Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Oh you guysI don’t want to write long messages anymore. I don’t even write this much at work. I get what you all are saying.
As a fan of Serena though, I just refuse to believe that she is an inherently bad human being that you all describe her to be. I am a fan of her’s and still will be despite everything you’ve presented in this thread. Enjoy your discussions.
I also do not believe she is an inherently bad person in real life. The problem is, her competitive side comes out when she plays her sport, and sometimes it's extremely ugly, which is why many people aren't a fan and have never been regardless of how many GS she wins.
She takes serious offence to being called out for any and all rule violations and seemingly does not know how to argue (or shut her mouth) without pointing her finger and yelling at people or calling them derogatory names/insulting them.
And that doesn't even cover her obviously huge victim complex where she played all her -ism cards. She would look much better now if she apologized profusely, but she still believes the world is out to get her and that she did nothing wrong. It's just sad.
Also, bringing up the whole daughter thing was stupid. "OMG what will I ever tell my daughter? I've never been accused of cheating in my life." It isn't that big a deal, honestly, just tell your daughter that you were caught for coaching once, and you'll be laughing at it in old age, but it seems like Serena wants her daughter to think she's perfect or something. Another huge mistake.
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Mr.Lob
G.O.A.T.
You have any fillings left in your teeth? That's a lot of sticky candy.
milk of amnesia
Legend
As was I. That Katrina Adams lauded Serena as a roll model during the trophy ceremony was a complete outrage. Her press release in which she did not directly address Serena's abusive behavior towards Carlos Ramos but instead reiterated her praise for Serena was similarly disgusting. Adams' response to Serena's behavior made it clear to the umpires that they do not have the support of the USTA; but that the USTA will do what it can to downplay Serena's abusive behavior and sweep it under the rug. Katrina Adams should be fired and replaced by someone who has the leadership skills it takes to admit that Serena's behavior is a problem that needs to be corrected instead of ignored.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
If you already believe what you want to believe, there is no point of discussing it with you, because, let's be frank, what you say hangs on the fact that nothing will be put on further scrutiny, so it is my logic vs your beliefs.
If Patrick was coaching he would have done so only in a manner understandable to her.
Otherwise it wouldn’t make sense, no matter how desperate he might be, how subconsciously he might want to do it etc.
Serena also saw what he was signalling.
The only way such communication could make sense is if it has been discussed in detail prior to it being used.
If you want to discuss that logic, then I am ready to discuss what you might consider problematic.
Your theory that Serena wouldn't do something that might turn a Major final in her favour, just because she is stubborn, I find ridiculous.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Back to your collusion theory replete with factless speculation!
If you already believe what you want to believe there is no point if discussing it, because, let's be frank, what you say hangs on the fact that nothing will be put on further scrutiny, so it is my logic vs your beliefs.
If Patrick was coaching he would have done so only in a manner understandable to her.
Otherwise it wouldn’t make sense, no matter how desperate he might be, how subconsciously he might want to do it etc.
Serena also saw what he was signalling.
The only way such communication could make sense is if it has been discussed in detail prior to it being used.
If you want to discuss that logic, then I am ready to discuss what you might consider problematic.
Your theory that Serena wouldn't do something that might turn a Major final in her favour, just because she is stubborn, I find ridiculous.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
You are free to point at the weak points in the logic behind my theory.
Until then, you are only wasting everyone's time.
AM75
Hall of Fame
I wonder why Sascha wasn't caught while coaching Osaka, because according to PM he did it at every point. Was it because Ramos was instructed and probably bribed by Japanese to do the damage to Serena? If you make only $ 450 a match, someone like Uniqlo (who presumably will have a contract with Osaka after her Adidas sponsorship ends) can def. always offer you more.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
It's speculative so the whole thing is weak. You keep repeating it so you are the time-waster.
You are free to point at the weak points in the logic behind my theory.
Until then, you are only wasting everyone's time.
D
Deleted member 743561
Guest
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Tennis_Hands
Banned
So, you will not discuss the logic behind it.
If that is the case, I am sure that you have other places where you can demonstrate your vastless knowledge.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
D
Deleted member 743561
Guest
Ha. I've got some light reading to catch up on real quick.You are late.
It is almost finished.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Collusion is always possible, but it's better to analyse that hypothetically if that's your thing.
So abstract yourself from the Williams case as you are not dealing with the facts of the case as we know them.
So abstract yourself from the Williams case as you are not dealing with the facts of the case as we know them.
So, you will not discuss the logic behind it.
If that is the case, I am sure that you have other places where you can demonstrate your vastless knowledge.
disgruntledamsel
Professional
Too many fillings to count - and yes, many are silver, 6 root canals, a bridge, numerous crowns, veneers, that I chipped by eating those Jolly Ranchers and replaced with cosmetic crowns - one that I chipped today, a frenectomy that involved taking tissue from the roof of my mouth (kaka) and patching it to my lower gum line because my lower lip connective tissue was tearing down the gum line of my lower teeth (prseumably from talking too much), and one tonsil stone removal. I’m doing okay. Lucky me, my dentist has an incredible bedside manner and tells me stories like how he qualified for the world series of poker while he’s working on my teeth. It’s a good thing too, because back in my small hometown when I was a yoot, the local dentist accidentally caught a nerve in my cheek with the needle, and I went blind in my left eye for a second which was worrying, and then on a different occasion, the novocaine syringe accidentally leaked down my throat, numbing my neck. My head was a bobble that day.
How to explain this? I had a lot of antibiotics as a kid and it made my teeth soft, so I’ve had teeth issues from a very young age. Seeing root canal specialists by my teens. It’s alright though, I stay on top of my teeth, because once I went 2 years without a cleaning, and it was like Texas Chain Saw Massacre on the bib. Never again - that is one appointment I never miss - and why would I? I need my teeth - a girl’s gotta eat.
And my tongue is my sword.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
D
Deleted member 743561
Guest
Hehe, couple of the fiercest bulldogs I've encountered on the boards. Generally speaking, neither will give an inch.YOU CAN NOT BE SERIOUS!!! IT WAS CLEARLY OUT!
Edge to @Tennis_Hands for categorically breaking down every nuance, though.
celito
Professional
They have leverage. It's all about bringing in money.
imagine the drama if Serena had to call her own lines from that point on. I'd watch that.
mellowyellow
Legend
That won't happen, the USTA on a whole is corrupt. Announcing the seeding position they would take before Wimbledon which had 2 favorable outcomes in their eyes. The seeding they wrongfully gifted here, and now this detestable support for someone who was clearly in the wrong. They need to be investigated and probably need to be totally deconstructed and rebuilt from the top down.
JoelDali
Talk Tennis Guru
Katrina is a fake minority puppet for a huge group of white folks that own the USTA.
Go to the USTA corporate offices - there are no blacks in corner offices.
Same with Chase Bank. Serena and Katrina are tokens for large white entities.
It is sad that they are used as token fronts for corporate interests and play along with it unblindingly.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
So are you proposing radical action to get rid of what you see as 'white power' in corporate America or are you just searching for a stick to beat the USTA with?
fhdowntheline
Semi-Pro
Not sure about Katrina, but Serena seems to be fully aware of her social power index and utilising it effectively.
disgruntledamsel
Professional
Back to the ump issue....
A strange characterization of the umps’s job is getting a lot of airplay: “the chair should not insert themselves into the match.” What are people talking about with this phrase? What’s the corollary, to not insert yourself into the match? To sit idly by, while chaos ensues? Then why are they there? It’s akin to saying “hey chair, remember your station” “you are there to be seen and not heard; it’s not about you.” How is this a defensible position? The sole reason they are there is in fact to insert themselves in the match when rules are broken. They are there to enforce the rules of the game and keep it moving - good, bad, or otherwise.
I get why the chairs want to boycott. I think it’s that catch phrase alone, because it’s loaded: it’s code for the chair stole the match from Serena (by inserting himself in the match.). By saying don’t insert yourself into the match, you are implying that the ump is a step down from the players. Whether that’s what the critics meant or not - (and I suspect what they really meant at the time was you shouldn’t have messed with America’s GOATMA in a final slam) it’s disrespectful and demeaning to their job and implies that their duties and responsibilities should take a backseat to “the big moment” or in laymen’s terms, the gravity of the entertainment because they want to see the players play - no matter the rules. This type of mob mentality conflicts with the chair’s duty and obligation to hold order. Often, the commentators seem to endorse this nonsense. It’s absolutely self serving to hear someone say, “just let them play the match” with no care as to what rules are being adhered to or broken. (See P. Mac - must he always dismiss the ump because of his undisciplined past?). Another infuriator - Yeah, Mac, you were the one complaining earlier in a men’s match about the chair calling a time violation on a game point despite the shotclock vibrating at zero like a subwoofer for how long?
Tennis needs to regroup.
A strange characterization of the umps’s job is getting a lot of airplay: “the chair should not insert themselves into the match.” What are people talking about with this phrase? What’s the corollary, to not insert yourself into the match? To sit idly by, while chaos ensues? Then why are they there? It’s akin to saying “hey chair, remember your station” “you are there to be seen and not heard; it’s not about you.” How is this a defensible position? The sole reason they are there is in fact to insert themselves in the match when rules are broken. They are there to enforce the rules of the game and keep it moving - good, bad, or otherwise.
I get why the chairs want to boycott. I think it’s that catch phrase alone, because it’s loaded: it’s code for the chair stole the match from Serena (by inserting himself in the match.). By saying don’t insert yourself into the match, you are implying that the ump is a step down from the players. Whether that’s what the critics meant or not - (and I suspect what they really meant at the time was you shouldn’t have messed with America’s GOATMA in a final slam) it’s disrespectful and demeaning to their job and implies that their duties and responsibilities should take a backseat to “the big moment” or in laymen’s terms, the gravity of the entertainment because they want to see the players play - no matter the rules. This type of mob mentality conflicts with the chair’s duty and obligation to hold order. Often, the commentators seem to endorse this nonsense. It’s absolutely self serving to hear someone say, “just let them play the match” with no care as to what rules are being adhered to or broken. (See P. Mac - must he always dismiss the ump because of his undisciplined past?). Another infuriator - Yeah, Mac, you were the one complaining earlier in a men’s match about the chair calling a time violation on a game point despite the shotclock vibrating at zero like a subwoofer for how long?
Tennis needs to regroup.
JoelDali
Talk Tennis Guru
No. I just get ill when I see obvious minority puppetry in media spotlights, marketing and in corporate America where I have lived for decades. It’s disingenuous to humanity to use minorities as pure token puppets.
The board of directors of chase bank do not give a flying fuch for civil rights. That’s why using the LL Cool J track in that commercial just adds to the pure disgust of pure puppetry.
I’m so glad she lost though.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
The only way Serena would know what his signalling means is if they discussed it prior, so Serena did "ask for it".
BTW, that is not the main question as far as the application of the rule is concerned.
That is a somewhat important question in trying to find out what exactly she knows about that coaching, which would establish also whether she said the truth or she lied.
Ramos didn't have to do anything of the sort.
The players know what the rule is, so he needs not explain why she receives a warning.
You think that that scenario would have produced better results, but I have to ask why.
Did PM continue to coach Serena, and if not, what is the difference between him being presented and not coaching and being out of the stadium and not coaching?
Explain it to me.
gut wax
Hall of Fame
ITF says . . .
The ITF has released the following statement relating to umpiring decisions during the 2018 US Open Women’s final:
“Carlos Ramos is one of the most experienced and respected umpires in tennis. Mr. Ramos’ decisions were in accordance with the relevant rules and were re-affirmed by the US Open’s decision to fine Serena Williams for the three offences.”
“It is understandable that this high profile and regrettable incident should provoke debate. At the same time, it is important to remember that Mr. Ramos undertook his duties as an official according to the relevant rule book and acted at all times with professionalism and integrity.”
The Grand Slam Rule Book can be found here. Player on site offences including the point penalty schedule used in this instance can be found in Article III.
Read more at https://www.itftennis.com/news/291172.aspx#jjo0g2bsqg5y3D9b.99
"That is not the point. I am superior to all posters on the forum, that is the main thing." - sureshs
The ITF has released the following statement relating to umpiring decisions during the 2018 US Open Women’s final:
“Carlos Ramos is one of the most experienced and respected umpires in tennis. Mr. Ramos’ decisions were in accordance with the relevant rules and were re-affirmed by the US Open’s decision to fine Serena Williams for the three offences.”
“It is understandable that this high profile and regrettable incident should provoke debate. At the same time, it is important to remember that Mr. Ramos undertook his duties as an official according to the relevant rule book and acted at all times with professionalism and integrity.”
The Grand Slam Rule Book can be found here. Player on site offences including the point penalty schedule used in this instance can be found in Article III.
Read more at https://www.itftennis.com/news/291172.aspx#jjo0g2bsqg5y3D9b.99
"That is not the point. I am superior to all posters on the forum, that is the main thing." - sureshs
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
So you are just criticising corporate hypocrisy as a convenient stick to beat Williams, or otherwise you'd want some real action!
No. I just get ill when I see obvious minority puppetry in media spotlights, marketing and in corporate America where I have lived for decades. It’s disingenuous to humanity to use minorities as pure token puppets.
The board of directors of chase bank do not give a flying fuch for civil rights. That’s why using the LL Cool J track in that commercial just adds to the pure disgust of pure puppetry.
I’m so glad she lost though.
mellowyellow
Legend
Living with blinders on...No. I just get ill when I see obvious minority puppetry in media spotlights, marketing and in corporate America where I have lived for decades. It’s disingenuous to humanity to use minorities as pure token puppets.
The board of directors of chase bank do not give a flying fuch for civil rights. That’s why using the LL Cool J track in that commercial just adds to the pure disgust of pure puppetry.
I’m so glad she lost though.
celito
Professional
Not a big deal for him as he is retiring after this season anyways.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
It is very simple and you answered your own question: they are there to ensure that the rules are not broken.
Maybe what needs to be added to that, considering the modern realities: "in a way that allows for a competitive edge of one of the players over the other to be created"
Ideally they should try to keep the match within the rules, but if for some reason that is not possible, then they should make sure that the rules are overstepped in a way that doesn’t hurt one of the players more.
Unfortunately, even that is not always enforced as a principle.
Not inserting themselves in the match means just that they should not allow personal views, bias etc to influence the way they apply the rules, which in other words sounds like that they should remain professional at all times.
Rattler
Hall of Fame
Switzerland....I know other countries don’t use roving umpires at qualies for Futures and only use a solo chair umpire calling all the lines until the Semis or Finals and then only a far side line umpire.
In the United States Futures events, there are roving umpires for Qualies, until the final round then it’s a Chair and 2 sideline umpires wither the chair calling serves and baselines.
In the Finals it is a chair and 5 line umpires.
Mr.Lob
G.O.A.T.
Man, and I thought I had it bad when chipping teeth while eating raw spaghetti... and peanuts (think a shell was in there). Co-worker was eating a Sugar Daddy once, came out of the office with her crown pulled out and stuck into the side of a Sugar Daddy she had bitten into.
Well, keep smiling.
mikespinstowin
Rookie
VAMOS RAMOS....I want this shirt to wear at a Serena match
netlets
Professional
Here is an even simpler one: make sure the player knows they are reprimanding the coach for their actions, not the player. It boggles my mind that Serena didn't know this.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
The player got the penalty presumably because the rules assume the coach is a mere agent of the player, so reprimanding a coach amounts to an accusation of cheating against the player.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Vamos Ramos. The rhyme is good.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Would be brilliant. A thousand people in the stands wearing that shirt, being called sexist and racist.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Serena knows this.
It is her knowledge that she plays part in it and couldn't switch fast enough to a different wavelength than to attack to not be accused that made her hysterical.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Calling a woman 'hysterical' in this context is hysterical!
Serena knows this.
It is her knowledge that she plays part in it and couldn't switch fast enough to a different wavelength than to attack to not be accused that made her hysterical.
Deon Sanders
Legend
I hope they follow through
Make it so Serena is effectively banned from the sport as she should have been 20 years ago
Make it so Serena is effectively banned from the sport as she should have been 20 years ago
Yoneyama
Hall of Fame
Your incessant need to defend Serena Williams at all costs no matter what is hysterical.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
I am calling Serena's reaction hysterical, and it was.
Your efforts are also hysterical, but that is not their main feature so, instead, I will just say that they are hilarious.
vandre
Hall of Fame
