This clip makes me feel sorry for Djokovic

[Deleted member 744633]

Have to say I felt sorry for Djokovic after watching @BeatlesFan clip. Such a brilliant player, an all-time great and yet he gets treated like this. Gotta be tough for Djokovic.

I want to say one thing though ... that this behavior by the fans only motivates Djokovic further to break Federer's records. So if those Federer fans think they're helping Federer, they're not. They're doing the opposite, propelling Djokovic ever closer to Federer's records.

 

[Deleted member 744633]

The Fed fans are just more in sheer number. I don't buy that they are more obnoxious than the Djokodal fans.

Agreed. Most fan groups are obnoxious when things don't go their way.

 

[Robert Baratheon]

The problem doesn't lie predominantly with any set of fans, the problem is that the GOAT debate has become something that people try to argue as if it can be determined objectively when it can't. They then attempt to get other fans to recognise that "fact" when they won't and shouldn't.

It is actually perfectly OK for Fed fans to say he is the GOAT because his play style is pretty or he's very popular. Just as it should be OK for a Nadal fan to say Nad is GOAT because he's the greatest fighter ever or Djoko fans because he had the highest peak or whatever.

It shouldn't be an issue of endless charts and rancour.

I'm pretty sure each of the Big 3 privately regards themselves as the Greatest and always will. And so they should. Fans should feel free to do the same.

Okay that's a different way to look at it.
If it resolves conflict then I am up for it.

 

[Sephiroth]

It started from Wimbledon 2015 actually but it won't ever change in fact it will only get worse. As if the 2014/2015 Wimb, USO losses weren't bad enough that they thought it couldn't get worse...

until Novak came in with a ****ing sledgehammer and hammered down that 40-15 nail for eternity

 

[BeatlesFan]

Have to say I felt sorry for Djokovic after watching @BeatlesFan clip. Such a brilliant player, an all-time great and yet he gets treated like this.

That was the point of the thread, which predictably then descends into GOAT hysteria wars which are beyond tiresome at this point. When we watch matches on TV, there is no way the audio is good enough to show the true reaction in the stands and the anti-Djoker sentiment. The clip I posted showed first hand what the crowds are like. British crowds used to be sedate and extremely polite, not sure what's happened.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

The saddest thing is that Fed could easily say something to at least reduce some of the behavior. But what has he done? nothing.... IMO that is even more disrespectful from another ATG than it is coming from the fans.

What could Federer say that wouldn't open him to further attacks on his character, huh.

 

[Deleted member 744633]

That was the point of the thread, which predictably then descends into GOAT hysteria wars which are beyond tiresome at this point. When we watch matches on TV, there is no way the audio is good enough to show the true reaction in the stands and the anti-Djoker sentiment. The clip I posted showed first hand what the crowds are like. British crowds used to be sedate and extremely polite, not sure what's happened.

100% agreed. Which is why I was startled by the clip you posted. Up close with the fans gives a very different perspective than TV coverage.

 

[crazyups]

Have to say I felt sorry for Djokovic after watching @BeatlesFan clip. Such a brilliant player, an all-time great and yet he gets treated like this. Gotta be tough for Djokovic.

I want to say one thing though ... that this behavior by the fans only motivates Djokovic further to break Federer's records. So if those Federer fans think they're helping Federer, they're not. They're doing the opposite, propelling Djokovic ever closer to Federer's records.

Djoker is watching Mad Lad.

 

[Deleted member 744633]

The saddest thing is that Fed could easily say something to at least reduce some of the behavior. But what has he done? nothing.... IMO that is even more disrespectful from another ATG than it is coming from the fans.

Well Federer could do that but he'd look like a complete fool if he did that for 2 reasons-

1. You shouldn't be pitching for your opponents

2. You can't be telling grown up people how they should behave in a tennis match

 

[Deleted member 744633]

Djoker is watching Mad Lad.

LOL X 10,000 Anything is possible!

 

[Federer and Del Potro]

Meh the crowd could do a bit better I suppose, at least arguably.

But it’s not like there’s anything we can do about crowds... people will do what they want to do. Can’t control other people. It would be on the tournament directors and people with actual power to do something about unruly fans.

 

[Enceladus]

I agree.
After that USO final, which is the worst crowd I have ever seen in my life, Fed said the crowd was amazing. Made me start to dislike Federer.

Federer doesn't lack of experience with an enemy / shameful crowd. Obviously, he cannot understand the situation of a tennis player who is confronted with a enemy /shamefully crowd.

 

[Fridge]

What could Federer say that wouldn't open him to further attacks on his character, huh.

Oh i don't know. Maybe something like "hey guys I really appreciate your support but let's not show Novak and ill will"

 

[Fridge]

Well Federer could do that but he'd look like a complete fool if he did that for 2 reasons-

1. You shouldn't be pitching for your opponents

2. You can't be telling grown up people how they should behave in a tennis match

1. He isn't pitching. He is being respectful to a fellow ATG
2. I would argue that Fed fans still have some growing to do.

 

[Alexrb]

Have to say I felt sorry for Djokovic after watching @BeatlesFan clip. Such a brilliant player, an all-time great and yet he gets treated like this. Gotta be tough for Djokovic.

I want to say one thing though ... that this behavior by the fans only motivates Djokovic further to break Federer's records. So if those Federer fans think they're helping Federer, they're not. They're doing the opposite, propelling Djokovic ever closer to Federer's records.

Idk man, I think if anything the crowds lack of support will only lessen his time on the tour overall. Nobody likes to go to a job where they don't feel appreciated. That said he has done a great job of blocking it out and performing.

 

[StringGuruMRT]

I was at the USO final in 05 when Fed beat Agassi. Probably one of the last times Fed had to face a crowd where the majority was against him!

 

[Sport]

I was at the USO final in 05 when Fed beat Agassi. Probably one of the last times Fed had to face a crowd where the majority was against him!

That is, I believe, a little bit of an exaggeration. Federer faced Nadal in Madrid 2009 and Madrid 2011, with the majority of the crowd being obviously pro-Nadal. Federer also faced Murray in the 2012 Olympics final with the majority of the public being pro-Murray.

Now, in recent years, I don't remember any case of Federer having less fans than his rival. However, at the US Open 2017 the Argentinian crowd was so noisy that their cheer was maybe even more noticieable than that of Federer fans.

 

[Gazelle]

Djokovic had 15 years to win the crowd over. It's his own fault that he failed to do so.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Oh i don't know. Maybe something like "hey guys I really appreciate your support but let's not show Novak and ill will"

"Why didn't you do that earlier?" etc.

It's the sort of thing you either do instantly on the first opportunity or never, else it would come off as disingenious anyway.

 

[The Green Mile]

I wonder if some of the insanity comes from the feeling that Federer is the underdog. I'm probably reacting the same way the crowd does watching at home tbh

Individually most of the fans probably aren't too disrespectful but when there's 10,000 all living and dying by every point it ends up being really classless and uncomfortable to watch.

When it stoops to cheering double faults that's when you know the crowd is nasty.

I can be a real POS when watching with a mate at home lol. Can't ever imagine it crossing over to a live match though.

 

[NatF]

I can be a real POS when watching with a mate at home lol. Can't ever imagine it crossing over to a live match though.

Man I'm on my hands and knees praying for double faults when I'm at home I keep it bottled up when I'm at an actual match.

 

[MichaelNadal]

Man I'm on my hands and knees praying for double faults when I'm at home I keep it bottled up when I'm at an actual match.

Exactly. And let's not forget Djokovic has won more matches that he should have lost than any other player. Hardcore fans don't forget that

 

[the green god]

Really? This is small potatoes compared to how Lendl was treated by crowds.

 

[Rogfan]

Last year I went to AO and caught a bit of Djoker’s practice in an outside court with a stand. It was packed on the stand and along the court. He was very friendly with the fans and gave a lot of autographs. More than Fed I have to say. I was very close to get one and I remember feeling very happy for him and his fans. I think he should take a leaf out of Medvedev’s book - give the crowd the middle finger when the situation warrants, instead of still trying to ask for love. Then when he’s in a good mood or win the tournament, he can apologise all he wants. But I reckon he’s too big a star to do it now.

 

[Enceladus]

Djokovic had 15 years to win the crowd over. It's his own fault that he failed to do so.

It is not easy to gain fans who are influenced by prejudices against the people from Eastern Europe. It's not just Djoker's problem, Lendl, Navratilova and Seles had the similarly trouble with gain of fans.

 

[Yoneyama]

It always seems to be the US and British crowds that are insanely biased againt Novak. I always go for Fed over Novak but sometimes I just think to myself wow, have some class... the OP's video is one of those times.

 

[OhYes]

I don't agree with presumption that obnoxious cheering came with Federer being underdog.
It all started really really ugly in Wimbledon 2015, continued at UO 2015 with even more passion. 2015 was the year Federer introduced SABR and played insane tennis, he was some years stuck at 17 slams and his fans hoped, I guess, that this new dominant Roger would finally win some more.

What are the consequences of all that ?
Well for starters, from player's point of view - Novak can't (or isn't allowed to) truly enjoy his wins over toughest and most iconic players this sport has ever seen. He can enjoy in his solitude, but tennis world is not going to feel happy about it, there will always be grumpy spiteful voices that would find it's way even to headlines of magazines.
He gets distracted a lot in matches. You can say he is special kind of guy that feeds from it, but we all know there is no such person especially in sports that likes more to be booed than cheered for. So he plays with that unnecessary burden a lot of times.
His fans are feeling this too when they come to watch matches. They feel bad all the time and can't cheer for their guy surrounded by many really vocal Fed fans. Istead of enjoying a match, they feel lousy.

 

[HetTheGreaterer]

For many years, a lot of Djokovic fans have complained, sometimes bitterly, about how awful the pro-Fed fans are. Just recently I pushed back a little against @NoleFam when this was brought up, but I see now I was wrong. The following clip from their last match at the YEC is almost sad to watch, since Djoker himself is obviously an ATG, so fans need to show some class. The fans here are so pro-Fed it becomes borderline obnoxious. And even as a Fed fan, it made me feel badly for Novak. I've seen them play live three times at IW in 2015, 2009/2012 Cincy and though the fans were pro-Fed, they were not at all disrespectful of Novak.

This really illustrates what the YEC crowds were like, it's worth watching.

Not nole, but most of the molefam surely deserves it.
They've been extremely venomous and rude to Roger fans

 

[OhYes]

Not nole, but most of the molefam surely deserves it.
They've been extremely venomous and rude to peaceful Saint Roger fans

Shame on us not recognizing true values.

 

[fedfan08]

So does the OP want tournaments to force people to cheer for Djokovic out of pity? it’s not Fed’s fault if more people in the stands are cheering for him. Fair or not Djokovic did have a reputation as not being very likable earlier in his career. And then he went overboard with trying to get the love to the point where it seemed fake.

 

[fedfan08]

That is, I believe, a little bit of an exaggeration. Federer faced Nadal in Madrid 2009 and Madrid 2011, with the majority of the crowd being obviously pro-Nadal. Federer also faced Murray in the 2012 Olympics final with the majority of the public being pro-Murray.

Now, in recent years, I don't remember any case of Federer having less fans than his rival. However, at the US Open 2017 the Argentinian crowd was so noisy that their cheer was maybe even more noticieable than that of Federer fans.

You forgot Miami 2007 against Guillermo Cañas. That crowd was awful.

 

[fedfan08]

Oh i don't know. Maybe something like "hey guys I really appreciate your support but let's not show Novak and ill will"

Oh please. Djokovic is a big boy. And he, like Nadal seems to play better when the crowd is more supportive of the opponent. Sorry but If we need to feel sorry for tennis players there are plenty of other players who deserve it more than Djokovic.

 

[mike danny]

Federer doesn't lack of experience with an enemy / shameful crowd. Obviously, he cannot understand the situation of a tennis player who is confronted with a enemy /shamefully crowd.

Wasn't the crowd not exactly on his side against Agassi at USO 2004 and 2005?

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

Tennis pro is at least humourous. Same as Deon guy with the “clay isn’t real tennis” stuff.

Sorry what?? Those two are spouting the same exact nonsense over and over again, there is nothing humorous at all just complete ****** posts better to be ignored. If there is a Nadal hater I find really funny it is vive le beau jeu. His hate posts are actually creative.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

The absolute worst fans / trolls on this forum are Fed haters. Spencer bore, nadal django etc.

While there are many great Fed fans one can have a good discussion with, I must admit the most ridiculous statements I have read here so far were from Fed fans, including:

- Clay is no real surface, clay slams don’t count, only count half etc. (Correct me if I missed something but I have never read the same about HC/Grass from even the worst Rafa troll).
- Nadal/Djokovic need to reach 26 slams to overtake Federer, everything less would not be enough.
- Federer will always be GOAT due to his playing style no matter what happens.
- the constant whining about Nadals US Open draws (while I have to admit that Djokodal fans are doing the same with Feds draws in 2004-2007).

maybe this is just my impression and there were equally bad posts from other fanbases which I simply missed. Maybe it is also because Federer has the biggest fan base around here out of the big three, which unfortunately also leads to a higher number of trolls.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

While there are many great Fed fans one can have a good discussion with, I must admit the most ridiculous statements I have read here so far were from Fed fans, including:

- Clay is no real surface, clay slams don’t count, only count half etc. (Correct me if I missed something but I have never read the same about HC/Grass from even the worst Rafa troll).

Have you read Tio's and Nadal's comments about fast grass as a surface?

- Nadal/Djokovic need to reach 26 slams to overtake Federer, everything less would not be enough.

I doubt that you have read that statement in its entirety, and am almost positive that it was more a way to describe the difficulty that a trend setting represents more than anything else. Of course that a player with 26 Majors will have had a more successful career than one with, say 20.

- Federer will always be GOAT due to his playing style no matter what happens.

Haven't the VBs for the longest time maintained that Nadal is the "real" GOAT "no matter what happens"?

- the constant whining about Nadals US Open draws (while I have to admit that Djokodal fans are doing the same with Feds draws in 2004-2007).

Uh, oh, you a kind of had to back yourself into a hole for what exactly reason? The long and illustrious history of the VB talking about weak era (which by definition pictures the draws in it as "weak") show that you haven't been paying attention, or, what is more probable, that you intentionally omit that fact.

At what point it starts being reasonable to discuss when a draw becomes questionable, if not when the champion of a Major meets an ATP 250/500 level of competition?

As for "bad" posts, there is a whole thread dedicated to most ridiculous statements that were actually said seriously, and not, as is the case with Deon, who all but made a parody of the statement of clay not being a real surface (to my knowledge no sane person shares that view, so it was done with the full knowledge that it is trolling. His repetitive stating of that view made it all the more obvious).

 

[Deleted member 744633]

1. He isn't pitching. He is being respectful to a fellow ATG
2. I would argue that Fed fans still have some growing to do.

1. Personally he is being quite respectful to Djokovic. I see no evidence to the contrary. His job is not to educate crowds.

2. That, I have no choice but to agree. In fact, I think you're being too polite

 

[Deleted member 744633]

Idk man, I think if anything the crowds lack of support will only lessen his time on the tour overall. Nobody likes to go to a job where they don't feel appreciated. That said he has done a great job of blocking it out and performing.

You make good points but I really hope he doesn't pull the plug for this reason. He does have his fair share of supporters and I hope he can draw upon them.

 

[Fridge]

Oh please. Djokovic is a big boy. And he, like Nadal seems to play better when the crowd is more supportive of the opponent. Sorry but If we need to feel sorry for tennis players there are plenty of other players who deserve it more than Djokovic.

I believe you are a lost cause son

 

[ABCD]

Federer fans are unique as they are only ones with religious experience; others just support their tennis players. Djokovic is particularly dangerous in destroying Federer myth as if he overtakes him in GS count and No1 weeks no mentally healthy individual would be able to reject notion that Djokovic is better than Federer.

 

[clout]

I've attended 4 matches live between Rafa and Fed in America. The fans were pro-Fed (70%-30%) but Rafa had plenty of fans still and no fan was disrespectful of Rafa at all. No clapping double faults and plenty of applause. Many Fed fans, I presume, dislike Djokovic since the parents said in 2011 he was the far greater and better player. Considering he had a handful of slams then, those comments were "ill advised." And Srdjan asked in 2014, "why is Federer even still playing?" Then Roger went on to win three more slams., LOL.

To Novak's credit, his parents have not been to a lot of matches since that time.

And again, you assume that all Fed fans are going to have mental breakdowns if Rafa passes 20 majors. If it happens, all credit to him, Fed should have won the heartbreaking matches he's lost in slams over the years, that's on him. Not Rafa.

Have you seen some of the posters on this site lol

 

[Poisoned Slice]

I'll always find it amusing how Murray does his flex pose when the opponent double faults on Top Spin 4. One of the funniest things in life. Have to be zoned in or I'll lose a point or 2.

But yeah, here in real life it is unacceptable. If it is for the win or something then fair enough.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

Have you read Tio's and Nadal's comments about fast grass as a surface?

Sure I did and absolutely disagree with it, but we are talking about TTW posters here why do you bring in statements from Nadal or Toni???

doubt that you have read that statement in its entirety, and am almost positive that it was more a way to describe the difficulty that a trend setting represents more than anything else. Of course that a player with 26 Majors will have had a more successful career than one with, say 20.

This statement was made more than once. I did read it in its entirety and how it was written it was meant seriously.

Haven't the VBs for the longest time maintained that Nadal is the "real" GOAT "no matter what happens"?

Equally idiotic statement of course. Nobody can be GOAT “no matter what happens”. Cannot remember any VB member stating this though. Even Octobrina never said anything like this as far as I know, then again I am not hanging around here 24/7. If you show me these posts I will gladly admit being wrong.

The long and illustrious history of the VB talking about weak era (which by definition pictures the draws in it as "weak") show that you haven't been paying attention, or, what is more probable, that you intentionally omit that fact.

Wrong. I am well aware of this and therefore already mentioned it in my post. Recently however, the posts about US Open 2017/Berrettini threads are way higher in number.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Sure I did and absolutely disagree with it, but we are talking about TTW posters here why do you bring in statements from Nadal or Toni???

I am just checking your standards. We certainly agree that those two are much more influential in the tennis world than the whole TTW crowd combined, so you must be disgusted by their claims.

This statement was made more than once. I did read it in its entirety and how it was written it was meant seriously.

More than once doesn't equal seriously. Whether it was serious depends on the reasoning. Accidentally I have read such too, that is why I know for a fact that the case is as I explained it.

Equally idiotic statement of course. Nobody can be GOAT “no matter what happens”. Cannot remember any VB member stating this though. Even Octobrina never said anything like this as far as I know, then again I am not hanging around here 24/7. If you show me these posts I will gladly admit being wrong.

Well, your memory is not very good, to put it mildly. Octobina? So, now a poster that is a parody of a debater is a measure of anything? Are you familiar with the H2H discussions from before several yers?

Wrong. I am well aware of this and therefore already mentioned it in my post. Recently however, the posts about US Open 2017/Berrettini threads are way higher in number.

It isn't wrong in the sense that you mention it, since your opinion doesn't seem to reflect that you consider its scope at all. You complain about the very thing your own is doing, only on a much larger scale done by your own fanbase. Recently is recently. It is called for a reason "recency bias". However specifically to the "berrettini" problem, I asked you:

At what point it starts being reasonable to discuss when a draw becomes questionable, if not when the champion of a Major meets an ATP 250/500 level of competition?

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

I am just checking your standards. We certainly agree that those two are much more influential in the tennis world than the whole TTW crowd combined, so you must be disgusted by their claims.

As a big fan of 90s grass, I strongly disagree with those statements as already mentioned. I would not say I was “disgusted” because honestly I do not really care much enough about their opinion. Maybe some other posters here shouldn’t either. Anyways, for our discussion at hand (bad statements from TTW posters), Nadals or Tonis statements are completely irrelevant, so it was rather pointless from you to bring it up.

More than once doesn't equal seriously. Whether it was serious depends on the reasoning. Accidentally I have read such too, that is why I know for a fact that the case is as I explained it.

good that you know it “for a fact”, I seriously doubt that you have read each and every of them. The ones I read were not written with any kind of sarcasm or irony. If it was meant differently then the respective poster should have put it better.

Well, your memory is not very good, to put it mildly. Octobina? So, now a poster that is a parody of a debater is a measure of anything? Are you familiar with the H2H discussions from before several yers?

my memory is typically very good. As you say several years ago, might have been before I joined. H2H discussions tend to go in favor of Nadal, as for a fact he is leading the H2H over Federer. I can however hardly imagine that any poster (maybe save certain joke posters who were banned after few weeks) would seriously claim that Nadal will “always be GOAT no matter what” only because he leads the H2H over Fed. It wouldn’t make sense at all, if in ten years time another player reaches 25 slams why the hell shouldn’t he be greater than Nadal only because Nadal leads a H2H against another player. But since according to you such or similar statements were made several times it should be easy for you to show me those.

isn't wrong in the sense that you mention it, since your opinion doesn't seem to reflect that you consider its scope at all. You complain about the very thing your own is doing, only on a much larger scale done by your own fanbase. Recently is recently. It is called for a reason "recency bias". However specifically to the "berrettini" problem, I asked you:

Do not know what you mean with “your own” or “your own fanbase”. As stated several times I am not a Nadal fan and even less so a Djokovic fan. You will find several posts from me here no real Nadal fanboy would ever make. Apart from this my user name alone should be enough for you to figure it out yourself. As for Berrettini. Sure he is not necessarily the strongest opponent you can get, the disastrous state of today’s tennis with generation useless is well known and almost inevitably leads to weaker draws. We can discuss about weak draws for each and every player, however, the simple idea, that certain slams should not count and - on top of this - that complete no-names in a tennis forum have any authority to decide which slam counts and which not is so unbelievably laughable that I do not know what to say.

 

[Genious at Work]

For many years, a lot of Djokovic fans have complained, sometimes bitterly, about how awful the pro-Fed fans are. Just recently I pushed back a little against @NoleFam when this was brought up, but I see now I was wrong. The following clip from their last match at the YEC is almost sad to watch, since Djoker himself is obviously an ATG, so fans need to show some class. The fans here are so pro-Fed it becomes borderline obnoxious. And even as a Fed fan, it made me feel badly for Novak. I've seen them play live three times at IW in 2015, 2009/2012 Cincy and though the fans were pro-Fed, they were not at all disrespectful of Novak.

This really illustrates what the YEC crowds were like, it's worth watching.

I'm sure Djokovic is a nice guy in private, but I can't feel sorry for him when audiences boo him. He's spent half of his career antagonizing the public (when not just insulting them) and the other half begging for their love. There is a reason audiences tend to favor Federer and Nadal more, and it has nothing to do with Djoker being Eastern European.

And this has nothing to do with his sporting achievements.

 

[fedfan08]

I believe you are a lost cause son

Sorry I have a hard time feeling sorry for a guy who’s made over $135 million in prize money.

 

[fedfan08]

I'm sure Djokovic is a nice guy in private, but I can't feel sorry for him when audiences boo him. He's spent half of his career antagonizing the public (when not just insulting them) and the other half begging for their love. There is a reason audiences tend to favor Federer and Nadal more, and it has nothing to do with Djoker being Eastern European.

And this has nothing to do with his sporting achievements.

Exactly.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

As a big fan of 90s grass, I strongly disagree with those statements as already mentioned. I would not say I was “disgusted” because honestly I do not really care much enough about their opinion. Maybe some other posters here shouldn’t either. Anyways, for our discussion at hand (bad statements from TTW posters), Nadals or Tonis statements are completely irrelevant, so it was rather pointless from you to bring it up.

You should be "disgusted" as their impact on the reputation of the sport is, as I said, substantial. The discussion "at hand" is not about "bad statements from TTW posters" so I have no idea why you say that. That you thought that that is the topic is on you.

good that you know it “for a fact”, I seriously doubt that you have read each and every of them. The ones I read were not written with any kind of sarcasm or irony. If it was meant differently then the respective poster should have put it better.

I don't need to read "each and every one of them" to know the general perception, and like I said whether they are said seriously is obvious from the argumentation used. So far I haven't seen anything serious, so..... As for "should have put it better" exaggeration is a perfectly legitimate tool for making a point, so maybe you should read better.

my memory is typically very good. As you say several years ago, might have been before I joined. H2H discussions tend to go in favor of Nadal, as for a fact he is leading the H2H over Federer. I can however hardly imagine that any poster (maybe save certain joke posters who were banned after few weeks) would seriously claim that Nadal will “always be GOAT no matter what” only because he leads the H2H over Fed. It wouldn’t make sense at all, if in ten years time another player reaches 25 slams why the hell shouldn’t he be greater than Nadal only because Nadal leads a H2H against another player. But since according to you such or similar statements were made several times it should be easy for you to show me those.

No, it is not. Threads about Nadal being GOAT NOW appear regularly even nowadays, even though his career achievements are unquestionably weaker than those of Federer, so where have you been in your time here posting but not seeing them. I am not going to make extra efforts for troll requests. That is like me asking you to prove that the Earth is not flat. I am sure that you will find finding the proof for that a very good use of your time.

Do not know what you mean with “your own” or “your own fanbase”. As stated several times I am not a Nadal fan and even less so a Djokovic fan. You will find several posts from me here no real Nadal fanboy would ever make. Apart from this my user name alone should be enough for you to figure it out yourself. As for Berrettini. Sure he is not necessarily the strongest opponent you can get, the disastrous state of today’s tennis with generation useless is well known and almost inevitably leads to weaker draws. We can discuss about weak draws for each and every player, however, the simple idea, that certain slams should not count and - on top of this - that complete no-names in a tennis forum have any authority to decide which slam counts and which not is so unbelievably laughable that I do not know what to say.

If you were interested mainly in Borg, you wouldn't be in this section, but in the Former Pros section. I have too much experience here to know better, and I have seen your posts before. As for other posts, even the biggest fanboys on this site realise that they would be making fools of themselves if they don't recognise certain things, so ...

Your speculation that "weak draw" equals "Majors should not count" tells me enough about what you are prepared to do in this discussion and, more importantly, where you stand. You have started with the logical fallacies even before the discussion was underway as far as estimate about what a weak draw is. The fact that you also try to negate any opinion in direction different than yours as "insignificant" due to coming from a member of a forum also speaks volumes about your approach towards the problem. Who are you then? Because, I don't see anyone claiming "authority" when discussing the problem (which is not what you say it is as already noted). The people have discussions about the relative weakness of certain tournament, which neither reduces its official standing, nor is it irrelevant as far as measuring the achievement itself.

 

[BorgTheGOAT]

You should be "disgusted" as their impact on the reputation of the sport is, as I said, substantial. The discussion "at hand" is not about "bad statements from TTW posters" so I have no idea why you say that. That you thought that that is the topic is on you.

The poster I was responding to was talking about TTW posters and I mentioned some bad statements from TTW posters I read over the time when you chimed in without being asked talking about Nadal and Toni. So yes, the topic at hand was “TTW posters” that you try to change the topic is on you. Not so hard to get isn’t it.

No, it is not. Threads about Nadal being GOAT NOW appear regularly even nowadays, even though his career achievements are unquestionably weaker than those of Federer, so where have you been in your time here posting but not seeing them.

Great. And now? I am perfectly aware that some people here are claiming Nadal GOAT, however, is there anybody claiming that Nadal is GOAT and always will be no matter what happens in the future?? I am yet to see such a post.

If you were interested mainly in Borg, you wouldn't be in this section, but in the Former Pros section. I have too much experience here to know better, and I have seen your posts before. As for other posts, even the biggest fanboys on this site realise that they would be making fools of themselves if they don't recognise certain things, so ...

This is dumb even for your standards. So because I am a fan of one particular player I cannot discuss other players or have the slightest interest in tennis in general. You mean everyone who is a fan of a former player should only stick around in the former pro player section?? Makes perfect sense.

Your speculation that "weak draw" equals "Majors should not count" tells me enough about what you are prepared to do in this discussion and, more importantly, where you stand. You have started with the logical fallacies even before the discussion was underway as far as estimate about what a weak draw is. The fact that you also try to negate any opinion in direction different than yours as "insignificant" due to coming from a member of a forum also speaks volumes about your approach towards the problem. Who are you then? Because, I don't see anyone claiming "authority" when discussing the problem (which is not what you say it is as already noted). The people have discussions about the relative weakness of certain tournament, which neither reduces its official standing, nor is it irrelevant as far as measuring the achievement itself.

Yea whatever.