The second best clay courter in the world?

[julesb]

Anyone could speculate on reasons and make excuses if they want. Djokovic has never beaten Federer on clay so he deserves no benefit of doubt that he would have beaten Federer on clay had they played. If one wants to play that game they could say Djokovic is lucky he didnt play Ferrer at either event who he still has never beaten on clay and couldnt even take a set off in their last 2 meetings on clay. The facts are what they are, as Andreas pointed out Djokovic collected fewer points in the same events on clay as Federer, had a worse result in 3 of the 4, and lost their only meeting. Thus 2008 Federer > Djokovic on clay. Not really hard to understand.

 

[Andres]

I told you already this does not tell the whole story.
Also I think you misunderstood what myagi was saying. "Only" there means "only reason" why he was in the RG final and Djokovic was not. Not that is was "only" final he played.

Oh you're right. Didn't get that last part. My reading skills have been lacking lately.

But I don't think it was the only reason. He won the right of facing Nadal in the finals by being #1 for that long. And, by the way, I don't think Djokovic would have beaten Federer in the SF if they were on the same side of the draw, not in MC, Hamburg nor Roland Garros... and this comes from a guy who absolutely despises Federer.

 

[P_Agony]

Federer has beaten Djokovic on clay last year.

*Waits for any sickness, injury, or "I forgot to feed my dog" excuses*.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Federer has beaten Djokovic on clay last year.

*Waits for any sickness, injury, or "I forgot to feed my dog" excuses*.

That is not RG btw. I'm expecting Djokovic to beat Federer at RG if he is on his side of the draw. Roger admits that Monte Carlo and Hamburg suit him more due to the lower bounces compared to Roland Garros.

 

[Andres]

That is not RG btw. I'm expecting Djokovic to beat Federer at RG if he is on his side of the draw. Roger admits that Monte Carlo and Hamburg suit him more due to the lower bounces compared to Roland Garros.

I don't see Monte Carlo being much different from Roland Garros in terms of how the clay plays or the weather conditions. I can't see Djokovic beating Federer in a best of five on clay.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

I don't see Monte Carlo being much different from Roland Garros in terms of how the clay plays or the weather conditions. I can't see Djokovic beating Federer in a best of five on clay.

I see a difference. Nadal is fresher for Monte Carlo but the court is definitely slower and lower bouncing. Federer said it right after his match against Nadal at RG. Monte Carlo and Hamburg are different to each other. I think Hamburg is even more low bouncing and can be faster if the conditions are warmer and dryer.

 

[P_Agony]

That is not RG btw. I'm expecting Djokovic to beat Federer at RG if he is on his side of the draw. Roger admits that Monte Carlo and Hamburg suit him more due to the lower bounces compared to Roland Garros.

Roland Garros is a slam. It is also on clay, which means the points last a lot longer and there are many rallies. Even if Djokovic plays well, he wouldn't be able to stay with Federer due to his fitness. Plus, Fed is a better clay player, way more experienced too. I'm not saying Fed will beat him in easy straight sets, but I do think he'll get the W. In a 3-set match it's easy to suprise Fed - you win one set, and in the 3rd it's the usual Federer choke. In a 5-setter, it's much harder, as Fed has enough time to pick up his level (as seen against Andreev, Berdych, Tipsy) and win the match. There is a reason why there is such a large gap between his slam results and his MS results, you know.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Roland Garros is a slam. It is also on clay, which means the points last a lot longer and there are many rallies. Even if Djokovic plays well, he wouldn't be able to stay with Federer due to his fitness. Plus, Fed is a better clay player, way more experienced too. I'm not saying Fed will beat him in easy straight sets, but I do think he'll get the W. In a 3-set match it's easy to suprise Fed - you win one set, and in the 3rd it's the usual Federer choke. In a 5-setter, it's much harder, as Fed has enough time to pick up his level (as seen against Andreev, Berdych, Tipsy) and win the match. There is a reason why there is such a large gap between his slam results and his MS results, you know.

Yes Fed's fitness has looked really good lately. Falling apart in the 5th set against a tired Nadal, falling apart twice against Murray in the 3rd set, and falling apart the last 2 sets against Djokovic in Miami where conditions are rough. Djokovic was able to hang in a long time against Nadal in Hamburg and Roland Garros. Playing against Fed would be a relief to not get into these exhausting points and the higher bounces suit Djokovic more as he is better suited against high balls.

 

[NamRanger]

Yes Fed's fitness has looked really good lately. Falling apart in the 5th set against a tired Nadal, falling apart twice against Murray in the 3rd set, and falling apart the last 2 sets against Djokovic in Miami where conditions are rough. Djokovic was able to hang in a long time against Nadal in Hamburg and Roland Garros. Playing against Fed would be a relief to not get into these exhausting points and the higher bounces suit Djokovic more as he is better suited against high balls.

I come back and I see you're still at it. Well, I guess somethings never change; such as your inability to properly come up with a logical argument.

 

[Cyan]

Nole?

10 char

 

[Nadal_Freak]

I come back and I see you're still at it. Well, I guess somethings never change; such as your inability to properly come up with a logical argument.

Anything you don't agree with equals stupidity. And welcome back from your vacation or whatever.

 

[P_Agony]

Yes Fed's fitness has looked really good lately. Falling apart in the 5th set against a tired Nadal, falling apart twice against Murray in the 3rd set, and falling apart the last 2 sets against Djokovic in Miami where conditions are rough. Djokovic was able to hang in a long time against Nadal in Hamburg and Roland Garros. Playing against Fed would be a relief to not get into these exhausting points and the higher bounces suit Djokovic more as he is better suited against high balls.

Fed's losses against these guys had nothing to do with fitness. In the AO it was a pure mental breakdown, and it was so obvious anyone who didn't see it is in denial. Same goes for the other matchs. At the Miami match, Djokovic looked like he was about to faint at any point, and held it together because he saw Federer was beating himself, and there is no need for him to try very hard. Federer's fitness is fine. I would dare say he's every bit as fit as Nadal.

 

[NamRanger]

Anything you don't agree with equals stupidity. And welcome back from your vacation or whatever.

You're saying the guy who got tortured by Roddick at the Australian Open is going to beat Federer, who has been the 2nd best clay court player since 2006, on the most physically demanding surface in a best of 5? Right.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

Fed's losses against these guys had nothing to do with fitness. In the AO it was a pure mental breakdown, and it was so obvious anyone who didn't see it is in denial. Same goes for the other matchs. At the Miami match, Djokovic looked like he was about to faint at any point, and held it together because he saw Federer was beating himself, and there is no need for him to try very hard. Federer's fitness is fine. I would dare say he's every bit as fit as Nadal.

The fact is Federer's game goes really off if he doesn't feel 100%. He does seem to be sweating a lot more than he used to. Federer used to be very fit. It's just the last year he has gotten out of shape and his movement shows it. Not as crisp as he needs to be.

 

[NamRanger]

The fact is Federer's game goes really off if he doesn't feel 100%. He does seem to be sweating a lot more than he used to. Federer used to be very fit. It's just the last year he has gotten out of shape and his movement shows it. Not as crisp as he needs to be.

It's called aging. Something you obviously do not do.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

You're saying the guy who got tortured by Roddick at the Australian Open is going to beat Federer, who has been the 2nd best clay court player since 2006, on the most physically demanding surface in a best of 5? Right.

Ok Djokovic doesn't like heat. It usually isn't that hot at Roland Garros or most of the clay season though. In the right conditions, Djokovic doesn't mind long points. He gave Nadal his toughest set in the last set of the match at Roland Garros last year.

 

[csr_88]

The fact is Federer's game goes really off if he doesn't feel 100%. He does seem to be sweating a lot more than he used to. Federer used to be very fit. It's just the last year he has gotten out of shape and his movement shows it. Not as crisp as he needs to be.

tbh i really do believe that in order for Federer to play at his highest level conditions need to be near perfect for him.

I like federer a lot, he's my favorite but he needs to learn how to win dirty, and lift himself up when he gets down during matches. this past weekend was a great example

 

[thejoe]

Ok Djokovic doesn't like heat. It usually isn't that hot at Roland Garros or most of the clay season though. In the right conditions, Djokovic doesn't mind long points. He gave Nadal his toughest set in the last set of the match at Roland Garros last year.

It is hot. Very hot.

 

[NamRanger]

Ok Djokovic doesn't like heat. It usually isn't that hot at Roland Garros or most of the clay season though. In the right conditions, Djokovic doesn't mind long points. He gave Nadal his toughest set in the last set of the match at Roland Garros last year.

Really? Are you serious? Djokovic was about to die at Indian Wells against Roddick, and it was only like 80 degrees at the most. Miami is actually fairly cool, but Djokovic couldn't deal with the humidity (and it DOES get humid in Paris).



Simply put, you are trying to say the guy in the top 10 with probably the worst stamina is going to beat an excellent claycourt player, on the most physically demanding surface. That, is just preposterous.

 

[CocaCola]

Djokovic is the 2nd best on clay, but I also hope Tsonga can do well this year...

 

[Fedace]

are you kidding ??? Juan DelPotro for sure.

 

[Nadal_Freak]

It is hot. Very hot.

It was in the 60's most of last years slam. I guess Roland Garros is very unpredictable with their conditions. Going from 60's-90's.

 

[csr_88]

It was in the 60's most of last years slam. I guess Roland Garros is very unpredictable with their conditions. Going from 60's-90's.

you're in houston also!?

 

[Nadal_Freak]

you're in houston also!?

Yeah I live in Houston. Southeast Houston.

 

[Gizo]

Of course tennis is a results business so I would have to say that Federer is no. 2 on clay right now.
However I think that Davydenko and Ferrer are actually more talented on clay than than Federer and Djokovic, but unfortunately they have underachieved on the surface for one reason or another. Davydenko is mentally weak, as his SF defeat to Federer at RG in 2007 proved (he was the better player for most of that match but contrived to throw away all 3 sets). Ferrer on the other hand has a habit of getting his tactics wrong, as his defeats to Verdasco and Monfils at RG over the past 2 years have shown. It's a huge shame. They are both clay court underachievers, who really should be Nadal's closest competitors on the surface in my opinion.
Federer and Djokovic, like the majority of players nowadays, pretty much play hard court tennis on clay, and are boring to watch on the red dirt. But then again the way they play has been effective against most players not named Nadal on the surface over the past few years, though in Djokovic's case Ferrer has his number on clay.

 

[csr_88]

Yeah I live in Houston. Southeast Houston.

that's cool. you still play a lot?

 

[Nadal_Freak]

that's cool. you still play a lot?

Wish I could. I used to play 4.0's. I damage my shoulder by swinging free weights like tennis strokes. Too bad no one told me that is bad before I did it.

 

[gj011]

Federer has beaten Djokovic on clay last year.

*Waits for any sickness, injury, or "I forgot to feed my dog" excuses*.

Here is it, since it is the truth.

Djokovic was sick in MC last year. He had a fever and a strap throat. He was on antibiotics after MC.

 

[veroniquem]

It is hot. Very hot.

It's never hot at RG, Paris is cool in the spring. Monte-Carlo in April is heaven, perfect temperatures, just pleasantly warm, absolutely ideal.

 

[veroniquem]

Here is it, since it is the truth.

Djokovic was sick in MC last year. He had a fever and a strap throat. He was on antibiotics after MC.

Federer fans discount Djoko's AO 2008 victory because Fed was "unhealthy" but they still want Monte-Carlo 2008 to be a 100% legit victory. They can't have it both ways IMO.

 

[tahiti]

There is no one in my mind that really stands out to take such a title as "the 2nd best player on clay." There might be good clay courters but whether they're that good that they stand out only on clay...nope... I don't see anyone.

 

[Cyan]

Nole had a throat infection in MC 2008. His 2008 on clay vs Nadal was more impressive than Fed vs Rafa on clay.....

 

[P_Agony]

Here is it, since it is the truth.

Djokovic was sick in MC last year. He had a fever and a strap throat. He was on antibiotics after MC.

If you're feel sick and feel you may not be able to finish the match, don't bother showing up. I don't recall Federer retiring when he was sick and lost in straight sets do Djokovic in AO 2008, and that match was best of five. Djokovic could stay for 2-3 more games and let the match be over cleanly. Not the way of Djokovic though.

 

[GameSampras]

Yes, but GameSampras will find to way to twist reality and make it look like Sampras beat them at their prime.

Im not bringing Sampras into this argument at all since its not about Pete. Im just calling a spade a spade. THe clay court field lacks in serious depth today as it did in the 90s. There is a FACT. Not really an opinion. Just watch most today's clay field outside of Nadal than watch the 90s and tell me what field was tougher.

If you say today's clay court field is on par with the 90s, there is something wrong. Just because Im stating the glaring truth doesnt mean to be a knock at Nadal, Fed, or anyone. Its just the way it is

 

[flying24]

Im not bringing Sampras into this argument at all since its not about Pete.

Please. We have all figured out your shtick by now. No argument you try to get into isnt indirectly related to your beloved Pete in some way, shape, or form.

 

[GameSampras]

Please. We have all figured out your shtick by now. No argument you try to get into isnt indirectly related to your beloved Pete in some way, shape, or form.

Thats ridiculous. Theres been many threads and post when I talk about Pete. Lets see Ive posted about WTA players, posted about Djoker, Murray, Del Potro, Blake. Is there some hidden reference when I talk about these guys, Im secrectly just trying to glorify Pete? NO

Know what youre talking about, or at least read all my posts before you spew your trash. Dont read the ones you CHOOSE to read.

 

[FEDERER>buttpicker.]

the second best clay courter is probably buttpicker Nadal. best is FEderer by far.