RS
Bionic Poster
Djokovic RG 12 final vs Wawrinka RG 15 final?
Not being obtuse at all. Rather you are with you incorrect use of words. YOU were the one who said Djokovic had more FO than Swiss players. That is false! Only now do you include ‘each’. You did not before. You were wrong.
I've never use the H2H between 2 players unless the following conditions are true:
Two players are at the same age, same peak/prime years, and met on all surfaces evenly.
Win/loss percentage against the entire field is better criteria. It's the young Djoker fans who doesn't understand context behind H2H but conveniently use it against an old Federer at Wimbledon.
Injury is part of the sport. Peak Federer in 2005 would have won more MS1000, even WTF had he didn't severely sprain his ankle. It is what it is.
This thread is about best season in the open era. 2004 > 2011. Federer won more titles, higher winning percentage, and WTF. Djokovic did nothing after the USO, and lay an egg at the 5th most important event(WTF).
2006 > 2011 by some distance. It's not worth debating
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Both are factually correct but only because you are pretending to be obtuse, since there's nothing else for you to do. If I had said, Djokovic had more RG titles than the Swiss players combined, then it would be incorrect. So back to your original statement, that Djokovic can't beat Swiss players at his best at RG...well that didn't stop him from winning multiple of them.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Novak wasn't at his best in the 2011 match and certainly not the 2015 final anyway.
Djokovic was definitely prime-level in the 2011 SF but it's still shy of his absolute best (which we saw in bits of the 2012 and 2013 finals as well as the 2016 tournament and the match against Nadal in 2015). Fed, of course, played one of his best RG matches: I have it second only behind the 2009 final masterclass.
Djokovic was quite far from his best in the 2015 final. He peaked in the QF but he played too passive in the final which plays right into Stan's hands. Not one of his best days.
Djokovic was definitely prime-level in the 2011 SF but it's still shy of his absolute best (which we saw in bits of the 2012 and 2013 finals as well as the 2016 tournament and the match against Nadal in 2015). Fed, of course, played one of his best RG matches: I have it second only behind the 2009 final masterclass.
Djokovic was quite far from his best in the 2015 final. He peaked in the QF but he played too passive in the final which plays right into Stan's hands. Not one of his best days.
Gonzo_style
Hall of Fame
Level of play - 2011
Achievement - 2015
Achievement - 2015
No. You are incorrect. You just can’t admit you are wrong. Swiss players have 2 FO. Game over,
RS
Bionic Poster
Nadal Wim 06 final vs Djokovic Wim 21 final?
This is hard as Djokovic 21 has the experience, mental strength and serve but Nadal 06 definitely had the energy and was great on grass.
On the eye it would seem Nadal be better as Djokovic’s strengths are more composure and experience.
Also 2015 Djokovic was better than 2011 for me just 2011 was better for shock value due to his huge increase in level.
Fed 06 was insane level mixed with ruthless results.
Nadal 2010 was great level especially USO level was Nadal peak on HC
and no clay tournaments! 2 less big titles (3 slams, WTF, 6 masters + MM vs 3 slams, WTF, 4 masters + 4 MM)!
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nole vs fed 2015
| 2015 | ATP Finals Great Britain | Indoor Hard | RR | Roger Federer | 75 62 |
| 2015 | ATP Finals Great Britain | Indoor Hard | F | Novak Djokovic | 63 64 |
| 2015 | US Open NY, U.S.A. | Outdoor Hard | F | Novak Djokovic | 64 57 64 64 |
| 2015 | ATP Masters 1000 Cincinnati OH, U.S.A. | Outdoor Hard | F | Roger Federer | 761 63 |
| 2015 | Wimbledon Great Britain | Outdoor Grass | F | Novak Djokovic | 761 6710 64 63 |
| 2015 | ATP Masters 1000 Rome Italy | Outdoor Clay | F | Novak Djokovic | 64 63 |
| 2015 | ATP Masters 1000 Indian Wells CA, U.S.A. | Outdoor Hard | F | Novak Djokovic | 63 675 62 |
| 2015 | Dubai U.A.E. | Outdoor Hard | F | Roger Federer | 63 75 |
nole 5 - 3 (62,5%)
BUT
noles all victories were in the finals of big tournaments and on all surfaces! including USO and W finals. of 3 feds wins, one was in WTFs RR but he lost to nole in the final! and the other was in an MM tournament! all 3 were on HC.
fed vs rafa 2006
| 2006 | Tennis Masters Cup China | Indoor Hard | SF | Roger Federer | 64 75 |
| 2006 | Wimbledon Great Britain | Outdoor Grass | F | Roger Federer | 60 765 672 63 |
| 2006 | Roland Garros France | Outdoor Clay | F | Rafael Nadal | 16 61 64 764 |
| 2006 | ATP Masters 1000 Rome Italy | Outdoor Clay | F | Rafael Nadal | 670 765 64 26 765 |
| 2006 | ATP Masters 1000 Monte Carlo Monaco | Outdoor Clay | F | Rafael Nadal | 62 672 63 765 |
| 2006 | Dubai U.A.E. | Outdoor Hard | F | Rafael Nadal | 26 64 64 |
4-2 rafa (66,7%)
fed had a negative record against his only big rival in 2006. won only 1/3 of matches and lost on 2 different surfaces. had a positive h2h only on grass!
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Obviously Djokovic record is better but what Fed has for himself is he was 33 so it was harder for him.
It’s hard to compare seasons. Fed 06 was the most ruthless even including losing to Nadal on Clay.
Djokovic 1st half of 2011 was nuts.
Djokovic 2015 F run was insane.
All have great shouts.
Ultimate Tennis Statistics - Best Seasons
Most successful Open Era tennis seasons by all-time greats
www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com
That list has Djokovic 2 times in top 5.
Federer 4 times in top 10. Yet it’s the only 4 in top 20.
Djokovic is in top 20 5 times.
Kind of right for me Djokovic has 2011 and 2015 which are top 5 and Fed has 06 that is top 5 yet Fed’s 04/05/07 are better than other Djokovic seasons but any other of his seasons isn’t as good as Djokovic’s others.
The Big Foe fan
Hall of Fame
Put Djokovic in there and the serb would not lose any one of them. Its all about mental toughness and clutch bruh.
The Big Foe fan
Hall of Fame
ForehandRF
Legend
2015 Djokovic will win this and no wonder, given the stats.Wawrinka saved that year from being a no contest, but the same can be argued for Fed's 2006, having Nadal and he was also forced to play best of 5 even in masters 
ForehandRF
Legend
There is an argument that back in 1969 there were no hardcourt slams and that made the CYGS more likely to be achieved than today.I won't disagree with those who have this point of view
There is an argument that back in 1969 there were no hardcourt slams and that made the CYGS more likely to be achieved than today.I won't disagree with those who have this point of view
People who can win on grass and clay courts generally should win on hard courts as well as it is in the middle in terms of speed. Borg being the notable exception
NatF
Bionic Poster
There is an argument that back in 1969 there were no hardcourt slams and that made the CYGS more likely to be achieved than today.I won't disagree with those who have this point of view
Laver won the biggest HC tournaments of the year as well, the condition of some of those grass courts weren't great either - I don't think it was necessarily easier.
Adam Copeland
Hall of Fame
Easy.
01. Mac 1984
02. Djoker 2011
03. Fed 2006
I am a big fan of Novak, but lets be real, in 2015 Nadal was out, Federer was 34 and most important of all Stan did beat Novak comprehensively in the final, for a guy who is supposedly at the zenith of his powers this doesn't look well to lose to Stan, same as Federer 05, looked like he was at his zenith but Safin beat him fair and square, so these sorta years where somebody beats you with a supreme performance makes it tough for your peak to be actually be considered the ceiling of Tennis. 1984, 06 and 11 are savage seasons, especially 1984 which is probably the greatest season ever.
01. Mac 1984
02. Djoker 2011
03. Fed 2006
I am a big fan of Novak, but lets be real, in 2015 Nadal was out, Federer was 34 and most important of all Stan did beat Novak comprehensively in the final, for a guy who is supposedly at the zenith of his powers this doesn't look well to lose to Stan, same as Federer 05, looked like he was at his zenith but Safin beat him fair and square, so these sorta years where somebody beats you with a supreme performance makes it tough for your peak to be actually be considered the ceiling of Tennis. 1984, 06 and 11 are savage seasons, especially 1984 which is probably the greatest season ever.
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Noleberic123
G.O.A.T.
On HC? On grass? I don't think so.
Nadal_Django
Legend
Haha, that guy is trying too hard.
Adam Copeland
Hall of Fame
On HC
2015 Fed > 2006 Nadal
On Grass
2015 Fed > 2006 Nadal
On Clay
Even Old Nadal down with Fever > Peak Fed
2015 Fed > 2006 Nadal
On Grass
2015 Fed > 2006 Nadal
On Clay
Even Old Nadal down with Fever > Peak Fed
mike danny
Bionic Poster
On HC and grass he wasn't, but overall he was better. He had an entire surface under complete lockdown which is something Fed didn't have.
And even on grass, I don't think his middle 2 sets were worse than Fed's first 2. Those were their best sets. Of course, Fed edges it comfortably due to being better in the other sets.
D
Deleted member 779124
Guest
Achievements - Laver 1969
Level of play - 2006 Federer
Level of play - 2006 Federer
FloridaHawaiiMan
New User
Djokovic is the greatest player of all time, in my opinion.
Fiero425
Legend
Vilas never got much play even when he won 2 majors in '77! Borg pretty much owned him abd his success against Connors was late!
Fiero425
Legend
Sorry, but historians aren't going to GAF about Fedal! The rest of the tour was good enough; Nole just played tough and grinded them all down! Lucky Stan was about!
Yet again, it ain't so surprise that Djoker wins every poll at TTW
Agree to disagree
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Yes, Borg owned Vilas as his career H2H was 17-5, and 3-0 in 1977 (including here his SF loss in the 1977 Masters, which was played in the first week of Jan 1978)Vilas never got much play even when he won 2 majors in '77! Borg pretty much owned him abd his success against Connors was late!
But Vilas played a lot in 1977 by any standards, having a monster season.
In that year:
- He won 2 slams - RG and USO (both on clay). He was also the runner up at the January 1977 AO.
- He set an open era record of 46 consecutive match wins (no surface distinction), only to be stopped by Ilie Nastase spaghetti string bed racket, shortly afterwards banned. After that match, he continued playing unbeaten, winning 26 consecutive more matches until the end of the calendar year 1977. Which means he won 72 of 73 of his matches in that period.
- Won 16 ATP titles (14 of them on clay)
- Match win - loss record of 131-13 (open era record of wins in a season - 130 wins according to other sources)
- He was considered the #1 of that year at the times when the ATP rankings were not the generally accepted standard, as they started to be a couple of years after.
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I feel 2015 Djokovic was better than Djokovic 2011. His improved serve, god mental strength and just pure experience was the perfect mix.
On ultimatestats,
Fed has 1 season in top 5 which is 06
He then has 3 season in the top 10 04/05/07
Then no more in top 20.
Djokovic has 2 season in top 5.
Then no more in top 10
But he has 4 in the top 21.
It shows that 06 is with 11/15
Then Fed’s 04/05/07 is better than any other Djokovic season but Djokovic has had more great seasons than Fed.
Fed has 1 season in top 5 which is 06
He then has 3 season in the top 10 04/05/07
Then no more in top 20.
Djokovic has 2 season in top 5.
Then no more in top 10
But he has 4 in the top 21.
It shows that 06 is with 11/15
Then Fed’s 04/05/07 is better than any other Djokovic season but Djokovic has had more great seasons than Fed.
The Big Foe fan
Hall of Fame
The Big Foe fan
Hall of Fame
Personal preference bruh. Your call.
abmk
Bionic Poster
slow HC - 11
clay - 11
fast HC - 11
grass - 15
indoors 15
3 of the 4 slams go to 11 (AO, RG, USO). Wim to 15.
Nadal_Django
Legend
How do you know all this stuff?
Amazing knowledge!2015 WIM Djokovic vs 2015 WIM Federer? What your tennis wisdom is telling you?
Adam Copeland
Hall of Fame
Sorry, but historians aren't going to GAF about Fedal! The rest of the tour was good enough; Nole just played tough and grinded them all down! Lucky Stan was about!
But Fedal are the closest competitors to Nole, so their decline holds some importance,. right?
For me 2011 is better than 2015 because Fedal were still extremely good in 2011, Federer was off his peak but he was still in his prime, Nadal was at his peak after having a brilliant 2010 and only thing that stopped him from repeating his 2010 was Nole.
Autodidactic player
Professional
Jimmy Connors won 3 majors and 15 total titles in 1974 but somehow only played 8 top 10 players all year.
If that happened today, this board would light up with easy draw(s) threads.
If that happened today, this board would light up with easy draw(s) threads.
Level of play: Nole 2011. A dominant 3 Slam season in the most competitive years of tennis(2011-13).
Achievements: Nole 2015. 3 Slam + 6 Masters + WTF. Federer 2006 is close(2 less Masters, but 2 more overall titles).
So I'll go with these 3.
We can obviously take Laver 1969. The CYGS. But honestly, even if Nole would had beat Medvedev in USO final, I was not going to take 2021> 2015 in terms of achievement.
It's hard to compare 1969 against a recent season. It technically was in Open Era, but a lot of dynamics were like pre-open era in late 60s.
Achievements: Nole 2015. 3 Slam + 6 Masters + WTF. Federer 2006 is close(2 less Masters, but 2 more overall titles).
So I'll go with these 3.
We can obviously take Laver 1969. The CYGS. But honestly, even if Nole would had beat Medvedev in USO final, I was not going to take 2021> 2015 in terms of achievement.
It's hard to compare 1969 against a recent season. It technically was in Open Era, but a lot of dynamics were like pre-open era in late 60s.
