Update on my Game!

[Richboi]

Hey guys! I have posted some videos for the past couple of months and have received a bunch of feedback which I tried to implement into my game. Basically I have gotten lower on my groundies and also brought more intensity during my practices. (Also needed to shed some weight as i was told) lol. I was fixing my technique a while back and just started to slack off on putting more work while I’m on that court. The first vid is New and how I’m hitting now and the second is the old one just for you guys to compare a bit.


Try to skim through the first few minutes as I start off a bit slow and relaxed. I go for more towards the last 3 minutes of the vid.

EDIT: the girl is a 4.5 doubles player and the guy in the second vid is also 4.5 I believe

let me know what you guys think!

 

[FiReFTW]

Very nice looking forehand.

 

[Kobble]

Forehand and backhand look pretty solid. I think the forehand preparation might be more consistent, and mechanics look more repeatable from stroke to stroke. I would need to really slow it down to see more. Maybe later.

 

[hurworld]

Love the (non-stop) footwork. I would LOVE to be able to do that.

The approach at ~7:20 gets a special shout out from me.

 

[Richboi]

Forehand and backhand look pretty solid. I think the forehand preparation might be more consistent, and mechanics look more repeatable from stroke to stroke. I would need to really slow it down to see more. Maybe later.

My forehand is definitely more dependable. I have been working on the backhand lately — figuring it out more each time I step on court. The main problem is I can’t seem to get the consistent contact point on it (my footwork gets lost very often). I guess I just need more reps on that side.

 

[Richboi]

Love the (non-stop) footwork. I would LOVE to be able to do that.

The approach at ~7:20 gets a special shout out from me.

Thank you! I have been told that I don’t move enough haha.

I’m curios, Why would you pick that approach out of the rest?

 

[ptuanminh]

Great forehand.
About your BH, see how you prep so early on your FH wing??? Do the same for your BH.

 

[Wise one]

Hey guys! I have posted some videos for the past couple of months and have received a bunch of feedback which I tried to implement into my game. Basically I have gotten lower on my groundies and also brought more intensity during my practices. (Also needed to shed some weight as i was told) lol. I was fixing my technique a while back and just started to slack off on putting more work while I’m on that court. The first vid is New and how I’m hitting now and the second is the old one just for you guys to compare a bit.


Try to skim through the first few minutes as I start off a bit slow and relaxed. I go for more towards the last 3 minutes of the vid.

EDIT: the girl is a 4.5 doubles player and the guy in the second vid is also 4.5 I believe

let me know what you guys think!

At 7:19 you hit a cross-court topspin approach shot, and got passed. NEVER hit cross-court topspin approach shots! Hit slice down the line!

 

[ptuanminh]

At 7:19 you hit a cross-court topspin approach shot, and got passed. NEVER hit cross-court topspin approach shots! Hit slice down the line!

You understand that he is doing cc drill right????

 

[Wise one]

You understand that he is doing cc drill right????

No, and if so, why did she pass him?

 

[Richboi]

No, and if so, why did she pass him?

Yes it is a cc drill. She didn’t mean to hit it there. She just made late contact.

 

[Richboi]

At 7:19 you hit a cross-court topspin approach shot, and got passed. NEVER hit cross-court topspin approach shots! Hit slice down the line!

I wouldn’t say NEVER. It’s all about moving your opponent and setting up the point.

 

[Richboi]

Great forehand.
About your BH, see how you prep so early on your FH wing??? Do the same for your BH.

I try different preparation times. Im just not consistent on finding the right timing and contact I’m getting the hang of it now though. I think it’s mainly my confidence.

 

[ByeByePoly]

@Richboi ... great hitting. Got to give a shot out to 4.5 gal ... also good hitting.

 

[Kobble]

My forehand is definitely more dependable. I have been working on the backhand lately — figuring it out more each time I step on court. The main problem is I can’t seem to get the consistent contact point on it (my footwork gets lost very often). I guess I just need more reps on that side.

I looked at it a bit more. The forehand looks more fluid more often. Just a consistently better overall kinetic chain, better position and timing from the ground up. Maybe trying to get lower and more intense improved your overall footwork and timing.

As for your backhand, there are some things you can do to as far as the swing to make it stronger, but that really doesn't do much for you if you are not in good position. When I was first taking tennis more serious, my hiting partner would get frustrated. he couldn't understand how I could hit at certain level, but then start missing easy balls, or whatever. Basically, I found I was just having problems judging the ball. I remember my stringer, who coaches, was talking about pros vs. rec. After throwing out a few things, he said, well the pros just see the ball better anyway. I would say a majority of my mishits are misjudging the ball and bad positioning. For pros to copy, I would check out Agassi, Safin, Djokovic Nalbandian, Malisse and Vince Spadea. All those guys had weapons backhands. I know some might say Spadea wasn't a damaging as the rest, but I never really saw anyone hit through Spadea's backhand.

 

[heninfan99]

let me know what you guys think!

Looks great as usual. What is your grip structure on the backhand? Looks a little funky but can't really see it well.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Forehand Separation Angle. There have been many posts discussing separation. Imagine a line between the two shoulders. Imagine a line between the two hips. In general, the line between the shoulders should rotate back farther than the line between the two hips. Imaging viewing these lines from above and the angle that they would form. The line between the shoulders should turn back farther than the line between the hips. In the forward stroke, the hips line should lead the shoulders line. Djokovic is very flexible and shows separation and its timing more than most ATP players.

Note that the hips rotate plus the trunk twists above the hips. Both these turn the uppermost body.

Look at the white lines on your shorts at the waist. Look at your hitting shoulder above it. They seem to move together, not much separation. Compare to the turn back and forward separation angle vs time of Djokovic.

Separation and its timing on the forehand.

Separation adds more trunk twist by increasing the angle for the trunk rotation and stretching muscles. Twisting your trunk/spine may be too stressful for your spine. Djokovic has more flexibility than most ATP player.

 

[Kobble]

Looks great as usual. What is your grip structure on the backhand? Looks a little funky but can't really see it well.

Doesn't it look like semi-western for both?

 

[hurworld]

Thank you! I have been told that I don’t move enough haha.

I’m curios, Why would you pick that approach out of the rest?

Haha purely because I did not watch all of it. I skipped ahead a few minutes, watch some, then skip some again. That approach happened to fall into what I watched. I'll watch more when I have more time at home.

That approach has the front foot skipping step that I'm trying to do too to varying degree of success. I guess it comes naturally once you have more practices on it?

 

[heninfan99]

Doesn't it look like semi-western for both?

could be, most of his backhands are just off camera it seems

 

[Richboi]

Haha purely because I did not watch all of it. I skipped ahead a few minutes, watch some, then skip some again. That approach happened to fall into what I watched. I'll watch more when I have more time at home.

That approach has the front foot skipping step that I'm trying to do too to varying degree of success. I guess it comes naturally once you have more practices on it?

Yup! It just happens naturally now. I try not to think too much when making adjustments. Just let it happen naturally bc hesitating is not a good thing haha

 

[Richboi]

could be, most of his backhands are just off camera it seems

Yeah it’s semi-western for both. Just this past week I was adjusting my backhand a bit. I shifted it slightly more to the Eastern side and I felt a lot more connected to the ball. A subtle adjustment that will change my entire game. Man, I love how complicated tennis is sometimes

 

[Richboi]

Forehand Separation Angle. There have been many posts discussing separation. Imagine a line between the two shoulders. Imagine a line between the two hips. In general, the line between the shoulders should rotate back farther than the line between the two hips. Imaging viewing these lines from above and the angle that they would form. The line between the shoulders should turn back farther than the line between the hips. In the forward stroke, the hips line should lead the shoulders line. Djokovic is very flexible and shows separation and its timing more than most ATP players.

Note that the hips rotate plus the trunk twists above the hips. Both these turn the uppermost body.

Look at the white lines on your shorts at the waist. Look at your hitting shoulder above it. They seem to move together, not much separation. Compare to the turn back and forward separation angle vs time of Djokovic.

Separation and its timing on the forehand.

Separation adds more trunk twist by increasing the angle for the trunk rotation and stretching muscles. Twisting your trunk/spine may be too stressful for your spine. Djokovic has more flexibility than most ATP player.

Noted. I actually really believe in this separation concept because it helps a lot with early preparation and maintaining balance. Ofcourse sometimes you have to make adjustment steps so this separation differs from time to time but I think it definitely Is an improvement to anyone’s game. That’s why offcourt training — improving fitness and flexibility is important because you increase your potential do these types of stuff.

 

[heninfan99]

Yeah it’s semi-western for both. Just this past week I was adjusting my backhand a bit. I shifted it slightly more to the Eastern side and I felt a lot more connected to the ball. A subtle adjustment that will change my entire game. Man, I love how complicated tennis is sometimes

As you probably know Venus uses double Eastern which is weird but good enough to win slams with ....I just wonder if yours would be better if you slid your bottom hand to continental and leave the top hand as is. I made this change it's so much easier to swing through the ball.

 

[ByeByePoly]

As you probably know Venus uses double Eastern which is weird but good enough to win slams with ....I just wonder if yours would be better if you slid your bottom hand to continental and leave the top hand as is.

cont/east, bent/straight, moderate loop ...

Unless you want to take everything Rios early ... no loopy.

 

[heninfan99]

cont/east, bent/straight, moderate loop ...

Unless you want to take everything Rios early ... no loopy.

Is Djoker Eastern on top or SW? Time for a @JohnYandell link.

 

[ByeByePoly]

Is Djoker Eastern on top or SW? Time for a John Yandell link.

Cont/east if following is accurate:

https://www.optimumtennis.net/novak-djokovic-backhand.htm

"
Novak Djokovic Backhand: Preparation and Unit Turn
The Djokovic backhand begins with the proper grip. He holds the racket with a continental right hand grip and an eastern left-handed forehand grip. "

 

[ByeByePoly]

Yeah it’s semi-western for both. Just this past week I was adjusting my backhand a bit. I shifted it slightly more to the Eastern side and I felt a lot more connected to the ball. A subtle adjustment that will change my entire game. Man, I love how complicated tennis is sometimes

 

[ByeByePoly]

Yeah it’s semi-western for both. Just this past week I was adjusting my backhand a bit. I shifted it slightly more to the Eastern side and I felt a lot more connected to the ball. A subtle adjustment that will change my entire game. Man, I love how complicated tennis is sometimes

You mean sw for left hand right. What is your right hand grip ... looks continental. What I have found is as long as I'm still holding right hand (I am right handed) ... changing left hand from east to sw is a minor tweak. But if I change dom hand from cont ... say eastern .... MAJOR change. I think we set our racquet face on 2hbh mainly with dom hand .. and then both hands work together in stroke. My brief experimenting with left hand sw didn't see any significant aid in topspin, and I prefer left hand eastern for driving ball, so for me cont/eastern is the way to go.

 

[ByeByePoly]

As you probably know Venus uses double Eastern which is weird but good enough to win slams with ....I just wonder if yours would be better if you slid your bottom hand to continental and leave the top hand as is. I made this change it's so much easier to swing through the ball.

I don't think winning slams is a good enough reason to look like Venus on a 2hbh

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Hey guys! I have posted some videos for the past couple of months and have received a bunch of feedback which I tried to implement into my game. Basically I have gotten lower on my groundies and also brought more intensity during my practices. (Also needed to shed some weight as i was told) lol. I was fixing my technique a while back and just started to slack off on putting more work while I’m on that court. The first vid is New and how I’m hitting now and the second is the old one just for you guys to compare a bit.


Try to skim through the first few minutes as I start off a bit slow and relaxed. I go for more towards the last 3 minutes of the vid.

EDIT: the girl is a 4.5 doubles player and the guy in the second vid is also 4.5 I believe

let me know what you guys think!

That's a very nice FH: smooth, using the kinetic chain, reproducible under various conditions. I also noticed you kept your eyes locked on the contact point even after the ball had left your strings.

In the first video at 1:42, I noticed that you don't get as much rotation with your BH as with your FH.

On your FH, your chest is pointing towards the side prior to contact and mostly towards the net at contact. But on your BH, you were pointing to the side prior to contact and moved only about 45-60 degrees at contact.

Well done on the hitting!

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

At 7:19 you hit a cross-court topspin approach shot, and got passed. NEVER hit cross-court topspin approach shots! Hit slice down the line!

That's too dogmatic for me. If I took my opponent out wide and he hits DTL, going CC makes a lot of sense.

Whether I hit slice or TS is also situation-dependent: if I'm trying to stretch him out, TS is better. If he's already in position and I'm going to approach anyway, I prefer slice.

 

[ByeByePoly]

That's too dogmatic for me. If I took my opponent out wide and he hits DTL, going CC makes a lot of sense.

Whether I hit slice or TS is also situation-dependent: if I'm trying to stretch him out, TS is better. If he's already in position and I'm going to approach anyway, I prefer slice.

Too dogmatic and too boring. Hit sharp cc to someone's FH, and approach with slice cc ALL DAY LONG. I am generally a approach dtl ... but that is a standard play to open up the backhand on someone that is good at hiding their bh (maybe good at running around).

 

[ByeByePoly]

That's a very nice FH: smooth, using the kinetic chain, reproducible under various conditions. I also noticed you kept your eyes locked on the contact point even after the ball had left your strings.

In the first video at 1:42, I noticed that you don't get as much rotation with your BH as with your FH.

On your FH, your chest is pointing towards the side prior to contact and mostly towards the net at contact. But on your BH, you were pointing to the side prior to contact and moved only about 45-60 degrees at contact.

Well done on the hitting!

Not following you on the 2hbh contact position ... we are suppose to end up "left net postish" ... maybe a little more sideline for dtl. ???

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Not following you on the 2hbh contact position ... we are suppose to end up "left net postish" ... maybe a little more sideline for dtl. ???

I was thinking he might get more rotation and therefore more power from his BH if he rotated more for the CC shots [although it's hard to tell on the ones I was watching where exactly he was aiming].

 

[ByeByePoly]

I was thinking he might get more rotation and therefore more power from his BH if he rotated more for the CC shots [although it's hard to tell on the ones I was watching where exactly he was aiming].

My video review of atp 2hbh and 1hbh seemed to show "left net post...ish" was the norm, even cc.

First Djoker 2hbh in video below was closed stance cc ... and at contact left net post. At 00:30 ... semi open cc ... still left net post. Another check would be fully open ... maybe 2hbh ros.

Note: you have to advance frames and freeze at contact, because it happens so fast looks like chest toward net at contact real-time.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I was thinking he might get more rotation and therefore more power from his BH if he rotated more for the CC shots [although it's hard to tell on the ones I was watching where exactly he was aiming].

2hbh power/pace:

I am starting to see occasional 2hbh pace that brings a smile to my face. I have never hit big pace on any groundstroke ... although I have made decent progress with fh as a senior (go figure). But when everything clicks just right on 2hbh, I would at least call it semi-big pace . I am talking fairly flat drives.

Here are the elements that are required for me ... pretty much in order:

- my max unit turn, show some back to the net, feel the stretch behind right shoulder and in back
- as always, 2hbh has to be relaxed from unit turn through follow through
- closed stance ... I hit a lot more semi open stance 2hbhs now then when I started with 2hbh, and my game is better for it. BUT ... for my max 2hbh ... closed stance
- timing of jumping on swing with left arm is critical. Since closed, drop/loop happens while stepping, and left arm fired with full weight on right leg ... fire too early ... weak tea, too late ... weak tea
- snapping wrists ... both hands working together to really snap the racquet lag to contact. I know ... active relaxed hands ... we are suppose to be passive. Don't shoot the messenger ... just saying what brings out the screamer 2hbh for me. One other thing ... I always though the lag and racquet head drop was only for topspin. I saw what the pros were doing early (Nishikori extreme example) and said ... no ... I have bigger issues to become low 2hbh UE. Which was true ... but I have now revisited and added it. 2hbh lag is not just for topspin, easy pace booster timed correctly. Not saying it's a wise choice for a rec player ... Hewitt was pretty good without 2hbh lag.

Now ... if they would just go in.

 

[pencilcheck]

@Richboi where are you from? Just curious. I'm in SF if nearby let's hit!

I am practicing both 2hbh and 1hbh, the principle is similar. I believe depends on how you usually grip your backhand, I'm a lefty so I need to mirror my grip to fit yours.

To have a steady contact and pace, based on what I saw so far and my experience, maybe you are already doing all of the points below
1. make sure you don't grip it loosely, grip it so both of your palms feels your racquet handles feels most of your palm.
2. make sure you move forward when swinging, not moving backwards
3. you have chicken wing when you swing your backhand, that means you are not griping it tight or maybe another word is "optimally", therefore you don't feel the need to straighten up your arm when you hit. Straightening up will also be natural if you grip it optimally. This helps with plowthrough and consistency.

Hope it helps.

 

[Richboi]

2hbh power/pace:

I am starting to see occasional 2hbh pace that brings a smile to my face. I have never hit big pace on any groundstroke ... although I have made decent progress with fh as a senior (go figure). But when everything clicks just right on 2hbh, I would at least call it semi-big pace . I am talking fairly flat drives.

Here are the elements that are required for me ... pretty much in order:

- my max unit turn, show some back to the net, feel the stretch behind right shoulder and in back
- as always, 2hbh has to be relaxed from unit turn through follow through
- closed stance ... I hit a lot more semi open stance 2hbhs now then when I started with 2hbh, and my game is better for it. BUT ... for my max 2hbh ... closed stance
- timing of jumping on swing with left arm is critical. Since closed, drop/loop happens while stepping, and left arm fired with full weight on right leg ... fire too early ... weak tea, too late ... weak tea
- snapping wrists ... both hands working together to really snap the racquet lag to contact. I know ... active relaxed hands ... we are suppose to be passive. Don't shoot the messenger ... just saying what brings out the screamer 2hbh for me. One other thing ... I always though the lag and racquet head drop was only for topspin. I saw what the pros were doing early (Nishikori extreme example) and said ... no ... I have bigger issues to become low 2hbh UE. Which was true ... but I have now revisited and added it. 2hbh lag is not just for topspin, easy pace booster timed correctly. Not saying it's a wise choice for a rec player ... Hewitt was pretty good without 2hbh lag.

Now ... if they would just go in.

I need to take note of those elements haha. The thing I struggle with the most though, is the close stance. During point play specifically, I always forget how important it is to step in and close the hips and then opening it afterwards during the follow through. It’s really annoying for me. I always tend to lose the face of the racquet also. The angle of the racquet when I make contact is very inconsistent and I haven’t fixed that issue.

 

[Richboi]

@Richboi where are you from? Just curious. I'm in SF if nearby let's hit!

I am practicing both 2hbh and 1hbh, the principle is similar. I believe depends on how you usually grip your backhand, I'm a lefty so I need to mirror my grip to fit yours.

To have a steady contact and pace, based on what I saw so far and my experience, maybe you are already doing all of the points below
1. make sure you don't grip it loosely, grip it so both of your palms feels your racquet handles feels most of your palm.
2. make sure you move forward when swinging, not moving backwards
3. you have chicken wing when you swing your backhand, that means you are not griping it tight or maybe another word is "optimally", therefore you don't feel the need to straighten up your arm when you hit. Straightening up will also be natural if you grip it optimally. This helps with plowthrough and consistency.

Hope it helps.

Hey! I apologize for the late reply. I’m in NY unfortunately but I will definitely keep you in mind if I come to SF. If only i knew earlier, I went there a couple of months ago.

I don’t quite get your point on gripping it tighter. Does gripping the racquet too loose really cause me to chicken wing it?

 

[ChaelAZ]

Hey guys! I have posted some videos for the past couple of months and have received a bunch of feedback which I tried to implement into my game. Basically I have gotten lower on my groundies and also brought more intensity during my practices. (Also needed to shed some weight as i was told) lol. I was fixing my technique a while back and just started to slack off on putting more work while I’m on that court. The first vid is New and how I’m hitting now and the second is the old one just for you guys to compare a bit.


Try to skim through the first few minutes as I start off a bit slow and relaxed. I go for more towards the last 3 minutes of the vid.

EDIT: the girl is a 4.5 doubles player and the guy in the second vid is also 4.5 I believe

let me know what you guys think!

A lot less 'sorrys' this time around. Fine work young man.

 

[ByeByePoly]

I need to take note of those elements haha. The thing I struggle with the most though, is the close stance. During point play specifically, I always forget how important it is to step in and close the hips and then opening it afterwards during the follow through. It’s really annoying for me. I always tend to lose the face of the racquet also. The angle of the racquet when I make contact is very inconsistent and I haven’t fixed that issue.

Doesn't matter now ... you are on the way to that Fed 1hbh.

I went the other direction than you ... lifetime 1hbh to this 2hbh crazy project. I spent the entire first summer hitting closed 2hbh ... not one open I don't think. It wasn't a conscious thought/plan. I hit almost all 1hbh closed ... open was too weak. The first time I knew I was hitting all closed 2hbh was when I posted an early video ... someone asked why all closed. LOL ... good question actually. Now ... it seems the semi open is the easiest to time if you get any decent pace from opponent. I will put it this way ... if I needed to hit the tightest pattern near the orange cone ... I would hit the semi open. On the closed, it just feels like a relaxed land and spin on/around front leg. More timing ... but also feels more effortless for pace when the timing is right. It is weird after all these years to have a immature stroke that can just go off. You think you are in a groove ... actually you are ... and out of nowhere pops some weak thing that barely reaches the net. WTF was that? I got a good laugh when I saw it happen to a couple of pros on tv ... figure it's just a 2hbh feature.

fyi ... your 1hbh looked good to me. I still hit a lot of 1hbh slice, but pretty much switched now to 2hbh for drive. I keep saying I intended to keep the flat 1hbh dtl drive (that was my go to passing shot in tournaments) ... but pretty much bagged it at this point.

 

[ByeByePoly]

A lot less 'sorrys' this time around. Fine work young man.

That fh is smooth as silk ... you should try and never hit a bh in your entire tennis career.

 

[J011yroger]

Tell Jenny I said hi.

J

 

[pencilcheck]

Hey! I apologize for the late reply. I’m in NY unfortunately but I will definitely keep you in mind if I come to SF. If only i knew earlier, I went there a couple of months ago.

I don’t quite get your point on gripping it tighter. Does gripping the racquet too loose really cause me to chicken wing it?

No problem just holler me when you are around, I don't check tennis warehouse often but if I see a message I will definitely respond to it asap. But if you let me know roughly what time you are around that would be easier to plan things out.

Regarding the chicken wing problem, what I meant was unnatural grip, that causes you to have weird arm positions that prevented you from hitting smoothly across. And I thought the easier way to convey that idea to you was to use the checkpoint of "gripping tight".

What I meant was this, when you are doing 2hbh, the biggest thing you need to remember is that you need to grip it in a way that feels comfortable for you to have at least one of your arm straight without feeling jammed. If you gripped it where both of your arm feel jammed then it is not the right grip, it will not help with your backswing at all.

Try many different grips, here are some videos talking about it:

 

[Richboi]

Doesn't matter now ... you are on the way to that Fed 1hbh.

I went the other direction than you ... lifetime 1hbh to this 2hbh crazy project. I spent the entire first summer hitting closed 2hbh ... not one open I don't think. It wasn't a conscious thought/plan. I hit almost all 1hbh closed ... open was too weak. The first time I knew I was hitting all closed 2hbh was when I posted an early video ... someone asked why all closed. LOL ... good question actually. Now ... it seems the semi open is the easiest to time if you get any decent pace from opponent. I will put it this way ... if I needed to hit the tightest pattern near the orange cone ... I would hit the semi open. On the closed, it just feels like a relaxed land and spin on/around front leg. More timing ... but also feels more effortless for pace when the timing is right. It is weird after all these years to have a immature stroke that can just go off. You think you are in a groove ... actually you are ... and out of nowhere pops some weak thing that barely reaches the net. WTF was that? I got a good laugh when I saw it happen to a couple of pros on tv ... figure it's just a 2hbh feature.

fyi ... your 1hbh looked good to me. I still hit a lot of 1hbh slice, but pretty much switched now to 2hbh for drive. I keep saying I intended to keep the flat 1hbh dtl drive (that was my go to passing shot in tournaments) ... but pretty much bagged it at this point.

you just described my 2hbh situation. haha. I would hit a couple of solid ones but then comes the weak one as you mentioned. I went back to my 2hbh today and it felt better after hittting the 1H the past couple of times

 

[ByeByePoly]

you just described my 2hbh situation. haha. I would hit a couple of solid ones but then comes the weak one as you mentioned. I went back to my 2hbh today and it felt better after hittting the 1H the past couple of times

It's whack ... we all hit bad shots, shank, mishit ... but this flutter to the net thing never happened with my other strokes. I did figure out it usually happens when my left (I am right handed) arm decides to take a nap on a stroke swinging into contact.