So, who is greter clay courter between these 4 now?

Let's settle this once and for all!

  • Total voters
    95
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secund2nun

New User
crimson87 said:
Federer is a better clay court player than Djokovic.
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The numbers say otherwise. Both played in the Nadal era, but Novak has 3 RG titles vs 1 for Fed. Novak beat Nadal twice at the FO while Federer never beat Nadal at the FO. This is just as important as Novak's 3 to 1 RG advantage over Fed. Beating Nadal and winning the RG in 2021 is probably the most impressive accomplishment of Novak's career. The 2015 win over Nadal was also impressive, even though he didn't win the title. Fed could never do it. Novak beat the master of clay in his kingdom twice.
 
C

crimson87

Semi-Pro
secund2nun said:
The numbers say otherwise. Both played in the Nadal era, but Novak has 3 RG titles vs 1 for Fed. Novak beat Nadal twice at the FO while Federer never beat Nadal at the FO. This is just as important as Novak's 3 to 1 RG advantage over Fed. Beating Nadal and winning the RG in 2021 is probably the most impressive accomplishment of Novak's career. The 2015 win over Nadal was also impressive, even though he didn't win the title. Fed could never do it. Novak beat the master of clay in his kingdom twice.
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C'mon... Djokovic never played peak clay Nadal, just the old one. You conveniently left that out.
 
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secund2nun

New User
crimson87 said:
C'mon... Djokovic never played peak clay Nadal, just the old one. You conveniently left that out.
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Basically no one ever beat peak Nadal except Soderling, but 2015 Nadal and 2021 Nadal were still dominant on clay and by far the best clay tennis players ever behind peak Nadal. 2015 Nadal was only 29 years old anyways. That is clearly his prime. Novak beat him twice. Federer never could beat any version of Nadal at RG.
 
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G.O.A.T.
I might have looked at this differently if Borg had kept going and been a continual potential roadblock for Lendl but alas, no dice.
 
I

insideoutforehands

Semi-Pro
secund2nun said:
Basically no one ever beat peak Nadal except Soderling, but 2015 Nadal and 2021 Nadal were still dominant on clay and by far the best clay tennis players ever behind peak Nadal. 2015 Nadal was only 29 years old anyways. That is clearly his prime. Novak beat him twice. Federer never could beat any version of Nadal at RG.
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2015 Nadal was garbage, and loses to atleast 4 or 5 players at that RG. 2021 is debateable.
 
Djokodalerer31

Djokodalerer31

Hall of Fame
crimson87 said:
C'mon... Djokovic never played peak clay Nadal, just the old one. You conveniently left that out.
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Even if we grant the proposition that Nadal in 2021 and especially in 2015 wasn't nowhere near his best (Maybe i'll admit not even 50%...), this argument still falls apart based on the fact, that the only other person in the span of 17 years, who EVER beat Nadal on that court was Soderling and he did it only ONCE, while Novak did it TWICE! Do you not understand what that means?...think...that means that nobody else, other than Soderling and Djokovic was able to take advantage of Nadal's lower level and beat him, because their personal level was STILL not good enough for that and that includes Federer as well...and you conveniently left that out...
 
The_Order

The_Order

G.O.A.T.
nam416 said:
Gotta be Djokovic I think. That he managed to bag 3 (or at least 2 if not counting this year's title) FO titles in the era of Nadal has to keep him in front of the others here.
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lmfao... 2/3 Nadal wasn't even a factor and the one where he was, it was his 2nd worst RG performance in his career due to injury.
 
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G.O.A.T.
Djokodalerer31 said:
Even if we grant the proposition that Nadal in 2021 and especially in 2015 wasn't nowhere near his best (Maybe i'll admit not even 50%...), this argument still falls apart based on the fact, that the only other person in the span of 17 years, who EVER beat Nadal on that court was Soderling and he did it only ONCE, while Novak did it TWICE! Do you not understand what that means?...think...that means that nobody else, other than Soderling and Djokovic was able to take advantage of Nadal's lower level and beat him, because their personal level was STILL not good enough for that and that includes Federer as well...and you conveniently left that out...
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Nadal was a blackhole at RG. His level at 2011 and 2021 RG was similar anyway. Should've got it done, Fed...

Maybe Fed did Nadal a big favour that year.
 
Winners or Errors

Winners or Errors

Legend
There is no convincing Djokovic fans on this issue. Strong clay competition. Gut strings. The fact that Lendl invented the kind of training Djoker has perfected. At this point, Lendl was simply more accomplished. Shorter career, more titles, non-inflation era. Numbers. It's like Nebraska in the 1980s, playing football against the weakest teams Tom Osborne could schedule... Those Nebraska teams posted great numbers.
 
C

crimson87

Semi-Pro
In around a month: is Djokovic the greatest grass court player of all time? After all hes got the numbers and beat Federer at WB right?

Folks are delusional...

Slow hard court goat, just leave it at that.
 
Djokodalerer31

Djokodalerer31

Hall of Fame
crimson87 said:
In around a month: is Djokovic the greatest grass court player of all time? After all hes got the numbers and beat Federer at WB right?

Folks are delusional...

Slow hard court goat, just leave it at that.
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Nobody says he is the GOAT of all surfaces and nobody sane enough tried to claim that, but you have to be objective and rank him in the top-5 on every surface all-time and that is more than any other player in the history of this port can claim...nobody else would rank inside top-5 on clay, grass and hard courts at the same time...there are people ranked top-5 on 2 of 3 surfaces, but not ALL active surfaces at the same time and this is kinda the point...
 
jm1980

jm1980

Talk Tennis Guru
I would probably have Lendl ahead of Novak

With Kuerten and Wilander you could make arguments either way
 
Djokodalerer31

Djokodalerer31

Hall of Fame
crimson87 said:
What happened at RG11? Did the PEDs not work?
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That one particular loss somehow offsets all of the Novak's achievements on a surface all of a sudden?? Really?! Are you THAT desperate??...so let me get this clear - 11 masters versus 6 and all clay masters won at least twice, 3 RG titles against only 1 and 2 victories over Nadal, which Federer doesn't have at all at RG, 2 additional finals, almost 20 additional matches won at RG and several more stats not listed here...all of that is somehow dwarved by that one particular loss to Federer back in 2011 in the semi-final??! LMAO Get out of here please...
 
C

crimson87

Semi-Pro
Djokodalerer31 said:
That one particular loss somehow offsets all of the Novak's achievements on a surface all of a sudden?? Really?! Are you THAT desperate??...so let me get this clear - 11 masters versus 6 and all clay masters won at least twice, 3 RG titles against only 1 and 2 victories over Nadal, which Federer doesn't have at all at RG, 2 additional finals, almost 20 additional matches won at RG and several more stats not listed here...all of that is somehow dwarved by that one particular loss to Federer back in 2011 in the semi-final??! LMAO Get out of here please...
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Yep. Because it's the closest thing we have measuring prime Djokovic vs prime Federer on clay. As I told you before, Federer was denied of several french opens and clay masters by PEAK clay Nadal. Djokovic, faced the older bald one with a bajillion injuries and a few steps lost. That's why his records are padded.
 
NAS

NAS

Hall of Fame
crimson87 said:
Yep. Because it's the closest thing we have measuring prime Djokovic vs prime Federer on clay. As I told you before, Federer was denied of several french opens and clay masters by PEAK clay Nadal. Djokovic, faced the older bald one with a bajillion injuries and a few steps lost. That's why his records are padded.
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Why what happened in Rome 09 the Year when Fed won RG and Hamburg.
You are picking and choosing what you like.
It is just like saying Chang is better clay courter than lendl because he defeated peak Lendl who just won AO and was number one.
I don't see anybody using that argument against Lendl and saying that Chang was better clay courter.
Upset happens on clay, if you are fan of Fed ( which I am pretty sure you not) you should see the number of insignificant losses he generated on Rome.
Dude peak Fed lost to Guga who was done and dusted in every manner and that too in straight.
Why not use RG 2012 result, let see because that dont suit your narrative.
The 2012 he won clay master after 3 years( Novak didn't win single clay master that year) and went to have number one ranking again after three years so why not ask about what happened to Fed in RG 2012
 
I

ImmorTAL Big 3

Semi-Pro
To be honest it s really very tight between Lendl and Novak.
Both have won at least 2 times every Big clay court tournament
Novak- 3 FO,6 Rome,3 Madrid,2 Monte Carlo
Lendl-3 FO,2 Rome,2 Monte Carlo,2 Hamburg,2 Barcelona.Lendl also lost only 1 Big clay tournament final outside RG-1981 MC.
It's very close but i choose Novak for 2 reasons
1st -Nadal,Lendl haven't got a player of such caliber in his career.Borg retires when Lendl was 21
2nd -All of Lendl finals are in 1 decade-80s,Novak have success in far bigger time period.Furthermore Lendl played only 2 clay finals outside 80s- 1993 Munich which he won,1993 Nice which he lost.
 
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