The often forgotten Fedal stat
- Thread starter Fedeonic
- Start date
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
completely agree - except he's not tense indoors, but that's a different ball game.
Isn't it 8-2 to Rafa HC outdoors though?
2004 Miami, 2006 Dubai, 3 times AO, Cinci 2013, Miami 2011, IW 2013
Fed's only won Miami 2005 and IW 2012
8-2 in fact. Iirc correctly, what happened in that IW 2012 match was that Rafa's usual tactic, bludgeon the backhand, didn't work as Fed was having a great, great day of his backhand wing. Rafa never adjusted and Fed never broke down. But that's one match...
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
Agree with the order. There's a reason it's 5-1 indoors to Fed and 2-8 outdoors to Rafa on HC.
Part of that is that indoors, generally, plays faster and that they've often met on slow HC outdoor or, say, in Cinci in Fed's worst year and Rafa's best ever HC form.
But an even more important part is the bounce, Rafa can't generate the same ball bounce indoors as he can outdoors and thus he can't hurt Fed as much. Also, there's no wind, which allows Fed to take the ball earlier and time his shots better (Rafa, taking the ball later than Fed, ain't affected by a bad bounce and some wind to the same degree).
So overall that doesn't strike me as too relevant just the fact that it's a faster court and most "outdoor" meetings have been on the slower courts apart from 1 at Dubai (arrogant erer took Rafa too lightly after 1 set) and Cincy (during Fed's crap year and he still played really well but was very very UL on a couple of net cords twice in one point late in the final set IIRC.
The wind + bounce thing just tells me that those conditions are "perfect" so unsurprisingly Fed wins.
It's also worth mentioning that most of these meetings came in 2010 onward when Fed was past his prime but Rafa was still in his. That's the age advantage. Then you got the 04 Miami where Federer was ill.
They never met at the USO either which would've been perfect for Fed to hit through Rafa on.
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The_Order
G.O.A.T.
You play against Rafa with a shbh and you're taking that ball costantly at shoulder height or more. That is a very physically taxing thing to do and to send it back with bite makes it even harder. I was extremely impressed with Dimitrov's ability to take that bh utl with power constantly.
clayqueen
Talk Tennis Guru
Let's take indoor tournaments out where Federer leads Nadal 5:1, that would take their head to head 22:6 to Nadal.
Head-to-head results on each court surface[edit]
Head-to-head results on each court surface[edit]
- Clay courts: Nadal, 13–2
- Hard courts: Nadal, 9–7
- Outdoor: Nadal, 8–2
- Indoor: Federer, 5–1
- Grass courts: Federer, 2–1
Legends of Sport
New User
Well done in finding a stat that favours Fed. they will exist but Nadal is 9-2 in GS and 3-0 in Australia. He has history on his side.
Legends of Sport
New User
Well done in finding a stat that favours Fed. they will exist but Nadal is 9-2 in GS and 3-0 in Australia. He has history on his side.
Chanwan
G.O.A.T.
I guess the big question is: How fast is this year's AO? Close to AO 2014? Or closer to say, Cincinatti? No one has called this court a 'fast court'. They've simply said it plays faster than before. How much? I'd say the former, i.e. closer to AO 2014 than Cinci -> adv. Rafa.
"The wind + bounce thing just tells me that those conditions are "perfect" so unsurprisingly Fed wins."
True, but unsurprisingly, conditions aren't perfect outdoors making Fed's attacking game plan a lot harder to execute, especially with the higher bounce.
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Hysterical hyperbole. Now Nadal will get to 22+ slams. The same mindless BS emanated from the Djoker fans in 2015: "30 majors will be a cake walk for Prince Nole."
You must have started watching tennis about 5 months ago to make such asinine predictions with a straight face.
90's Clay
Banned
And Fed has only won 2 best of 5 matches at slams in the last 10-11 years. Best of 3 is meaningless since there is less on the line and anyone can win those. Totally different animal than going best of 5
90's Clay
Banned
And Fed has only won 2 best of 5 matches at slams in the last 10 years. Best of 3 is meaningless since there is less on the line and anyone can win those. Totally different animal than going best of 5
Tennisanity
Legend
50% of the time best of 5 becomes best of 3.
Problem is that with his style and age, he will never be injury free for the rest of his career.
roysid
Hall of Fame
Men's tennis is funny. Last year Nadal was wiped in his ass by Novak, Murray and pretty much everyone. And in Australia Nadal came so close to winning and we're jumping Nadal is favourite for French etc.
Once Novak comes to his form I don't see how Nadal beats him and wins tournament s. Murray too.
Once Novak comes to his form I don't see how Nadal beats him and wins tournament s. Murray too.
Nice stat. While Federer is 8-3 against Nadal in non-clay finals, he is only 3-2 against Nadal in non-clay Grand Slam finals.
nolefam_2024
G.O.A.T.
Fed is 8-3 in non clay finals vs Rafa
Nole is 12-4.
Nole is 12-4.
But Nole is "only" 4-2 against Nadal in non clay GS finals.
Federev
Legend
I just wanted to say I got to respond to the legendary “90s Clay”…even if he is only the echo of an indelible memory in the hallowed halls of TTW.
Fed changed 2 of 5 …to 4 of 8.
Not a bad finish for an old man on his last knees vs a much younger ATG.
Take care “90s Clay”.
I’m honored to reply to this post.
AgassiSuperSlam11
Professional
Bump Bump in a way.
Texas Tennis Fan
Professional
Yes, sad that Nadal doesn't make it as deep into non-clay slams to meet Djokovic more often. Clay GOAT.
Nadal has five Wimbledon finals and another two semi finals. He has five US open finals and another two or three (I think) semifinals. He has 6 AO finals. That is a pretty decent record in terms of deep runs into non-clay slams. And by the way, two of their ten (!) meetings at RG were in quarterfinals. So although the fact that most of their GS matches have been on clay (10!) is, in part due to Novak being more consistent in terms of making deep runs into RG than Nadal has been in terms of making deep runs into the other three grand slams, it is hardly the whole story.
Novak is actually more dominant against Nadal on Hard court (20-7) than Nadal against Djokovic on clay (20-8). On grass they are tied (2-2). However, Nadal is way more dominant against Novak in clay court Grand slams (8-2, and 3-0 in finals) than Djokovic against Nadal in Hard court grand slams (3-2, all matches were finals). Given that Nadal has not been overwhelmingly successful in Hard court masteer 1000s, at least when compared to Djokovic and Federer (Nadal never won Miami, never won Paris, only won Cincinatti once, only won Shanghai once) his 6 hard court GS are quite impressive.
I think the conclusion is that Nadal raises his hard court level in the hard court grand slams
and yet, Nole managed to lose two out of three USO finals to Nadal
Neptune
Hall of Fame
Nole-Fed 8SF at HC slam
Nole-Rafa 3QF+4SF at RG
Nole-Rafa never met R128-SF at HC slam
Mystery Mystery Mystery
nolefam_2024
G.O.A.T.
And beat him in 2 AO finals and 1 Wimby final.
Nadal not reaching Nole more on slams where Nole won 17 is nadal's fault.
True! But it is a little strange that Novak is "only" 3-2" against Nadal in HC GS finals whereas Nadal is 3-0 against Novak in Clay GS finals, considering that Novak is overall more dominant against Nadal on Hard Court (20-7) than Nadal against Djokovic on clay (20-8). But then, Novak does seem to have a general problem with USO finals, he has reached 10 finals at both AO and USO, in the former he is 10-0, in the latter he is 4-6 (and he lost four USO finals to players that he has defeated in AO finals)..
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