I heard that the grass was still slowed down a bit after 1994, but still fast enough though. It was because the 1994 final between Pete and Goran was boring.2001 the Final was Ivanisevic/Rafter and the very next year it was Hewitt/Nalbandian. That should tell you something about how much they slowed it down in 2002.
Yes.Did the Wimbledon grass really slow down as much as people make it out to be?
I think Hewitt would have won had he made the final in 2001 instead though. He was good at playing on faster grass, it helped his counterpunching game -- and he enjoyed playing S&V players.Yes.
There's a reason that the only guy on tour who took the majority of his groundies inside the baseline was the only baseliner to win the tournament the entire graphite era, until the great slowdown occurred. Nobody who relied on patient play could survive Big W from the mid-80's till 2002. The power was too high, and the bounces too low. Staying back was as effective as staying home.
I think Hewitt would have won had he made the final in 2001 instead though. He was good at playing on faster grass, it helped his counterpunching game -- and he enjoyed playing S&V players.
He has beaten Sampras multiple times on faster grass (Queens 2000, 2001) and he's also beaten less-renowned S&V experts Tim Henman and Goran Ivanisevic (the same year he won Wimbledon).
I don't know about the current players, but I'd always give Federer and Murray a chance on faster grass.
Exactly. It played into his strengths, which is exactly why he complained about (and did relatively poorly at) the Australian Open as opposed to Wimbledon and the USO.Hewitt was the best counterpuncher I've ever seen. I think the faster the surface, the better it was for him.
Not sure how Hewitt comes into play, here. He wasn't knocking on the doorstep or anything. He lost to a journeyman serve and volleyer in the 4th. He was complete non-factor at Wimbledon until they slowed it down, then boom, overnight champion.I think Hewitt would have won had he made the final in 2001 instead though. He was good at playing on faster grass, it helped his counterpunching game -- and he enjoyed playing S&V players.
He has beaten Sampras multiple times on faster grass (Queens 2000, 2001) and he's also beaten less-renowned S&V experts Tim Henman and Goran Ivanisevic (the same year he won Wimbledon).
I don't know about the current players, but I'd always give Federer and Murray a chance on faster grass.
Because he was one of the baseliners that made the final the next year..Not sure how Hewitt comes into play, here. He wasn't knocking on the doorstep or anything. He lost to a journeyman serve and volleyer in the 4th. He was complete non-factor at Wimbledon until they slowed it down, then boom, overnight champion.
Not sure how Hewitt comes into play, here. He wasn't knocking on the doorstep or anything. He lost to a journeyman serve and volleyer in the 4th. He was complete non-factor at Wimbledon until they slowed it down, then boom, overnight champion.
We could easily say the same about Wimbledon 2013 & 2016. Andy Murray faced someone ranked outside the top 16 in the SF in 2013 and in 2016 he got Berdych, seeded 10th in the world. Hewitt defeated Henman, who was seeded 5th at the time (and achieved his career high ranking of 4th after Wimbledon).His draw certainly helped. Only 2 top 16 seeds making it to the 4th round. When we say the draw is opening up, and we describe a girl who puts out on any day of the week that ends in a y as easy.
Well, let us then say that wimbledon 2002 opened its legs wide with an ease that made all easy girls blush in shame.
We could easily say the same about Wimbledon 2013 & 2016. Andy Murray faced someone ranked outside the top 16 in the SF in 2013 and in 2016 he got Berdych, seeded 10th in the world. Hewitt defeated Henman, who was seeded 5th at the time (and achieved his career high ranking of 4th after Wimbledon).
Nice to know how desperate you are that you use sexualized analogies to help prove your "point" (or in every case to do with you, a non-point).
But it matters about actual draws. Was Murray's draw really that much harder both times? Not really, so stop interjecting your opinion on the matter when you're bitter there's still a debate about the two players careers (and perhaps there always will be).in 2016 10 top 16 made it to the 4th round, 6 of 8 in the quarters. in 2013 it was 6 and then 5. So no, we couldn't say the same.
What point? That they slowed down the courts? Sure they did, but my point was that one of those players would have most likely made the final ANYWAY.Yeah, yeah, I conflated years. Still, it shows the salient point.
But it matters about actual draws. Was Murray's draw really that much harder both times? Not really, so stop interjecting your opinion on the matter when you're bitter there's still a debate about the two players careers (and perhaps there always will be).
In the beginning, Agassi and Sampras playing in Wimbledon 1993. How fast was that grass compared to the more ''modern'' grass.
Did the Wimbledon grass really slow down as much as people make it out to be?
Because I know why you're posting in this thread. If you in fact did like Hewitt, why did you post a fact that went against him instead of favoring him? It isn't the best time to play pretend.somebody asked about Hewitt winning Wimbledon. I posted a fact about that wimbledon - with some colourful metaphor. You're bringing up murray.
It wasn't countering anything, you were just saying 2002 Wimbledon was weak so I responded in jest by bringing Murray's Wimbledon titles into question. I sincerely believe Murray would have won his 2 titles and Hewitt would have won his 1 no matter the "competition" (although realistically with Pete Sampras or Roger Federer around they both win 0).Dope Reign said:I actually like Hewitt. There were two 16 seeds in the 4th round. That's just a fact. Posting that fact as a counter to the idea that Hewitt won primarily because of slower conditions, is not some tactic to devalue Hewitt's title. The reason you think I'm doing that is because that's something you would do.
It's incredibly frustrating given Hewitt is devalued a lot around here for taking advantage of a "transitional period" (before I heard this nonsense I never used the term myself, but now it has become an interchangeable part of my vocabulary on this forum) because he was actually a decent player -- a lot of the people I have interactions with didn't watch him until he was a shell of his former self. I am not saying you did not watch him, but that dealing with people like that wears off after a while.Dope Reign said:I don't care if people think Hewitt and Murray are comparable. (unless it's insecure fed fans trying to elevate Hewitt status)
In the beginning, Agassi and Sampras playing in Wimbledon 1993. How fast was that grass compared to the more ''modern'' grass.
Did the Wimbledon grass really slow down as much as people make it out to be?
Because I know why you're posting in this thread. If you in fact did like Hewitt, why did you post a fact that went against him instead of favoring him? It isn't the best time to play pretend.
In the beginning, Agassi and Sampras playing in Wimbledon 1993. How fast was that grass compared to the more ''modern'' grass.
Did the Wimbledon grass really slow down as much as people make it out to be?
It should. But it won't.2001 the Final was Ivanisevic/Rafter and the very next year it was Hewitt/Nalbandian. That should tell you something about how much they slowed it down in 2002.
Pioline made the US and Wimbledon finals in the 90s.2001 the Final was Ivanisevic/Rafter and the very next year it was Hewitt/Nalbandian. That should tell you something about how much they slowed it down in 2002.
Sampras called Hewitt a victim of his time. He really respected his game.Because I know why you're posting in this thread. If you in fact did like Hewitt, why did you post a fact that went against him instead of favoring him? It isn't the best time to play pretend.
It wasn't countering anything, you were just saying 2002 Wimbledon was weak so I responded in jest by bringing Murray's Wimbledon titles into question. I sincerely believe Murray would have won his 2 titles and Hewitt would have won his 1 no matter the "competition" (although realistically with Pete Sampras or Roger Federer around they both win 0).
It's incredibly frustrating given Hewitt is devalued a lot around here for taking advantage of a "transitional period" (before I heard this nonsense I never used the term myself, but now it has become an interchangeable part of my vocabulary on this forum) because he was actually a decent player -- a lot of the people I have interactions with didn't watch him until he was a shell of his former self. I am not saying you did not watch him, but that dealing with people like that wears off after a while.
Yes.
There's a reason that the only guy on tour who took the majority of his groundies inside the baseline was the only baseliner to win the tournament the entire graphite era, until the great slowdown occurred. Nobody who relied on patient play could survive Big W from the mid-80's till 2002. The power was too high, and the bounces too low. Staying back was as effective as staying home.
Must been the racquetPioline made the US and Wimbledon finals in the 90s.
Pioline made the US and Wimbledon finals in the 90s.