Tennis Elbow Procedures

[Moldy]

I've listened to a few of Ben Greenfield's podcast episodes and yes, the amount of things he peddles/endorses is definitely suspect. Trust me, I'm just as skeptical as you are. I only linked that article to spread some awareness of BPC-157. Simple google searches can find you many more sources of information on it and many different user experiences (of which they're pretty overwhelmingly positive).

Played three sets of dubs last night using my APD+ with RPM strings that have been in there for several months now (so they've gotta be super dead but they still play well for me somehow) and I played/served full power without a brace just to see how much my elbow might ache. As of right now - the morning after - my GE tendons feels completely fine with only a slight tenderness to the touch when I press down. My triceps tendinitis behind my elbow is only a slight pain/discomfort when I fully extend my arm, but other than that it feels remarkably fine. Definitely some improvement from times past. I'll have to do a heavy bench press day to really see how far my elbow has come. This is still only day 7 of injecting BPC, so still too early to call, but I'm becoming more convinced of it. I intend to make a post on here after at least a month or so.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

You sound injured.

 

[Moldy]

Well.. yes..? That's why I'm here lol

Granted, I'm probably not as injured as you or others may have been during your bout of TE from what I've read.

 

[tennishabit]

Well.. yes..? That's why I'm here lol

Granted, I'm probably not as injured as you or others may have been during your bout of TE from what I've read.

shocking that for so many yrs, knowingly 50% of tennis population got the notorious te/ge though still let the 'virus' spreading free.........

the itf 50% figure could be dramatically increased if the 50% non te/ge-ers most of whom are wkly oncers/twicers were less cautious rkts/strings/etcetc-wise or raise their playing time.........but anyway it's not a life threatening issue so have a few mths or a few yrs break/rest n everything'll be fine, no hurry....................

who'r profiting from all these:?)))..............ie let's say no te/ge at all worldwide, who'd be losing $$$.....n(n+1)$:?)))........

 

[AZJ1973]

As I mentioned last week. My family got me a TENS machine for my birthday. I have been using it before bed so far every night starting Sunday. So far, it is the only thing I have tried that has shown results. I have been pain free since Monday. I set up four of the pads, think a baseball diamond with my injured tendon being the pitching mound. The pads on home plate and second base talk to each other, and the pads on first and third talk to each other.

I set it to an intensity that I can feel, but just a notch or two lower than an intensity that causes pain.

It’s fun to watch my tendon pulsate or flutter.

I’m not trying to say this is a miracle and trying to commit fraud here, I’m just saying it has worked for me and I have had positive results. And as I mentioned the only thing that has resulted in progress for me, other than rest. Which I have rested for 6 months and the tendon was still weak and painful.

I have done PT, strength training, stretching, ice, heat and a few others.

 

[tennishabit]

As I mentioned last week. My family got me a TENS machine for my birthday. I have been using it before bed so far every night starting Sunday. So far, it is the only thing I have tried that has shown results. I have been pain free since Monday. I set up four of the pads, think a baseball diamond with my injured tendon being the pitching mound. The pads on home plate and second base talk to each other, and the pads on first and third talk to each other.

I set it to an intensity that I can feel, but just a notch or two lower than an intensity that causes pain.

It’s fun to watch my tendon pulsate or flutter.

I’m not trying to say this is a miracle and trying to commit fraud here, I’m just saying it has worked for me and I have had positive results. And as I mentioned the only thing that has resulted in progress for me, other than rest. Which I have rested for 6 months and the tendon was still weak and painful.

I have done PT, strength training, stretching, ice, heat and a few others.

it might be well causing more damages as the elec-magn pulses disrupted/interfered/silenced the 'pain' warning signals sent to ur brain. u'll 'feel better' for time being n mislead that 'healed' so back on tennis court again..........u know the result of that.

chk out if whatever u'r using:
1. if it can provide the essential healing nutrients
2. if it can increase the blood flow in the injured area
3. if it can stop the movement of the relevant section/area which might disrupt the healing

if dat thing can't do any above but only makes u 'feel' better, stop using it.
simple massage by urself or some1 else could be much better, or just rest n do nothing................

 

[AZJ1973]

it might be well causing more damages as the elec-magn pulses disrupted/interfered/silenced the 'pain' warning signals sent to ur brain. u'll 'feel better' for time being n mislead that 'healed' so back on tennis court again..........u know the result of that.

chk out if whatever u'r using:
1. if it can provide the essential healing nutrients
2. if it can increase the blood flow in the injured area
3. if it can stop the movement of the relevant section/area which might disrupt the healing

if dat thing can't do any above but only makes u 'feel' better, stop using it.
simple massage by urself or some1 else could be much better, or just rest n do nothing................

I was thinking it was helping increase blood flow to the area. But I’m not a doctor. I have just tried many things and nothing works. I would be surprised if this was tricking my pain for 3-4 days. I could see if tricking my brain for a few hours but days?

 

[tennishabit]

I was thinking it was helping increase blood flow to the area. But I’m not a doctor. I have just tried many things and nothing works. I would be surprised if this was tricking my pain for 3-4 days. I could see if tricking my brain for a few hours but days?

nothing wrong to be in 'pain'........lolololol manohman..........at least the 'early warning system' n the 'sensor' working fine. otherwise get 737maxed around n crashed in a much worse way........................

btw hv u ever heard of or seen any1 last very long n happy on pain killers:?)))..................

 

[andreh]

With regards to icing, you hear many different things about it. Some say it helps, some say it doesn't. As with any other treatment, anything other than anecdotal evidence that it has an effect is lacking. I doubt there is any real high quality studies made on icing since such studies cost a lot of money and is often tied to testing new treatments that can bring in profit (i.e., new pharmaceuticals)

Over the years I've heard:

• Don't ice - it will reduce circulation and delay healing
• Do ice - after the ice releases, blood will flow to the area and increase circulation
• Don't ice - it will inhibit what little inflammation is involved and cause defective healing (probably incorrect and an extrapolation and misunderstanding of the "tendinosis not tendinitis" paradigm. Ice doesn't inhibit inflammation on a biochemical level like corticosteroids or NSAIDs (asfaik - not a doctor).
• Do ice - but heat afterwards - this will increase circulation
• Do ice - it won't help but it is a consequence free way of managing the pain

It seems nobody knows.

 

[AZJ1973]

In my TE battle I was told that ice helps reduce the inflammation and pain. Then once there is no more inflammation heat is best for long term healing.

So basically, once I start playing again, it would be best for me to ice my elbow as soon as I am done playing. Then once things calm down, if they even need to calm down, I would go to heat.

Who knows?

 

[IowaGuy]

I've listened to a few of Ben Greenfield's podcast episodes and yes, the amount of things he peddles/endorses is definitely suspect. Trust me, I'm just as skeptical as you are. I only linked that article to spread some awareness of BPC-157. Simple google searches can find you many more sources of information on it and many different user experiences (of which they're pretty overwhelmingly positive).

Played three sets of dubs last night using my APD+ with RPM strings that have been in there for several months now (so they've gotta be super dead but they still play well for me somehow) and I played/served full power without a brace just to see how much my elbow might ache. As of right now - the morning after - my GE tendons feels completely fine with only a slight tenderness to the touch when I press down. My triceps tendinitis behind my elbow is only a slight pain/discomfort when I fully extend my arm, but other than that it feels remarkably fine. Definitely some improvement from times past. I'll have to do a heavy bench press day to really see how far my elbow has come. This is still only day 7 of injecting BPC, so still too early to call, but I'm becoming more convinced of it. I intend to make a post on here after at least a month or so.

You have tendon issues in your arm, yet are using APD+ with RPM strings???

 

[Moldy]

I've been playing with the different iterations of the APD+ line my entire tennis career (~10 years) with all sorts of different poly (Hyper-G, RPM, and Cyclone) but have only begun having arm issues rise up in the past year. I bought an Angell TC100 RA64 strung with gut/alu power as a way to combat the arm issues - and using that racket does indeed help - but I just haven't been able to groove with it like I do my trusty APD's and find my performance suffers. Though I know that's probably a matter of just needing to practice more with it. I played Monday night with the APD+/RPM's just to experiment further on myself. (I'm a sucker for experimenting on myself)

The TENS machine is something I've never heard of and will definitely look more into it! Glad to hear that's provided some relief for you AZJ.

To touch on how BPC157 affects the blood flow aspect of joint healing: "current research suggests BPC-157 influences several growth factors usually involved in angiogenesis (the production of blood vessels) and other factors involved in regeneration following damage." (taken from https://examine.com/supplements/bpc-157/). Google "bpc157 and angiogenesis" and a fair amount of pubmed.gov studies pop up that corroborate this.

So the idea is you subcutaneously inject ~250mcg of BPC157 1x-2x/day with an insulin syringe as close to the site of injury as possible and it will aid in the formation of blood vessels to joints/ligaments which typically don't have the best of blood flow to them. Which is thought to be the reason why they heal sooooo slowly since they don't get the healing factors sent to that part of the body like they do elsewhere.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Tennis elbow does not have swelling.
Even if it did, why would you want to reduce swelling?
I can't stand people who mindlessly advise heat and ice when they have no idea what the effect is.

 

[AZJ1973]

Tennis elbow does not have swelling.
Even if it did, why would you want to reduce swelling?
I can't stand people who mindlessly advise heat and ice when they have no idea what the effect is.

My apologies. I was not trying to advise. I was just trying to share what medical professionals have told me.

I just finished my fifth PT appointment yesterday. Left confused. During my first 4 appointments my PT told me her goal was to make sure I didn’t have to have a procedure done to my elbow. The first 4 appointments went fine, but nothing she did seemed to make any progress. I came back for my fifth appointment and told her I have been pain free for 4 days due to the TENS machine I spoke of above.

She confirmed what was said above, indicating it wasn’t helping to heal the tendon, only tricking my brain to not feel pain. She mentioned her goal is to strengthen my healthy tendons. When I asked her what can we do to help heal the damaged tendon she said there is nothing I can do that is nonsurgical and would need to consider the PRP or TENEX. And based on previous appointments and communication with my doctor we both knew PRP was the recommended procedure but also the one that is not covered by insurance.

I respect doctors but man it feels like a roller coaster ride.

 

[tennishabit]

much better to c a sports injury specialist even much better if the 'she' is a tennis player, ofc must b a good 1 w/ kc.....lolololol......

otherwise simply......rest n it might take mths/yrs, simple.

i came across so many te/ge-ers n never seen any successful med procedure except massages help a bit, if lucky didn't make things worse........

 

[ByeByePoly]

My apologies. I was not trying to advise. I was just trying to share what medical professionals have told me.

I just finished my fifth PT appointment yesterday. Left confused. During my first 4 appointments my PT told me her goal was to make sure I didn’t have to have a procedure done to my elbow. The first 4 appointments went fine, but nothing she did seemed to make any progress. I came back for my fifth appointment and told her I have been pain free for 4 days due to the TENS machine I spoke of above.

She confirmed what was said above, indicating it wasn’t helping to heal the tendon, only tricking my brain to not feel pain. She mentioned her goal is to strengthen my healthy tendons. When I asked her what can we do to help heal the damaged tendon she said there is nothing I can do that is nonsurgical and would need to consider the PRP or TENEX. And based on previous appointments and communication with my doctor we both knew PRP was the recommended procedure but also the one that is not covered by insurance.

I respect doctors but man it feels like a roller coaster ride.

The medical and science community does not fully understand TE yet, so neither does PT folks or ttw members (even the one's who claim they absolutely know).

The best is track record (past surgery results, but then you don't know if you would have healed anyway), and anecdotal evidence from professional PT folks, and tennis player experiences (ttw members that have battled TE). There are way too many of us that had positive results with massage, flexbar, changing racquets, dropping poly to ignore ... just read the ttw content. I mean ... just read the number of posts where the Prince racquet with the big ports was the only one that worked for a player. There is no better anecdotal evidence than a player with TE 's elbow immediate feedback. The problem I would think is there are some more severe TE tendon injuries that are either beyond our usual solutions, or just take much longer to heal than average.

What PT exercises did the gal have you do? I always wonder if they have anything better than a flexbar and a rollerbar?

I would think large PT outfits/chains might have expensive equipment that works. Here is what I mean. The medical community has seen good tendon injury healing results with eccentric loading exercises. For example, with Achilles injuries, slowly letting your heal drop below a step level. I read an article on why the flexbar was created. Expensive equipment existed to provide a eccentric exercise for injured TE tendons. They were looking for a solution that did not require access to the expensive equipment.

Here ... found the article/blog I had read:

https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/08/25/phys-ed-an-easy-fix-for-tennis-elbow/

 

[AZJ1973]

Isn't the flex bar the same as just doing the reverse wrist curls with a 3-5 pound weight. In which you gradually lower the weight down, just using your wrist. Once you are lowered all the way, you lift the weight back up with your other hand and repeat.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Isn't the flex bar the same as just doing the reverse wrist curls with a 3-5 pound weight. In which you gradually lower the weight down, just using your wrist. Once you are lowered all the way, you lift the weight back up with your other hand and repeat.

I have had that same thought ... with the key being using other hand to set it. I would think you would just set the weight to neutral (not flexed back), and then let drop below vertical. It's a fair question that challenges the idea that the flexbar was any different than that weight exercise. I have not heard any discussion or explanation why they would be different. It would be easier to keep the flexbar in a tennis bag.

 

[t_pac]

I've used BPC 157 on a couple of occasions. Pretty sure I mentioned it in a previous TE thread but admittedly didn't go in to any detail.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[tennishabit]

I've used BPC 157 on a couple of occasions. Pretty sure I mentioned it in a previous TE thread but admittedly didn't go in to any detail.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

BPC 157, no doubt it's kind of steroids n 'profiting' in short term but much bigger 'loss' in long run:?)))...............at least it allows u ignore the 'warning signs' sent 2 u + abuse ur elbow even more:?)))...................

 

[andreh]

Isn't the flex bar the same as just doing the reverse wrist curls with a 3-5 pound weight. In which you gradually lower the weight down, just using your wrist. Once you are lowered all the way, you lift the weight back up with your other hand and repeat.

In a word, yes. It´s an eccentric exercise.

 

[t_pac]

BPC 157, no doubt it's kind of steroids n 'profiting' in short term but much bigger 'loss' in long run:?)))...............at least it allows u ignore the 'warning signs' sent 2 u + abuse ur elbow even more:?)))...................

Why would something that speeds up healing be bad in the long run?

BPC is not a steroid, not even close.

Do you ever bother reading the drivel you type before posting?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[indyadg]

My tennis elbow went away with a combination of the graston technique and other strength building exercises. Each session of the graston technique lasted 10 minutes max. Lots of ice. I went to PT twice a week for 8 weeks. Strength exercises targeted chest stretching, shoulder work with bands, triceps, forearm, wrist flexion, and finger strengthening with putty. Pain free for the last four years.

 

[tennishabit]

My tennis elbow went away with a combination of the graston technique and other strength building exercises. Each session of the graston technique lasted 10 minutes max. Lots of ice. I went to PT twice a week for 8 weeks. Strength exercises targeted chest stretching, shoulder work with bands, triceps, forearm, wrist flexion, and finger strengthening with putty. Pain free for the last four years.

how many hrs/wk tennis do u play in last 4 yrs:?))) same hrs/wk b4/aft ur tennis elbow:?)))..........

 

[indyadg]

how many hrs/wk tennis do u play in last 4 yrs:?))) same hrs/wk b4/aft ur tennis elbow:?)))..........

Play 8-12 hours per week. About the same amount both before and after tennis elbow troubles. FWIW... Those hours are primarily doubles play and feeding balls.

 

[tennishabit]

Play 8-12 hours per week. About the same amount both before and after tennis elbow troubles. FWIW... Those hours are primarily doubles play and feeding balls.

apparently the strengthening can handle ur current 'arm requirement' on tennis............but if the effort/time/$$$ spent on 'technique reform' ie use ur hand/wrist/arm in a way that a hand/wrist/arm has been supposedly 2 b used/evolved for mil yrs aft we were off the tree n stood up, the te/ge won't exist at 1st place..................................

 

[Nostradamus]

Well easier if I just post a link to someone else making the sme points:

1. on recovery -

a) pay special attention to this guy explaining why nutrition is so so important
b) pay special attention to his trigger point therapy - but apply it to the forearm
c) ignore the scraping part

d) several ice bath of the entire forearm (entire forearm is critical) - as like shown here

e) doing some hichhikers for shoulder mobility - don't remember his argument for such

what about lower back spasms ?? does this work well for lower back ?

 

[Mathguy]

I`ve had tennis elbow before and this was how I made the recovery process as effective and fun as possible: 1. I had TE in my left elbow, so I simply played all forehands and improved my inside out shots by a lot. If you injured your dominant arm, try practicing with your other arm. It will improve your athleticism regardless. 2. Get some tennis lessons if you can afford it or watch tennis videos online. A large contributor to TE is poor technique. 3. Improve your strength and fitness through exercise and therapy. I would buy some light weights and bands to increase the strength and flexibility of your arms.

 

[tennishabit]

I`ve had tennis elbow before and this was how I made the recovery process as effective and fun as possible: 1. I had TE in my left elbow, so I simply played all forehands and improved my inside out shots by a lot. If you injured your dominant arm, try practicing with your other arm. It will improve your athleticism regardless. 2. Get some tennis lessons if you can afford it or watch tennis videos online. A large contributor to TE is poor technique. 3. Improve your strength and fitness through exercise and therapy. I would buy some light weights and bands to increase the strength and flexibility of your arms.

assumably u mirror imaged ie copy/past the te/ge arm:?)))...............any risk to te/ge both:?)))

easy 2 find out to hit 500-1000 fh everyday for a few wks, if nothing happens then u'll know it'll be te/ge free................................

 

[Jacks1989]

Just want to share my experience. Currently still have TE, however, I am now able to play tennis again at 90%.

I started to get TE about 8 weeks ago, ignored the signs of early symptoms as I had never had it before in my 10+ years of playing and thought it would simply just 'go away'. Unfortunately for me me it didn't and when playing with a full bed of poly's did not help my situation either.

I then transitioned over to a hybrid multi/poly setup on 52/50 tension, while it was more comfortable, I still kept playing and two weeks later it got really bad to the point I couldn't hold a cup without pain.

So after that I stopped playing completely for the next 5 weeks and have had sessions for acupuncture, ultra sound therapy, dry needling and general chiropractic massages while doing Theraband Flexbar and Hand Grip exercises everyday.

I have found Theraband Flexbar exercises to be extremely useful and far more effective than the other treatments I had received combined with regular stretches (I spend up to 45 minutes doing Flexbar everyday and stretch regularly throughout the day).

I had first started with Tyler Twists which was pretty painful and eventually worked my way until there is minimal pain, then started to play around with other different motions where there is pain and worked on it until I've build some strength around it.

Also, changed my racquet helped I went from Vcore 98 to Vcore pro 97 with a full bed of Natural Gut (58lbs). I just finished up my first tennis session last night pain-free and in fact my TE actually feels better after the session.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

You took 5 weeks off.
You can now play and have 0% after effects?
It is totally gone? Like you never had it?

 

[ByeByePoly]

Just want to share my experience. Currently still have TE, however, I am now able to play tennis again at 90%.

I started to get TE about 8 weeks ago, ignored the signs of early symptoms as I had never had it before in my 10+ years of playing and thought it would simply just 'go away'. Unfortunately for me me it didn't and when playing with a full bed of poly's did not help my situation either.

I then transitioned over to a hybrid multi/poly setup on 52/50 tension, while it was more comfortable, I still kept playing and two weeks later it got really bad to the point I couldn't hold a cup without pain.

So after that I stopped playing completely for the next 5 weeks and have had sessions for acupuncture, ultra sound therapy, dry needling and general chiropractic massages while doing Theraband Flexbar and Hand Grip exercises everyday.

I have found Theraband Flexbar exercises to be extremely useful and far more effective than the other treatments I had received combined with regular stretches (I spend up to 45 minutes doing Flexbar everyday and stretch regularly throughout the day).

I had first started with Tyler Twists which was pretty painful and eventually worked my way until there is minimal pain, then started to play around with other different motions where there is pain and worked on it until I've build some strength around it.

Also, changed my racquet helped I went from Vcore 98 to Vcore pro 97 with a full bed of Natural Gut (58lbs). I just finished up my first tennis session last night pain-free and in fact my TE actually feels better after the session.

Glad things improved ... 45 minutes a day flexbar seems questionable. I did 3 sets of 15 once a day. Who knows ... it's TE.

 

[Jacks1989]

You took 5 weeks off.
You can now play and have 0% after effects?
It is totally gone? Like you never had it?

At the worse of my TE I had sharp pains on my elbow when the ball came to contact with my racquet.

Ever since I had started the flexbar anywhere between 30-45 minutes a day (about a 5 to 10 minute break between each rep) and a 5 week break from tennis I had came back with little to no sharp pains when playing and once I had a really good warm up (lets say maybe about an hour into the session) I could almost feel no pain. I also changed to a softer frame + full bed of natural gut strings as well which would have helped as I previously used a full bed of Poly's.

However, the following day my symptoms of TE is still there, forearm muscles are very tender, pain when I apply pressure or when bending arm etc.

TE is a litte unknown, everyone is different I suppose but at least I can play some tennis now.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

That's what I thought.
You are not cured.
Odds are, you will need an entire year off.

I needed 5 months and I quit the 2nd day of my TE.
I know guys who played with TE and have been sidelined for OVER a year.
After 5 months, I felt nothing the next day. And I resumed playing 6x a week

Walk away for a year or it will become permanent.
Do not play if there is ANY pain the next day.

 

[undecided]

BCP 157 seems like it has legit research behind it. Unfortunately it's a gray market product. The mainstream docs are not aware of it as the big pharma can't really gouge you for it. I don't think you can trust any of the other sources for it for purity and safety.

 

[pastashop42]

So, here’s something surprising... I had upped my playtime this winter and spring, and wound up with a bit of GE/TE... Tried lots of things, and the one that helped the most is deep massage of the scalene muscle... even a tennis ball wedged in there against a wall or back of a chair... Big relief from GE. I’m surprised, but I’ll take it!

 

[ByeByePoly]

So, here’s something surprising... I had upped my playtime this winter and spring, and wound up with a bit of GE/TE... Tried lots of things, and the one that helped the most is deep massage of the scalene muscle... even a tennis ball wedged in there against a wall or back of a chair... Big relief from GE. I’m surprised, but I’ll take it!

The anterior, middle or posterior scalene? I have no idea what that means ... looked at Wikipedia.

I have a tennis ball in a thorlo sock ... and put the ball between neck knots and the wall. While putting pressure on the knot ... I turn my head left and right ... can often feel them release. Magic