Vegetarian Pros

[Sentinel]

Dalai stay in India now. He can very easily abandon meat altogether.

That's what I thought once for the Tibetan community which has moved to India. However, as i was saying elsewhere, few people actually follow a principle, they just follow whatever set of routines have been handed down to them by their people, and consider that to be following the "principle" or "faith" or ideology or whatever.

However, his logic surprises me. Millions of us vegetarians should be suffering from illnesses or jaundice.

 

[Sentinel]

That is probably very very rare now. It used to more common in the old days in Bengal and Asom. When I had visited Asom as a kid, A guy brought lambs on the bus for slaughter at a a temple. They are a relic of Tantric practices of the past.

Ten years back while traveling in the UP hills my hosts took me to some temple.

The first thing that appalled me was that women were not allowed inside. They had to stay in some outer area, and only peep into the inner sanctum from a distance. That did not bother the women.

Then i was told that once a week a goat or lamb is slaughtered. The pundits etc were non-vegetarians and ate it. They were sitting around the temple smoking.

I guess tradition is a good way of justifying just about anything.

 

[Crisstti]

Ten years back while traveling in the UP hills my hosts took me to some temple.

The first thing that appalled me was that women were not allowed inside. They had to stay in some outer area, and only peep into the inner sanctum from a distance. That did not bother the women.

Then i was told that once a week a goat or lamb is slaughtered. The pundits etc were non-vegetarians and ate it. They were sitting around the temple smoking.

I guess tradition is a good way of justifying just about anything.

"Just"?. Anything I'd say. :neutral:

 

[timnz]

Well, maybe several thousand years ago.

Not sure what you mean here. The world record for the 400 metre hurdles was set in 1992 at 46.78 seconds and hasn't been improved upon since. Edwin Moses best (9 years earlier) was less than 1/4 of a second slower than that. So in conclusion athletes haven't improved at all since then - at least in that discipline (FYI the mile record hasn't been improved on in 15 years).

 

[Sentinel]

I just remembered, my wife's uncle is vegetarian, yet he looks a bit fat.
Chinese noodles are fat, sauces in general are fat when it contains oil, milk if you don't go for fat free milk...the yolks of the egg...
also avocado is the only vegetable that is a bit fat.

Unfortunately, your sample size is very small -- one person -- so you can draw any conclusion with that. If he was violent, you could say vegetarians are violent etc.

India has millions of vegetarians, and due to the sedentary lifestyle and easy availability of junk food/deep fried food many of them (if not most) are overweight after 30 or 40.

Most Indians (regardless of vegetarian or not) are overweight after a certain age. Being a vegetarian is no silver bullet. Obesity, high blood pressure, diabetes, heart disease etc are hitting India in a big way.

 

[Sentinel]

Not sure what you mean here. The world record for the 400 metre hurdles was set in 1992 at 46.78 seconds and hasn't been improved upon since. Edwin Moses best (9 years earlier) was less than 1/4 of a second slower than that. So in conclusion athletes haven't improved at all since then - at least in that discipline (FYI the mile record hasn't been improved on in 15 years).

I tried to click back on Pike's post and figure out the thread of the discussion but could not make it out.

What was the point ? A single WR that has stood for long ... what does that prove ? I remember Bob Beamon's record, or the 200m record (I think Peitro Mennea) stood for a long time. One of Seb Coe's records also stood a long time (800m ?).

I am not sure but maybe the 400m H and Mile are not distances that are run too often, esp for WR attempts. I would try to go by the general improvement of the top five or ten every year, rather than one single person.

Anyway, what was your remark about ?

 

[Graf=GOAT]

Most religions don't.

It is OK for vegans to look down on others. Why not? Today, non-smokers look down on smokers, and it is considered good. Fit people look down on obese people, and that has also become acceptable. These are not equal both ways - we don't accept smokers looking down on non-smokers. And "moral" people have always looked down on others and even attempt to impose their morals on everyone else. So yeah people who think of themselves as socially and environmentally responsible will look down on others. It is cool.

Being overweight and smoking is bad for your health, not eating meat is just silly.

 

[Chanwan]

Being overweight and smoking is bad for your health, not eating meat is just silly (and very, very good for the planet).

I added something for you

 

[fatichar]

Damn one of the best meals ever, love the indian sauces that go with chicken and rice, not to mention the bread (nan, cheese nan, yummy!)

True, if you like spicy, fried food.

 

[timnz]

I tried to click back on Pike's post and figure out the thread of the discussion but could not make it out.

What was the point ? A single WR that has stood for long ... what does that prove ? I remember Bob Beamon's record, or the 200m record (I think Peitro Mennea) stood for a long time. One of Seb Coe's records also stood a long time (800m ?).

I am not sure but maybe the 400m H and Mile are not distances that are run too often, esp for WR attempts. I would try to go by the general improvement of the top five or ten every year, rather than one single person.

Anyway, what was your remark about ?

I was responding to the posters inference that Edwin Moses was 'thousands of years ago' - the inference being that athletes of a bygone era are nothing compared to current athletes. I was given the hard facts that Moses best was less than 1/4 second less that the current world record (a record that hasn't been improved upon for 22 years). This shows the lie about the myth that 'athletes now are so much better.....' etc etc.

 

[halalula1234]

Venus williams after her sjogen syndrome diagnosis...
appearantly she is on a mostly vegan diet....sometimes she cheats by going "chegan"

 

[tipsa...don'tlikehim!]

is any of you vegetarian and do sport 2 or 3 times a week, like work out or tennis or anything else?
if so please post some tips about what you eat? would be nice.

 

[Supertegwyn]

is any of you vegetarian and do sport 2 or 3 times a week, like work out or tennis or anything else?
if so please post some tips about what you eat? would be nice.

I've been vegetarian for about 10 months now and go to the gym 5x a week, plus tennis 3x a week and Martial arts once a week.

I mainly eat falafels, vegetable dishes, beans, lentils, potatoes, fake meats (Linda McCarthy patties etc.), rice, Curries (Vegetable korma), Soy products and others that I'm probably forgetting.

 

[Sentinel]

is any of you vegetarian and do sport 2 or 3 times a week, like work out or tennis or anything else?
if so please post some tips about what you eat? would be nice.

I am a vegetarian for 15 years. No meat, fish, eggs. But I do have yoghurt (In India, milk is consumed in a veg diet). I run 3x a week, and do gym 3x, so it's 6 days of working out. Five of them are tough/exhausting.

I have some lentils/pulses, yoghurt with nuts and raisins (post-workout), gluten-free millet bread and lots of veggies and some fruit.

 

[tipsa...don'tlikehim!]

thanx both
Sentinel I remember you are very skinny and you do run a lot
Superteg what is your weight? I am trying to gain weight and I used to be quite big and athletic 3 years ago but now I am getting skinnier. I have been vegetarian for only a month, so my weight is not related to that actually. I read that eating a lot of pasta can help keeping a good weight, so i will try to. I also eat a good quantity of oats with soy milk and banana in the morning.

 

[Beacon Hill]

is any of you vegetarian and do sport 2 or 3 times a week, like work out or tennis or anything else?
if so please post some tips about what you eat? would be nice.

For breakfast try a hot cereal of quinoa, pecans, pumpkin seeds, hemp seeds, and blueberries with vanilla almond milk - once you've tried it, you won't be able to start the day without it. Vegetable Thai curry (coconut milk-based sauce) with tofu is one of my favourite lunch or dinner meals. Lemon/garlic/tahini/sea salt mixture is good for anything from salad dressings to a sauce you add at the end after preparing your favourite vegetable and whatever protein stir fry. Lightly sweetened chocolate peanut butter coconut milk ice cream is an amazing rich dessert.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Novak's diet is arguably stricter, although not vegetarian.

You need meat to be a top athlete I'd presume.
We've evolved to eat it after all.

 

[Sentinel]

Lightly sweetened chocolate peanut butter coconut milk ice cream is an amazing rich dessert.

Wow !!! Everything that is dear to me in one bowl !!!!
Awesome !! I'd throw some chopped walnuts over it and maybe a lashing of chocolate fudge.

 

[Sentinel]

Novak's diet is arguably stricter, although not vegetarian.

You need meat to be a top athlete I'd presume.
We've evolved to eat it after all.

You could be right there. I feel very energetic and strong without meat/eggs/fish, but there's no telling, I could be performing better on a non-veg diet. But then I am not competing or aiming to be a top athlete.

Do you have any details on Novak's diet. Some people here were wondering whether he still is gluten-free.

 

[JRAJ1988]

What's the name for someone who doesn't eat any meat but fish?

I don't eat any other meat barring the odd home made Tuna sandwich, I take Multivitamins, Iron, Magnesium, Zinc, Cod Liver Oil ect.

 

[Supertegwyn]

What's the name for someone who doesn't eat any meat but fish?

I don't eat any other meat barring the odd home made Tuna sandwich, I take Multivitamins, Iron, Magnesium, Zinc, Cod Liver Oil ect.

Pescatarian.

 

[tipsa...don'tlikehim!]

For breakfast try a hot cereal of quinoa, pecans, pumpkin seeds, hemp seeds, and blueberries with vanilla almond milk - once you've tried it, you won't be able to start the day without it. Vegetable Thai curry (coconut milk-based sauce) with tofu is one of my favourite lunch or dinner meals. Lemon/garlic/tahini/sea salt mixture is good for anything from salad dressings to a sauce you add at the end after preparing your favourite vegetable and whatever protein stir fry. Lightly sweetened chocolate peanut butter coconut milk ice cream is an amazing rich dessert.

Sounds great, thanks for the tips.

 

[Cortana]

I used to be a vegetarian for 2-3 years. It was a good time for me to spend more time thinking about what I'm actually eating and that meat doesn't grow on trees.

 

[dlk]

Fought with a lot a Special Ops guys (none were vegetarians). Served with a few vegetarians (none were very athletic or even cultured). Opinion; humans are carnivores, the high protein is what made our brains grow larger than other primates and allowed us to become the animal we are today.

 

[Beacon Hill]

Fought with a lot a Special Ops guys (none were vegetarians). Served with a few vegetarians (none were very athletic or even cultured). Opinion; humans are carnivores, the high protein is what made our brains grow larger than other primates and allowed us to become the animal we are today.

Did you come up with that theory using your large brain developed by your high-protein carnivore diet?

 

[Beacon Hill]

Wow !!! Everything that is dear to me in one bowl !!!!
Awesome !! I'd throw some chopped walnuts over it and maybe a lashing of chocolate fudge.

Best brand: Coconut Bliss.
Indeed blissful.

 

[mavsman149]

This thread makes me want to have a giant steak. You can't say meat without eat. Yummy

 

[HipRotation]

I sustain myself on the anguish of Federer, Nadal and Djokovic fanatics.

 

[Sentinel]

Fought with a lot a Special Ops guys (none were vegetarians). Served with a few vegetarians (none were very athletic or even cultured). Opinion; humans are carnivores, the high protein is what made our brains grow larger than other primates and allowed us to become the animal we are today.

So you base your conclusion on a "few" vegetarians ? I take it the majority of people in your unit are already meat eating so your conclusion is skewed. Why not try a unit where there are a lot of vegetarians. Perhaps India should have some.

You called the vegetarians uncultured, yet say that meat made us into animals Nice !

If this increase in brain capacity (thanks to eating meat or whatever other reason) has resulted in us polluting (and nearly destroying) everything on this planet, the water, the air and the soil, overrunning the forests, and endangering other species, then I'd gladly prefer to still be swinging from a tree, or have even gone extinct and allowed the Earth to survive. All said and done, seeing what we have contributed to the planet, or even achieved in total, I'd say it's mostly meaningless.

 

[Deleted member 716271]

I think vegetarianism is unhealthy.

Much prefer a paleo approach; it's natural.

Humans are meant to eat meat. If you can't for health reasons; cool...do you, boo. But this animal rights vegetarian/veganism approach is nonsense.

 

[Cortana]

I think vegetarianism is unhealthy.

Much prefer a paleo approach; it's natural.

Humans are meant to eat meat. If you can't for health reasons; cool...do you, boo. But this animal rights vegetarian/veganism approach is nonsense.

I think your attitude is umhealthy.

 

[Deleted member 716271]

I think your attitude is umhealthy.

Do you? Tell me why

 

[Sentinel]

I think vegetarianism is unhealthy.

Much prefer a paleo approach; it's natural.

Humans are meant to eat meat. If you can't for health reasons; cool...do you, boo. But this animal rights vegetarian/veganism approach is nonsense.

Why bring philosophy and beliefs into this ? Things (often) appear nonsense to you based on what you have been brought up on. For example, for me the vegan thing appears extreme because in India vegetarians do take milk products. So we see vegan as extreme and silly because we were brought up differently.

Why is a vegetarian diet unhealthy ?

I lead a physical life at 50, working out 6 days a week on a vegetarian (not vegan) diet. I feel extremely good.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

I've always just thought that you can be extremely fit and healthy as a vegetarian, but becuase we have technically evolved to eat meat, we can only reach 100% of the possible capability of a human by eating meat.

I reckon that you could play Top 10 tennis as a vegetarian, but to do a Federer or a Djokovic (essentially 100% of human capability), you'd have to have some animal protein at the very least.

I could easily be wrong, but that's just my gut feeling on how that's likely to work.

 

[rossi46]

Is Donna Vekic a vegetarian ?

 

[Cortana]

I reckon that you could play Top 10 tennis as a vegetarian, but to do a Federer or a Djokovic (essentially 100% of human capability), you'd have to have some animal protein at the very least.

Why? Amino acids are amino acids, doesn't matter if you get them from Whey protein, from meat or from plants. Total amount is important.

 

[dlk]

O

So you base your conclusion on a "few" vegetarians ? I take it the majority of people in your unit are already meat eating so your conclusion is skewed. Why not try a unit where there are a lot of vegetarians. Perhaps India should have some.

You called the vegetarians uncultured, yet say that meat made us into animals Nice !

If this increase in brain capacity (thanks to eating meat or whatever other reason) has resulted in us polluting (and nearly destroying) everything on this planet, the water, the air and the soil, overrunning the forests, and endangering other species, then I'd gladly prefer to still be swinging from a tree, or have even gone extinct and allowed the Earth to survive. All said and done, seeing what we have contributed to the planet, or even achieved in total, I'd say it's mostly meaningless.

Oooh, so sensitive. Relax, eat what you want, just my carnivorous opinion.

I did not say I wrote a thesis about my experience with vegetarianism (known a lot outside the Military too), and this is the scientific truth; just my opinion.

 

[dlk]

Did you come up with that theory using your large brain developed by your high-protein carnivore diet?

Why yes, yes I did. So like a lot of posters on this forum, you use one post to guide your opinion about a person? My extrapolation is more accurate than yours.

Why are you so concerned with my opinion? You must think highly of me & believe I might sway some undecided voters

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Why? Amino acids are amino acids, doesn't matter if you get them from Whey protein, from meat or from plants. Total amount is important.

But you get different amino acids and in different quantities/ratios.

As someone who knows a bit about biochemistry, I know that that can be very important.
Not saying it definitely is in this case, just that this should be kept in mind.

 

[Cortana]

But you get different amino acids and in different quantities/ratios.

As someone who knows a bit about biochemistry, I know that that can be very important.
Not saying it definitely is in this case, just that this should be kept in mind.

It won't be a problem if you are consuming 150-200g protein/day. There are even vegan bodybuilders.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

It won't be a problem if you are consuming 150-200g protein/day. There are even vegan bodybuilders.

If you consume 200g of whey or 2000g, you are still only getting the amino acids which occur in whey.
Beef contains completely different ones, and your body requires both (and probably requires the ones in beef more considering we didn't evolve to consume whey protein after infancy).

Also the ratio in which they occur will heavily affect the efficacy of enzymes in processing the amino acids and our body's ability to even assimilate them at all.
The organic chemistry governing the operation of cells is so complicated we aren't even close to fully understanding it.

But there is no perfect substitute for meat.

 

[Flash O'Groove]

If you consume 200g of whey or 2000g, you are still only getting the amino acids which occur in whey.
Beef contains completely different ones, and your body requires both (and probably requires the ones in beef more considering we didn't evolve to consume whey protein after infancy).

Also the ratio in which they occur will heavily affect the efficacy of enzymes in processing the amino acids and our body's ability to even assimilate them at all.
The organic chemistry governing the operation of cells is so complicated we aren't even close to fully understanding it.

But there is no perfect substitute for meat.

It might be a stupid comment, but if you consider that the human body require meat to function at 100% because of evolution, how do you explain thousands of years during which most human being didn't eat much meat because of poverty? Peasants constituted the biggest part of the population throughout the centuries and they certainly didn't eat meat on a daily basis, because if they had meat in the first place, it was better to sell it. Even my grandparents didn't eat much meat when they were kids, only sometime some pork or some chicken on sunday. Beef? On holly days. I except the generations before them ate a lot more sprouts, carrots, potatoes and wheat than meat. You need a good economy to eat as much meat as we do today.

 

[Cortana]

If you consume 200g of whey or 2000g, you are still only getting the amino acids which occur in whey.
Beef contains completely different ones, and your body requires both (and probably requires the ones in beef more considering we didn't evolve to consume whey protein after infancy).

Also the ratio in which they occur will heavily affect the efficacy of enzymes in processing the amino acids and our body's ability to even assimilate them at all.
The organic chemistry governing the operation of cells is so complicated we aren't even close to fully understanding it.

But there is no perfect substitute for meat.

So please tell me. Who will eat only 1 thing everyday? Ever heard something about diversity?

I think you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[tipsa...don'tlikehim!]

Bill Simmonds, vegan.

 

[Cortana]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Lewis

Frederick Carlton "Carl" Lewis (born July 1, 1961) is an American former track and field athlete, who won 10 Olympic medals, including nine gold, and 10 World Championships medals, including eight gold. His career spanned from 1979 to 1996 when he last won an Olympic title and subsequently retired.

Lewis is vegan. Lewis credits his outstanding 1991 results in part to the vegan diet he adopted in 1990, when he was in his late twenties. He has claimed it is better suited to him because he can eat a larger quantity without affecting his athleticism and he believes that switching to a vegan diet can lead to improved athletic performance.

 

[sureshs]

If you consume 200g of whey or 2000g, you are still only getting the amino acids which occur in whey.

Whey is a complete protein, meaning it contains all 9 essential amino acids (those that cannot be made in the numan body).

 

[heninfan99]

I love cows but I eat them. It's kinda effed up.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

So please tell me. Who will eat only 1 thing everyday? Ever heard something about diversity?

Whey gives you certain amino acids in certain ratios.
All the others (caesin, creatine, etc.) also give you certain amino acids in certain ratios.
Dairy will give you different ones again, and so of course will meat.
They are not perfect substitutes for each other.
Read what I previously said carefully, I said that these things can be pretty good substitutes, but I highly doubt they would be perfect.
Meat would likely be preferable for someone at, say, Federer's level.
He evolved specifically to eat that, not these powders we buy for $99.99 a jar which simply does not give you the active ingredients in their natural state.
Same with vitamin supplements, they simply aren't as good as just eating fruit and vegetables.
In biochemistry terms, this stuff matters, it's not just "Compound X in any form, quantity, or ratio will work".

I think you have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm sorry, but you'd be wrong.

 

[Deleted member 688153]

Whey is a complete protein, meaning it contains all 9 essential amino acids (those that cannot be made in the numan body).

The ratios in which they are given is not what we have evolved to process, though.
As I said above, it's like vitamin supplements.
Eating the food itself is still better.

 

[Cortana]

Most of my kcal intake is vegetarian/vegan and right now I'm in a bulking phase gaining muscles. A lot of muscles.

Your arguments are invalid.