This is where it all went wrong for resurgent federer

HetTheGreaterer

HetTheGreaterer

Banned

He's never been the same afterwards. Since then, he doesn't hit the ball with same conviction, authority and nothing to lose mentality (apart from wimby19 vs rafa and yec19 vs djok).
This loss should have never happened to Roger.. It had huge and much bigger impacts than what most of us realise today. The rest of 2018 wouldn't have been worse than 2013 for roger, if not for this loss. It cost him several weeks at no.1 directly. And looking at post effects, the cascade butterfly effect imo cost him big time in grass season, NA HC ......

I'd appreciate your thoughts on it, especially fed fans
 
RS

RS

Bionic Poster
HetTheGreaterer said:

He's never been the same afterwards. Since then, he doesn't hit the ball with same conviction, authority and nothing to lose mentality (apart from wimby19 vs rafa and yec19 vs djok).
This loss should have never happened to Roger.. It had huge and much bigger impacts than what most of us realise today. The rest of 2018 wouldn't have been worse than 2013 for roger, if not for this loss. It cost him several weeks at no.1 directly. And looking at post effects, the cascade butterfly effect imo cost him big time in grass season, NA HC ......

I'd appreciate your thoughts on it, especially fed fans
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Actually. Roger came back well from Dubai 2019 to Wimbeldon 2019.
 
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

Talk Tennis Guru
Maybe he thought of the 2018 IW during last year's Wimbledon final... :whistle:

It was probably a turning point for Federer when looking at the last three seasons. He was basically in total control against the field until then. Thank God it's more balanced now.
 
ForehandRF

ForehandRF

Legend
HetTheGreaterer said:

He's never been the same afterwards. Since then, he doesn't hit the ball with same conviction, authority and nothing to lose mentality (apart from wimby19 vs rafa and yec19 vs djok).
This loss should have never happened to Roger.. It had huge and much bigger impacts than what most of us realise today. The rest of 2018 wouldn't have been worse than 2013 for roger, if not for this loss. It cost him several weeks at no.1 directly. And looking at post effects, the cascade butterfly effect imo cost him big time in grass season, NA HC ......

I'd appreciate your thoughts on it, especially fed fans
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I dunno if that loss had such a big impact.He had a hand injury in the second half of the season, so this changed things.He wasn't the same player, but I think age finally caught up and a continuous good form like in the first half of 2017 would have been unrealistic.

No doubt it was a stupid loss, but it's becoming a tradition at IW.He has lost 4 finals there IIRC, should have been the undisputed 'King of the Desert ' by now.
 
Sport

Sport

G.O.A.T.
But Federer almost won Wimbledon 2019. No way can you compare his deep run at Wimbledon 2019 with his previous bad results at WB 2018 or the AO 2019.

So I wouldn't say he has had a uniform decline in form and results after IW 2018.
 
Towny

Towny

Hall of Fame
Eh, I see his IW 2018 loss as more of a symptom than the cause.

He won the AO 2018 but bear in mind his draw was pretty weak until the final. And then in the final, he went to 5 with Cilic. Now Cilic isn't a mug, but I expected Federer to take it in 4. The tournament was easily his weakest slam win for me, impressive only because he was 36 when he managed it.

Even Federer 2017 was very much a year of 2 halves. In the beginning of the year, he wins AO, IW and Miami. Some good high level tennis. He played well at Wimbledon and Halle too. But after the back injury in Montreal, most of the rest of the season was at a lower level. A limp loss to Zverev is the Montreal final. A QF loss to Delpo at the USO. A bizarre loss to Goffin at the WTF. Sure Shanghai and Basel were decent, but Federer wasn't quite at the same level as he was in the early season. So when he wasnt in great from in 2018, I wasn't surprised.

Fortunately last year, he picked himself up. Pretty decent form from IW through to Wimbledon. Hoping for a recovery of form and consistency this year, but I'm not expecting 2017 again.
 
S

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
"This loss should have never happened". Here I have to agree, because Federer should have never been in this final. That was some hell of a choke from Coric in the semifinals. Then in the final Del Potro was the better player for most of the match and missed a pretty good chance to win in straights. It really looked like Federer totally owns the field at players were afraid of him, and the close losses in IW and Miami brought him down to Earth. However, I don't think it really broke him for a long time. After Wimbledon 2018 he was terrible until the end of the year, but not sure it has something to do with the loss in IW, he just lost his form. And for sure this loss had nothing to do with his 2019 results.
 
S

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
Towny said:
Eh, I see his IW 2018 loss as more of a symptom than the cause.

He won the AO 2018 but bear in mind his draw was pretty weak until the final. And then in the final, he went to 5 with Cilic. Now Cilic isn't a mug, but I expected Federer to take it in 4. The tournament was easily his weakest slam win for me, impressive only because he was 36 when he managed it.

Even Federer 2017 was very much a year of 2 halves. In the beginning of the year, he wins AO, IW and Miami. Some good high level tennis. He played well at Wimbledon and Halle too. But after the back injury in Montreal, most of the rest of the season was at a lower level. A limp loss to Zverev is the Montreal final. A QF loss to Delpo at the USO. A bizarre loss to Goffin at the WTF. Sure Shanghai and Basel were decent, but Federer wasn't quite at the same level as he was in the early season. So when he wasnt in great from in 2018, I wasn't surprised.

Fortunately last year, he picked himself up. Pretty decent form from IW through to Wimbledon. Hoping for a recovery of form and consistency this year, but I'm not expecting 2017 again.
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I think Federer in Shanghai 2017 played just as well as at the beginning of the year.
 
tennisaddict

tennisaddict

Bionic Poster
After 2009, Federer has lost countless matches that he should have won . I would say he has lost more matches this way than losing outright.
 
BeatlesFan

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
HetTheGreaterer said:

He's never been the same afterwards. Since then, he doesn't hit the ball with same conviction, authority and nothing to lose mentality (apart from wimby19 vs rafa and yec19 vs djok).
This loss should have never happened to Roger.. It had huge and much bigger impacts than what most of us realise today. The rest of 2018 wouldn't have been worse than 2013 for roger, if not for this loss. It cost him several weeks at no.1 directly. And looking at post effects, the cascade butterfly effect imo cost him big time in grass season, NA HC ......

I'd appreciate your thoughts on it, especially fed fans
Click to expand...
Het, the moment I saw the thread title I thought to myself, "Indian Wells match against Del Po." When I opened the page, I see you agree. And you're right, he's never been the same. I remember thinking, "Oh God, I thought he'd conquered the choking." And then after this match, there came many other such chokes whereas 2017 only had one choke - the Goffin one at the end of the year.
 
HetTheGreaterer

HetTheGreaterer

Banned
FedIsBoat said:
Del Potro, yes, a not as visible thorn of Federer's career. USO2009 was perhaps the biggest one that got away.
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Again, none apart from fed is to be blamed.
Whenever he plays Delpotro, he becomes stubborn and tries to prove that his Forehand is bigger than Delpo's. And in desperate attempts, he puts 8/10 balls to Delpotro Forehand, which essentially is a suicide if the big Argentine has enough gas left in the tank...
 
HetTheGreaterer

HetTheGreaterer

Banned
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
Maybe he thought of the 2018 IW during last year's Wimbledon final... :whistle:

It was probably a turning point for Federer when looking at the last three seasons. He was basically in total control against the field until then. Thank God it's more balanced now.
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It was a bad turning point.
He could have won much more than what he did after that friggin loss.
All the mental demons exorcised in 2017 came back in full flow, and since than fed has blown countless winnable matches, both with holding match point and with holding match point.
 
HetTheGreaterer

HetTheGreaterer

Banned
ForehandRF said:
I dunno if that loss had such a big impact.He had a hand injury in the second half of the season, so this changed things.He wasn't the same player, but I think age finally caught up and a continuous good form like in the first half of 2017 would have been unrealistic.

No doubt it was a stupid loss, but it's becoming a tradition at IW.He has lost 4 finals there IIRC, should have been the undisputed 'King of the Desert ' by now.
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The hand injury was the result of rust and rush..
I believe fed had plans to play clay that year as well, but the frustration lead him the wrong way and ultimately cost him a lot of things
 
HetTheGreaterer

HetTheGreaterer

Banned
Sport said:
But Federer almost won Wimbledon 2019. No way can you compare his deep run at Wimbledon 2019 with his previous bad results at WB 2018 or the AO 2019.

So I wouldn't say he has had a uniform decline in form and results after IW 2018.
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The decline wasn't uniform at all.
It was a sudden collapse.
 
HetTheGreaterer

HetTheGreaterer

Banned
StrongRule said:
I think Federer in Shanghai 2017 played just as well as at the beginning of the year.
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Only in last 4 sets he played that tournament.
Looked very vulnerable against Diego Schwartzman and Richard Gasquet of all people in R32 and QF. Then he really picked up the game against Delpo and then Rafa
 
HetTheGreaterer

HetTheGreaterer

Banned
Enceladus said:
Error. Federer also lost two IW finals in a row in 2014 & 2015, losing to Djoker in both finals.
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He had no business winning the 2015 final, had to play with all guns blazing for a 5 games' stretch to snatch the 2nd set TB
In 2014 it was winnable, but again a poor show in the final set TB & 2nd set after blasting Novak totally off the court for one set
 
ForehandRF

ForehandRF

Legend
JaoSousa said:
I have lost count of how many times he was 1 away from both NCYGS and CYGS
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At least in 06-07 he was stopped at the French by Nadal, but that loss vs Delpo in 09 should have never happened.That's the only time he lost a slam final to someone not named Djokovic or Nadal.
 
C

ChrisRF

Legend
Towny said:
Eh, I see his IW 2018 loss as more of a symptom than the cause.

He won the AO 2018 but bear in mind his draw was pretty weak until the final. And then in the final, he went to 5 with Cilic. Now Cilic isn't a mug, but I expected Federer to take it in 4. The tournament was easily his weakest slam win for me, impressive only because he was 36 when he managed it.

Even Federer 2017 was very much a year of 2 halves. In the beginning of the year, he wins AO, IW and Miami. Some good high level tennis. He played well at Wimbledon and Halle too. But after the back injury in Montreal, most of the rest of the season was at a lower level. A limp loss to Zverev is the Montreal final. A QF loss to Delpo at the USO. A bizarre loss to Goffin at the WTF. Sure Shanghai and Basel were decent, but Federer wasn't quite at the same level as he was in the early season. So when he wasnt in great from in 2018, I wasn't surprised.

Fortunately last year, he picked himself up. Pretty decent form from IW through to Wimbledon. Hoping for a recovery of form and consistency this year, but I'm not expecting 2017 again.
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To be fair, the 2018 Australian Open wasn’t bad. Yes, the draw was easy, but he reached the final without losing a set, as impressive as it gets.

Also Rotterdam was a great tournament, and until the late Indian Wells rounds (Coric and then the Del Potro loss) he looked somewhat invincible again. I mean for the moment of course, it was clear that it wouldn’t last like forever.

So this loss (his first of the year) took this aura from him and also from his own mind, so surely it COULD have had an impact for further chokes. Of course it’s nothing compared to the Wimbledon final 2019 and also the earlier Anderson loss, but when it happened it had a meaning.
 
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Sport

Sport

G.O.A.T.
ChrisRF said:
To be fair, the 2018 Australian Open wasn’t bad. Yes, the draw was easy, but he reached the final without losing a set, as impessive as it gets.

Also Rotterdam was a great tournament, and until the late Indian Wells rounds (Coric and then the Del Potro loss) he looked somewhat invincible again. I mean for the moment of course, it was clear that it wouldn’t last like forever.

So this loss (his first of the year) took this aura from him and also from his own mind, so surely it COULD have had an impact for further chokes. Of course it’s nothing compared to the Wimbledon final 2019 and also the earlier Anderson loss, but when it happened it had a meaning.
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Federer's road to the final was unimpressive. He faced declined and old Gasquet and Berdych in his road to the final. Federer may be older but his form was still good (he was #2 in the world during the AO and was the defending Champion of 2 Slams) while Gasquet and Berdych were outside the top 20. Nadal last year reached the AO final without losing a set facing stronger competition (a young and well-playing top 10 Tsitsipas who previously had defeated the AO defending champion Federer). Nadal also defeated Berdych in 3 like Federer the year before (Berdych was a shadow of himself both at the AO 2018 and the AO 2019). Yet we all saw how Nadal's form was unimpressive once Djokovic exposed his lack of movement in the final.

Federer's performance in the AO 2018 final was solid and clutch though. He faced a well-playing Cilic and defeated him.
 
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C

ChrisRF

Legend
Sport said:
Federer's road to the final was unimpressive. He faced declined and old Gasquet and Berdych in his road to the final. Federer may be older but his form was still good (he was #2 in the world during the AO and was the defending Champion of 2 Slams) while Gasquet and Berdych were outside the top 20. Nadal last year reached the AO final without losing a set facing stronger competition (a young and well-playing top 10 Tsitsipas who previously had defeated the AO defending champion Federer). Nadal also defeated Berdych in 3 like Federer the year before (Berdych was a shadow of himself both at the AO 2018 and the AO 2019). Yet we all saw how Nadal's form was unimpressive once Djokovic exposed his lack of movement in the final.

Federer's performance in the AO 2018 final was solid and clutch though. He faced a well-playing Cilic and defeated him.
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For me reaching a Slam final without losing a set is always impressive. You didn’t show any weakness, what else can you do? The draw isn’t your fault, and it's a rare feature under any circumstances.

Nadal really played great at last year’s Australian Open, but then he came out for the final with seemingly no hope from the beginning. Djokovic on the other hand wasn’t that impressive in the earlier rounds. It was strange.
 
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mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Sport said:
Federer's road to the final was unimpressive. He faced declined and old Gasquet and Berdych in his road to the final. Federer may be older but his form was still good (he was #2 in the world during the AO and was the defending Champion of 2 Slams) while Gasquet and Berdych were outside the top 20. Nadal last year reached the AO final without losing a set facing stronger competition (a young and well-playing top 10 Tsitsipas who previously had defeated the AO defending champion Federer). Nadal also defeated Berdych in 3 like Federer the year before (Berdych was a shadow of himself both at the AO 2018 and the AO 2019). Yet we all saw how Nadal's form was unimpressive once Djokovic exposed his lack of movement in the final.

Federer's performance in the AO 2018 final was solid and clutch though. He faced a well-playing Cilic and defeated him.
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Actually, Berdych was a top 20 player at AO 2018 and in much better form than at AO 2019. It's not even comparable.

AO 2018 was better than USO 2017 and about the same level as USO 2019.
 
T

Tennis_Hands

Banned
Where it went wrong for resurgent Federer is the constant injuries that regularly hamper his level when he is playing. It is pretty normal for his age, so it is not even all that "wrong". Other than that Federer's performances are stellar.

:cool:
 
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

Talk Tennis Guru
HetTheGreaterer said:
It was a bad turning point.
He could have won much more than what he did after that friggin loss.
All the mental demons exorcised in 2017 came back in full flow, and since than fed has blown countless winnable matches, both with holding match point and with holding match point.
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There wasn't much more for Federer to win after that anyway. Djokovic returned to form in the summer of that year, and Nadal has been good for most of last year.

He's blown match points plenty of times before as well, and Del Potro caused him trouble before as well. The old man fairytale had to end at some point, it lasted quite a while anyway...
 
S

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
mike danny said:
Actually, Berdych was a top 20 player at AO 2018 and in much better form than at AO 2019. It's not even comparable.

AO 2018 was better than USO 2017 and about the same level as USO 2019.
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Medvedev in USO 2019 final played much better than Cilic in AO 2018. None of the sets Federer won in that AO final were even close. I still have no idea how it even went to 5 sets.
 
Hitman

Hitman

Bionic Poster
StrongRule said:
Medvedev in USO 2019 final played much better than Cilic in AO 2018. None of the sets Federer won in that AO final were even close, it was a 6-2 6-3 6-1 beatdown. I still have no idea how it even went to 5 sets.
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Nadal had a walkover also at USO 2019, so only had to play six matches. It all evens out. USO 2019 final was tougher, but overall the path to the title wasn't.
 
Sport

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Hitman said:
Nadal had a walkover also at USO 2019, so only had to play six matches. It all evens out.
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Chung retired after the first set in the SF against Federer, which is basically a walkover. It does not even out. AO 2018 is more similar to the USO 2017 than to the USO 2019. Cilic was nowhere near as good as Medevedev in the final.
 
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Hitman

Hitman

Bionic Poster
Sport said:
Facing Gasquet is like playing a walkover. It does not even out. AO 2018 is more similar to the USO 2017 than to the USO 2019. Cilic was nowherher near as good as Medevedev in the final.
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You mean the way Nadal played Gasquet in the USO 2013 semi, while Djokovic was taking on the Stanimal in five sets, coming back from two sets to one down? That Gasquet?
 
S

StrongRule

Talk Tennis Guru
Hitman said:
Nadal had a walkover also at USO 2019, so only had to play six matches. It all evens out. USO 2019 final was tougher, but overall the path to the title wasn't.
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Nadal had a walkover in the second round. Federer in AO 2018 had pretty much a walkover in the semifinals. (Chung showed up for a set and a half before retiring, with the way he played it doesn't really make a difference)
 
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