Upgrading a drop weight or buying a new electronic machine

[WNB93]

Hello,

I have a Pro's pro Hornet drop weight machine.
6 point mount, good clamps,...basically I'm satisfied with everything.
Works as advertised, no slippage etc after a year of use.
I can get a very accurate result from it, pretty consistent.

However, I have recently started stringing about 2 rackets a day (for a single person).
Although they're satisfied and happy with my job, I feel like an electronic machine would give me a more accurate and faster result.
I feel like the quality/speed ratio could improve. The more you rush with a drop weight, the accuracy drops.

So my question is (because I'm satisfied with the mount, clamps and everything)...should I upgrade the machine with a Wise (600eur) or should I go for something new like the TOMCAT MT-400 (1000eur incl. stand) or the Gamma Progression II Els (1500eur for a tabletop)? How accurate is the Wise compared to the other two?
What would you do?

I do have the money to spend but obviously, I'd rather save as much as I can.
(I do not string for any paying customers)

Cheers

 

[esgee48]

My question would be how long does it take to do 1 racquet vs 2 racquets? How much of the time is actual pulling tension vs pulling strings and weaving? There are perhaps technique issues which can make the string job go faster. For example if it takes you 90 seconds to weave a cross vs 20 seconds, you can improve alot right there.

To answer the other question, the WISE pulls just as accurately as your other cited eCPs. It may be noisier.

 

[WNB93]

My question would be how long does it take to do 1 racquet vs 2 racquets? How much of the time is actual pulling tension vs pulling strings and weaving? There are perhaps technique issues which can make the string job go faster. For example if it takes you 90 seconds to weave a cross vs 20 seconds, you can improve alot right there.

To answer the other question, the WISE pulls just as accurately as your other cited eCPs. It may be noisier.

Working on technique, of course. All but the last two weaves are very smooth and done in under 20 seconds, for sure! I am pretty sure I do most in under 10 seconds.
I will try my friends Star 5 this weekend, hopefully I'll get some answers there.

What I feel is holding me back most now is trying to level the crank. Then you pull too much and have to re-pull the string. But then you pre-stretched it so it's not the same as the others...
If I string for myself or my rec. player buddies, I don't care. But for a pro, I think it can make a difference.

Thanks for your input on the Wise! Noise shouldn't be an issue.

I am wondering how does the "round" thing on the Gamma compare to the diablo on the wise/Pros pro...?

 

[esgee48]

The linear gripper on the WISE or any machine is slightly faster. Lay the string between the plates, hit the button. Contrast with wrap the strring around the rotary mechanism and then thru the slot, hit the button. May save 2-3 seconds.

If you string polyesters or other stiff strings, start with the DW bar down* and lift it up. With stretchy strings like multifibres, start with the DW bar up. FWIW, pre stretch is not an issue with DW. You cannot pull more than what you set the weight at. What happens with multiple levelings is pulling staic stension losses out, but always at or less than what you set the weight at. With eCP, if you have prestretch on, you will pull too much multiple times. This is because there is always a section of string that is between the clamp and gripper that gets pulled again on the next pull. I turn pre stretch off on my machine.

* assume you have ratcheting mechanism

 

[tennisbike]

So my question is (because I'm satisfied with the mount, clamps and everything)...should I upgrade the machine with a Wise (600eur) or should I go for something new like the TOMCAT MT-400 (1000eur incl. stand) or the Gamma Progression II Els (1500eur for a tabletop)? How accurate is the Wise compared to the other two?
What would you do?

I am sure you will be able to answer that question yourself eventually. We each find our own answers in our own situations.

I might be at the same type of stringer you are, using a home FC drop-weight machine for my collection of rackets and some for the high school team I help coaching. I strung between 40 and 50 in a normal year. I also like doing wood work as a way to collect tools!! And I am cheap.

I would not invest in a lot of money to upgrade or buying a new stringer. If there is a Prince Neo 1000 popping up locally for pennies I would pick it up in hurry. Yes, I can afford 1K, but I am uncomfortable how my significant other would react to that act. So among the choices you have the Wise is the closest, or I would get, or an used ProStringer for cheap.

I am very content stringing SLOW. Low and slow is generally how I string, and I believe that also leads to long playability period and consistent string beds. Time is a luxury I have, since I do not break strings often with the number of sticks I play with.

 

[struggle]

The turntable is not exactly the best on the market.
Indians don't saddle a dead horse.
Upgrading only makes sense if it was already something good - unfortunately, that's not the case with your machine.
If possible, I would sell this machine and buy something (really) better.

The turntable is fine.

The Wise can always be moved to another machine at a later date. Or sold.

It's not a bad option at all.

 

[fritzhimself]

...............

 

[struggle]

Well - it's always a matter of opinion.
It can hardly get much worse - unless you're around the corner with a Klippermate.

You sound like Irvin most of the time. Cheers!

Amen!!

 

[Steve Huff]

Agree with Struggle. Wise is moveable to other machines. You may want to upgrade again in the future. Plus, if you're stringing 2 rackets/day without being paid, you may want to start stringing for others that do pay.

 

[fritzhimself]

...............

 

[struggle]

Should I take that as a compliment - or am I not allowed to express my own opinion here?

Take it as you may. Cheers!

Have you ever fondled said machine? Clearly you have. As such, what is the downfall with the turntable?

Amen.

 

[esm]

Would it be worthwhile to upgrade the clamp to gravity release clamp before the Wise, as (I believe) it’d be a cheaper upgrade first. Just a thought.

 

[struggle]

Would it be worthwhile to upgrade the clamp to gravity release clamp before the Wise, as (I believe) it’d be a cheaper upgrade first. Just a thought.

It appears to have "nice enough" base clamps (switch/quick action). Gravity release wouldn't be much of an improvement, if at all, in function. Just my opinion.

Gravity release clamps would cost almost as much as the WISE.

 

[Rabbit]

 

[fritzhimself]

.................

 

[struggle]

I had an eagnas with the same towers and similar turntable. They did not, at all, tilt inward. Zero, zilch, nada. They are made of hard metal.
If adjusted properly, they are fine.....and there is no comparison to a Kmate (in many aspects).

Sure it's no high end machine, but it is a perfectly serviceable machine and should work fine for many years, if cared for.

 

[esm]

@struggle @fritzhimself
Thanks for the gravity release info

 

[fritzhimself]

............

 

[struggle]

Sorry I have to disagree with you - we measured it with a big caliper - it was up to 5 mm.

Sounds like someone doesn't know how machinery works and how to properly adjust it, or maybe turn a wrench etc. They work just fine.

Those machines are not for the poodle types, to be sure, but they work just fine. I've owned one. Cheers!

Amen.

 

[hadoken]

If I were you I would upgrade to the Pros Pro MT300 tensions instead which is materially cheaper than a WISE. Your machine specifically can be upgraded to the MT300. I used to string on a dropweight...never again after using a WISE on my NEOS...but it's overkill for personal use. I looked into the MT300 which seems quite accurate with all modern features. It's not linear pull but again for personal use I think it's just fine

 

[struggle]

If I were you I would upgrade to the Pros Pro MT300 tensions instead which is materially cheaper than a WISE. Your machine specifically can be upgraded to the MT300. I used to string on a dropweight...never again after using a WISE on my NEOS...but it's overkill for personal use. I looked into the MT300 which seems quite accurate with all modern features. It's not linear pull but again for personal use I think it's just fine

Hey, it does have a linear griper, so i'd gather it is effectively "the same" in that regard,

 

[WNB93]

I did forget to mention that the two towers holding up the racket do tilt inwards. Well, one does. I have tried engineering a solution but so far I was unsuccessful.
Everything is tight, I put better bolts and washers in but to no avail. I will try to fit a big and thick washer between the tower and the turntable, maybe it'll prevent it from tipping over.
It seems there's just too much space between there.

 

[struggle]

I did forget to mention that the two towers holding up the racket do tilt inwards. Well, one does. I have tried engineering a solution but so far I was unsuccessful.
Everything is tight, I put better bolts and washers in but to no avail. I will try to fit a big and thick washer between the tower and the turntable, maybe it'll prevent it from tipping over.
It seems there's just too much space between there.

Many have added a washer, the metal itself is not flexing (the thin washers might be....). If the tolerances are incorrect, it can be corrected via such, or some slight grinding if it doesn't actually sit flat, likely in the area where it sits in the grove. Point being, if one is fine, there is a simple reason that the other isn't as well. It's true, these aren't made in a Ferrari factory, but with abit of elbow grease they can be made to work just fine. You must figure out the cause of the slop in the base of the tower. It shouldn't be too difficult to cipher.

Once the towers are fixed in the proper place, you really shouldn't ever need to move them except in very extreme cases. Situate them so that adjusting the billiards is all that needs to be done to adjust for different rackets (so, farther apart than seems natural, perhaps), It's really only the billiards and side supports that are holding the frame.

 

[WNB93]

Many have added a washer, the metal itself is not flexing (the thin washers might be....). If the tolerances are incorrect, it can be corrected via such, or some slight grinding if it doesn't actually sit flat, likely in the area where it sits in the grove. Point being, if one is fine, there is a simple reason that the other isn't as well. It's true, these aren't made in a Ferrari factory, but with abit of elbow grease they can be made to work just fine. You must figure out the cause of the slop in the base of the tower. It shouldn't be too difficult to cipher.

Once the towers are fixed in the proper place, you really shouldn't ever need to move them except in very extreme cases. Situate them so that adjusting the billiards is all that needs to be done to adjust for different rackets (so, farther apart than seems natural, perhaps), It's really only the billiards and side supports that are holding the frame.

Yeah, the metal does not seem to be flexing. The whole tower tilts.
I'll check it out when I'm back home in a few hours.

 

[struggle]

Yeah, the metal does not seem to be flexing. The whole tower tilts.
I'll check it out when I'm back home in a few hours.

I'd guess/bet that either the base of the tower is not perfectly flat, OR there is some "crud" (metal) on the bit of the base protrusion (in the corners) that fit into the groove. At any rate, it can be dealt with.

 

[WNB93]

I'd guess/bet that either the base of the tower is not perfectly flat, OR there is some "crud" (metal) on the bit of the base protrusion (in the corners) that fit into the groove. At any rate, it can be dealt with.

I'll unmount the tower and take some pictures if I can't figure it out!
Thank you for your advise!

P.S.: I see that there's literally 0 Gamma machines on stock anywhere. I guess the logistics problems are at work there as well. Too bad.

 

[struggle]

I'll unmount the tower and take some pictures if I can't figure it out!
Thank you for your advise!

P.S.: I see that there's literally 0 Gamma machines on stock anywhere. I guess the logistics problems are at work there as well. Too bad.

I'd contact Gamma directly if really interested. They are very helpful, espacially @Gamma Tech

 

[dak95_00]

Looks like a fine machine if you get that tilt issue fixed. I’d definitely just consider adding the Wise.

You’d have to spend a lot more money to get back to gravity release clamps with an electronic tension head with constant pull. If your racquet stringing tripled, then maybe look to upgrade further.

I know there are others who will argue but there’s easier ways to make money than stringing. The labor is never more than $20 around here and it’s just not worth the pain to make that money per hour or day. The fast guys will say that’s $60/hour but that’s not awesome money. It’s good money for a kid though.

 

[WNB93]

Looks like a fine machine if you get that tilt issue fixed. I’d definitely just consider adding the Wise.

You’d have to spend a lot more money to get back to gravity release clamps with an electronic tension head with constant pull. If your racquet stringing tripled, then maybe look to upgrade further.

I know there are others who will argue but there’s easier ways to make money than stringing. The labor is never more than $20 around here and it’s just not worth the pain to make that money per hour or day. The fast guys will say that’s $60/hour but that’s not awesome money. It’s good money for a kid though.

Thanks for your input!

I got a full time job, so there’s no need for the extra money. I just do it for fun.
The labor here is about 10$ for a string job so I’m definitely not changing careers.
I’ll get to the machine in a moment to try and fix the tilt. The thing is…it doesnt tilt no matter how hard you push. Once you mount the racket and pull tension, it does. Strange.

 

[dak95_00]

Thanks for your input!

I got a full time job, so there’s no need for the extra money. I just do it for fun.
The labor here is about 10$ for a string job so I’m definitely not changing careers.
I’ll get to the machine in a moment to try and fix the tilt. The thing is…it doesnt tilt no matter how hard you push. Once you mount the racket and pull tension, it does. Strange.

I have nearly the same setup as you but with the Wise. Mine doesn’t tilt. The Wise gives me consistency with my stringing.

I also just do it for fun. I string for others when it’s convenient. When it’s not, I just tell them to go somewhere else or wait for me to find the time. These cheapskates keep coming back to me because I do it quickly, accurately, and I don’t charge much.

 

[WNB93]

I have nearly the same setup as you but with the Wise. Mine doesn’t tilt. The Wise gives me consistency with my stringing.

I also just do it for fun. I string for others when it’s convenient. When it’s not, I just tell them to go somewhere else or wait for me to find the time. These cheapskates keep coming back to me because I do it quickly, accurately, and I don’t charge much.

Are you satisfied with it?
I put a washer under each tower so it did not tilt when I strung the two rackets now. So it holds! So I’m more and more inclined to upgrading.
i’ll try stringing on my friends Star 5 to see how much time I save. Then I’ll decide. I know stringing wont be as comfortable on an upgraded PP machine of course.

 

[dak95_00]

Are you satisfied with it?
I put a washer under each tower so it did not tilt when I strung the two rackets now. So it holds! So I’m more and more inclined to upgrading.
i’ll try stringing on my friends Star 5 to see how much time I save. Then I’ll decide. I know stringing wont be as comfortable on an upgraded PP machine of course.

It gets the job done. My perfect machine would be a 2 point mount like the Neos has with swivel clamps that are gravity release. I don’t like the arms getting in my way occasionally. I believe that would be the single biggest factor to speeding up my technique.

 

[WNB93]

It gets the job done. My perfect machine would be a 2 point mount like the Neos has with swivel clamps that are gravity release. I don’t like the arms getting in my way occasionally. I believe that would be the single biggest factor to speeding up my technique.

Ok, I feel you. But a two point mount doesn’t do such a good job at protecting the racket as a 6 point. The two rackets I strung yesterday, I did them in 33 mins both.
with the current setup I feel like I could get down to 30 if there are no string catching anywhere and if I got all the holes in the first try.

 

[struggle]

The two point Neos mount is proven (for decades), but i do prefer the modern 6-point as well.

I think they actually consider it a 4-point, but i'd still call basically 2.

 

[dak95_00]

Ok, I feel you. But a two point mount doesn’t do such a good job at protecting the racket as a 6 point. The two rackets I strung yesterday, I did them in 33 mins both.
with the current setup I feel like I could get down to 30 if there are no string catching anywhere and if I got all the holes in the first try.

Unfounded claims. People love repeating nonsense they hear over and over again. It’s no different than thinking the grass is greener on the other side. That’s why we’re here, right? There must be a better stringing machine that’s going to cure all of our problems.

The next unfounded claim and question will be “Why don’t manufacturers make high end 2 point machines?” That would require a basic understanding of manufacturing and the cost to produce them. The more that are made and sold, the more profit to be made. Since the unfounded claim has made it out there, it leaves the smaller companies in the stringing world to only produce one machine; Wilson, Babolat, Alpha, etc. What about the giant of the industry? That’s Gamma! They make and sell more machines and that’s why they can afford to manufacture both 6 and 2 point machines.

Proof:

Stringing Machines - Gamma Sports

Experience the best with GAMMA stringing machines, the #1 stringing brand with over 40 years of industry leading innovation, expertise and customer service. - Gamma Sports

www.gammasports.com

Why would they purposely make both if one was inferior? The simple answer is they wouldn’t. There must be a demand and it’s actually surprising the costs are the same.