The Austin-Evert rivalry

[Mustard]

Yeah, for about 5 minutes. Or maybe 5 months tops.

Their 1980 US Open match didn't end that. That just stopped Austin taking over the rivalry so completely. Austin had the last laugh at the prestigious 1981 Toyota Championships, for instance, losing her epic round robin match against Evert, but then demolishing Evert in the semi finals on her way to beating Navratilova in the final.

Tracy was a side show for a short period of time.

And the last Evert-Austin match kinda sums up what the rivalry was about:
Chris Evert def. Tracy Austin 6-0,6-0.

Yes, a double bagel in the SF of the season ending Toyota Championships!

Yup, it happened!

What do you mean by "sums up what the rivalry was about"? The previous year, at the same event and at the same stage of the competition, Austin beat Evert, 6-1, 6-2. And despite Evert's 6-0, 6-0 demolition of Austin in their last match, Austin led 9-8 in the head-to-head at the end.

 

[Vanhool]

Delete post

 

[jrepac]

I think Tracy played Chris's style better than Chris did at times. Definitely more aggressive overall. Very enjoyable to watch Tracy play Martina as well. Tracy and Martina pushed Chris to evolve her game; I think by 1985, Chris was a better player than 1981 Austin (who may have been at her peak). As someone pointed out, Chris played nearly 10 years past her 70's peak, as she was spurred on by the challenge. She played some d@mn good tennis in the 80's, even against tough younger opponents like Graf and Seles. And her matches against Martina were much closer...with the occasional surprise ('88 AO for instance).

 

[kiki]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUm-fr4jC78

Evert-Lloyd vs Tracy Austin 1980 US Open Semi-finals (I was there)

I had almost forgotten how poor Tracy's body mechanics were when she played. That hiccupped service motion with an abbreviated "I" at the end. The forehand motion that was hungry to end. If I were a betting person (Jesus doesn't allow), I would say that her poor technical motions were the largest contributor to her back problems and early retirement.

It was fascinating to watch a young American challenge Chris Evert. You could always feel the tension when they played. Tracy was so eager and youthful while Chris defending her position as the best player of her generation.

I believe Tracy had a few more grand slam singles titles in her future before injury in 1982. She handed Martina Navratilova losses 4/5 times they played in 1981 including the US Open finals. Tracy always seemed to give Chris problems.

Aside from Steffi Graf, Tracy Austin was the only younger player that realistically challenged the Evert-Navratilova generation.

PTL

AngieB

Hana did it but she was also less predictable
That said,Austin bought Evert a new life

 

[PDJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUm-fr4jC78

Evert-Lloyd vs Tracy Austin 1980 US Open Semi-finals (I was there)

I had almost forgotten how poor Tracy's body mechanics were when she played. That hiccupped service motion with an abbreviated "I" at the end. The forehand motion that was hungry to end. If I were a betting person (Jesus doesn't allow), I would say that her poor technical motions were the largest contributor to her back problems and early retirement.

It was fascinating to watch a young American challenge Chris Evert. You could always feel the tension when they played. Tracy was so eager and youthful while Chris defending her position as the best player of her generation.

I believe Tracy had a few more grand slam singles titles in her future before injury in 1982. She handed Martina Navratilova losses 4/5 times they played in 1981 including the US Open finals. Tracy always seemed to give Chris problems.

Aside from Steffi Graf, Tracy Austin was the only younger player that realistically challenged the Evert-Navratilova generation.

PTL

AngieB

As previously mentioned, Austin learnt her craft on hard courts which certainly didn't help re injuries; her technique lacked the fluidity and versatility of Evert's stroke preparation; & possibly the biggest reason her body broke down was because she rarely stretched which BJK has commented on.

 

[kiki]

I think Tracy played Chris's style better than Chris did at times. Definitely more aggressive overall. Very enjoyable to watch Tracy play Martina as well. Tracy and Martina pushed Chris to evolve her game; I think by 1985, Chris was a better player than 1981 Austin (who may have been at her peak). As someone pointed out, Chris played nearly 10 years past her 70's peak, as she was spurred on by the challenge. She played some d@mn good tennis in the 80's, even against tough younger opponents like Graf and Seles. And her matches against Martina were much closer...with the occasional surprise ('88 AO for instance).

I agree on this: nobody´s ever returned Martina´s left handed serve on the BH as well as Tracy.maybe Seles and Evert could be also included, but Tracy knew exactly when to jump on the ball.A wicked and heavy ball.

 

[Rochester]

What else does "legend" say???

 

[DMan]

Chris Evert was spooked by Tracy Austin,

For about 5 months. She then solved that issue at the 1980 US Open.

because Austin was a more tenacious version of Evert.

Tracy more tenacious than Chris? Me thinketh, and knoweth NOT! Yeah, for @ 5 months Tracy played more tenacious tennis. Big deal. Austin was NEVER able to sustain an outstanding and tenaciously excellent game over the course of a full year the way Evert wasd able to do, year after year after year!

And legend has it that a young Austin saw Evert as her idol, but when she met Evert in person, she was very disappointed, and from then on said that Evonne Goolagong was her idol.

Yeah it is a legend. A myth. Tracy definitely patterned her game after Chris. Tracy never said or implied she was disappointed when she met Chris. She expressed admiration for Evonne (who wouldn't?!)

 

[kiki]

Those who followed closely women´s tennis in those years would never ever believe Martina would make Chris retire, no matter how dominating she was.
We were positively sure that one half year more of Austin domination leads Evert to the good bye situation

 

[Mustard]

For about 5 months. She then solved that issue at the 1980 US Open.

That was a big Evert victory, but in overall terms, it just stopped Austin's dominating the rivalry, not turned it full tilt in the opposite direction. Austin's 6-1, 6-2 demolition of Evert at the 1981 Toyota Championships came over a year after their 1980 US Open match.

 

[kiki]

Tracy was not just short of terminating Chris Evert´s career but she also spelt trouble for Martina, since no one attacked so well her serve and kept her pinned at the baseline for so long.Martina was clealry advantaged when Austin retired at the end of 1982

 

[Rochester]

And everts demolition of Austin came a year after that

And "we" is presumptuous unless you are Quern Elizabeth.
Then I apologize your majesty

 

[BTURNER]

I'll just repost my original post way back, because folks don't seem to get the point.

Here's the record up for debate.

TRACY AUSTIN (USA) 8:9

1977 Wimbledon 3R W 6-1, 6-1
1978 Hilton Head, SC SF W 6-3, 6-1
1978 U.S. Open QF W 7-5, 6-1
1979 Avon Chanpionships RR L 6-3, 6-1
1979 La Costa, CA SF W 6-1, 7-5
1979 Italian Open SF L 6-4, 2-6, 7-6
1979 Mahwah, NJ F W 6-7, 6-4, 6-1
1979 U.S. Open F L 6-4, 6-3
1979 Filderstadt, Germany SF L 6-3, 7-5
1980 Avon Championships RR L 6-1, 6-3
1980 Avon Championships SF L 6-3, 6-0
1980 Cincinnati, OH F L 6-2, 6-1
1980 U.S. Open SF W 4-6, 6-1, 6-1
1981 Toronto, Ontario F L 6-1, 6-4
1981 Toyota Championships RR W 4-6, 6-4, 7-6
1981 Toyota Championships SF L 6-1, 6-2
1982 Toyota Championships SF W 6-0, 6-0

There are 4 phases here.
1. the 'Austin is too immature physically/ mentally to compete' phase.
2 The 'Austin is now a proven threat' phase
3. The 'Evert is totally psyched out and completely dominated' phase
4. The 'Evert has come out of the funk and is now a proven threat again' phase

We cannot really claim to have much of a case from stage four where things would have gone, because it was far too brief and no one got even two matches in a row. There is not enough of a pattern in those last five matches to determine much of anything. We are guessing on hints of shadows. That suggests to me that we be circumspect and humble in our opinions rather than rock hard sure how 'right' we are.

 

[DMan]

Tracy was not just short of terminating Chris Evert´s career but she also spelt trouble for Martina, since no one attacked so well her serve and kept her pinned at the baseline for so long.Martina was clealry advantaged when Austin retired at the end of 1982

Austin was 3 levels below Martina in 1982. 3 levels below Chris too.

It's that simple. Her own physicality, her fitness, how she cared for her body, how she trained, how she played, they are ALL part of her life, career, and legacy. If she couldn't keep up with Martina and Chris, for whatever reason, it points to CLEAR faults and frailties.

Tracy Austin NEVER came close to terminating Chris Evert's career. She had one 10 day stretch where she happened to play Chris on an indoor surface most ill suited to Evert's game. At a time when Evert didn't give a crap. (By the same token, imagine Chris and Tracy playing three times in 10 days on Florida clay circa 1983? The results would be identical to the 1980 indoor results Tracy had, only with Chris the victor on clay). Minus those 1980 indoor results - and YES, they count in their official H2H, the whole rivalry takes on a different meaning.

Austin just didn't have the physical gifts - and she's the first to admit it - or the inclination and desire to train the way Martina and Chris did in the 1980s. Austin finished 1982 outside the top 5. HEr "best" win of the year was over #3 Jaeger at the Toyota Championships. And her reward for that? Getting blitzkrieged, pummeled, whipped, whalloped, shellacked, and DOUBLE-BAGELED into oblivion by Chris Evert.

Anyone who knows anything about tennis - and I know kikis don't - gonna tell me that Austin stood a chance at beating Chris, or even taking a set from her?

Go on, tell me.

 

[DMan]

Those who followed closely women´s tennis in those years would never ever believe Martina would make Chris retire, no matter how dominating she was.
We were positively sure that one half year more of Austin domination leads Evert to the good bye situation

You obviously didn't follow women's tennis back then.

And as a matter of record, Chris Evert determined her own career. Not Tracy Austin, Martina, or anyone else.

When Chris returned to the tour in spring of 1980, she lost but 1 match in 42, and had wins over Martina, Evonne, TRACY, and everyone else. She won the French (where was Tracy - again?), the US Clay Courts (where was Tracy - again?) and of course the US Open.

 

[kiki]

Austin was 3 levels below Martina in 1982. 3 levels below Chris too.

It's that simple. Her own physicality, her fitness, how she cared for her body, how she trained, how she played, they are ALL part of her life, career, and legacy. If she couldn't keep up with Martina and Chris, for whatever reason, it points to CLEAR faults and frailties.

Tracy Austin NEVER came close to terminating Chris Evert's career. She had one 10 day stretch where she happened to play Chris on an indoor surface most ill suited to Evert's game. At a time when Evert didn't give a crap. (By the same token, imagine Chris and Tracy playing three times in 10 days on Florida clay circa 1983? The results would be identical to the 1980 indoor results Tracy had, only with Chris the victor on clay). Minus those 1980 indoor results - and YES, they count in their official H2H, the whole rivalry takes on a different meaning.

Austin just didn't have the physical gifts - and she's the first to admit it - or the inclination and desire to train the way Martina and Chris did in the 1980s. Austin finished 1982 outside the top 5. HEr "best" win of the year was over #3 Jaeger at the Toyota Championships. And her reward for that? Getting blitzkrieged, pummeled, whipped, whalloped, shellacked, and DOUBLE-BAGELED into oblivion by Chris Evert.

Anyone who knows anything about tennis - and I know kikis don't - gonna tell me that Austin stood a chance at beating Chris, or even taking a set from her?

Go on, tell me.

I will tell you what your agressive tone suggests to everybody with an open mind here:

You were exactly one of those Evertians whose balls shriegged for almost two-three years and only due to Austin´s body breaking would you and your allies, the navratilites, breathe again.

And all of you, the florida adorers should rewards Tracy for inhalating new life into Evert.Nonetheless, about ten more years going.
I respect on court Evert and I will always aknowledge how much courage and inner strength it takes after being toyed by Tracy Austin when you are just a happy married Young athlete of 25,26,27 but I always found her idolitration similar to that of Jeanne D´Arc by her loyals

 

[kiki]

You obviously didn't follow women's tennis back then.

And as a matter of record, Chris Evert determined her own career. Not Tracy Austin, Martina, or anyone else.

When Chris returned to the tour in spring of 1980, she lost but 1 match in 42, and had wins over Martina, Evonne, TRACY, and everyone else. She won the French (where was Tracy - again?), the US Clay Courts (where was Tracy - again?) and of course the US Open.

The lack of realism of the suposedly mature Evert fans begin to rassemble that of the suposedly inmature selestials

 

[DMan]

The lack of realism of the suposedly mature Evert fans begin to rassemble that of the suposedly inmature selestials

What lack of realism are in the TRUTHS below?

Hmm?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Chris Evert determined her own career. Not Tracy Austin, Martina, or anyone else.

When Chris returned to the tour in spring of 1980, she lost but 1 match in 42, and had wins over Martina, Evonne, TRACY, and everyone else. She won the French (where was Tracy - again?), the US Clay Courts (where was Tracy - again?) and of course the US Open.

Those are all TRUE and REAL statements. Not suppositions about what "woulda, coulda, shoulda" happened. THAT is a conversation for a Selestial to tackle. Are you one of those too? In addition to being an Evert-denier. (It's kind of like a climate change denier.....someone incapable of understanding fact, logic, and reality!)

And darling, do tell why Tracy Austin always managed to *conveniently* avoid Chris at the French Open, and most of the major clay court tournaments. Amelia Island, Tracy? German Open, Tracy? (Only when Chris doesn't play!) US Clay Courts, Tracy? Heavens, NO!

And how often did Miss Austin FAIL to make an appointed, scheduled seeded meeting with Evert, because Austin was UPSET by a lower ranked player below her? Compare that with how often Evert failed to make her appointed meeting (there was only 1) with Tracy?

See what I'm getting at, sweetie?

 

[kiki]

What lack of realism are in the TRUTHS below?

Hmm?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Chris Evert determined her own career. Not Tracy Austin, Martina, or anyone else.

When Chris returned to the tour in spring of 1980, she lost but 1 match in 42, and had wins over Martina, Evonne, TRACY, and everyone else. She won the French (where was Tracy - again?), the US Clay Courts (where was Tracy - again?) and of course the US Open.

Those are all TRUE and REAL statements. Not suppositions about what "woulda, coulda, shoulda" happened. THAT is a conversation for a Selestial to tackle. Are you one of those too? In addition to being an Evert-denier. (It's kind of like a climate change denier.....someone incapable of understanding fact, logic, and reality!)

And darling, do tell why Tracy Austin always managed to *conveniently* avoid Chris at the French Open, and most of the major clay court tournaments. Amelia Island, Tracy? German Open, Tracy? (Only when Chris doesn't play!) US Clay Courts, Tracy? Heavens, NO!

And how often did Miss Austin FAIL to make an appointed, scheduled seeded meeting with Evert, because Austin was UPSET by a lower ranked player below her? Compare that with how often Evert failed to make her appointed meeting (there was only 1) with Tracy?

See what I'm getting at, sweetie?

Great cherrypicking DMan.First, and for the last time on this forum, I state that I only have admiration for on court Evert ( a different thing is off court Evert but that is not the issue), her courage, determination, PR sense and strength of character made her one of the truly all time great champions.That is probably much more than you, Evertians, will ever say about any of Evert´s rivals, except her close friend Navratilova.

Second, Tracy bested her at Rome.If she didn´t enter the 1979 FO ( as well as that of 1980,81) was exclusively due to her exams.Yes, Tracy had both a tennis and an intelectual career ( it cost her a lot in term of training which in turn caused her big body problems that led to early retirement), while, as we know, Chris Evert only thought about the yellow ball.

But we all know that, after breaking Chris Evert´s 125 streak on clay ( and nobody else than Austin did), she would have been heavily favoured over Evert at that year´s FO.It is Chris luck that Austin chose her exams and not vice versa.It gave her also the 1980 crown.As for 1981, the way Hana played the event, I don´t think Tracy would have beaten her in case she also played the 1981 FO; we saw what happened at the 1982 FO (Hana´s game was the only one capable of breaking the perfect groundstrokes machinery of Austin on clay when Austin was at her very best IMO)

So, in short, Austin made her choices that may have favoured Evert.When big indoor majors were at stake ( you are sooo reluctanct to bring out those very big& important Avon and VS finals, aren´t you?) and the 79 and 81 USO was at stake...well, we know how feary and intimidated Tracy was¡¡¡¡¡

( her 1980 defeat is a mixture of overconfidence and pressure from Tracy who had taken the first set in their semi and UNEXPLAINABLE lost the next two sets 6-1,6-1...how could that ever happen? something as I mentioned or otherwise, there is not a human explanation)

 

[PDJ]

I like a lot of Evert's main rivals, especially Cawley. At the time, I couldn't stand Navratilova. To this day, I don't seek out matches on YouTube on the strength of Navratilova alone. Respect her, admire her, but never really enjoyed her on-court prescence.

 

[BTURNER]

I like a lot of Evert's main rivals, especially Cawley. At the time, I couldn't stand Navratilova. To this day, I don't seek out matches on YouTube on the strength of Navratilova alone. Respect her, admire her, but never really enjoyed her on-court prescence.

with Martina, it was that jaw-dropping athleticism that blew me away. I still can't figure out how she got some of those passing shots and lobs back into the court, or what feat of Artemis- possessed speed got hold of her along that baseline. Or how she got enough strength and reflexes in her wrists to dig that bomber out of her chest? She did the heretofore impossible on court time and time again, and that I enjoyed!

 

[kiki]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUm-fr4jC78

Evert certainly had that two handed when needed.Stuck for ever

 

[mccarthy]

I am too young to have experienced their rivalry on the court on anything but youtube videos and old tapes, but their rivalry in the commentary booth is Austin as the winner hands down IMO. Evert is a horrendous commentator, perhaps the worst in history, and I amazed she somehow held a job down at NBC so long (and not surprised she took over 10 years to get another offer once fired). Austin is an outstanding commentator.

As for their rivalry on court it is pretty interesting Austin retired with a winning record vs Evert, even with a number of matches when she was only 14-15 (pre 79), and being a shadow of herself her final 2 years. Pretty shocking when you consider one is a 2 slam winner and the other is a GOAT candidate. Austin's game doesn't impress me at all watching her now. I don't think it is just the era, as many others from that time impress me more. Even Shriver with his big serve and strong volleys, and shrewd court sense impresses me more, although obviously Austin was more effective and got the better results so you have to say she is better. From watching Austin play I would say she looks like she was an overachiever if anything. I doubt she ever was going to have the staying power with her one dimensional game, slight build, limitations, etc...

 

[kiki]

I am too young to have experienced their rivalry on the court on anything but youtube videos and old tapes, but their rivalry in the commentary booth is Austin as the winner hands down IMO. Evert is a horrendous commentator, perhaps the worst in history, and I amazed she somehow held a job down at NBC so long (and not surprised she took over 10 years to get another offer once fired). Austin is an outstanding commentator.

As for their rivalry on court it is pretty interesting Austin retired with a winning record vs Evert, even with a number of matches when she was only 14-15 (pre 79), and being a shadow of herself her final 2 years. Pretty shocking when you consider one is a 2 slam winner and the other is a GOAT candidate. Austin's game doesn't impress me at all watching her now. I don't think it is just the era, as many others from that time impress me more. Even Shriver with his big serve and strong volleys, and shrewd court sense impresses me more, although obviously Austin was more effective and got the better results so you have to say she is better. From watching Austin play I would say she looks like she was an overachiever if anything. I doubt she ever was going to have the staying power with her one dimensional game, slight build, limitations, etc...

Austin also won the Avon Championships and the Toyota Championships as well, and she won the Italian and Canadian Open

 

[DMan]

Great cherrypicking DMan.

To the greatest cherrypicker of all-time:

Tracy bested her at Rome.If she didn´t enter the 1979 FO ( as well as that of 1980,81) was exclusively due to her exams.

You know this, because.....

Yes, Tracy had both a tennis and an intelectual career ( it cost her a lot in term of training which in turn caused her big body problems that led to early retirement), while, as we know, Chris Evert only thought about the yellow ball.

Um, both are only high school graduates. Not intellectuals. What "intellectual" career does Tracy Austin have?

And as far as "only thinking about the yellow ball," well, it's certainly garnered a lot more fame and popularity for Chris than it did for Tracy Austin, correct?

But we all know that, after breaking Chris Evert´s 125 streak on clay ( and nobody else than Austin did), she would have been heavily favoured over Evert at that year´s FO.

Oh really? One, as in a singular victory by three points constitutes "heavily favored" over a player who already won the French twice, and had only lost 1 clay court match in 8 years? versus a player who had exactly two clay titles to her name?

Yeah, right.

Then again, there is that word "woulda" You know, Selestial territory.

Doesn't matter. Because while in your world of one, Tracy "would have been heavily favored", Chris Evert ACTUALLY WON THE FRENCH OPEN in 1979!

It is Chris luck that Austin chose her exams and not vice versa.It gave her also the 1980 crown.

Yes, naturally, Chris' clay court prowess had NOTHING to do with winning French titles. It was all about Tracy's convenient absences!

we saw what happened at the 1982 FO (Hana´s game was the only one capable of breaking the perfect groundstrokes machinery of Austin on clay when Austin was at her very best IMO)

ROFLMAO at the thought that someone believes the 1982 version of Tracy was at her very best! Exactly what was her record in 1982? And what happened in her very last match of 1982?

( her 1980 defeat is a mixture of overconfidence and pressure from Tracy who had taken the first set in their semi and UNEXPLAINABLE lost the next two sets 6-1,6-1...how could that ever happen? something as I mentioned or otherwise, there is not a human explanation)

It's simple. It's called reality. Try it sometime!

 

[kiki]

And everts demolition of Austin came a year after that

And "we" is presumptuous unless you are Quern Elizabeth.
Then I apologize your majesty

Martina has never ever volleyed under her knees...unless when facing Austin

 

[kiki]

To the greatest cherrypicker of all-time:


You know this, because.....




Um, both are only high school graduates. Not intellectuals. What "intellectual" career does Tracy Austin have?

And as far as "only thinking about the yellow ball," well, it's certainly garnered a lot more fame and popularity for Chris than it did for Tracy Austin, correct?




Oh really? One, as in a singular victory by three points constitutes "heavily favored" over a player who already won the French twice, and had only lost 1 clay court match in 8 years? versus a player who had exactly two clay titles to her name?

Yeah, right.

Then again, there is that word "woulda" You know, Selestial territory.

Doesn't matter. Because while in your world of one, Tracy "would have been heavily favored", Chris Evert ACTUALLY WON THE FRENCH OPEN in 1979!




Yes, naturally, Chris' clay court prowess had NOTHING to do with winning French titles. It was all about Tracy's convenient absences!




ROFLMAO at the thought that someone believes the 1982 version of Tracy was at her very best! Exactly what was her record in 1982? And what happened in her very last match of 1982?





It's simple. It's called reality. Try it sometime!

OK, as we approach new year I wish everybody on board a great 2015, and so more than others to those really admirable Chrissie´s followers who always search under the rocks to find the most convenient or rare excuses for her, specially when a 1962 born californian comes around, inflicting them that pain and fear that they thought solved ( after Tracy´s retirement in 83)

Um, both are only high school graduates. Not intellectuals. What "intellectual" career does Tracy Austin have?

Austin may not be intelectual but she favoured HS exams.I don´t think Evert did that when at HS.This is not important but it is just background factual data.

And as far as "only thinking about the yellow ball," well, it's certainly garnered a lot more fame and popularity for Chris than it did for Tracy Austin, correct?

Yes, as I said, Chris Evert is the greatest Public Relations in the open era and she makes Hillary Clinton look like a Dorothy Lambert against Steffi graf, for example.


Oh really? One, as in a singular victory by three points constitutes "heavily favored" over a player who already won the French twice, and had only lost 1 clay court match in 8 years? versus a player who had exactly two clay titles to her name?

That is your problem, looking at past achievemetns.Tracy certainly didn´t give a damn about how many RG titles Chris had won before inflicting her a huge defeat on Chris Evert´s favourite clay courts ( Rome was even slower than Paris).Tracy just knew she had beaten Evert for the first time in 125 meetings.Nobody else can say the same and we can look upon many excuses if you need to...

Yeah, right.

Then again, there is that word "woulda" You know, Selestial territory.

Doesn't matter. Because while in your world of one, Tracy "would have been heavily favored", Chris Evert ACTUALLY WON THE FRENCH OPEN in 1979!

She did.No other player could beat her on clay in 1979.Maybe an inspired Cawley, but Evonne was playing pretty badly in 1979.Still beat Austin once or twice that season and also defeated that year Navratilova ( who dominated on any fast court bar the Open).


Yes, naturally, Chris' clay court prowess had NOTHING to do with winning French titles. It was all about Tracy's convenient absences!

Never said that.But you know how menthally would Evert feel in case she had to face her conqueror of Rome just 15 days afterwards..


ROFLMAO at the thought that someone believes the 1982 version of Tracy was at her very best! Exactly what was her record in 1982? And what happened in her very last match of 1982?

Yes, Austin was not as good in 82 as in forme ryears,still made it to the last eight and played a very competitive quarter final.Austin used to beat Mandlikova, as she did at the 1981 USO QF, but Mandlikova had the game to beat her on clay.

We shall continue it...

 

[kiki]

Austin's dad was a high tech engineer.Evert's a former tennis pro and coach.It may have certainly influenced Intelectual stimulation.
Nothing important, just factual data

 

[DMan]

Austin may not be intelectual but she favoured HS exams.I don´t think Evert did that when at HS.This is not important but it is just background factual data.

No, it's not factual data. It's your opinion. As you just wrote, "I think..."


Doesn't matter. Because while in your world of one, Tracy "would have been heavily favored", Chris Evert ACTUALLY WON THE FRENCH OPEN in 1979!

Never said that.But you know how menthally would Evert feel in case she had to face her conqueror of Rome just 15 days afterwards..

We'll never know. Tracy was too scared of Chris to even enter!

 

[kiki]

Well, Austin may have been the one to overcome that unwritten rule " you can´t be a top sports pro and have an intelectual career in paralel"

Is there any other case like Tracy, no matter which sport?

 

[ollinger]

^^ huh? What "intellectual career? And what is this drivel about an unwritten rule? There are many pro athletes who've had intellectual careers; Dick Barnett got his Ph.D in education after his career with the Knicks, for example, and taught for years at St. Johns U., and his teammate Bill Bradley didn't join the team until completing a Rhodes Scholarship.

 

[kiki]

^^ huh? What "intellectual career? And what is this drivel about an unwritten rule? There are many pro athletes who've had intellectual careers; Dick Barnett got his Ph.D in education after his career with the Knicks, for example, and taught for years at St. Johns U., and his teammate Bill Bradley didn't join the team until completing a Rhodes Scholarship.

I clearly stated in paralel, not afterwards

Tom Gorman was a Wall Street lawyer before he decided give tennis a shot.After retirment, came back to Wall Street

The rule is bound to remain unbroken

 

[Vanhool]

Well, Austin may have been the one to overcome that unwritten rule " you can´t be a top sports pro and have an intelectual career in paralel"

Is there any other case like Tracy, no matter which sport?

I clearly stated in paralel, not afterwards

Tom Gorman was a Wall Street lawyer before he decided give tennis a shot.After retirment, came back to Wall Street

The rule is bound to remain unbroken

Serena is a student at UMass.
https://www.umass.edu/uww/news/uww-student-serena-williams-goes-gold
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_Without_Walls_(University_of_Massachusetts_Amherst)
A few months ago she tweeted that she was changing her major from business management to pre-med. I thought wtf? But that's what she said.

Back when they were all young, she and Venus used to take swipes at Hingis for being "uneducated" because she didn't finish high school.

Edit: Venus and Serena enrolled at the Art Institute of Fort Lauderdale in 1999, majoring in fashion design. Serena didn't complete her degree, but launched her first clothing line in 2004 and a new one after USO 14. Venus got her Associate's degree in 2006. Saw some 2011 article saying she was pursuing a bachelor's online and ultimately wants an MBA.

Edit: Vera Zvonareva got her degree in physical education in 2007. While out on a long injury, she got a second degree in international economic relations in 2013 and has been trying for a comeback this last year.

Edit: Andrea Petkovic has a degree in political science and is now studying philosophy and literature. TBH, of all the players in the WTA, she always strikes me as the smartest.

These are the only ones I know off the top of my head, but there are probably more. All the players I listed exceeded Austin's parallel intellectual career of high school (though many players never graduate or get their GED, so good for her).

 

[kiki]

That was so fierce, that the rivalry started...even before Tracy turned pro¡¡¡

In the WTA party video we will find when and why it did start.

 

[Dedans Penthouse]

Well, Austin may have been the one to overcome that unwritten rule " you can´t be a top sports pro and have an intelectual career in paralel"

Is there any other case like Tracy, no matter which sport?

If Tracy Austin is to serve as an example of combining the "intellectual" and the "athletic" then you could add the late Arthur Ashe (tennis) and Todd Christiansen (American football) to that list along with others, e.g. George 'Doc' Medich (baseball).

 

[kiki]

If Tracy Austin is to serve as an example of combining the "intellectual" and the "athletic" then you could add the late Arthur Ashe (tennis) and Todd Christiansen (American football) to that list along with others, e.g. George 'Doc' Medich (baseball).

Did Ashe finish college? He was certainly an intelectual but more than that, I consider him a community leader

 

[Vanhool]

Did Ashe finish college? He was certainly an intelectual but more than that, I consider him a community leader

Ok, I'm confused. I thought she didn't go to college. I thought she finished high school while competing on tour and that was her parallel intellectual career. I googled her name with college, education, and university and couldn't find anything (except a link to this thread loll). What college did she go to?

 

[AngieB]

I thought she finished high school while competing on tour and that was her parallel intellectual career.

I haven't seen that much #shade thrown since clouds rolled over #Armstrong Stadium in 1984. I'm surprised at you, #Vanhool. Nice form.

I now have #pneumonia. JC cured my #viral illness (the flu shot was useless), but the devil gave me #bronchitis, then #pneumonia. I can walk better now. Enough to get to my computer. Glad to have seen your comment. Haven't laughed so hard in days. Coughed for minutes it seemed. My #husband though I was having an attack of some sort. Thanks for the #sunshine.

#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieBdown​

 

[Mr.Lob]

I now have #pneumonia. JC cured my #viral illness (the flu shot was useless), but the devil gave me #bronchitis, then #pneumonia. I can walk better now. Enough to get to my computer. Glad to have seen your comment. Haven't laughed so hard in days. Coughed for minutes it seemed. My #husband though I was having an attack of some sort. Thanks for the #sunshine.

#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieBdown​

Hope you feel better soon AngieB.

 

[Vanhool]

I haven't seen that much #shade thrown since clouds rolled over #Armstrong Stadium in 1984. I'm surprised at you, #Vanhool. Nice form.

I now have #pneumonia. JC cured my #viral illness (the flu shot was useless), but the devil gave me #bronchitis, then #pneumonia. I can walk better now. Enough to get to my computer. Glad to have seen your comment. Haven't laughed so hard in days. Coughed for minutes it seemed. My #husband though I was having an attack of some sort. Thanks for the #sunshine.

#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieBdown​

Well, somebody has to hold down the fort when #shadethrower1947 is MIA I hope you get better soon...pneumonia is serious at your age. I rebuke thee satan! He gave me whooping cough last fall and I was in misery for 6'weeks. Thankfully I do all this on my phone, so my trolling went uninterrupted. It's been too quiet and boring without you...at least you are back in time for the Aussie swing.

 

[PDJ]

I haven't seen that much #shade thrown since clouds rolled over #Armstrong Stadium in 1984. I'm surprised at you, #Vanhool. Nice form.

I now have #pneumonia. JC cured my #viral illness (the flu shot was useless), but the devil gave me #bronchitis, then #pneumonia. I can walk better now. Enough to get to my computer. Glad to have seen your comment. Haven't laughed so hard in days. Coughed for minutes it seemed. My #husband though I was having an attack of some sort. Thanks for the #sunshine.

#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieBdown​

The '#' virus is easily cured. Pneumonia not so much. I wish you well.

 

[DMan]

^^ huh? What "intellectual career? And what is this drivel about an unwritten rule? There are many pro athletes who've had intellectual careers; Dick Barnett got his Ph.D in education after his career with the Knicks, for example, and taught for years at St. Johns U., and his teammate Bill Bradley didn't join the team until completing a Rhodes Scholarship.

This thread is about the Evert-Austin rivalry.....such as there was one. Well, OK for about 1 year, tops.

Chris Evert is LEGEND. Tracy is 3rd tier status, looking way, way, WAY up at Chris!

As for an "intellectual" career, once you are finished discussing just 2 major victories and a string of hollow indoor victories, you have nothing else to talk about. So you make up stuff. Like an, ahem, "intellectual" career.

I have news for ALL: no one, and that includes Miss Austin and Mrs Evert-Lloyd-Mills-Norman themselves can say Chris or Tracy were intellectuals!

 

[AngieB]

Thank you for the well-wishes. I'm back on my feet. ESPN classic has been playing tons of past Australian Open matches. 1988 Evert vs Navratilova, 1988 Cash vs Wilander, 2000 Sampras vs Agassi, etc. etc. in case some of you are curious about that sort of thing.

#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB​

 

[Gary Duane]

Thank you for the well-wishes. I'm back on my feet. ESPN classic has been playing tons of past Australian Open matches. 1988 Evert vs Navratilova, 1988 Cash vs Wilander, 2000 Sampras vs Agassi, etc. etc. in case some of you are curious about that sort of thing.

#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB​

AngieB, I have been #looking for a few #words, with your style.

Hope you are feeling better!

Gary

 

[PDJ]

Thank you for the well-wishes. I'm back on my feet. ESPN classic has been playing tons of past Australian Open matches. 1988 Evert vs Navratilova, 1988 Cash vs Wilander, 2000 Sampras vs Agassi, etc. etc. in case some of you are curious about that sort of thing.

#PTL #JC4Ever

AngieB​

I have the Evert/Navratilova ESPN match on DVD, but there is also the Australian tv version on YouTube- it's very interesting to listen to the different commentary and their takes on the match. The Australian version has Goolagong-Cawley and Sue Barker. I think I prefer the Australian version as it's much more insightful in to the actual tennis. Plus Cawley has such a calm, peaceful manner that radiates warmth- rather reassuring as you imagine that's exactly as she is in person. The ESPN ccommentators appear to favour MN and seem doubtful that Evert can win up until the conclusion. The Australian version is more even, but don't write Evert off. I guess both Cawley and Barker had played both MN & CE often enough to know what both players were capable of, but especially Evert.

 

[kiki]

This thread is about the Evert-Austin rivalry.....such as there was one. Well, OK for about 1 year, tops.

Chris Evert is LEGEND. Tracy is 3rd tier status, looking way, way, WAY up at Chris!

As for an "intellectual" career, once you are finished discussing just 2 major victories and a string of hollow indoor victories, you have nothing else to talk about. So you make up stuff. Like an, ahem, "intellectual" career.

I have news for ALL: no one, and that includes Miss Austin and Mrs Evert-Lloyd-Mills-Norman themselves can say Chris or Tracy were intellectuals!

what do you consider as hollow indoor victories?

I enjoy your attempts at belitteling Austin in regards to Evert.I must say you are not the only one who tries as hard.

 

[DMan]

what do you consider as hollow indoor victories?

I enjoy your attempts at belitteling Austin in regards to Evert.I must say you are not the only one who tries as hard.

I don't have to try hard, because it's so easy.

Now you were the one claiming "intellectual" status for Tracy, right? (Eee-yow! how much twisting and bending did you have to do to get *that* out in the open?! My oh my it must have hurt!)

As for belittling hollow indoor victories, were you belittling Chris' double bagel indoor victory over Tracy?

If anything, I am belittling the thought this was a real rivalry to discuss. Yeah, it was, for about 1 year, as I said it.

Without using words "wouda, coulda, shoulda" there is simply no way around the fact that Chris Evert was always the superior player. And her results proved it. And thanks to Tracy's inability to reach several more encounters with Chris (because Tracy was the one upset by lower ranked players), and her nearly complete absence from any clay court event in which Evert played in, there were far fewer H2H encounters in their career.

But yup, that is LEGEND Chris Evert, struggling to see Tracy Austin way, way down on the list of great players in the Open era. Is it true that Chris said, "Oh Tracy, is that you? You're so small, I hardly recognized you!"

Um, yeah it's true, because I thought about it. So it must be true. (Using Selestial and Kikian logic, of course!)

 

[kiki]

I don't have to try hard, because it's so easy.

Now you were the one claiming "intellectual" status for Tracy, right? (Eee-yow! how much twisting and bending did you have to do to get *that* out in the open?! My oh my it must have hurt!)

As for belittling hollow indoor victories, were you belittling Chris' double bagel indoor victory over Tracy?

If anything, I am belittling the thought this was a real rivalry to discuss. Yeah, it was, for about 1 year, as I said it.

Without using words "wouda, coulda, shoulda" there is simply no way around the fact that Chris Evert was always the superior player. And her results proved it. And thanks to Tracy's inability to reach several more encounters with Chris (because Tracy was the one upset by lower ranked players), and her nearly complete absence from any clay court event in which Evert played in, there were far fewer H2H encounters in their career.

But yup, that is LEGEND Chris Evert, struggling to see Tracy Austin way, way down on the list of great players in the Open era. Is it true that Chris said, "Oh Tracy, is that you? You're so small, I hardly recognized you!"

Um, yeah it's true, because I thought about it. So it must be true. (Using Selestial and Kikian logic, of course!)

You mean just like Rome?
Masters and Avon Finals?

Oh yeah, I do see where your logic comes from...

 

[soyizgood]

This is definitely a case of the personal dynamics of the rivalry being a LOT more compelling than the actual tennis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT_OVo2FC0c

Go to 1:54:00 - This is amazing cattiness by Evert and Austin.

Dang! They should have had a mud-wrestling match then and there.

 

[DMan]

You mean just like Rome?
Masters and Avon Finals?

Oh yeah, I do see where your logic comes from...

Rome? In 1979, not even the equivalent of a "Tier I" or on par with Miami, Indian Wells of today!

"Masters" finals? OK, a history lesson for you.

Tracy Austin beat Chris Evert in the RR and semis of the Colgate Series Championships in January 1980. It was actually the series ending event for the 1979 Colgate series tournaments. Austin also beat Evert in the RR of the 1979 Avon circuit.

As for the really big events, you know the four majors, the Grand Slams, here is the H2H for Evert-Austin

1977 Wimbledon 3R: Evert d. Austin 6-1,6-1
1978 US Open QF: Evert d. Austin 7-5,6-1
1979 US Open F: Austin d. Evert 6-4,6-3
1980 US Open SF: Evert d. Austin 4-6,6-1,6-1

My math says that's a 3-1 H2H advantage for Evert. In the majors. Where it counts the most.

My math also counts a whopping five, 6-1 set victories for Chris! Ouch! Tracy really got crushed when it mattered.