The day S&V tactic was reborn

[pj80]

That was some of the ugliest S&V I’ve seen since Ivo Karlovic dropped out of the top 100

That was the sole reason for the vicrory, Med Scientist was too solid from the baseline....

 

[MeatTornado]

I wonder if Djokovic will S&V vs Thiem and Nadal more often when he plays them next. Can think of a few big points in AO ‘20 and Wimby ‘18 when he went that way and they didn’t have the answer.

Well unlike the other guys, Nadal can actually adapt on return. He stays back because no one forces him to move up. But he certainly knows how to play up at the line and punish you if you start doing it too often. Like he never drops back as much against Federer's serve as he does against a Thiem or whoever, because he knows Roger will follow it in if you give him space. I doubt it'll take him too long to realize if Novak's doing the same thing.

Of course that's depending on what kind of shape his game's going to be in 2022+

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Well the counter for that would be returning from in front of the mezzanine for a change, but of course this is a bridge too far for the NextGen.

I wonder if Djokovic will S&V vs Thiem and Nadal more often when he plays them next. Can think of a few big points in AO ‘20 and Wimby ‘18 when he went that way and they didn’t have the answer.

Don't recall Djokovic s&v'ing on key points vs Nadal at all there. Approaching on the next shot, or the shot after it, yes. Coming in directly off the serve, no.

 

[Daniel Andrade]

Two totally different strategies, really. Djokovic would never play s/v against Federer or Murray or anyone who returns from inside the court, not 4 metres behind it

As he should.

 

[Sudacafan]

That is what GOATs do. They produce alternative playing tactics to win matches.

 

[bjsnider]

S&V would only work on first serves when Med stands very far back, but personally I think Med can stand closer without compromising his great returns, so I don't think this tactic is a long-term solution to Med's great play.

 

[Cashman]

Djokovic would double bagel you playing left-handed serve-and-volleying every point

if my tennis skills are your bar for S&V on the pro circuit, no wonder the game is in such a state

 

[The Big Foe fan]

Yeah, that about sums it up. And that is a perm issue now, has nothing to do with injuries, he just fatigues quicker now.

Precisely why Djokovic and Tsitsipas were able to push him to the absolute brink in the Rome & Barcelona finals this year; with the former actually having much more miles on legs. If not for the lucky net chord call in Barcelona & somehow-dropped-in BH DTL shot, nadal would have gone titleless this year.
He desperately needs to shave off some of the bulk just like djoko did to maintain stamina & speed.

 

[BeatlesFan]

winning 19 of 22 serve and volley points. Djokovic won a stunning 86 per cent of his serve and volley points to

Remember that Djokovic served and volleying extensively in the third set of the USO final this year, but was unsuccessful with the strategy. But I'm very pleased to see him at net and volleying far better than he did in his prime. I hope he keeps it up! Even in this laughably weak current field, he can't maintain his grinding baseline style at age 35, 36 or beyond. He knows it and is smart enough to start changing his point construction. Connors became a net rusher in his old age, I hope Djokovic does the same. It makes his game a lot more interesting to watch. He might look inelegant and inept at net, but he's improved a lot in that area.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Pretty sure Nadal fans said the S&V tactic was reborn after Nadal beat Medvedev at the 2019 USO, and yet here we are celebrating the rebirth of a tactic that apparently was reborn two years ago, and before that 2014-2015 with Federer.

Maybe it never died; maybe it was just..."resting".

 

[Martin J]

Please, let's be serious. Novak was smart enough to change his approach against Medvedev (we already saw the change during the USO final) as he realized he can't get away with grinding/counterpunching against a player like Medvedev (who has younger legs), so he employed a different tactics which paid off well. But reborn? Lol, no, it's not like it disappeared from the tour and Novak suddenly brought it back to the crowd again after 20 years.

 

[Jokervich]

Medvedev stands so ridiculously far back to return serve, that's what makes serve and volley so effective. Underarm serves are also effective against such a deep return position, surprised Djokovic didn't throw in a few of those too.

 

[NonP]

I've been telling you jokers for years that S&V is still viable in the right hands because it's practically impossible to pass the opponent more than 60% of the time, and if it takes Djokovic of all people to make y'all heed my words of wisdom I'm all for it. At the very least this mini-S&V clinic proves that his 75% of net points won at this year's Wimbledon was no fluke.

One more thing:

Medvedev stands so ridiculously far back to return serve, that's what makes serve and volley so effective. Underarm serves are also effective against such a deep return position, surprised Djokovic didn't throw in a few of those too.

I've never understood the unwritten rule against the underarm serve (or hiting directly at the opponent in his net forays, for that matter). It's a perfectly legal play, and if Karlovic of all people ain't hesitant to sneak one in other players should feel free to use it with no reservation whatsoever. And if you mix it up with body serves, even better.

 

[Sudacafan]

I've been telling you jokers for years that S&V is still viable in the right hands because it's practically impossible to pass the opponent more than 60% of the time, and if it takes Djokovic of all people to make y'all heed my words of wisdom I'm all for it. At the very least this mini-S&V clinic proves that his 75% of net points won at this year's Wimbledon was no fluke.

Why do you think that nearly all the ATP players of today can't or won't apply the S&V tactics, which has a proven success rate of 60%-75%?
a) Their hands are not useful at all.
b) They are untalented, lazy and have learned the game from mostly ineffective coaches.
c) They have nurtured the wrong habit of not following your words of wisdom.

 

[FatHead250]

if my tennis skills are your bar for S&V on the pro circuit, no wonder the game is in such a state

You called Djokovic's game ugly. I think you're ugly. And probably i'm not wrong. You think jsut because he has a 100 million dollars you can call him ugly and no one will call you out?

 

[TTMR]

Fast court. Deep returner. Isolated incident. Djokovic's "team" analyzed Med's victory at USO and came up with a new strategy.

Question: Has Nadal or Djokovic ever hit a volley that wasn't a drop volley?

 

[Lleytonstation]

I am sorry, but that was just tactical smarts to do to a guy who isnt all around skilled enough to handle that tactic. Not bringing back anything.

 

[scotus]

Federer is 4-0 against Medvedev after yesterday

It would be interesting if Fed returns to the tour and keeps Medvedev out of Djoker's way to the slam titles.

 

[Tennisbg]

Just imagine peak Nadal had been on the other side of the net yesterday. Just God knows how many passes we could have seen. It might work against Daniil but not against Rafa OR Novak himself who are amazing passers.

He wont play the same way vs Rafa probably.

 

[top10]

S/V works better in this poly era when it is a surprise and used against returners who stand far back. Next time, Medvedev will be prepared for it as will other Djokovic opponents. On the other hand, coming to the net often to end points off good approaches is a viable tactic that should still work for Djokovic in the future. If he uses S/V enough to make guys like Medvedev, Nadal and Thiem abandon their deep return position, it will still be a positive as he is making them adjust to him rather than the other way around.

What is more concerning to me is that he lost most of the BH-BH rallies against Medvedev in both the USO final and at Bercy. He didn’t fare that well against Zverev at both the AO and USO on BH-BH rallies either. The GOAT BH that he used to have is no more and he seems to hit it too flat compared to his heyday and make many more errors in long rallies. Maybe he hits flatter because he doesn’t seem to be able to hit as hard as he used with a lot of topspin anymore like he did five or six years ago. Time will tell if he can hang from the baseline and win a majority of the long rallies against other top players in the next couple of years. I don’t see S/V tennis as a viable long-term strategy that works great for him outside of a low-bouncing surface like grass.

Nadal won 51 out of 66 points that he came to net against Medvedev in the 2019USO final, but that was just a 1-match tactic and he didn’t suddenly become a net rusher. As his baseline game has slowly declined, he is suffering more tough losses. It might happen to Djokovic also unless he finds his BH mojo again. It is also interesting that Nadal and Djokovic felt like they needed to come to the net a lot to beat Medvedev in big matches and they don’t feel like they can outlast him from the baseline - a sign that there are many Slams in store for Daniil in the future.

I believe Novak has some sort of a problem with his left hand (elbow?). He has been flexing it quite a bit lately and was obviously avoiding hitting with two hands and hitting with less spin…

 

[Red Rick]

You called Djokovic's game ugly. I think you're ugly. And probably i'm not wrong. You think jsut because he has a 100 million dollars you can call him ugly and no one will call you out?

My mom insists I'm really goodlooking thenk you bery much

 

[Kralingen]

I believe Novak has some sort of a problem with his left hand (elbow?). He has been flexing it quite a bit lately and was obviously avoiding hitting with two hands and hitting with less spin…

left shoulder was actually the reason he gave for withdrawing from the Olympics. I definitely think there's an issue with it, going back to the 2019 US Open. His BH has regressed especially DTL.

 

[Cashman]

You called Djokovic's game ugly. I think you're ugly. And probably i'm not wrong. You think jsut because he has a 100 million dollars you can call him ugly and no one will call you out?

I’m pretty good looking

 

[FatHead250]

I’m pretty good looking

Hahaha you're most definetly ugly

 

[socallefty]

I think he is a bit slower due to his age and it is easier to hit flat if you are a bit late in setting up your shot compared to hitting with a lot of topspin. To hit with a lot of topspin, you need to bend your knees more, start your swing lower, contact the ball more in front etc all of which needs a split second more time during preparation for the stroke.

That is what was amazing about his BOAT-level tennis in 2015-16. He got to the ball early, hit it extremely hard on the rise with tremendous topspin which gave him the margin to make very few errors in long rallies. And he changed angles at will on both wings making his opponents run more than him. He dominated from the baseline and wore out all opponents after a couple of sets in those days. He serves better and finishes better at the net now, but his baseline game is not as good anymore and it is obvious if you watch videos from 2015-16 right before you watch a recent match.

 

[aldeayeah]

Just imagine peak Nadal had been on the other side of the net yesterday. Just God knows how many passes we could have seen. It might work against Daniil but not against Rafa OR Novak himself who are amazing passers.

On a low bouncing court with Rafa returning from the stands, S&V can be quite effective against him.

I mean, remember that Muller match in 2017? Then again, Gilles is a true specialist, not an improvised S&Ver.