Two NEW Schedule Options for ATP

[Lleytonstation]

So, I like variety in all aspects of tennis, whether that be surface or shot selection and style of play. I am obviously a fan of grass, however, it should remain the shortest part of the season, but there should be more emphasis on it in my opinion.

So, I give you 4 options that the ATP could do.

Option #1: Move Wimbledon back a week and keep Halle where it is at but make it a master's 1000 and move Queens back one week and keep it a 500. In this option, we would take Cincy off the table and turn it into a 500 (some will not like this). This gives Germany a big tourney, grass a master's, keeps Queens at 500, and takes away Cincy (US will still have two masters 1000 and a slam to go along with a couple 500's).

Option #2: keep things the same but remove Paris as a master's and a few 500's and end the season with the WTF at the end of October. This gives the players less masters to have to attend, and gives them almost 2 full months to rest.

Option #3: do absolutely NOTHING.

Option #4: I am a genius, let me tell you what the ATP should do.

Now, obviously this is supposed to be a hypothetical fun debate. So I get there are finances and politics that would make these options almost impossible, so put that aside... or explain how you could overcome that.

 

[Deon Sanders]

Option 5: Remove clay. Fill two months with real tennis.

 

[OldschoolKIaus]

My option:

Madrid goes ATP250.
FO loses its major status and becomes a ATP500 (maybe they could manage a smaller tournament better).
Halle new ATP1000.
New fourth and finally indoor carpet major: somewhere in Asia.
Make World Tour Finals magic super fast.

 

[Subway Tennis]

So, I like variety in all aspects of tennis, whether that be surface or shot selection and style of play. I am obviously a fan of grass, however, it should remain the shortest part of the season, but there should be more emphasis on it in my opinion.

So, I give you 4 options that the ATP could do.

Option #1: Move Wimbledon back a week and keep Halle where it is at but make it a master's 1000 and move Queens back one week and keep it a 500. In this option, we would take Cincy off the table and turn it into a 500 (some will not like this). This gives Germany a big tourney, grass a master's, keeps Queens at 500, and takes away Cincy (US will still have two masters 1000 and a slam to go along with a couple 500's).

Option #2: keep things the same but remove Paris as a master's and a few 500's and end the season with the WTF at the end of October. This gives the players less masters to have to attend, and gives them almost 2 full months to rest.

Option #3: do absolutely NOTHING.

Option #4: I am a genius, let me tell you what the ATP should do.

Now, obviously this is supposed to be a hypothetical fun debate. So I get there are finances and politics that would make these options almost impossible, so put that aside... or explain how you could overcome that.

Make WTF an event that alternates between grass and clay to make more points available for the two surfaces.

It's not realistic to make Halle or Queens a m1000 without completely overhauling the event infrastructure. As it stands both events (Halle in particular) have nowhere near the facilities required to host a m1000 level draw.

 

[Lleytonstation]

Make WTF an event that alternates between grass and clay to make more points available for the two surfaces.

It's not realistic to make Halle or Queens a m1000 without completely overhauling the event infrastructure. As it stands both events (Halle in particular) have nowhere near the facilities required to host a m1000 level tournament.

I like the idea of switching WTF from Fed to Rafa... I mean grass then clay.

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Make Paris a 500 event - promote Halle to M1000. Paris already hosts a slam and Germany can have back the M1000 event they lost when Hamburg was demoted.

 

[Subway Tennis]

I like the idea of switching WTF from Fed to Rafa... I mean grass then clay.

I think Federer would also have considerable chances on the clay version, particularly if its indoor clay.

 

[BeatlesFan]

Make WTF an event that alternates between grass and clay to make more points available for the two surfaces.

How can the WTF be on grass when it's held in November?

 

[Lleytonstation]

How can the WTF be on grass when it's held in November?

In Australia? South America? Africa?

 

[Dondon]

Just play beach tennis

 

[Subway Tennis]

How can the WTF be on grass when it's held in November?

Plenty of facilities available at that time of year for such a small draw on grass. Would be great to see a clay and grass implementation somewhere down the track. Maybe even bring back carpet (a man can dream, can't he?)

 

[Lleytonstation]

Just play beach tennis

Fed can do that too...

 

[Technology Ruined Tennis]

I would bet that once Fed retires he will campaign for, and get, a grass masters. Probably be director of it at the beginning. He just doesn't want to look self-serving while he's still playing.

 

[Gary Duane]

For the record, I'm not a fan of the tennis at Halle because I don't like the shadows, but at least it has a roof!!!

 

[Lleytonstation]

For the record, I'm not a fan of the tennis at Halle because I don't like the shadows, but at least it has a roof!!!

I love that atmosphere, it is like an indoor grass feel. The vibe to me is very different, something tennis could use.

 

[Gary Duane]

I love that atmosphere, it is like an indoor grass feel. The vibe to me is very different, something tennis could use.

I like the indoor feel. I like the intimacy. But the shadows bother me. For me Halle is ideal when they shut the roof. I like indoor tennis best. I think that's where you see the highest quality play.

 

[Lleytonstation]

I like the indoor feel. I like the intimacy. But the shadows bother me. For me Halle is ideal when they shut the roof. I like indoor tennis best. I think that's where you see the highest quality play.

True, and to be honest I would agree that when the roof is closed it is an even better atmosphere because of the sounds. Unlike AO, they still have natural light when the roof is closed.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Option 4

Here: https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/index.php?threads/a-radical-idea-about-the-tour-calendar.639540/

 

[Gary Duane]

True, and to be honest I would agree that when the roof is closed it is an even better atmosphere because of the sounds. I don't know if other stadiums have it like this, I know US doesn't, but they still have natural light when the roof is closed.

I love it with the roof closed. I have not watched yet this year (will do so tomorrow), but is that one of the events that has a slightly different camera angle? I seem to remember something about the angle I don't like but I may be thinking of another event.

I wish more lower angles were used, ones that are closer to court level. You can see so much more.

 

[Lleytonstation]

I love it with the roof closed. I have not watched yet this year (will do so tomorrow), but is that one of the events that has a slightly different camera angle? I seem to remember something about the angle I don't like but I may be thinking of another event.

I wish more lower angles were used, ones that are closer to court level. You can see so much more.

Possibly, but it could just be the shadows that make it seem weird. But I do remember thinking the camera angle was much higher.

 

[Towny]

Probably a combination of Option 1 and 2

I would probably promote Halle to a M1000 (has more capacity than Queen's, has a roof, gives Germany back a Masters) and demoted Paris. No one seems to care by the time Paris rolls around. This could also extend the off-season. France already have RG so it's not as though they have nothing. Maybe make Shanghai into an indoor tournament to compensate for the loss of an indoor masters.

I understand the issue with the USA already having a lot. But Cinicinnati is just much better attended/played by the top players than Paris so I feel Paris should be the one to go.

 

[Subway Tennis]

Probably a combination of Option 1 and 2

I would probably promote Halle to a M1000 (has more capacity than Queen's, has a roof, gives Germany back a Masters) and demoted Paris. No one seems to care by the time Paris rolls around. This could also extend the off-season. France already have RG so it's not as though they have nothing. Maybe make Shanghai into an indoor tournament to compensate for the loss of an indoor masters.

I understand the issue with the USA already having a lot. But Cinicinnati is just much better attended/played by the top players than Paris so I feel Paris should be the one to go.

I would hate to see Paris Masters go, but I agree Cincy would stay if it came down to a choice between the two only. Towny, if you could redesign the calendar top-to-bottom, what would it look like?

 

[OhYes]

OP dared not to mention prestigious Laver Cup ? Why moving Cincy ? Just squeeze in couple of hard court tournaments more, bcs if Fed wanted to play on grass - Laver Cup would be on grass.
Fed fans know nothing about Fed.

 

[Towny]

I would hate to see Paris Masters go, but I agree Cincy would stay if it came down to a choice between the two only. Towny, if you could redesign the calendar top-to-bottom, what would it look like?

It's a tough one. I've played around with the idea of upgrading Indian Wells to a masters 1500 or something equivalent. Sort of like a season opener and have the WTF as the season close. I'm not sure how it would work exactly and it would be a significant departure from the tour structure we've had for the last 30 years.

There are lots of issues people have with the current tour. Some feels there should be a masters leading in to the AO. Some think clay is too long or too short. Some feel we should have more tournaments on grass. Some think the while season should be shorter.

I don't think there needs to be a masters before the AO. Having a slam in Jamuary is an exciting start to the season. Plus, the players usually play well there, so I don't think it requires a warm up event. I would keep clay as it is. I think it's the perfect length.

The Halle upgrade/Paris downgrade would help the season length and grass issues. Grass shouldn't be longer than a few weeks IMO. Too expensive to maintain. 1 masters and a slam with some 250s and 50ps is enough.

I'm not generally a fan of big change so I wouldn't really want any massive sweeping changes. So probably the changes I suggested above plus maybe upgrading IW, thoigh not sure. And definitely make the WTF final best of 5 again.

What changes would you make?

 

[Lleytonstation]

Fed fans know nothing about Fed.

Huh? Not even sure what that means.

But the Later cup is not mandatory and is like a total of 16 guys playing a few matches...

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Huh? Not even sure what that means.

But the Later cup is not mandatory and is like a total of 16 guys playing a few matches...

Thank God that SIA is here to enlighten us about Fed.

 

[OhYes]

Huh? Not even sure what that means.

But the Later cup is not mandatory and is like a total of 16 guys playing a few matches...

It was a joke.

LC was also an exhibition and now isn't.

 

[Lleytonstation]

It was a joke.

LC was also an exhibition and now isn't.

Then what would you do if anything?

 

[OhYes]

Then what would you do if anything?

I would at least try to make LC on grass and change date of it's playing. Bcs seems to me LC is destined for high profile tournament section.

 

[Lleytonstation]

It's a tough one. I've played around with the idea of upgrading Indian Wells to a masters 1500 or something equivalent. Sort of like a season opener and have the WTF as the season close. I'm not sure how it would work exactly and it would be a significant departure from the tour structure we've had for the last 30 years.

There are lots of issues people have with the current tour. Some feels there should be a masters leading in to the AO. Some think clay is too long or too short. Some feel we should have more tournaments on grass. Some think the while season should be shorter.

I don't think there needs to be a masters before the AO. Having a slam in Jamuary is an exciting start to the season. Plus, the players usually play well there, so I don't think it requires a warm up event. I would keep clay as it is. I think it's the perfect length.

The Halle upgrade/Paris downgrade would help the season length and grass issues. Grass shouldn't be longer than a few weeks IMO. Too expensive to maintain. 1 masters and a slam with some 250s and 50ps is enough.

I'm not generally a fan of big change so I wouldn't really want any massive sweeping changes. So probably the changes I suggested above plus maybe upgrading IW, thoigh not sure. And definitely make the WTF final best of 5 again.

What changes would you make?

Oh man, can you imagine what changing IW into a mini slam at 1500 points would do to the GOAT debate. We don't need more junk to throw into that dark pit. But I like the idea of possibly going back to 3 out of 5 for masters finals.

 

[Subway Tennis]

It's a tough one. I've played around with the idea of upgrading Indian Wells to a masters 1500 or something equivalent. Sort of like a season opener and have the WTF as the season close. I'm not sure how it would work exactly and it would be a significant departure from the tour structure we've had for the last 30 years.

There are lots of issues people have with the current tour. Some feels there should be a masters leading in to the AO. Some think clay is too long or too short. Some feel we should have more tournaments on grass. Some think the while season should be shorter.

I don't think there needs to be a masters before the AO. Having a slam in Jamuary is an exciting start to the season. Plus, the players usually play well there, so I don't think it requires a warm up event. I would keep clay as it is. I think it's the perfect length.

The Halle upgrade/Paris downgrade would help the season length and grass issues. Grass shouldn't be longer than a few weeks IMO. Too expensive to maintain. 1 masters and a slam with some 250s and 50ps is enough.

I'm not generally a fan of big change so I wouldn't really want any massive sweeping changes. So probably the changes I suggested above plus maybe upgrading IW, thoigh not sure. And definitely make the WTF final best of 5 again.

What changes would you make?

The IW change is a very interesting concept, and I can see this happening. I like the idea as I think of IW as maybe the 5th or 6th biggest event.

For me, the two biggest things I would like changed are refreshing the WTF and getting more important grasscourt tennis into the calendar without extending the grass season (which can't get too much longer for the reasons you mentioned). My slap dash approach would be introducing grass as a surface option at WTF in some years, depending on the capabilities of the host nation. With that said, the WTF has become the defacto no. 1 indoor HC event so a grass iteration would also be impractical I guess.

Agree totally that making the WTF final back to what it used to be in the Masters Cup days (Bo5) is a very good idea and surely wouldn't create too much upheaval.

 

[DSH]

How can the WTF be on grass when it's held in November?

Vilas won The Masters Cup in Melbourne, on grass.

 

[DSH]

Har-tru, green clay again at the US Open.

 

[bwongman]

Paris has to go, because no one even cares about it, and there needs to be a Masters 1000 on grass.

Just get rid of Paris 1000 and push the schedule of everything from Wimbledon up to the ATP finals back a week to accommodate a grass 1000.

 

[Towny]

Oh man, can you imagine what changing IW into a mini slam at 1500 points would do to the GOAT debate. We don't need more junk to throw into that dark pit. But I like the idea of possibly going back to 3 out of 5 for masters finals.

Well part of my concern is that it makes comparisons with previous eras difficult. Then again, we need to factor in WCT finals and Grand slam Cups, neither of which have an equivalent today.

The IW change is a very interesting concept, and I can see this happening. I like the idea as I think of IW as maybe the 5th or 6th biggest event.

For me, the two biggest things I would like changed are refreshing the WTF and getting more important grasscourt tennis into the calendar without extending the grass season (which can't get too much longer for the reasons you mentioned). My slap dash approach would be introducing grass as a surface option at WTF in some years, depending on the capabilities of the host nation. With that said, the WTF has become the defacto no. 1 indoor HC event so a grass iteration would also be impractical I guess.

Agree totally that making the WTF final back to what it used to be in the Masters Cup days (Bo5) is a very good idea and surely wouldn't create too much upheaval.

I do tend to like the WTF as the big indoor event. Then again, would be up for seeing grass there too. I know Nadal has always wanted the surface to rotate so that it could be on clay. On balance, I would keep it as it is, but would be happy to get behind some kind of surface rotation scheme if it was done right

 

[tacou]

These aren’t exactly new..and I don’t think your grass season makes a lot of sense; add an extra week but have a 1000 and 500 share a week?

As for end of year, most players have already hit their mandatories by then. Seems like you’re just taking money away (plus, if you’re going to change mandatory rules, why not keep Paris but make it non-mandatory?)

 

[Lleytonstation]

These aren’t exactly new..and I don’t think your grass season makes a lot of sense; add an extra week but have a 1000 and 500 share a week?

As for end of year, most players have already hit their mandatories by then. Seems like you’re just taking money away (plus, if you’re going to change mandatory rules, why not keep Paris but make it non-mandatory?)

Never said share a master's and 500? Move back Queens...

Paris is overdoing it, no cares by then and is too inured or tired, needs to go. If they take it away no one feels like they have to force themselves to go for money or points.

 

[Steve0904]

The WTF should never rotate surfaces. It's been on indoor HC the large majority of its history. Nadal fans want Nadal to win it, I understand, but those are the breaks sometimes. He can't have it all his own way. I'm not making a suggestion here other than saying there should be more grass and less HC, but it won't happen in the foreseeable future IMO. Grass is harder to maintain than HC for most places.

 

[Third Serve]

Make Cincy a Grand Slam. We've waited nearly a decade now.

 

[BeatlesFan]

In Australia? South America? Africa?

No player is going to any of those countries in November unless they're from Australia and going there for the off season. That's why the AO changed its schedule in the 1980's from December to January. The WTF will never be held in any of those places, you know that.

 

[sureshs]

Switch to only natural surfaces - AO, FO and USO on clay, and Wimby on grass.

 

[tacou]

Never said share a master's and 500? Move back Queens...

Paris is overdoing it, no cares by then and is too inured or tired, needs to go. If they take it away no one feels like they have to force themselves to go for money or points.

Whoops misread that. I still think the grass season requires more extensive changes. You're right, plenty of people would be upset with Cincy losing masters status, not to mention moving Wimbledon back a week requires the entire rest of the schedule to be redone, unless you're going to cancel the tourneys that occur the following week and pickup from there (bad/unrealistic idea imo). Also, would be interesting to see the draws at Queens/Eastbourne if players could do a 250 and 1000 in Germany, then get two weeks off before Wimbledon.

As for Paris, I'm not sure "no one cares." People on this forum might be tired of tennis by season's end, but no one is being "forced" to obtain ranking points and hundreds of thousands of dollars. Now, making more events non-mandatory? All for that. But preventing lower ranked guys from making money/further development because the top players are resting before WTF doesn't sound smart or realistic to me.

 

[BHud]

Option #1 with the exception of removing the Roger's Cup instead of Cincy.

 

[Blade0324]

Where is the option to get rid of Grass completely. The game today has surpassed grass being a viable surface any more.

 

[BorisRogerFan]

Remove clay as a professional tennis surface. And remove retrospectively the clay majors out of the slams winners' list.

 

[TennisLBC]

Keep the Paris Masters. The WTF has been in London and they have Wimbledon; and it was in New York back in the day and they have the US Open. Paris is no less deserving a Master Event than anywhere else.

 

[Towser83]

Upgrade the facilities at both Halle and Queens and switch between them like Canada does, call it the European Grass Masters. Maybe move the events to different weeks so that they take turns between being a master and a 500 but you can still play both.

Possibly also get rid of Madrid to create a bit of space in the grass season. Or move clay masters a week earlier in the season

Switch between IW and Miami so you only have one per year.

Get rid of one of Shanghai or Paris but that's tricky cos you want it the same continent as wherever the WTF is going to be

 

[Lleytonstation]

Upgrade the facilities at both Halle and Queens and switch between them like Canada does, call it the European Grass Masters. Maybe move the events to different weeks so that they take turns between being a master and a 500 but you can still play both.

Possibly also get rid of Madrid to create a bit of space in the grass season. Or move clay masters a week earlier in the season

Switch between IW and Miami so you only have one per year.

Get rid of one of Shanghai or Paris but that's tricky cos you want it the same continent as wherever the WTF is going to be

Like, except the IW part, that is by far the best masters, I think you should keep the Sunshine double.

 

[Towser83]

Like, except the IW part, that is by far the best masters, I think you should keep the Sunshine double.

Yeah I do like the sunshine double too, just seems HC is a bit over represented in America with e masters there and I wpuldnt want to ditch cincy. But yeah perhaps you are right

 

[Sport]

Possibly also get rid of Madrid to create a bit of space in the grass season.

In your dreams. There are only 3 Masters 1000 on clay (as opposed to 6 on hard courts). If you want to add more titles on grass, remove from the hard court season to make the surface distribution more equitative between hard, clay and grass.