Tennis Needs Gay Male Players

[MatsPhilander]

It would be "helpful" if a male tennis player came out as gay, says former professional Brian Vahaly, who did so 10 years after his retirement. The 39-year-old American says he received thousands of "pretty nasty" messages after he came out in 2017. Vahaly said he feared there would be financial implications had he made it known while still playing. "I have seen and felt homophobic remarks throughout my entire career," he told the BBC's Sportsworld.

"Tennis is a very conservative sport. "For the first few days after the announcement, I probably received two to three thousand pretty nasty emails and communications from people who were disgusted by me and my family. "I didn't hear much from former players - most of the positive outreach came from the LGBT community or friends." No openly gay man has played in a Grand Slam during the Open Era.

In contrast, Billie Jean King and Martina Navratilova - two of the greatest female players of all time - came out as gay during their careers. And former world number 63 Vahaly believes their success forced others to be accepting of their sexuality. "Martina and Billie Jean were at the top of their game," he says. "They could set a culture - other players had to be accepting because they were the best. When they came out it was difficult for them, so they deserve a lot of praise for their courage. "On the men's side it would be helpful if someone at the top of the game would make an announcement like that."

 

[ChaelAZ]

So why is sexuality relevant for play and competition, or is it just for marketing and social status?


Probably posting from the court between sets.

 

[Deleted member 756486]

I don’t really care what a player does in the privacy of his/her own bedroom.

 

[JoelDali]

Wal Mart needs more gay greeters

 

[Poisoned Slice]

I don’t really care what a player does in the privacy of his/her own bedroom.

HLA AND HGA for the win baby. Whatever makes you happy in the privacy of your own room, sir.

 

[QuadCam]

I think it would be great for tennis if we had better players to challenge the Big 3. I don't care what their sexuality is.

 

[r2473]

So why is sexuality relevant for play and competition, or is it just for marketing and social status?


Probably posting from the court between sets.

I don’t really care what a player does in the privacy of his/her own bedroom.

I think it would be great for tennis if we had better players to challenge the Big 3. I don't care what their sexuality is.

These posts don’t show enough gay support and are therefore homophobic.

Wal Mart needs more gay greeters

Totally agree!! Thank you for supporting LGBT-LMNOP

 

[MichaelNadal]

HLA AND HGA for the win baby. Whatever makes you happy in the privacy of your own room, sir.

#HLA

 

[JoelDali]

TW needs more gay posters.

 

[Crocodile]

I think it should be up to the individual's choice to decide how much of their private life they wish to share with the world.
Saying that I think Martina and Billie Jean came out at a time that I think would have been much more challenging then now.
What may become more of an issue is the transgender, gender fluid debate. Sport and gender is an area that is just starting to rev up.
At present I don't know which male tennis pros may be gay, and to be honest I'm not sure what the implications it would have on the individual and others. I know in Australia, Olympic Swimming Champion, Ian Thorpe, came out and I don't think anybody really bothered about it, it's just like everything with the way the media cycle works, there is new news every 24 hours. For Ian it was probably his immediate family that things hit home and perhaps his fans in Japan where he had superstar status.

 

[stringertom]

TW needs more gay posters.

Posted between Grindr swipe right sessions

FTFY

 

[JoelDali]

FTFY

Calling this post in to Wilson quality control for advise.

Disgust and large scandal.

 

[Sentinel]

FTFY

We need more homophone threads.

 

[MatsPhilander]

HLA AND HGA for the win baby. Whatever makes you happy in the privacy of your own room, sir.

 

[Bartelby]

Being gay is an 'identity marker'.

People use any and all conceivable aspects of their idenity to mark and even market themselves.

So why not use being gay?

I'd prefer if nationality and religion were not mentioned and yet they are thrown in our faces!

 

[Midaso240]

I refer to this question asked to Tom Hardy one time. In short,who really gives a f**k about the sexuality of celebrities?

 

[MatsPhilander]

Being gay is an 'identity marker'.

People use any and all conceivable aspects of their idenity to mark and even market themselves.

So why not use being gay?

I'd prefer if nationality and religion were not mentioned and yet they are thrown in our faces!

 

[Deleted member 733170]

I assume everyone is gay until they tell me they are straight.

 

[Stretchy Man]

Would this mean more moments in doubles like this or less?

 

[kramer woodie]

No skin off my nose if your gay or straight. I have absolutely no interest in knowing and has no meaning for the betterment of tennis. However, being the eternal optimist...heaven may be less crowded.

For those who don't believe, all I can say is again...heaven may be less crowded. I am thankful for those who of their own free will choose
to deny, refute, or just rebel! Maybe there will be more available court time "In Heaven". That's got me thinking of Eric Clapton.

Aloha

 

[kramer woodie]

Actually more gay males should become plumbers. They would probably be far happier.

Aloha

 

[kramer woodie]

Suggested reading: August 22nd, 2018 study published by PLoS ONE from Brown University by Lisa Littman, Assistant Professor of Behavioral
and Social Sciences. Gender dysphoria and mental health.

You better check it out quick, before it is shouted down by those who use Political Correctness to shut down Free Speech.

Aloha

 

[dominikk1985]

Yes it is needed. Some (not all) Conservative people always say "I don't care what sexuality or skin color, Just let the best compete/work". This is true but only if there is really an open talent market that does not discriminate. But those conservatives only say it because the status quo is few blacks/gays. Interestingly those same conservatives complain about gays who live that out publicly and then say "I have no problem with it but do it in your own house, I don't tell everyone I'm heterosexual" and they complain likewise about scholarships for blacks.

In the end this is all about keeping white and heterosexual as the norm in the society. Gay or black role models are important because it shows society that it is normal that those are present and that is exactly what some want to prevent.

 

[onehandbh]

Wal Mart needs more gay greeters

The airline industry needs more gay flight attendants.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Ted Tinling, who had a short career as a pro player in the late 1920s, was openly gay. Bill Tilden was very possibly gay as well. Allegations of inappropriate relations with 2 underage boys led to morals charges. Spent some time in prison for one of those charges. Some insist that incidents/morals charges were fabricated.

Either way the stigma remained. This may be a large part of why dozens of female players have come out as gay, but almost no male players have.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:LGBT_tennis_players

 

[NonP]

Yes it is needed. Some (not all) Conservative people always say "I don't care what sexuality or skin color, Just let the best compete/work". This is true but only if there is really an open talent market that does not discriminate. But those conservatives only say it because the status quo is few blacks/gays. Interestingly those same conservatives complain about gays who live that out publicly and then say "I have no problem with it but do it in your own house, I don't tell everyone I'm heterosexual" and they complain likewise about scholarships for blacks.

In the end this is all about keeping white and heterosexual as the norm in the society. Gay or black role models are important because it shows society that it is normal that those are present and that is exactly what some want to prevent.

Yes, very much so. The same dynamic is true of the MAGA phenomenon where the (largely white) Trump supporters, despite their constant boasts of winning, know deep down that their power is diminishing, hence their fierce backlash and disingenuous hand-wringing over "free speech." It's all designed to maintain the status quo which privileges the white/male/cisgender demographic over the others.

 

[AM75]

There is a plenty of openly gay players in the Gay Lesbian Tennis Association, I‘d say most of them are openly gay. Not that all of them play good though.

 

[Seth]

delete post

 

[PDJ]

I think it should be up to the individual's choice to decide how much of their private life they wish to share with the world.
Saying that I think Martina and Billie Jean came out at a time that I think would have been much more challenging then now.
What may become more of an issue is the transgender, gender fluid debate. Sport and gender is an area that is just starting to rev up.
At present I don't know which male tennis pros may be gay, and to be honest I'm not sure what the implications it would have on the individual and others. I know in Australia, Olympic Swimming Champion, Ian Thorpe, came out and I don't think anybody really bothered about it, it's just like everything with the way the media cycle works, there is new news every 24 hours. For Ian it was probably his immediate family that things hit home and perhaps his fans in Japan where he had superstar status.

BJK didn't come out. She was outed. And lost every sponsorship deal. The reason she played on and on was because, financially, she had to.
They were dark days.
Few stood by her, but the then no.1, Chris Evert did, risking a very public backlash.
Few were that brave.

 

[TahoeTennis]

Tennis needs more players, period. We welcome everyone.

 

[PDJ]

The airline industry needs more gay flight attendants.

Margaret 'no flight' Court agrees with you

 

[JoelDali]

Just imagine Caitlyn Jenner, LeeD and Sureshez DNA is put into a consumer grade smoothie machine to produce a triple axel man child that becomes the Internet Tennis Federeration’s (ITF) first openly gay Real Slam(TM) champion who wears lacy white outfits with tutu flared lower body accents.

 

[GBplayer]

Aren't many happy with life then?

 

[Harry_Wild]

Tennis had a couple in the 1930-40s era! Don't recall who they were but I think one was from Germany or Britain. It been a while since I read the tennis history but I sure that in the past there were gay male tennis players. I think one came out of the closet and lost everything!

 

[AM75]

Jan-Michael Gambill is gay (and I always thought he is; but I don't think he came out during his active years).

 

[stringertom]

Tennis had a couple in the 1930-40s era! Don't recall who they were but I think one was from Germany or Britain. It been a while since I read the tennis history but I sure that in the past there were gay male tennis players. I think one came out of the closet and lost everything!

Gottfried von Cramm was the German #1 and he was persecuted by Hitler for his suspected homosexuality, a one-time fling in the midst of an unhappy heterosexual marriage. He was convicted on a morals charge but later pardoned. The time served (8 months) disqualified him from his visa application to play at Forest Hills here in the US before the Americans entered World War II.

von Cramm later went on to marry Barbara Hutton, the Woolworth's heiress after World War II. It was a valiant attempt on his part to help heal his friend from her substance abuse difficulties but it was not successful. He died years later in an automobile accident in Egypt.

 

[AM75]

Gottfried von Cramm was the German #1 and he was persecuted by Hitler for his suspected homosexuality, a one-time fling in the midst of an unhappy heterosexual marriage. He was convicted on a morals charge but later pardoned. The time served (8 months) disqualified him from his visa application to play at Forest Hills here in the US before the Americans entered World War II.

von Cramm later went on to marry Barbara Hutton, the Woolworth's heiress after World War II. It was a valiant attempt on his part to help heal his friend from her substance abuse difficulties but it was not successful. He died years later in an automobile accident in Egypt.

There is a quite good book about him et al A Terrible Splendor by M. Fisher

 

[Gemini]

Whether people want to acknowledge it or not, we live in a heteronormative world. Being straight is seen as the default accepted value and anything outside becomes something to be questioned/scrutinized.

Extend that scrutiny to the play/competition aspects and now you're dealing with guys in the locker room who will panic knowing there's an openly gay male player in their midst. Also, as an up and coming player who's having to grind out wins in the futures/challengers is places that are less than hospitable to gays, why would a player be openly gay knowing that it could mean losing your life literally. Sure..you could cherry-pick tournaments in friendlier locales but if it means a better chance at picking up valuable ATP points, why not just stay quiet about it?

As for marketing/social status...well.. sports are hypermasculine at their core. It would take someone like a Federer, Djokovic, Nadal to transcend the machismo of sports.

 

[MatsPhilander]

I think the last bit of the above post hit in on the head-while being gay is accepted in regular life, sport is full of posturing macho types.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Well, nothing like a grass roots effort, right. So let's start a thread so we can highlight all the gay posters on TTW, as a way to show the world how the tennis community is so open and friendly.

What could possbily go wrong?

 

[MatsPhilander]

Well, nothing like a grass roots effort, right. So let's start a thread so we can highlight all the gay posters on TTW, as a way to show the world how the tennis community is so open and friendly.

What could possbily go wrong?

Not gay, but I do like looking at erected organs.

 

[Gemini]

I think the last bit of the above post hit in on the head-while being gay is accepted in regular life, sport is full of posturing macho types.

I wouldn't say that being gay is accepted in "regular" life but at best it's being tolerated by the society in general. Sports is a specialized microcosm (redundant?) of society as a whole and tennis is no different from other sports. I don't think the average male professional tennis player is going to be able to change an unwelcoming dynamic. It's going to take a superstar of the game.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Not gay, but I do like looking at erected organs.

Of course. Doesn't everyone?

 

[r2473]

As for marketing/social status...well.. sports are hypermasculine at their core. It would take someone like a Federer, Djokovic, Nadal to transcend the machismo of sports.

If I were a journeyman like Millman for example, I'd toy with the idea of saying I'm gay (even if I wasn't), expressly for the publicity and the (hoped for) marketing deals that I'd never get being another straight journeyman tennis player. I'd find a "beard" to be my (supposed) gay lover and see what I could do with my unique status.

Thing I'd want to know first is, when I get found out (as I'm sure would happen at some point), would I be able to keep all the money I earned from endorsements? I guess I'd have to get a lawyer involved on the front end to make sure I would.

With all of the "gay" threads I see just on this site, there is certainly a segment of the population that is hungry for a gay tennis hero. I could be that guy.

Reporter: "r2473, what is it like being gay on the ATP tour"?

Me: "Everyone has been very supportive of my decision to come out. Especially Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray. Everybody has been wonderful. On the ATP tour, we believe in building bridges and being a leader in the LGBT movement. I hope to do everything I can to be both an ambassador for tennis and LGBT persons everywhere and encourage others to join us in our mission"

Reporter: That's wonderful r2473. You are a true inspiration and hero. So what are you going to do for the rest of the day? Practice tennis?

Me: Practice tennis? Why on earth would I bother doing that? No, I plan on spending the rest of the day shooting fish in a barrel.

 

[MatsPhilander]

I wouldn't say that being gay is accepted in "regular" life but at best it's being tolerated by the society in general. Sports is a specialized microcosm (redundant?) of society as a whole and tennis is no different from other sports. I don't think the average male professional tennis player is going to be able to change an unwelcoming dynamic. It's going to take a superstar of the game.

It certainly appears to be by the overwhelming majority of people in the west these days. Growing up in the 1980's nobody would come out gay for fear of being attacked, same for a lot of the 1990's as well.

 

[stringertom]

Not gay, but I do like looking at erected organs.

@r2473 will be happy to host your stay in Utah so you can tour the Mormon Tabernacle. They erected a very large organ inside the beautiful temple.

 

[stringertom]

It certainly appears to be by the overwhelming majority of people in the west these days. Growing up in the 1980's nobody would come out gay for fear of being attacked, same for a lot of the 1990's as well.

I worked in the NYC ad agency business in the 70's. Gays were in the majority on the creative side. This was less than a decade after the Stonewall riots.

 

[AM75]

On the one hand I find a lot of supposedly funny posts here not really funny.

On the other hand I'm baffled why it is still such an issue. I won't play better or worse because of my sexuality. And I also always assumed that tennis is a sport of the educated middle class, and they don't care about one's sexuality at all.

 

[r2473]

On the other hand I'm baffled why it is still such an issue. I won't play better or worse because of my sexuality. And I also always assumed that tennis is a sport of the educated middle class, and they don't care about one's sexuality at all.

The "educated middle class" as you call them believe strongly in "bourgeois morality". This of course varies from place to place and time to time. If you understand what that means, you'll understand the "moral outrage" on both sides much better.

As I've said before, nobody was standing up for gay rights 300 years ago, just as the "morally superior" avoid standing up for things now if they are afraid it will hurt them.

I'm not really criticizing "the hypocrisy of today's society" by the way. This is the way it's always been (and will always be).

Not knowing you, I'd feel pretty comfortable guessing that you fit this mold rather well yourself (though it's the last thing in the word you'd actually admit to yourself.....another staple of bourgeois morality). When you get bored with being on the "cutting edge of morality" by "bravely standing up for gay rights", I'm sure you'll find another cutting edge issue (that has become socially acceptable of course) to bravely stand up for.

 

[gut wax]

It would be "helpful" if a male tennis player came out as gay, says former professional Brian Vahaly, who did so 10 years after his retirement. The 39-year-old American says he received thousands of "pretty nasty" messages after he came out in 2017. Vahaly said he feared there would be financial implications had he made it known while still playing. "I have seen and felt homophobic remarks throughout my entire career," he told the BBC's Sportsworld.

"Tennis is a very conservative sport. "For the first few days after the announcement, I probably received two to three thousand pretty nasty emails and communications from people who were disgusted by me and my family. "I didn't hear much from former players - most of the positive outreach came from the LGBT community or friends." No openly gay man has played in a Grand Slam during the Open Era.

In contrast, Billie Jean King and Martina Navratilova - two of the greatest female players of all time - came out as gay during their careers. And former world number 63 Vahaly believes their success forced others to be accepting of their sexuality. "Martina and Billie Jean were at the top of their game," he says. "They could set a culture - other players had to be accepting because they were the best. When they came out it was difficult for them, so they deserve a lot of praise for their courage. "On the men's side it would be helpful if someone at the top of the game would make an announcement like that."

I just find it hard to believe Brian Vahaly >received thousands of "pretty nasty" messages after he came out in 2017.<



"That is not the point. I am superior to all posters on the forum, that is the main thing." - sureshs