Smooth Syn Gut for Cross

[gkamieneski]

My usual setup is Tourna Big Hitter Silver Rough mains with Big Hitter Silver crosses, both in 17g. The BHS crosses are very smooth and enable great snapback for the BHSR mains.

Now while nursing a sore elbow, I am thinking of softening up the stringbed a bit by substituting a very smooth Synthetic Gut for the BHS crosses. If I can find something smooth enough to still allow the mains to snap back while making the stringbed feel a little softer, I will be happy.

Recently there was a long discussion of Prince Original Syn Gut. I used the PSGD years back and I know that won't serve my purpose, but will the original in a 17g. do it for me? There was another comment that Gosen OG-Sheep is the same string and if so, I may wish to buy a reel of that string. Is there a Syn Gut smoother than all others for use as a cross with Poly mains?

 

[meltedsteam]

My usual setup is Tourna Big Hitter Silver Rough mains with Big Hitter Silver crosses, both in 17g. The BHS crosses are very smooth and enable great snapback for the BHSR mains.

Now while nursing a sore elbow, I am thinking of softening up the stringbed a bit by substituting a very smooth Synthetic Gut for the BHS crosses. If I can find something smooth enough to still allow the mains to snap back while making the stringbed feel a little softer, I will be happy.

Recently there was a long discussion of Prince Original Syn Gut. I used the PSGD years back and I know that won't serve my purpose, but will the original in a 17g. do it for me? There was another comment that Gosen OG-Sheep is the same string and if so, I may wish to buy a reel of that string. Is there a Syn Gut smoother than all others for use as a cross with Poly mains?

I keep a database of String Variables collected from TW University. Here are the top 20 strings in ascending coefficient of friction (note some of their data is old strings no longer available):

Brand String Material Gauge SumOfActual Tension Stiff Energy SumOfTension Loss SumOfCoefficient
Babolat Origin 17 Nylon NA 29.66 157.7 92.4 10.1 0.066
Gosen Powermaster I 16 Nylon 1.11 29.02 136 90.1 10.8 0.075
Gosen Compositemaster II 16 Nylon 1.0 x 28.89 126.3 89.3 11 0.079
Gosen Powermaster II 16 Nylon 1 29.48 131.4 90.6 10.4 0.08
Klip Synthetic Gut 16 Nylon 1.31 28.71 137.2 89.1 11.2 0.081
Volkl Synthetic Gut 17 Nylon 1.28 29.26 137.2 89.1 10.6 0.082
Gosen Compositemaster I 16 Nylon 1.2 x 29.79 138.3 90.8 10.1 0.083
Volkl Gripper 17 Nylon 1.31 29.17 116.6 90.8 10.8 0.085
Prince Premier Power 18 Nylon NA 29.55 116.6 89.1 10.4 0.086
Prince Premier Control 16 Nylon NA 30.58 133.2 91.4 9.3 0.087
Volkl Synthetic Gut 16 Nylon 1.3 32.99 142.3 90.2 7.3 0.087
Head FXP Power 16 Nylon 1.34 28.27 132 90.2 11.5 0.087
Prince Premier Control 15L Nylon NA 30.34 126.9 89.9 9.5 0.088
Gosen Nanosilver 17 Nylon 1.26 30.03 139.4 90.4 9.7 0.088
Ashaway MonoGut ZX 16 Nylon/Zyex NA 14.49 85.2 79 26 0.088
Head FXP Power 17 Nylon 1.23 29.33 131.4 90.4 10.6 0.089
Gosen AK Pro 17 Nylon 1.25 30.14 144.6 90.1 9.7 0.089
Ashaway Liberty 16 Nylon 1.33 29.17 138.9 89.5 10.8 0.089
Prince Premier Control 17 Nylon NA 29.55 122.9 89.7 10.4 0.091

 

[DonDiego]

I play with Head synthetic gut PPS 16 full bed, and it's smooth enough.

Smoother than Prince syngut with duraflex, but I haven't tried the Prince Original.

 

[meltedsteam]

I modified this for the numbers you care about. 1st number is stiffness, third number is Coefficient of Friction:

Brand String Material Gauge Stiff Energy SumOfTension Loss SumOfCoefficient
Babolat Origin 17 Nylon NA 157.7 92.4 10.1 0.066
Gosen Powermaster I 16 Nylon 1.11 136 90.1 10.8 0.075
Gosen Compositemaster II 16 Nylon 1.0 x 126.3 89.3 11 0.079
Gosen Powermaster II 16 Nylon 1 131.4 90.6 10.4 0.08
Klip Synthetic Gut 16 Nylon 1.31 137.2 89.1 11.2 0.081
Volkl Synthetic Gut 17 Nylon 1.28 137.2 89.1 10.6 0.082
Gosen Compositemaster I 16 Nylon 1.2 x 138.3 90.8 10.1 0.083
Volkl Gripper 17 Nylon 1.31 116.6 90.8 10.8 0.085
Prince Premier Power 18 Nylon NA 116.6 89.1 10.4 0.086
Prince Premier Control 16 Nylon NA 133.2 91.4 9.3 0.087
Volkl Synthetic Gut 16 Nylon 1.3 142.3 90.2 7.3 0.087
Head FXP Power 16 Nylon 1.34 132 90.2 11.5 0.087
Prince Premier Control 15L Nylon NA 126.9 89.9 9.5 0.088
Gosen Nanosilver 17 Nylon 1.26 139.4 90.4 9.7 0.088
Ashaway MonoGut ZX 16 Nylon/Zyex NA 85.2 79 26 0.088
Head FXP Power 17 Nylon 1.23 131.4 90.4 10.6 0.089
Gosen AK Pro 17 Nylon 1.25 144.6 90.1 9.7 0.089
Ashaway Liberty 16 Nylon 1.33 138.9 89.5 10.8 0.089
Prince Premier Control 17 Nylon NA 122.9 89.7 10.4 0.091

 

[Ramon]

Try Gamma Marathon with the DPC coating. It's a bit expensive for syngut, but it's smooth, soft, and durable. Babolat N.Vy is smooth also.

 

[the_faceless_player]

I've been enjoying Tourna's Synthetic Gut Armor as a cross with Tour Bite mains. It seems pretty slippery for a syn gut and has been solid in durability for me too.

 

[gkamieneski]

Thanks for the listing MS.

I am hearing good things about Ashaway Monogut ZX which is on your list although I would probably use the 17g which is not listed. Another considered is the Gosen Nanosilver (cosmetic reasons).

 

[meltedsteam]

You are welcome. For the Nanosilver, some people say the coating comes off of it too quick. I am guessing the coating (which makes up the cool color) is part of the reason it is smooth.

 

[gkamieneski]

That's a worthwhile consideration. Thanks.

 

[gkamieneski]

I would love to hear from others who have used the smoothest syn gut they could find with textured poly mains. As I said, if I can get the snap back I have now with a little more comfort using the syn gut in the crosses, I will be pleased.

 

[Tennisist]

I've tried Prince and Volkl Classic -- they are not smooth.
Forten Sweet 16 is smoother (but breaks fast).

My best choice so far are "stiff" syn guts like Wilson Xtreme. Poly mains can glide on them for a long time. No notches. Crosses just wear out smoothly and uniformly across a large area. I hated a full bed of Wilson Xtreme by itself, but, strangely, it works well as a cross.

I also liked Gosen Nano-Silver as a cross.

My other favorite is Isospeed Classic (translucent amber kind) -- very smooth and good-feeling cross (although technically, a multi).

Ashaway Monogut ZX is smooth alright -- but I did not like the feel.

 

[gkamieneski]

Hmmm...stiff syn guts make me want to shy away. I'm looking for smooth so the mains will snap back (also don't want cross to notch), but I am also looking for comfort.

Ashaway explained that their Monogut ZX was a completely better animal than their regular Monogut and supposedly very comfortable, so what did you not like about its feel?

 

[gkamieneski]

How about Gosen OG Sheep Micro? Is it smooth and comfortable?

 

[djNEiGht]

Volkl Syn or Classic Syn has worked nice for me (comfort, little extra power and very good spin) as a cross to Cyclone. 50/52 in 17g CP/PS

 

[gkamieneski]

Also wonder about Babolat NVY...smooth, comfort? Volkl Classic was already described as not smooth.

 

[Rjtennis]

Try Gamma Marathon with the DPC coating. It's a bit expensive for syngut, but it's smooth, soft, and durable. Babolat N.Vy is smooth also.

NVY would be a good option. However, it's on the stiffer side for a syn gut.

 

[Ramon]

I would love to hear from others who have used the smoothest syn gut they could find with textured poly mains. As I said, if I can get the snap back I have now with a little more comfort using the syn gut in the crosses, I will be pleased.

I tried Black Shark 16 with Gamma Marathon 15L. Compared to full Black Shark the mains moved a little more, so there does seem to be a loss of snapback based on that observation. However, I didn't notice much of a drop in spin and liked it better than full Black Shark because it was more comfortable and had better feel.

 

[KYHacker]

I second Tourna Armor. I just tried with Tourna Black Zone. It's the first hybrid that actually liked over a full bed of poly. I usually find that the hybrids are worse than a full bed of poly strung about 4 lbs looser. But, the Black Zone/Armor had good power and control and good pocketing and feel.

 

[illzoni]

I've tried Prince and Volkl Classic -- they are not smooth.
Forten Sweet 16 is smoother (but breaks fast).

I'm stringing my 12yo son's racquets with a copoly main/SG cross hybrid using Forten Sweet 17 for the crosses. For the mains he slightly preferred Babolat Pro Hurricane 17 but they were eating up the crosses quickly. We haven't had that same problem with other copolys, including Tourna Big Hitter Blue and Big Hitter Blue Rough, as well as Kirshbaum Pro Line II 17. He's settled on the Tournas as being a close second to the Babolat.

So I guess my shorter reply is...
Cross life may depend on what mains you're using. We're getting decent wear out of Forten Sweet 17 with the right mains.

 

[gkamieneski]

I modified this for the numbers you care about. 1st number is stiffness, third number is Coefficient of Friction:

Brand String Material Gauge Stiff Energy SumOfTension Loss SumOfCoefficient
Babolat Origin 17 Nylon NA 157.7 92.4 10.1 0.066
Gosen Powermaster I 16 Nylon 1.11 136 90.1 10.8 0.075
Gosen Compositemaster II 16 Nylon 1.0 x 126.3 89.3 11 0.079
Gosen Powermaster II 16 Nylon 1 131.4 90.6 10.4 0.08
Klip Synthetic Gut 16 Nylon 1.31 137.2 89.1 11.2 0.081
Volkl Synthetic Gut 17 Nylon 1.28 137.2 89.1 10.6 0.082
Gosen Compositemaster I 16 Nylon 1.2 x 138.3 90.8 10.1 0.083
Volkl Gripper 17 Nylon 1.31 116.6 90.8 10.8 0.085
Prince Premier Power 18 Nylon NA 116.6 89.1 10.4 0.086
Prince Premier Control 16 Nylon NA 133.2 91.4 9.3 0.087
Volkl Synthetic Gut 16 Nylon 1.3 142.3 90.2 7.3 0.087
Head FXP Power 16 Nylon 1.34 132 90.2 11.5 0.087
Prince Premier Control 15L Nylon NA 126.9 89.9 9.5 0.088
Gosen Nanosilver 17 Nylon 1.26 139.4 90.4 9.7 0.088
Ashaway MonoGut ZX 16 Nylon/Zyex NA 85.2 79 26 0.088
Head FXP Power 17 Nylon 1.23 131.4 90.4 10.6 0.089
Gosen AK Pro 17 Nylon 1.25 144.6 90.1 9.7 0.089
Ashaway Liberty 16 Nylon 1.33 138.9 89.5 10.8 0.089
Prince Premier Control 17 Nylon NA 122.9 89.7 10.4 0.091

Melted, don't you mean that the last number is the coefficient of friction?

 

[gkamieneski]

o.k. I guess I would like to hear from players using poly mains with smooth syn gut crosses that also soften the bed (maybe not all syn gut crosses would do so). Everyone has an opinion on syn guts that they like, but specifically what have you found to work as a cross with poly mains?

I could be wrong, but I would think that any of the reinforced or wrapped syn guts, e.g., Head PPS, PSGD, etc. would hamper main snapback.

 

[meltedsteam]

Melted, don't you mean that the last number is the coefficient of friction?

Yes, you are right. As a data analyst I was considering the gauge to be an attribute and not a measure. Sorry for the confusion. Once you hit the numbers every space will separate the different measurements. If you paste that text to excel and do text-to-columns it looks a lot better.

 

[gkamieneski]

I may be wrong to be looking for a soft, comfortable syngut to use as a cross with my shaped poly mains. The more I read the more I realize that ANY syn gut used in the hybrid will soften the stringbed.

So, I guess I am just looking for the smoothest syn gut which will allow the poly mains to snap back efficiently.

 

[SOY78]

Gosen Micro 18g feels really good and smooth with poly mains. Also try the Technifibre Synthetic gut that is very smooth also.

 

[gkamieneski]

Now I see why Babolat Origin is at the top of the list. At $22 per set, it has to be one of the most expensive strings out there.

 

[gkamieneski]

I ended up going with Babolat N.Vy 16g for use as crosses with my Tourna BHSR 17g. mains.

So far it has softened up the stringbed as desired and after playing 3 sets of doubles seemed friendly to my TE. I didn't notice a lot of difference from my usual full poly stringbed, maybe a little more pop. At first I was disappointed as the mains didn't seem to be snapping back and I hate having to adjust strings and the thought that my spin was lacking, but surprisingly as play went on, I was getting spin and snapback.

I'm guessing that the N.Vy will notch quicker than my usual poly cross, but so far so good. I have to say N.Vy in your hand feels like one of the softest strings I have ever seen and it weaves like a dream. Apparently it has a teflon-like slippery coating.

Because I have some surplus Big Hitter Silver smooth strings, I think I will try them next as mains with the N.Vy crosses as I would expect better snap back.

 

[JackB1]

I ended up going with Babolat N.Vy 16g for use as crosses with my Tourna BHSR 17g. mains.

So far it has softened up the stringbed as desired and after playing 3 sets of doubles seemed friendly to my TE. I didn't notice a lot of difference from my usual full poly stringbed, maybe a little more pop. At first I was disappointed as the mains didn't seem to be snapping back and I hate having to adjust strings and the thought that my spin was lacking, but surprisingly as play went on, I was getting spin and snapback.

I'm guessing that the N.Vy will notch quicker than my usual poly cross, but so far so good. I have to say N.Vy in your hand feels like one of the softest strings I have ever seen and it weaves like a dream. Apparently it has a teflon-like slippery coating.

Because I have some surplus Big Hitter Silver smooth strings, I think I will try them next as mains with the N.Vy crosses as I would expect better snap back.

NvY is a fantastic cross for poly mains. Almost feels like stealing paying that little for it

 

[logrock]

I ended up going with Babolat N.Vy 16g for use as crosses with my Tourna BHSR 17g. mains.

So far it has softened up the stringbed as desired and after playing 3 sets of doubles seemed friendly to my TE. I didn't notice a lot of difference from my usual full poly stringbed, maybe a little more pop. At first I was disappointed as the mains didn't seem to be snapping back and I hate having to adjust strings and the thought that my spin was lacking, but surprisingly as play went on, I was getting spin and snapback.

I'm guessing that the N.Vy will notch quicker than my usual poly cross, but so far so good. I have to say N.Vy in your hand feels like one of the softest strings I have ever seen and it weaves like a dream. Apparently it has a teflon-like slippery coating.

Because I have some surplus Big Hitter Silver smooth strings, I think I will try them next as mains with the N.Vy crosses as I would expect better snap back.

My go to setup is BHS 17 mains @47/ Forten Sweet 16 Nat. cross @ 50.
I do stray sometimes but always come back. I think it might be what you are looking for. Very comfortable feel with the control I need.

 

[yangster007]

Gosen OG Sheep Micron 16/17/18 all the way !

 

[gkamieneski]

Have heard good things for both the Forten and the Gosen, but at a sales price of $4.95, tough to beat the Babolat N.Vy.

Only played 3 sets with it so far. I suspect the only disappointment I could have is if it breaks long ahead of the expensive poly mains. Fingers crossed.

 

[BMC9670]

I'm stringing my 12yo son's racquets with a copoly main/SG cross hybrid using Forten Sweet 17 for the crosses. For the mains he slightly preferred Babolat Pro Hurricane 17 but they were eating up the crosses quickly. We haven't had that same problem with other copolys, including Tourna Big Hitter Blue and Big Hitter Blue Rough, as well as Kirshbaum Pro Line II 17. He's settled on the Tournas as being a close second to the Babolat.

So I guess my shorter reply is...
Cross life may depend on what mains you're using. We're getting decent wear out of Forten Sweet 17 with the right mains.

I've been stringing Solinco Tour Bite Soft 17 mains and Prince Syn Gut 16 crosses for my 12yo's set up. Very little string movement and twice he's broken the poly before the syn gut. He's a big kid, pushing 5'8", and hits SW with good spin. He's coming from Head RIP Control which moved quite a bit and started snapping once a week as he's grown into a big hitter. This setup seems to be a good mix of soft, powerful, control, and decent durability. The only thing I notice is that the tension drops a decent amount in the first couple hours of play, then stabilizes. No problem as I adjust in stringing.

 

[colowhisper]

o.k. I guess I would like to hear from players using poly mains with smooth syn gut crosses that also soften the bed (maybe not all syn gut crosses would do so). Everyone has an opinion on syn guts that they like, but specifically what have you found to work as a cross with poly mains?

This may not be the best route to your stated goal. I like the idea of using syn gut crosses to add some pop to soft poly mains but not the other way around. The new poly stuff is so soft you really don't need syn gut for that softening purpose anymore IMO.

 

[colowhisper]

I've been stringing Solinco Tour Bite Soft 17 mains and Prince Syn Gut 16 crosses for my 12yo's set up. Very little string movement and twice he's broken the poly before the syn gut.

^^this seems like it would be a great set up. Are you using the original prince syn gut or the newer version?

 

[gkamieneski]

All I know is, using the Babolat N.Vy crosses with the Tourna BHSR mains has made my TE happier and still it plays very closely to the BHSR/BHS setup that was my go to until I left it in too long (just once) and paid the consequences (TE).

 

[BMC9670]

^^this seems like it would be a great set up. Are you using the original prince syn gut or the newer version?

Using the newer PSG 16 with Duraflex for the cross with the STBS 17 mains. Feels like waxy spaghetti when stringing, but nice and soft. Very little string movement and durability has been good - he trains 3-4 days a week and plays an average of 2 tournaments per month. The last two strings jobs lasted about 3 weeks.

 

[BMC9670]

^^^ PS - the PSG also lowers the cost considerably - averages to about $8 per stringing (self-strung).

 

[gkamieneski]

Just wanted to report back on how the 16g. Babolat N.Vy is working out as a cross with BHSR 17g mains.

I have gotten 6 sets of doubles and 4 sets of singles with this combination and so far the stringbed tension has stayed fairly constant and in fact it has maintained tension much better than when I do the full poly bed of BHSR/BHS.

One thing I have noticed is some notching, but not too bad, and the ultra smooth coating seems to wear off the N.Vy. I notice this even out at the perimeter where the strings are not rubbing mains or making ball contact.

While the combination plays pretty close to the poly hybrid that I had to give up with the TE, sometimes I would prefer less propulsion off the strings. Because of this, I would have to conclude that the N.Vy juices up the stringbed a bit. I do feel the hybrid is allowing me to continue play while rehabbing the TE.

 

[geca]

OGSM is a great cross for soft polys... it provides that crisp foundation to release the poly's power.

 

[oble]

First post!

Also another vote for Gosen OGSM as a cross.

One thing I have noticed is some notching, but not too bad, and the ultra smooth coating seems to wear off the N.Vy. I notice this even out at the perimeter where the strings are not rubbing mains or making ball contact.

While the combination plays pretty close to the poly hybrid that I had to give up with the TE, sometimes I would prefer less propulsion off the strings. Because of this, I would have to conclude that the N.Vy juices up the stringbed a bit. I do feel the hybrid is allowing me to continue play while rehabbing the TE.

Regarding notching, I find that it happens more quickly with a shaped/textured main. They probably saw through the syngut cross more quickly than smooth poly mains. Why not try the BHS in the main instead?

You may also have to up the overall tension by a couple of lbs since the syngut cross will add some pop compared to poly/poly.