 matches, it shows you that Karlovic's serve is vastly superior to both of the other two serves.
On a per match basis, Karlovic has averaged 18 aces per match, Ivanisevic has averaged 11 aces per matches, and Sampras has averaged 9 aces per match. When you consider that Karlovic has almost always lost early in grand slams and as a result a lower percentage of his matches played were best of 5, this stat is even more impressive.
Even if you do not consider the number of aces to be the most important factor in judging the best serve (I consider number of aces, double faults, and first serve percentage as the only true serve statistics, other stats factor in all around game), Karlovic has averaged slightly fewer double faults per match, has a significantly higher first serve percentage, has won a higher percentage of break points faced, has won a higher percentage of his service games, and has won a higher percentage of his service points than both Ivanisevic and Sampras. He has done all of this despite a much weaker all around game to back up his serve.
The only serving statistics in which Sampras is superior to Karlovic is that Sampras has won 53% of his second serve points and Karlovic has won 52%. The only serve statistic where Ivanisevic even matches Karlovic is that they have both have won 82% of first serve points. This is despite Karlovic's weak all around game to back up his serve.
Karlovic has a superior serve to both Sampras and Ivanisevic and it is not even close. If Sampras had Karlovic's serve, he likely would have won 25-30 majors. If Ivanisevic had Karlovic's serve, he likely would have won 5-8 majors. If Federer had Karlovic's serve, he probably would have swept the grand slams between 2004 and 2007 and would have finished with well over 30 majors with a couple of perfect seasons included in there.
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Iv/G/Goran-Ivanisevic.aspx?t=mf&y=0&s=0#
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Sa/P/Pete-Sampras.aspx?t=mf&y=0&s=0#
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Ivo-Karlovic.aspx?t=mf&y=0&s=0#
Ivanisevic finished with 10,183 aces, Sampras finished with 8,858 aces, and Karlovic currently has 7,810 aces. When you consider that Sampras played 984 matches, Ivanisevic played 932 matches, and Karlovic has played only 435 matches, it shows you that Karlovic's serve is vastly superior to both of the other two serves.
On a per match basis, Karlovic has averaged 18 aces per match, Ivanisevic has averaged 11 aces per matches, and Sampras has averaged 9 aces per match. When you consider that Karlovic has almost always lost early in grand slams and as a result a lower percentage of his matches played were best of 5, this stat is even more impressive.
Even if you do not consider the number of aces to be the most important factor in judging the best serve (I consider number of aces, double faults, and first serve percentage as the only true serve statistics, other stats factor in all around game), Karlovic has averaged slightly fewer double faults per match, has a significantly higher first serve percentage, has won a higher percentage of break points faced, has won a higher percentage of his service games, and has won a higher percentage of his service points than both Ivanisevic and Sampras. He has done all of this despite a much weaker all around game to back up his serve.
The only serving statistics in which Sampras is superior to Karlovic is that Sampras has won 53% of his second serve points and Karlovic has won 52%. The only serve statistic where Ivanisevic even matches Karlovic is that they have both have won 82% of first serve points. This is despite Karlovic's weak all around game to back up his serve.
Karlovic has a superior serve to both Sampras and Ivanisevic and it is not even close. If Sampras had Karlovic's serve, he likely would have won 25-30 majors. If Ivanisevic had Karlovic's serve, he likely would have won 5-8 majors. If Federer had Karlovic's serve, he probably would have swept the grand slams between 2004 and 2007 and would have finished with well over 30 majors with a couple of perfect seasons included in there.
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vladap
Professional
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
I agree completely, there really isn't a comparison. And Isner comes in 2nd - averaging 15,5 aces per match with a pretty high service percent to go with it (68%).
Also, is Sampras even best in the second serve category? Yes, he could hit aces on clutch points. And he went big with it often. But he's 53 % on it is not that great - especially when you consider how much game he had to say Isner and Roddick (both at 56 % overall).
On grass, Sampras is down at 47th!!, whereas Isner is first and Roddick is 10th.
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Matchfacts/Matchfacts-List.aspx?c=3&s=2&y=0
Considering Sampras had a vastly superior ground game to especially Isner but certainly also Roddick, logically they would have a better 2nd serve in and of itself, wouldn't they?
Or am I missing something? (and yes, I know - he's was so clutch in the key moments. But these stats are overall and they present a pretty clear picture in my opinion - the one thing that perhaps skew them a bit is that Sampras played more quality players than Isner did. How much that influences the percentage is hard to measure without going through each and every match though - just one small sample for the sake of it: Wimb 97, quarterfinal vs. Becker, 51, semi vs. Woodbridge: 54, final vs. Pioline: 64).
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Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Do we? I mean, it makes it's more impressive that it's so good given he's 3 inches smaller than Goran and 9 inches smaller than Karlovic.
But shouldn't we judge the shot as a shot - meaning how much damage it does/great it is as a shot?
If, for the sake of the argument, Ferrer had a world class forehand that was almost on pair with Federer and Nadal's, would we judge Ferrer's greater cause he's smaller? Of course not. Or at least I wouldn't.
(and yes, I know height means more for the serve, but the basic argument stands - a shot should be evaluated on it's own merits, not by the height of the player).
Forehand Of Doom
Banned
I voted for Other. Pancho Gonzalez's serve (and also his forehand of doom).
PSNELKE
Legend
His height? :O lol He isn't much taller than Fed, Nadal, Djokovic, Sampras... Not even as tall as Del Potro.
You could say that for Karlovic and Isner, but not for Goran.
We don't have to consider that. The question asked simply which shot was the greatest of all time. The only thing that matters is the shot itself. The best shot divided by height is a different topic altogether (and one I am not very interested in).
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I would rate Isner as clearly ahead of Sampras and Goran as well, although behind Karlovic. Raonic is serving very well also, but I think he needs to keep it up for a few more years as he has very few matches so far.
My list of best serves (of the last 25 years) off the top of my head:
1. Karlovic
huge gap
2. Isner
huge gap.
3. Goran
4. Sampras
5. Roddick
6. Raonic
There are probably some other lower ranked players with huge serves who might deserve to be ranked highly on this list as well. I have never seen Groth play, but have heard he can serve extremely fast.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
I can agree with this, but as you also indicate, there's a high likelyhood that Raonic will move into top 3. These years, he's leading the hold game, the first serve percentage won etc. And is more or less on pair with Isner on the ace count.
objectivity
Banned
statistics like these are difficult to compare given the non-standardization of opponents, surfaces etc. there's almost no inferential power you can derive from these statistics. there's too much selection effect at play.
When asking about a particular shot you also have to make it an even playing field. Pete and Goran are also about 9" shorter than Karlovic. No matter how much you work on your form you are never able to teach 6'11". When looking at their form it is very clear Isner, Janowicz, and Karlovic do not have the same fluidity in their serves.
For instance I am 6'3" and could smack my serve harder than anyone else on my team in college, until a bigger guy came along lol. Size and power make all the difference in the world, especially on the serve.
My personal vote for best serve would be either Sampras or Roddick for the 2nd serve. For 1st serve I would actually choose Pim Pim, not for his power. I think his 1st serve motion was beautiful and very easy on the body. Roddick's was a bit to muscly for my taste, and Sampras was great as well but his 2nd serve was his real weapon
For instance I am 6'3" and could smack my serve harder than anyone else on my team in college, until a bigger guy came along lol. Size and power make all the difference in the world, especially on the serve.
My personal vote for best serve would be either Sampras or Roddick for the 2nd serve. For 1st serve I would actually choose Pim Pim, not for his power. I think his 1st serve motion was beautiful and very easy on the body. Roddick's was a bit to muscly for my taste, and Sampras was great as well but his 2nd serve was his real weapon
If you factoring the difference between the two decades, I think it's harder for servers to rack up quality stats(aces, unreturned) today than in the 90s. The courts are slower, balls are heavier, and the players are better returners. What Karlovic did in 2007 was just insane. He average 20.6 aces per match that year, by far the highest ever. Goran's best was 15.4 per match in 1996. Roddick 12.6 in 2004, and Sampras 10.8 in 1993. http://m.atpworldtour.com/News/DEUCE-Tennis/DEUCE-Finals-2007/Shark-Bites.aspx
In 2009, Karlovic broke the most aces record set by Muller who served 54 aces at Wimbledon 1993. Karlovic ended with 55 and it was on clay(FO). That same year, he served 78 aces at Davis Cup.
I haven't check Isner's stats, but I expect his numbers and average are high too.
Kenshin
Semi-Pro
I completey agree.
tipsa...don'tlikehim!
Talk Tennis Guru
Great post. Karlovic's serve is on a league on its own, like some other user said, the rest of his game is poor, his serve keeps him in the top 100.
His serve is the best ever seen in tennis history.
tipsa...don'tlikehim!
Talk Tennis Guru
Flash O'Groove
Hall of Fame
I voted for the Federer's forehand because the forehand is more useful than the serve during the return games. Nadal has the close second best forehand.
Pete had the best serve among the great players, but not the best serve among all players.
Pete had the best serve among the great players, but not the best serve among all players.
tipsa...don'tlikehim!
Talk Tennis Guru
OP: your "other" option would make Chico cry like Federer did in 2009
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