Want A Better, More Powerful Serve? (The 10 Step Program)

[papa]

Well, a lot of interesting/good information has been presented in this thread.

However, when I hear these percentage figures used, it really makes me wonder if we're really comparing similiar items. For instance, the knee bend, in itself, probably doesn't contribute much in the power department and I too would agree for many it probably is a negative. However, the use of the legs is, in my opinion, not only is a key factor in the balance of the server but plays a major role in the fluid action of the service motion itself.

Sure, many of us can serve from our knees, a chair, sitting on the court, etc. but I'm not sure it proves much other than the necessity of hitting up. Even if one is kneeling, your using your legs at least the upper part. Although it might be possible, I wonder if someone can hit serves over 100mph sitting on the court which would be using no legs at all. Maybe it can be done but I know I couldn't do it.

I think it impossible NOT to use the legs if your serving standing up - everything is connected in such a manner that its difficult to seperate the hips from the legs, the hips from the shoulders, etc.

Incidently, what references/studies are we talking about here that break down these elements into percentages? Might be interesting to take a look at them.

 

[papa]

Why is it when requests are made for references/sources regarding various statements, that the thread quickly dies. Seems to me that if someone has a "new" concept/idea, then they should say so but I think advice should be well founded and referenced - maybe others feel differetly.

Jeez, makes me wonder if various statement(s) might not be either accurate/proven/wild ideas or taken out of context.

 

[Tennismastery]

The above are good points.

And at the risk of appearing to concede the argument, even if the legs don't contribute large sums of power to the serve, they are a part of an ideal serve. I think one would be hard-pressed to find a coach who would not mention a knee bend when teaching how to serve (even if it does happen naturally).

Correct. However, many players focus on the use of the legs and fail to learn or master the upper body movements that contribute the greatest percentage of power as well as the key component in generating the proper spin axis and ball rotation. My comments are not to offer a 'no leg' attribute to learning the serve. The point of my comments is that in my experience, for those players who serve poorly, their legs have very little--if nothing--to do with their poor serves. Thus adjusting or focusing on the legs as if this was going to cure their service blues will not solve problems inherent to other aspects of the serve.

 

[TennsDog]

Correct. However, many players focus on the use of the legs and fail to learn or master the upper body movements that contribute the greatest percentage of power as well as the key component in generating the proper spin axis and ball rotation. My comments are not to offer a 'no leg' attribute to learning the serve. The point of my comments is that in my experience, for those players who serve poorly, their legs have very little--if nothing--to do with their poor serves. Thus adjusting or focusing on the legs as if this was going to cure their service blues will not solve problems inherent to other aspects of the serve.

Yes, I do agree that use of legs is an inappropriate focus of attention for someone struggling with the serve.

One intention (if not the primary) of my original post was for those people who already have a good serve with well-developed mechanics and are just looking for that little something extra to give some added oomph or just to hone the skill. If someone has a good foundation and can use the serve effectively but fail to fully integrate legs into the motion, learning to properly use the legs would be a good step toward mastering the serve.

 

[Tennismastery]

Yes, I do agree that use of legs is an inappropriate focus of attention for someone struggling with the serve.

One intention (if not the primary) of my original post was for those people who already have a good serve with well-developed mechanics and are just looking for that little something extra to give some added oomph or just to hone the skill. If someone has a good foundation and can use the serve effectively but fail to fully integrate legs into the motion, learning to properly use the legs would be a good step toward mastering the serve.

T-Dog...Yes. I may have missed your point. I agree with you 100%. Once the proper serve mechanics are established, players certainly can and should look to the legs for that added element that the legs can provide when used properly. If I can mention my book here without trying to sound too promoting, (TENNIS MASTERY), I mention the three uses of the legs (after acquisition of the proper swing pattern) to increase service effect: a) Upward thrust, the act of extending upward into the serve; b) Forward Thrust, the act of leaning and thrusting forward into the court by use of the legs; and c) Rotational Thrust, the act of coil and un coiling of the legs (and upper body relative to the legs) to create angular momentum. (This latter element, rotational thrust, contributes to greater racquet head speed of the three.

Sorry if I missed your point. You're absolutely correct.

 

[chess9]

Why is it when requests are made for references/sources regarding various statements, that the thread quickly dies. Seems to me that if someone has a "new" concept/idea, then they should say so but I think advice should be well founded and referenced - maybe others feel differetly.

Jeez, makes me wonder if various statement(s) might not be either accurate/proven/wild ideas or taken out of context.

The forces generated by the various parts of the body in producing a serve are still the subject of considerable investigation, last time I checked on www.tennisplayer.net.

I suspect the percentages used here have "illustrative" value ONLY.

Also, IMHO, guys like Roscoe Tanner/Andy Roddick for instance, generate a larger percentage of their power from their upper body, whereas I would GUESS that Federer and Sampras get more from their lower bodies. Are the percentage differences significant? Probably not, but I'm guessing based upon a visual assessment.

Does this matter? Well, I think it has pedagogical implications, but the practical implications are probably much less. Most club players have horrible serves, and more importantly, don't seem inclined to improve them. I played a younger guy last night who double faulted every service game! He's been playing 30 years, too. Shameful? Or just the ordered priorities of a man with a life?

-Robert

 

[papa]

The forces generated by the various parts of the body in producing a serve are still the subject of considerable investigation, last time I checked on www.tennisplayer.net.

I suspect the percentages used here have "illustrative" value ONLY.

Also, IMHO, guys like Roscoe Tanner/Andy Roddick for instance, generate a larger percentage of their power from their upper body, whereas I would GUESS that Federer and Sampras get more from their lower bodies. Are the percentage differences significant? Probably not, but I'm guessing based upon a visual assessment.

Does this matter? Well, I think it has pedagogical implications, but the practical implications are probably much less. Most club players have horrible serves, and more importantly, don't seem inclined to improve them. I played a younger guy last night who double faulted every service game! He's been playing 30 years, too. Shameful? Or just the ordered priorities of a man with a life?

-Robert

Well presented response.

I, like many here, have been around the sport for a considerable time. Like to think I know a considerable amount but always willing to look at new ideas. However, I really get ticked when figures or ideas are presented that cannot be backed up with either references or studies.

Someone "thinking/believing/guessing" that this or that is "right" based soley on their own experience (unless that experience is extensive) really doesn't cut it - at least to me anyway. There are several here that have either published books/articles, are teaching pros, etc. that certainly represent not only their interest in the sport but knowledge in general. However, one should be able to quote references or state that this concept/idea is "new/their own" so the reader can assess the context of their statements.

I'm also bothered by statements "of fact" that actually have been around for years but they want everyone to think its their original concept.

 

[Tennismastery]

Well presented response.

I, like many here, have been around the sport for a considerable time. Like to think I know a considerable amount but always willing to look at new ideas. However, I really get ticked when figures or ideas are presented that cannot be backed up with either references or studies.

Someone "thinking/believing/guessing" that this or that is "right" based soley on their own experience (unless that experience is extensive) really doesn't cut it - at least to me anyway. There are several here that have either published books/articles, are teaching pros, etc. that certainly represent not only their interest in the sport but knowledge in general. However, one should be able to quote references or state that this concept/idea is "new/their own" so the reader can assess the context of their statements.

I'm also bothered by statements "of fact" that actually have been around for years but they want everyone to think its their original concept.

I don't know if this post is directed towards my contributions on this thread or not...I did include percentages and quoted at least one of my sources. The 7 to 12% from leg usage was determined by Vic Braden and Dr. Gideon Aieral who did some research into various biomechanical/quantitative components of tennis movements. I don't put much value in what Braden has deduced by a lot of this research (his methodology is not what I consider ideal in some aspects of player progression and advanced play.) In addition, I speak around the country at tennis seminars and conventions and, in doing so, I enjoy the 'education' I get when I hear other well-established pros share their own information. (Not that I will agree with all of it, however, one can't form logical conclusions with only a small degree of information provided.) As a colleague of John Yandell, (Advanced Tennis Research Project, TennisPlayer.net) I have learned and obtained many useful and reliable data to support my own findings and teachings from him. Robert Landsdorp, another obviously exceptionally gifted pro, (who has trained the likes of Sampras, Sharapova, etc.), has often shared his teaching methods and other helpful tennis advice at many of the USPTA conventions I have attended over the years. There are many others here that I won't bore you with that I have had the opportunity to learn from as well.

I would say that the vast majority of 'advice' found at this forum is qualitative personal experience with minimal real professional education and experience. (There are obvious exceptions to this statement with many of you having similar professional experiences and are willing and able to convey this information to those who are trying to learn from this type of site...in which everyone benefits and should be somewhat grateful for your time and expertise.) However, I also learn from those who seek help and in many of the responses presented...right or wrong...as this tells me even more of what a broad range of players are thinking and asking.

So, at least, I hope I have offered my own 'stats' and basis for where I get my numbers and conclusions from.

 

[chess9]

Well presented response.

I, like many here, have been around the sport for a considerable time. Like to think I know a considerable amount but always willing to look at new ideas. However, I really get ticked when figures or ideas are presented that cannot be backed up with either references or studies.

Someone "thinking/believing/guessing" that this or that is "right" based soley on their own experience (unless that experience is extensive) really doesn't cut it - at least to me anyway. There are several here that have either published books/articles, are teaching pros, etc. that certainly represent not only their interest in the sport but knowledge in general. However, one should be able to quote references or state that this concept/idea is "new/their own" so the reader can assess the context of their statements.

I'm also bothered by statements "of fact" that actually have been around for years but they want everyone to think its their original concept.

I agree with you, and in no uncertain terms. When it comes to the racquet debate, this problem is particularly acute. Unfortunately, some people have limited skills when it comes to presenting cogent arguments, yet sometimes they come up with a little nugget worth considering, even though it may ultimately prove to be unfounded. I like to think I learn something from almost everyone here.

-Robert

 

[papa]

I don't know if this post is directed towards my contributions on this thread or not...I did include percentages and quoted at least one of my sources. The 7 to 12% from leg usage was determined by Vic Braden and Dr. Gideon Aieral who did some research into various biomechanical/quantitative components of tennis movements. I don't put much value in what Braden has deduced by a lot of this research (his methodology is not what I consider ideal in some aspects of player progression and advanced play.) In addition, I speak around the country at tennis seminars and conventions and, in doing so, I enjoy the 'education' I get when I hear other well-established pros share their own information. (Not that I will agree with all of it, however, one can't form logical conclusions with only a small degree of information provided.) As a colleague of John Yandell, (Advanced Tennis Research Project, TennisPlayer.net) I have learned and obtained many useful and reliable data to support my own findings and teachings from him. Robert Landsdorp, another obviously exceptionally gifted pro, (who has trained the likes of Sampras, Sharapova, etc.), has often shared his teaching methods and other helpful tennis advice at many of the USPTA conventions I have attended over the years. There are many others here that I won't bore you with that I have had the opportunity to learn from as well.

I would say that the vast majority of 'advice' found at this forum is qualitative personal experience with minimal real professional education and experience. (There are obvious exceptions to this statement with many of you having similar professional experiences and are willing and able to convey this information to those who are trying to learn from this type of site...in which everyone benefits and should be somewhat grateful for your time and expertise.) However, I also learn from those who seek help and in many of the responses presented...right or wrong...as this tells me even more of what a broad range of players are thinking and asking.

So, at least, I hope I have offered my own 'stats' and basis for where I get my numbers and conclusions from.

Dave, your not my problem nor should you be the concern of anyone else from either an experience or knowledge standpoint. Although we all have "different" methods/ideas, your stuff, for quite a while, has been solid and I respect your background and interest in the sport. Unlike some others, I have absolutely no problem with players/coaches like yourself, who have books they are pushing (for lack of better term) - I think it healthy and I have advised/expressed an interest in others to publish. As most who have published know, its not an easy route nor necessarily a road to riches as many think.

Most of the people you mentioned I have a high respect for - a couple I wonder about but such is life. Although Yandell "could" have selected a different school as an undergraduate, I have the highest respect for his work over the years and can only wish him the best of everything.

I have a huge problem (sorry, lifetime in engineering) with references. Even with the sources you indicated, as you know, there are some major differences with their approaches to the sport - its not so much that they haven't studied the sport as much as their advice varies a great deal. It seems to me, that the average reader should know the "basis" of where posters get their information when the posts are long and very specific. BB has been very good at giving the reader information regarding sources which is something I admire - there are several others too but some of the advice given here is absolutely awfull and incomplete.

Well, after all that, I for one, would not have gotten so excited had I known that the "percentage of legs issue" was advanced by Vic - it kinda puts it into perspective. Although some of his "view" have been insightfull, many others have been rather off the wall.

 

[FD3S]

Question: When you shift your weight during the serve, that means you still use your rear leg to drive, right?

 

[Tennismastery]

Dave, your not my problem nor should you be the concern of anyone else from either an experience or knowledge standpoint. Although we all have "different" methods/ideas, your stuff, for quite a while, has been solid and I respect your background and interest in the sport. Unlike some others, I have absolutely no problem with players/coaches like yourself, who have books they are pushing (for lack of better term) - I think it healthy and I have advised/expressed an interest in others to publish. As most who have published know, its not an easy route nor necessarily a road to riches as many think.

Most of the people you mentioned I have a high respect for - a couple I wonder about but such is life. Although Yandell "could" have selected a different school as an undergraduate, I have the highest respect for his work over the years and can only wish him the best of everything.

I have a huge problem (sorry, lifetime in engineering) with references. Even with the sources you indicated, as you know, there are some major differences with their approaches to the sport - its not so much that they haven't studied the sport as much as their advice varies a great deal. It seems to me, that the average reader should know the "basis" of where posters get their information when the posts are long and very specific. BB has been very good at giving the reader information regarding sources which is something I admire - there are several others too but some of the advice given here is absolutely awfull and incomplete.

Well, after all that, I for one, would not have gotten so excited had I known that the "percentage of legs issue" was advanced by Vic - it kinda puts it into perspective. Although some of his "view" have been insightfull, many others have been rather off the wall.

Papa, thanks for your note and support. I agree with you that there can be some very 'off the wall' advice even from recognized pros. I can only say that there are three things that, in my opinion, help increase the chance of providing the most helpful advice from a tennis teaching individual:

1. Teaching experience. This, in terms of both years of teaching as well as in the number of students taugth.

2. Playing experience: While this element is does not always translate into one becoming a great instructor, the ability for a pro to relate to and understand the on-court realities is most helpful.

3. Education and the ability to transfer knowledge from one person to the next. Having a good vocabulary, having a good array of axioms and analogies, and having the ability to convey elements of the game in more than one way, all help the student gain understanding of elements of the game that may come easy or seem complex from one person to the next.

And thanks too for understanding about the publishing and promoting side! Few pros who have taken the time to write a book about anything have found it is almost always a 'labor of love' where the return on our investment of money and time is a pitence. It is 'word of mouth' that makes it for many of us selling books. I have been fortunate to have many mention my book here as well as receive some terrific reviews. This helps make all the hard work worth it! Certainly, the best I could hope for would be that I was able to help someone through their interest in my book.

Best,
Dave

 

[Tennismastery]

Question: When you shift your weight during the serve, that means you still use your rear leg to drive, right?

Of course, any shift of your center of gravity will require some element of your legs. During the weight shift, the weight of the player moves (for most good servers) from the front foot (at preparation) to the rear foot (during the toss). However, there is a return to a more forward weight movement back to the front foot...which is the pedominant foot in which good servers will push off of on their forward and upward thrust. The back foot, as you will see in nearly every skilled server, kicks back behind the player after or during contact. Most top servers will land on their front leg, the one they pushed off of, followed by the rear leg's follow-through after the kick-back and then step into the court. This sequence is what I consider one of the most obvious differenecs between skilled servers and more mediocre. Most beginners will step through with their back leg during contact and subsequently, land on this foot first. Without going into the myriad of faulty aspects this footwork provides, let me just say that it is probably the most common defining elements found between weak servers and skilled. (Besides the grip and swing path problems!)

 

[TennsDog]

Question: When you shift your weight during the serve, that means you still use your rear leg to drive, right?

Sorry, I missed the poing of your question before. It depends on your type of serve how much the back leg is used. If you use a pinpoint stance where you bring your back leg forward, it will be used more than platform where it stays back. In either case, the front foot is the dominant driving force. I used to serve pinpoint, but then I switched to platform. When I first switched, I was having pain high in my right leg. I deteremined the problem was I was using that leg too much to push off like I did with pinpoint stance. I solved it by ensureing that I felt my back leg tap against my front foot during the serve. By doing so, it forced my back leg to lose all weight and become totally loose.
So basically, my advice: if you use platform, don't use the back leg at all to push off. If you use pinpoint, don't think about using it. Based on bodily mechanics, I'm sure you will end up getting some drive from the back leg even if you don't try to. Just focus on pushing off with the front leg and everything else should more-or-less fall into place (weight-wise, anyway).

 

[Bungalo Bill]

Question: When you shift your weight during the serve, that means you still use your rear leg to drive, right?

While certainly your back leg/foot slides forward as your motion progresses (pinpoint stance), a lot of the push off and pressure will transfer to your front leg. The same is true for the platform stance as you transfer your wieight over your front leg.

You want to use your legs to work in such a way that it sets off a chain reaction in the lower body. The legs bend to allow for extension in the front side, remain in balance, and help with thrust. But as the legs extend straight again (as you go up to the ball), right before they reach their maximum extension, the final thrust comes from your toes. When you can feel that spring in your motion, your legs are being used well.

 

[fastdunn]

2. While legs are an important part of a great serve, they are far from the most important. I have trained wheelchair players to serve over 100 mph, and I myself, demonstrate serving on my knees (at over 100 mph) to show that the legs are not critcal to having a great serve. (Since most recreational to club players seldom serve at 100 mph, and most use their legs to some degree, they obviously are deficent in other parts of the serve equation.)

3. Spin: If a player does not understand the concept of spin and axis of spin, swinging with the legs, a loose wrist and arm, and a perception of snapping the wrist will all be wasted. Even a serve at 130 + mph has to have spin (unless the player is about 8 feet tall!). There have been studies to show the amount and kind of spin that players such as Roddick, Sampras, and others use on their serves. The vast majority of players I see playing tennis or that come to my academy, fail in this area of understanding the serve.
.

I read a paper from a guy in Indiana University that says
3 joints of arm only contributes 70-80% of resulting speed.
(It's still the arm that does most of work)
So I think you're right. You have to get the right fundamental elements first
(right arm swing path for pace and spin) and then think about the rest.

But TennisDog's posting never meant muscling leg bend.
He mentioned "kinetic chain". It's a bridging element in that chain.
Knee joint's contribution to final speed is only like 5 % but
if your legs are frozen, that's usually a sign that your other joints
are not working properly.

 

[tennisplayer]

My serve has had the greatest improvements after I made the following fixes:

1. Being totally relaxed during the serve motion. This has even improved my toss - more so than all the adjustments to how I hold the ball and when exactly I let go of it.

2. Opening out the chest completely. I think there's a difference between this and rotating the shoulders. Rotating the shoulders without opening the chest doesn't do much for me, whereas opening the chest fully lets me put a lot of "body" into the serve. Opening the chest makes me take the racquet back, but I don't do the backscratch or even think about dropping the racquet. This also loads the legs, so the knees get slightly flexed. I never deliberately flex the knees.

3. Launching into the ball with the body. This is a forward and upward movement, which I think causes the "jump". If I try to jump into the serve, the effect is miserable. It's better not to think about the legs - just unwind into the serve.

4. Pronating the arm before contact. Well, there are many schools of thought here, even on this board, and I now believe this needs to be done explicitly at very advanced levels. When done right - and you can feel it - this adds a whole lot of pace and spin.

I was watching Philippoussis win the Hall of Fame tournament a few days ago... his serve is a perfect example of using the body to advantage, IMO.

 

[Bungalo Bill]

My serve has had the greatest improvements after I made the following fixes:

1. Being totally relaxed during the serve motion. This has even improved my toss - more so than all the adjustments to how I hold the ball and when exactly I let go of it.

2. Opening out the chest completely. I think there's a difference between this and rotating the shoulders. Rotating the shoulders without opening the chest doesn't do much for me, whereas opening the chest fully lets me put a lot of "body" into the serve. Opening the chest makes me take the racquet back, but I don't do the backscratch or even think about dropping the racquet. This also loads the legs, so the knees get slightly flexed. I never deliberately flex the knees.

3. Launching into the ball with the body. This is a forward and upward movement, which I think causes the "jump". If I try to jump into the serve, the effect is miserable. It's better not to think about the legs - just unwind into the serve.

4. Pronating the arm before contact. Well, there are many schools of thought here, even on this board, and I now believe this needs to be done explicitly at very advanced levels. When done right - and you can feel it - this adds a whole lot of pace and spin.

I was watching Philippoussis win the Hall of Fame tournament a few days ago... his serve is a perfect example of using the body to advantage, IMO.

Totally agree with all you said above. Very good!

 

[donnyz89]

somethings... I like to add...

1) Same routine every serve. Dont overlook the routines. Like taking a freethrow, do the same bounce, breath, footmovement everytime. especially in a match.

2) this is obvious but people dont do it often enough, hit it while its high. you wanna kinda feel like you are reaching up for it instead of letting it get low and pushing it forward.

3) very important that I learned from a VERY certified pro who was at a national meeting for coaches i guess... push off with your right foot!!!!!!!! this will make you go forward. sometimes people dont push off with their right foot (righties) and their right foot end up kicking up a lot of the time, BAD momentum shift, no penetration.

4) confidence confidence confidence. dont try to get the serve in, but know your serve is going in and pick your target. on kick serves, know its going in and if it doesnt, dont worry about it. when practicing, always practice with the right technique, know you have the right technique and do that over and over until its second nature. but of course the key is having right technique.

 

[TennsDog]

3) very important that I learned from a VERY certified pro who was at a national meeting for coaches i guess... push off with your right foot!!!!!!!! this will make you go forward. sometimes people dont push off with their right foot (righties) and their right foot end up kicking up a lot of the time, BAD momentum shift, no penetration.

I don't agree with this. I find it's actually the opposite as truth. If you are able to push off into the serve with your back foot (platform serve, anyway), you have not completed enough of a weight shift forward and thus will not get pace and penetration. When I was doing this a while ago, it also caused inconsistancy, lack of spin, and pain in the right leg. Ensuring no force came from the back leg fixed everything.

This is all, however, almost completely irrelevent if you were talking strictly about a pinpoint service stance.

 

[retroceso]

some vidoes would alway be nice. you should make a video tennsdog, showing all the steps you just said. lol, just a thought

 

[TennsDog]

I already have.

The terms "forward/backward" and "in front/behind" can be confusing when dealing with the serve. There are two separate orientations with the serve: forward being towards the net (before and after the serve) and the sideline (during the serve). The use of "behind your head" when talking about a topspin serve refers to the latter, where the ball is tossed behind you along the baseline, but is still into the court with respect to the first orientation. See this video, it may or may not help. Both serves seen are topspin serves and both bring me well into the court.
http://members.aol.com/mkbennetts/PAP/serve.mov

http://members.aol.com/mkbennetts/PAP/serve2.mov

 

[Brooklyn_bum]

My serve has had the greatest improvements after I made the following fixes:

1. Being totally relaxed during the serve motion. This has even improved my toss - more so than all the adjustments to how I hold the ball and when exactly I let go of it.

2. Opening out the chest completely. I think there's a difference between this and rotating the shoulders. Rotating the shoulders without opening the chest doesn't do much for me, whereas opening the chest fully lets me put a lot of "body" into the serve. Opening the chest makes me take the racquet back, but I don't do the backscratch or even think about dropping the racquet. This also loads the legs, so the knees get slightly flexed. I never deliberately flex the knees.

3. Launching into the ball with the body. This is a forward and upward movement, which I think causes the "jump". If I try to jump into the serve, the effect is miserable. It's better not to think about the legs - just unwind into the serve.

4. Pronating the arm before contact. Well, there are many schools of thought here, even on this board, and I now believe this needs to be done explicitly at very advanced levels. When done right - and you can feel it - this adds a whole lot of pace and spin.

I was watching Philippoussis win the Hall of Fame tournament a few days ago... his serve is a perfect example of using the body to advantage, IMO.

I agree with you 100% especially with #3. I think too many beginners think that you should jump while hitting the ball because that's what it looks like the pros are doing. In actuallity they are pushing so hard against the ground that their toes end up being in the air. If you can serve without the knee bend then you can add it later to your service motion for extra power.

I learned to serve first with the toss and shoulder rotation. Then I learned to coil up using knee bend and launching my weight behind the ball. Even though I push up from the ground with my legs my toes might only leave the ground a tiny bit if at all.

I also think a consistent toss is also key to getting it in.

 

[papa]

My serve has had the greatest improvements after I made the following fixes:

1. Being totally relaxed during the serve motion. This has even improved my toss - more so than all the adjustments to how I hold the ball and when exactly I let go of it.

2. Opening out the chest completely. I think there's a difference between this and rotating the shoulders. Rotating the shoulders without opening the chest doesn't do much for me, whereas opening the chest fully lets me put a lot of "body" into the serve. Opening the chest makes me take the racquet back, but I don't do the backscratch or even think about dropping the racquet. This also loads the legs, so the knees get slightly flexed. I never deliberately flex the knees.

3. Launching into the ball with the body. This is a forward and upward movement, which I think causes the "jump". If I try to jump into the serve, the effect is miserable. It's better not to think about the legs - just unwind into the serve.

4. Pronating the arm before contact. Well, there are many schools of thought here, even on this board, and I now believe this needs to be done explicitly at very advanced levels. When done right - and you can feel it - this adds a whole lot of pace and spin.

I was watching Philippoussis win the Hall of Fame tournament a few days ago... his serve is a perfect example of using the body to advantage, IMO.

Good stuff as long as many realize that one doesn't have to "leave" the ground/jump to have an effective serve - #3. In my opinion the jump aspect almost comes naturaly when the other components come together. Age also plays an important factor here so don't get hung up on leaving the ground.

 

[donnyz89]

I don't agree with this. I find it's actually the opposite as truth. If you are able to push off into the serve with your back foot (platform serve, anyway), you have not completed enough of a weight shift forward and thus will not get pace and penetration. When I was doing this a while ago, it also caused inconsistancy, lack of spin, and pain in the right leg. Ensuring no force came from the back leg fixed everything.

This is all, however, almost completely irrelevent if you were talking strictly about a pinpoint service stance.

well... from what I heard, my coach was at a national coaches meeting kinda thing, junior developement directors from all over the country, and i guess one of the coaches had like an hour speech on serve and comparing serves of the top pros and breaking down every move and thats what they came up with. not my word.

 

[TennsDog]

well... from what I heard, my coach was at a national coaches meeting kinda thing, junior developement directors from all over the country, and i guess one of the coaches had like an hour speech on serve and comparing serves of the top pros and breaking down every move and thats what they came up with. not my word.

They may have been talking strictly about pinpoint service stance, as that is the predominant stance used in today's game, especially in young players. The mechanics of platform and pinpoint stances are different, such that you get a more smooth and continuous weight shift with a platform stance. With the pinpoint, you shift your weight forward as you toss, then kind of stop and your weight is more or less stationary (you may be leaning forward as you prepare for contact). In this case, yes, you will need to push off more with your back leg to ensure that you get your weight going forward into the ball. Otherwise you'll just be going up and won't get as much drive through contact.

 

[guedoguedo]

tennsdog can u post a vid of your serve

 

[TennsDog]

I already have.

http://members.aol.com/mkbennetts/PAP/serve2.mov

There are two more serves if you remove the 2 from the end of the URL.