Did you notice there was no irony? lol. It was an error! Corrected: "Remember that, given an individual's interpretation of greatness requires context to be meaningful (just like statistics), it is impossible to force people to accept your definition, if it is not subjective."
The consensus is that greatness is subjective by its very definition. There is no debate here to be had at all. Greatness is up to the individual. Nobody can force their definition of greatness onto other people, if it is not subjective. Nobody can make greatness objective. If you don't know this, the outcome you want is to understand what greatness means.
An illogical argument makes another illogical argument logical in your fantasy world! Where Phoenix* also thinks Greatest means Most Insignificant!
Only in your fantasy world! Where Greatest means Most Insignificant!
Fabresque... Deep in his fantasy world! Where he thinks Greatest means Most Insignificant!
Only in your fantasy world! Where Greatest means Most Insignificant!
Thrust.... Deep in his fantasy world! Where he thinks Greatest means Most Insignificant!
This is the reality (with recent edits):
This is not a GOAT debate thread, it is a discussion about the meaning of greatness to each individual. This is an example of discussing context (global outreach, era, conditions, competition all relevant context of statistics) that contribute to the whole package of greatness (to me). This is only a small fraction of relevant context to me.
My beliefs and opinions of what greatness means are up for debate. This is so I can become greater as an individual. We should not decide our values by popular opinion, but this tells me my belief's and opinions are widely shared (unlike many suggest!). We need to be able to challenge our bias and discuss context.
I decided to google some polls of the greatest sportsmen of all time. This is the first poll I opened and was conducted when Djokovic already had 24 majors. Federer Top 10. Federer is usually Top 10, and as high up as Top 7. He is one of the immortal GOAT sportsmen that ever lived! (let alone tennis!) He is ranked right next to Pele, Lebron, Bo Jackson, Messi, Ronaldo, Usain Bolt, Jesse Owens and a bit below Michael Phelps! Usually little mention of Djokovic or Nadal on many lists of Top 50. (sorry to offend!) Federer transcended tennis to a completely different level of greatness! Djokovic is nowhere near the consensus tennis GOAT. (and never will be!)
If posters want to play with numbers, I have better ones lol. If your only arguments are the numbers, it rules you out automatically! It doesn't matter anyway, numbers alone, clearly do not define sporting greatness, in the minds of the people, the sport exists to serve in the first place! Those who argue otherwise: Wouldn't even have their tennis wiki stats, to cite constantly (without context), if the matches were not relevant context!
Federer has plenty of arguments to still be your tennis GOAT, despite what many would try to have you believe. Apparently, nobody cares about Djokovic's faulty Top 10 wins over 90's gen, faulty ELO stats. (Or Djokovic's supposedly "strong" competition from players older than him that were from Federer's era/generational talent. Players that Federer also played when they were his age, or when they were younger than he was!) Federer clearly had the toughest competition out of the Big 3 (it's extremely difficult to argue otherwise!).
Let's also not forget that Federer built his game to dominate, in a transitional era, where the conditions were changing rapidly! That versatile game with his one-handed backhand won him 11/16 majors in his record peak age stretch and 16/27 majors with a career grand slam in his record prime age stretch.
He managed records like 237 consecutive weeks at No.1, 18/19 consecutive finals, 23 consecutive semis, 36 consecutive QF, 5 straight Wimbledons and US Opens, the second channel slam since Bjorn Borg, 3 majors a year 3 times, all majors finals reached in a year 3 times, 24 straight finals won, 65 and 56 consecutive matches won on grass and hardcourt respectively, 7 consecutive finals won including his first final reached, 4 consecutive finals on his worst surface...(link insane win % during peak/prime stretches) and many more records (that are taking too long to list) and feats during his record prime stretch.
To me, that clearly indicates: Federer has the greatest peak and prime by the numbers! That's what matters most to me! That's what I saw for myself! I don't ask chatGPT! lol. I don't care about weak slams mid 30's! (much lower level)
Federer had extremely tough competition from younger ATG's when he was old. Federer played tennis from a different planet during his peak! It doesn't matter who you put in front of him lol. He would destroy every field! I love Federer's streak records. They were always his best records to me. This was because they were the most exciting to witness!
His records are simply amazing! This was dominance that has never been seen before. There are different numbers people should look at, besides total major count. That is if they want more than a shallow interpretation of a players career! The absolute fixation with total major count isnt healthy and doesn't do a great sport the justice it deserves.
Federer still won 20 slams! 6 more than the old record he broke! Oldest No.1 at not far off 37, making and almost winning a final (losing with huge age disadvantage against Djokovic with matchpoints) at Wimbledon at almost 38. He dominated his kryptonite late in his career (5yrs younger!) He has very strong losing efforts that would easily win slams the last 6 years (He was losing very close matches to Peak Djokovic and Nadal in his post prime/late prime! Huge Age Disadvantage!) I don't need career slams/weeks No.1 over weak fields (lower level is very noticeable!). Federer took his RG the only real chance he had!
Federer set all of these crazy streak/stretch records I listed earlier on at peak and prime age. This is the age that players almost always are at their best. The data shows this hasn't changed in recent times. The best players are aware of the aging curve. They use historical data that is good at predicting future performance based on age. It makes sense to me he didn't win as much, when he started leaving prime age. At this time conditions stabilised to support pure baseliners that were younger than him like Nadal and Djokovic! He still took the record weeks at No.1 ranking at almost 31 from peak Djokovic and Nadal. 2011 RG, 2012 W, 2011 USO were all epic fights at an age Djokovic was burnt out in 2017-2018!
I didn't even talk about Federer's playstyle/character yet! This is probably my favourite thing about Roger! GOAT forehand, serve not far off Sampras level, impeccable footwork, athleticism, impeccable volleys/overhead/smash/ backhand/lob, all court game, incredible speed, endurance, explosiveness, GOAT half volleys, tweeners over Djokovic's head that he applauds...beauty in tennis form! His aura, composure, keeping me constantly up at night in awe (on edge) in/with his matches, the emotion (fans too), his determination, discipline, consistency, crowd always loved him, work ethic, humanity, morality, inspiration, religious experience!, people lived through Roger's game (not his stats!), freakish reflexes...
I can't see the mental inferiority to the other Big 3 at all! He plays a high risk/reward game that requires perfect execution (perfect for dominance in changing conditions (versatility). This is totally different to being able to relax into longer rallies... Federer >> Djokovic on graas, Federer ~> Djokovic on HC, Sustained peak on clay > Djokovic....Much, much, more relevant context to discuss!) Until then, get out of here lol. You have 2-3 stats (totally laughable!) Ladies and gentlemen, Federer is the tennis GOAT who came from the "strong" era (to me)!
To enter a debate about greatness: The real definition must be used...
Greatness(subjective) = Greatness. Not fantasy definitions that have opposite meanings lol. Using: Greatness(objective) = More Insignificant! The opposite of greatness! Come back to reality if you want to debate in reality... Until then (for you): Federer is the GOAT!
I think it is you in a fantasy world, sir.Fabresque... Deep in his fantasy world! Where he thinks Greatest means Most Insignificant!
(Fabresque is falsely slandering me!) Very deep..... In Fabresque's fantasy world... He believes "Greatness" does not require subjectivity!
Statistics: DjokovicVery deep..... In Fabresque's fantasy world... He believes "Greatness does not require subjectivity!
This means he thinks: (Greatness = Objective)!
This means Greatness" has its opposite definition! Most Insignificant!
Illogical also means Logical!
He won't have anything meaningful to discuss the "Meaning of Greatness" until he uses the correct definitions of words!
To those that can't debate: (People Using an Opposite Definition of Greatness!): Federer is (i believe) the GOAT! (for you and me in reality!)
Fabresque has nothing meaningful to say about "Greatness"!
Fabresque's last chance to get an understanding from me (even if he is falsely slandering me a couple of posts back!)
In Reality: (Statistics without context = Objective). (for you and me in reality!)
) This is not a GOAT debate thread, it is a discussion about the meaning of greatness to each individual. This is an example of discussing context (global outreach, era, conditions, competition all relevant context of statistics) that contribute to the whole package for Federer to earn GOAT status (for me). This is only a small fraction of relevant context to me. GOAT! He still took the record weeks at No.1 ranking at almost 31 from peak Djokovic and Nadal! 2011 RG, 2012 W, 2011 USO were all epic fights at an age Djokovic was burnt out in 2017-2018! That's why I can talk about him with passion! You wanted to avoid this discussion the subjectivity of greatness demands? Embarrassing.... The opposite of GREATNESS! This is deceiving people! So you can control their belief's and opinions! Come back to reality, if you want to debate in reality!... Until then (for you): FEDERER is the GOAT! Why wouldn't he be? You have to change the definition of words, to support your laughably biased and illogical opinions and beliefs! You are spreading misinformation! (without a disclaimer eg. obvious trolling) You are denigrating my hero (Roger/others) deceitfully in a place we want to discuss our hobby! I will keep calling it out! (if able/my belief) Now everyone who reads this knows! Please try to be ethical! Greatness demands it! Tennis and/or forums (humanity!) demand it! Otherwise everything becomes more insignificant! The embarrassing argument to justify this behaviour is illogical: One illogical argument makes another illogical argument logical! Fantasy land nonsense! I win this debate by being ethical and logical! Long post... The words flowed easily enough... (Because I believed in them! ) Next chapter... Highest difficulty of competition related circumstances unrelated to the player? Federer > Nadal >/>> Djokovic? (to me?)
In reality: Opposite meaning of this sentence! Federer is your GOAT!!!
(I wonder if he will apologise? These guys have not been helping Djokovic's reputation... Coordinated? Pretty great lengths of propaganda here....)
Absolutely.
Greatness is peak fed floating around on a fast HC destroying everyone in his path. Or Nadal bulldozing everyone at RG, regardless of opposition. Or peak Djokovic being an absolute wall on Rod Laver arena.
Tbf Federer didn’t really play in the 2020-2023 clown era and barely threatened during the initial weak 2014-2016 years where Djokovic started to dominate. Djokovic inflated his numbers during these weaker times in the absence of a prime fed or Nadal. It is what it is.
Tbf does anyone really care about Djokovic’s inflation wins since 2020? Last real significant tennis moments feel like 2018/2019 Wimbledon where he pulled off Houdini act to luckily win 2/2. You can pile up weak slam one after another but wins over Berretini, Tsitsipas and Kyrgios playing pong tennis don’t tend to move the masses.
You’re doing god’s work. “He won the most, so he is the best” is rather simplistic, childish thinking. Most tennis followers can witness with own eyes what has been transpiring in the last 4-5 years.
Absolutely.
Spot on. Slams won during your absolute best is a better metric than hoovering up lower level wins in your 30s as you decline.
GOAT! He still took the record weeks at No.1 ranking at almost 31 from peak Djokovic and Nadal! 2011 RG, 2012 W, 2011 USO were all epic fights at an age Djokovic was burnt out in 2017-2018!
I'm just a regular Federer fan, like you. We both knew it was rubbish! I saw it happen for a while now... The Lew stats etc...I read a lot of old threads. Itrium84 was propping up Lew stats! They are all useless by the definition of "greatness"!
That is the smackdown in the very first answer now close the thread
Very deep..... In NASs fantasy world... He thinks: "Greatness" does not require subjectivity!
In Reality: (Statistics without context = Objective). (for you and me in reality!) 
Are you going to quote the same message for the third time too in the coming days? I think that would really show how little you care about someone's greatness lol...Only in your fantasy world! Where Greatest means Most Insignificant!
Translation: You are eternally ass-hurt over Federer never being a GOAT player because he lacked all the necessary gifts, insight and training to win the Grand Slam, and thus become a GOAT player.
Agreed, and judging the butchered writing patterns, he comes off like an alternate account of one of the worst TTW members / Federer butt-smoochers well known around here.
Can you find words now to suit your bias? The powers that be are breathing down your neck. You are getting shut down.
"Regarding tennis - I think a plausible argument can be made that Federer’s peak years - 2004-2007 - a four year span, contained the highest quality and most dominant tennis for the most consistent period we’ve ever seen."
You should be a judge in freestyle ice-skating events.
Promises, promises....
In reality: Silentchimera believes proof reading improves post quality. In reality: Silentchimera proof reads their own written work. In reality: silentchimera acknowledges logic/ethics should guide all discussions about the meaning of greatness. In reality: Perfect discussions only exist in fantasy land.
