What else can I do to improve my doubles game?

[EddieBrock]

I've been working hard on my serve and only double fault once or twice a match now and generally hold serve. My return on both sides has been rock solid and I'm being a bit more aggressive at the net. My partner and opponents have even complimented me on how consistent and solid my shots are. Yet I've lost every doubles match so far this year. I feel like I'm playing about as well as I can and much better than previous years but my record is worse.

In singles when I lose I can usually point to something I need to improve. Like my opponent kept attacking my 2nd serve and I didn't defend my backhand well enough or they had a serve I couldn't get back or something. Here it's like we're in every game, have multiple deuces in many of them and always lose. I've lost 2 in match tiebreaks and 1 with 1 break of serve.

It seems like the points we lose are (1) where they poach my return even if I hit it well. (2) They're both at the net and I hit a lob too short or miss it long (3) Those rapid fire points at the net and ones where you're just reacting or ones where you can't put the volley away and have to place it.

Technically I think my worst shot is my lob. I'm great at feeding people overheads with a slice, but in a match I either hit them a sitter or hit it long.

Other than that I don't know what to work on to get better at these doubles points. Obviously I'm going to keep working on my serve and don't have pro level groundstrokes or volleys, but what would provide the best benefit for positioning and winning these close games? Is there a drill I can do with a friend or coach? I'm both happy I'm playing better and not getting tight and frustrated I'm not winning.

 

[Purestriker]

Sounds like you are playing great doubles opponents that using their serves to setup wining points. What level are you playing? Have you tried chipping the return with a short angle? Chip lob? Have you tried following your return in?

 

[LeeD]

Seems if you keep losing, you need to get better with every shot, use them more often, and upgrade your partner

 

[nyta2]

I've been working hard on my serve and only double fault once or twice a match now and generally hold serve.

do you serve & stayback, or s&v?

My return on both sides has been rock solid and I'm being a bit more aggressive at the net. My partner and opponents have even complimented me on how consistent and solid my shots are. Yet I've lost every doubles match so far this year. I feel like I'm playing about as well as I can and much better than previous years but my record is worse.

blame your partner? ;p (are they poaching, faking, or hitting dinky serves to opponents strengths that are getting you blasted at net?)
or blame your opponents (ie. you could be playing better, but you're also playing good opponents).

In singles when I lose I can usually point to something I need to improve. Like my opponent kept attacking my 2nd serve and I didn't defend my backhand well enough or they had a serve I couldn't get back or something. Here it's like we're in every game, have multiple deuces in many of them and always lose. I've lost 2 in match tiebreaks and 1 with 1 break of serve.

It seems like the points we lose are (1) where they poach my return even if I hit it well.

don't be so predictable... while my cc drive is my main return... i also hit lobs, chips, dippers, or just blast the net person

(2) They're both at the net and I hit a lob too short or miss it long

focus on hitting high... my mentallity is, "i want them to hit this overhead... but let's see what height i can make them hit it from..." height in turn gives you depth.

(3) Those rapid fire points at the net and ones where you're just reacting or ones where you can't put the volley away and have to place it.

are you split stepping (or at least have fast hoppy feet at net)?
where are you targeting? in general i don't think i about "putting the volley away" (if i do, i overhit), i think about making solid contact, and try to decisively choose 1 of 5 targets

Technically I think my worst shot is my lob. I'm great at feeding people overheads with a slice, but in a match I either hit them a sitter or hit it long.

think high, not "over their head" ... you want them to hit it, just make it hard (by making it drop from a very high distance)

Other than that I don't know what to work on to get better at these doubles points. Obviously I'm going to keep working on my serve and don't have pro level groundstrokes or volleys, but what would provide the best benefit for positioning and winning these close games? Is there a drill I can do with a friend or coach?

my two favorite drills:
* volley volley with a partner
* play singles doubles (eg. serve&return cc only, but server must s&v)

I'm both happy I'm playing better and not getting tight and frustrated I'm not winning.

winning depends on too many things to be a good metric for improvement... winning is a combination of things beyond hitting a good serve, volley, groundstroke (conditioning, shot selection, pattern recognition, choosing the right strategy, variety, execution under pressure, etc...)

 

[eah123]

Stop focusing on stroke production. You have what it takes. Focus on positioning and tactics.
Read these 2 books: Dynamite Doubles, and On The Ball: Doubles Tactics

 

[mucat]

(1) Are you groundstrokes telegraphing? It is very rare so I doubt it. It could also be you grounstrokes are not good enough.
(2) Topspin lob or hit dipping topspin goundstrokes to the middle. Make sure your opponent has to hit up from your groundstrokes, don't give them anything to hit down.
(3) These ones are unpredictable. Ideally, you should win half of these. Hit something solid back. You are all crowding the net, anything solid and quality will be difficult to react to it. Again, try to make them hit up.

In doubled, when you have no empty space to hit to, hit between your opponent, and hit it hard.

 

[Dartagnan64]

1) don’t be predictable with returns. Try to take them earlier. Go DTL a few times to keep net man honest. Resort to lob returns if you can’t keep the poacher off you.
2) dippers down the middle are the alternate tactic against two up.
3) anticipation is key along with happy feet. And generally these rapid fire exchanges all come down to the same thing - first person to hit a shoulder high ball loses. Don’t be that person.

 

[BallChaser]

Why don't you ask your doubles partners for their wish-list about you? Few players are very vocal about their partners and others don't say much trying to be positive and encouraging. They may still know a lot about what you can improve on.

Asking your opponents after the match for what their strategy was could be super helpful, too.

 

[LuckyR]

I've been working hard on my serve and only double fault once or twice a match now and generally hold serve. My return on both sides has been rock solid and I'm being a bit more aggressive at the net. My partner and opponents have even complimented me on how consistent and solid my shots are. Yet I've lost every doubles match so far this year. I feel like I'm playing about as well as I can and much better than previous years but my record is worse.

In singles when I lose I can usually point to something I need to improve. Like my opponent kept attacking my 2nd serve and I didn't defend my backhand well enough or they had a serve I couldn't get back or something. Here it's like we're in every game, have multiple deuces in many of them and always lose. I've lost 2 in match tiebreaks and 1 with 1 break of serve.

It seems like the points we lose are (1) where they poach my return even if I hit it well. (2) They're both at the net and I hit a lob too short or miss it long (3) Those rapid fire points at the net and ones where you're just reacting or ones where you can't put the volley away and have to place it.

Technically I think my worst shot is my lob. I'm great at feeding people overheads with a slice, but in a match I either hit them a sitter or hit it long.

Other than that I don't know what to work on to get better at these doubles points. Obviously I'm going to keep working on my serve and don't have pro level groundstrokes or volleys, but what would provide the best benefit for positioning and winning these close games? Is there a drill I can do with a friend or coach? I'm both happy I'm playing better and not getting tight and frustrated I'm not winning.

I am assuming that you prefer to play from the baseline, as opposed to the net. I base that on your comment on lobbing. In other words if you are being forced to consider a lob because both of your opponents are at the net, then you aren't playing aggressive enough (which would put you at the net and therefore not in lob territory).

As to having your return poached, some of that is unavoidable, but if it is happening routinely, you need to go after the netman early in the game, early in the set. Even if you lose the point, you'll do better later in the match by giving him something to think about.

 

[Dartagnan64]

As to having your return poached, some of that is unavoidable, but if it is happening routinely, you need to go after the netman early in the game, early in the set. Even if you lose the point, you'll do better later in the match by giving him something to think about.

I think this is important. After the first poach I make a conscious decision as an ad returner to take the next inside FH return right at him or the next second serve return off either wing. Show me you can put that thing away. If not, then dominance hasn't been established and we can continue our cat and mouse game.

 

[EddieBrock]

Lots of great advice from everyone here. I really appreciate it!

1) don’t be predictable with returns. Try to take them earlier. Go DTL a few times to keep net man honest. Resort to lob returns if you can’t keep the poacher off you.
2) dippers down the middle are the alternate tactic against two up.
3) anticipation is key along with happy feet. And generally these rapid fire exchanges all come down to the same thing - first person to hit a shoulder high ball loses. Don’t be that person.

I'm definitely too predictable with my returns. All my returns are the best, deep shot I can hit cross court. In singles or when I'm playing for fun I'll do drop shot or angle returns, but in doubles I feel so much pressure to hit the "high %" shot that unless the guy is poaching every point I go cross court all the time. Even when the net man is close and poaching I'm kind of afraid my lob will miss or get crushed. Once I tried a drop shot/angle BH return on the ad side and my partner said something like "you've got a good drive backhand. Why are you fooling around with that?"

Why don't you ask your doubles partners for their wish-list about you? Few players are very vocal about their partners and others don't say much trying to be positive and encouraging. They may still know a lot about what you can improve on.

Asking your opponents after the match for what their strategy was could be super helpful, too.

I've done that. They also usually say something like "it just came down to a few big points" I even asked my last partner "what do you think I should work on with a coach?" and he just said something like making those shots on the key moments.

Something my opponent said recently was it seemed like I was more comfortable with faster balls than slower ones. Like if they gave me too much time to think I'd be more likely to miss it. Even at the net. I know sometimes I'll miss these volleys that just float with no pace.

I think this is important. After the first poach I make a conscious decision as an ad returner to take the next inside FH return right at him or the next second serve return off either wing. Show me you can put that thing away. If not, then dominance hasn't been established and we can continue our cat and mouse game.

It isn't bad sportsmanship to go at the opposing net player? These guys are often so close to the net I'm also afraid I'm going to hit him. Especially off some of these weak 2nd serves.

 

[Steady Eddy]

It isn't bad sportsmanship to go at the opposing net player? These guys are often so close to the net I'm also afraid I'm going to hit him. Especially off some of these weak 2nd serves.

I don't think so, especially if they're always winning. But be aggressive with what you call a "weak 2nd serve". Don't just be satisfied with hitting it back. Try angling it sharply for a winner. Or go after the net man, but with accuracy, not pace, hit a crisp shot to his right hip. That often draws the error. But send the message, "You might as well go for it on 2nd serve, pitty-pat serves won't be tolerated."

 

[Cindysphinx]

It sounds like your doubles transition game is lacking. If you find yourself having to lob while pinned at the baseline, that means you aren’t comfortable coming to net. Which means you may not have a reliable first volley.

If that’s true, then spend a couple of years developing a textbook volley. When you can take balls out of the air from anywhere on the court and at any height, you’ll be beating people.

 

[BallChaser]

I've done that. They also usually say something like "it just came down to a few big points" I even asked my last partner "what do you think I should work on with a coach?" and he just said something like making those shots on the key moments.

Something my opponent said recently was it seemed like I was more comfortable with faster balls than slower ones. Like if they gave me too much time to think I'd be more likely to miss it. Even at the net. I know sometimes I'll miss these volleys that just float with no pace.

Your partners' comments are not really helpful. They sound like just blaming you on losing the tight matches.
What your opponent said was helpful. For groundstroke, check if you are swinging with relaxed arm. Those who swing with tense arm often have a issue dealing with slow balls. To kill floaters, make sure that you watch the ball well and run through after hitting.

 

[EddieBrock]

It sounds like your doubles transition game is lacking. If you find yourself having to lob while pinned at the baseline, that means you aren’t comfortable coming to net. Which means you may not have a reliable first volley.

If that’s true, then spend a couple of years developing a textbook volley. When you can take balls out of the air from anywhere on the court and at any height, you’ll be beating people.

My first volley is usually pretty good. It's the shot afterwards when I'm at the net that I'll miss sometimes.

Your partners' comments are not really helpful. They sound like just blaming you on losing the tight matches.
What your opponent said was helpful. For groundstroke, check if you are swinging with relaxed arm. Those who swing with tense arm often have a issue dealing with slow balls. To kill floaters, make sure that you watch the ball well and run through after hitting.

It could definitely be that I'm too tense. I think I'm more relaxed now, but I don't know for sure.

 

[Dartagnan64]

It isn't bad sportsmanship to go at the opposing net player? These guys are often so close to the net I'm also afraid I'm going to hit him. Especially off some of these weak 2nd serves.

I only do it against poaching players. Not the guy rooted 1 foot from the net covering the alley. That guy generally wins a lot of those confrontations otherwise he wouldn't stand there. That guy I'll just pass him CC or go over him. I hit a pretty mean moon ball topspin FH.

But if the net guy is active and looking to poach middle balls, I'll go at him hoping to catch him poaching while I get the DTL winner. It's a cat and mouse tactic to ensure the CC return remains open to me as a returner.

 

[ServeBot]

Record your play then afterwards go back and look at the stats of the match. % first serve/second serve in and win %, winners, unforced errors, errors forced, double faults, points won at net etc. If you do this for a couple matches, you will find something that stands out. Perhaps you are winning too few points on your second serve return because you aren't returning aggressively enough (as an example). The numbers can be very eye opening!

 

[StringStrungStrang]

Not sure but double is more about a strategy teamwork. IF you do not have a strategy, develop one with your partner. You need to know what the other person is doing. Playing well does not equal winning. Winning is not only playing to your strengths, but taking advantage of your opponents weaknesses, while hiding your own. IF people are able to poach your shots then you need to work on better passing shots and mixing in down the line shots to keep them honest. Serving is not just to get it in, but to have a purpose, wide, up the T or to your opponents weakness. OVERHEAD. This is he shot I see more rec players miss. Court awareness. I beat physically better players all the time, because I understand positioning, placement, and strategy better.

 

[fuzz nation]

It isn't bad sportsmanship to go at the opposing net player? These guys are often so close to the net I'm also afraid I'm going to hit him. Especially off some of these weak 2nd serves.

I'm never wild about going right at a player in that scenario because we can't hit much lower than at the height of that opponent's stomach. I also never condone hitting up around an opponent's chest or head. But when that opponent is right on top of the net like that and you've got an easy second serve return coming, that's when you could be easily guiding the ball over that opponent, since you've got soooo much space behind him (or her) to land the ball.

When an opponent is too close to the net like that, I like to let my partner know before the point starts that I'm going to be lobbing to that open space if I get to return a second serve. That way we can both jump up into the driver's seat as a team right away.

Practice your lob - you need it!! If you're letting your wrist "release" when you try to lob, maybe think of keeping your arm and racquet more firm so that they can work as one unit - similar to a volley. Use your legs and core to do the primary work of lifting and guiding that ball, but don't use a big back swing.

I love the cue of imagining an eight foot fence on the service line in your opponent's court. Guide your lobs over that imaginary fence. If you're on the practice court, you can have a hitting pal feed you balls from their service line and after each feed, that pal can then hold his arms up to give you a small portion of that fence. Your lobs should clear his hands. Have him feed from different spots to different areas in your court to make you lob from different spots and also hit some lobs on the move. And if you're not lobbing with a continental grip, I recommend it.

One more general doubles thought: Pay attention to the grain of the rallies either in your own doubles matches or when other folks are playing on a court. You'll be able to see how the team that typically has the advantage is the one that keeps the ball low and forces the other guys to hit up. You and your partner want to be hitting down more often than hitting up. If your opponents keep their shots low, be aware, stay patient, and respond with low shots of your own that are under their "kill zone". When they cough up a higher ball, you can pop it to daylight or zip it through their feet.

Again, I'm not a fan of body shots or head-hunting out there, but hitting an opponent on the feet or maybe their shins is perfectly acceptable in my book when playing competitive doubles.

 

[LuckyR]

I'm never wild about going right at a player in that scenario because we can't hit much lower than at the height of that opponent's stomach. I also never condone hitting up around an opponent's chest or head. But when that opponent is right on top of the net like that and you've got an easy second serve return coming, that's when you could be easily guiding the ball over that opponent, since you've got soooo much space behind him (or her) to land the ball.

When an opponent is too close to the net like that, I like to let my partner know before the point starts that I'm going to be lobbing to that open space if I get to return a second serve. That way we can both jump up into the driver's seat as a team right away.

Practice your lob - you need it!! If you're letting your wrist "release" when you try to lob, maybe think of keeping your arm and racquet more firm so that they can work as one unit - similar to a volley. Use your legs and core to do the primary work of lifting and guiding that ball, but don't use a big back swing.

I love the cue of imagining an eight foot fence on the service line in your opponent's court. Guide your lobs over that imaginary fence. If you're on the practice court, you can have a hitting pal feed you balls from their service line and after each feed, that pal can then hold his arms up to give you a small portion of that fence. Your lobs should clear his hands. Have him feed from different spots to different areas in your court to make you lob from different spots and also hit some lobs on the move. And if you're not lobbing with a continental grip, I recommend it.

One more general doubles thought: Pay attention to the grain of the rallies either in your own doubles matches or when other folks are playing on a court. You'll be able to see how the team that typically has the advantage is the one that keeps the ball low and forces the other guys to hit up. You and your partner want to be hitting down more often than hitting up. If your opponents keep their shots low, be aware, stay patient, and respond with low shots of your own that are under their "kill zone". When they cough up a higher ball, you can pop it to daylight or zip it through their feet.

Again, I'm not a fan of body shots or head-hunting out there, but hitting an opponent on the feet or maybe their shins is perfectly acceptable in my book when playing competitive doubles.

There is not only nothing wrong with going after netmen off of weak second serves, it is the correct play. Now when I say "go after", I don't mean: strike him with the ball, I mean hit the ball past him.

 

[StringStrungStrang]

There is not only nothing wrong with going after netmen off of weak second serves, it is the correct play. Now when I say "go after", I don't mean: strike him with the ball, I mean hit the ball past him.

Agreed. Going up the line in doubles is fair game. They can always play back if they don't feel comfortable. I definitely don't want to hit them, rather pass them or force an error. Lobbing is also an under utilized skill.

 

[Jono123]

I've been working hard on my serve and only double fault once or twice a match now and generally hold serve. My return on both sides has been rock solid and I'm being a bit more aggressive at the net. My partner and opponents have even complimented me on how consistent and solid my shots are. Yet I've lost every doubles match so far this year. I feel like I'm playing about as well as I can and much better than previous years but my record is worse.

In singles when I lose I can usually point to something I need to improve. Like my opponent kept attacking my 2nd serve and I didn't defend my backhand well enough or they had a serve I couldn't get back or something. Here it's like we're in every game, have multiple deuces in many of them and always lose. I've lost 2 in match tiebreaks and 1 with 1 break of serve.

It seems like the points we lose are (1) where they poach my return even if I hit it well. (2) They're both at the net and I hit a lob too short or miss it long (3) Those rapid fire points at the net and ones where you're just reacting or ones where you can't put the volley away and have to place it.

Technically I think my worst shot is my lob. I'm great at feeding people overheads with a slice, but in a match I either hit them a sitter or hit it long.

Other than that I don't know what to work on to get better at these doubles points. Obviously I'm going to keep working on my serve and don't have pro level groundstrokes or volleys, but what would provide the best benefit for positioning and winning these close games? Is there a drill I can do with a friend or coach? I'm both happy I'm playing better and not getting tight and frustrated I'm not winning.

Doubles Is all about net play. Your post indicates you mainly play from the Baseline. Take the net, improve your volleying and you'll start to win.

In respect to your return, the opposing net man should not be able to reach a cross-court, unless you are slicing and it's sitting up. Sounds like he is moving early to anticipate, so smash a few down the tram line to keep him honest.

 

[ChaelAZ]

It seems like the points we lose are (1) where they poach my return even if I hit it well. (2) They're both at the net and I hit a lob too short or miss it long (3) Those rapid fire points at the net and ones where you're just reacting or ones where you can't put the volley away and have to place it.

I dunno, but to me you answered your own question really. To me you already identified you can work on:

• Return of serve - While you say you hit a good return, it really isn't pressuring those opponents to move in and control the net. You may be hitting to close to middle and not getting the return wide enough cross court to start opening the middle or moving them around. You can use a short or deep ROS too as a way to keep them moving in close enough they have to pop up the ball, or deep to keep them off the net or making a high volley you can attack.
• Lobs - If you cannot consistenty move players who can command the net back, you surely need to work on that. It is a crucial part of dubs. Where singles there is a LOT of winning points side to side, moving opponents back and forward is super important to create space to place winners. If you are throwing up easy overheads for them, you gotta improve there.
• Consistency to not hit out - You say you get complimented, but we can always improve in touch, feel, and placement consistency overall. We know we lose shanked and tape points 100% of the time, where ANY ball in makes the opponent have to make another shot. In those rapid fire exchanges, being able to get the ball back, not always putting it away with pop, will get you points. The rapid fire volley and shot goes with the next, which is...
• Be ready for the next shot - You might think you are hitting a great ROS or shot, and mentally you are thinking it will win something, and that causes a pause or lapse in focus. Might not be apparent, but worth reviewing that you are ready. I know I catch myself watching the great shot I hit instead of moving without the ball and reacting to the opponent.
• Improve your own transition and net game - This is something I am working hard on myself. Getting from the baseline to the net to add pressure.

 

[fuzz nation]

There is not only nothing wrong with going after netmen off of weak second serves, it is the correct play. Now when I say "go after", I don't mean: strike him with the ball, I mean hit the ball past him.

Agree

 

[StringStrungStrang]

Agree

Got to keep the person at the net honest or they will destroy you!

 

[nyta2]

There is not only nothing wrong with going after netmen off of weak second serves, it is the correct play. Now when I say "go after", I don't mean: strike him with the ball, I mean hit the ball past him.

when i hit at the net person, i'm going for their right pec or right hip.
not trying to hurt them, but it's the highest percentage chance for me
if they are getting hit, it's their fault for not protecting themselves (eg. moving back)

 

[Fintft]

It seems like the points we lose are (1) where they poach my return even if I hit it well. (2) They're both at the net and I hit a lob too short or miss it long (3) Those rapid fire points at the net and ones where you're just reacting or ones where you can't put the volley away and have to place it.

Technically I think my worst shot is my lob. I'm great at feeding people overheads with a slice, but in a match I either hit them a sitter or hit it long.

I've re-started playing some doubles these past few weeks and funny I had similar experiences with you and here are my minor tips, for what they are worth:

1. People never poach my returns CC, also b/c I send a good number of my returns DTL, hard, where they have to defend for their life. Manly FHs but also some 1HBHs. Only one DTL ROS was volleyed back, during the last 2 hours of doubles and it was a more of shank. I was more worried as not to hit someone in the eye, although I warned them to defend at the net, b/c I was going DTL.

2. After missing some lobs, I went back to my bread of butter ground strokes, hard and with some top spin as per point 1 above and won much more of them than lobs.

3. I got decent at "rapid fire points at the net and ones where you're just reacting", lower position being key, but if push comes to shove, you can also sit back.

Good luck,
Marian

 

[LuckyR]

when i hit at the net person, i'm going for their right pec or right hip.
not trying to hurt them, but it's the highest percentage chance for me
if they are getting hit, it's their fault for not protecting themselves (eg. moving back)

I have no problem with how you play... especially because if you hit a shot hard enough to possibly actually hit my right pec off of a short groundstroke, it is going to land long if I dodge it (which I likely will).

 

[Traffic]

I have no problem with how you play... especially because if you hit a shot hard enough to possibly actually hit my right pec off of a short groundstroke, it is going to land long if I dodge it (which I likely will).

Then dodge it. If you can't dodge it, you're standing too close to the net. And if it's a topspin stroke, and it's chest level high near the net, that's barely 2' of net clearance. Hardly "head hunting" shot.

For a short ball at net, hitting at the opponent net player is the highest percentage shot. Usually I'll hit a driving slice.

I've played against opponent net persons that stand in place with racquet up in the ready position and I am setting up for an OH. I hit my OH and it landed between his legs. It could easily have hit his head, knees, shoes or 2 feet away from him. I don't stand my ground on a weakly hit ball. That's just smart tennis.

 

[Traffic]

I've been working hard on my serve and only double fault once or twice a match now and generally hold serve. My return on both sides has been rock solid and I'm being a bit more aggressive at the net. My partner and opponents have even complimented me on how consistent and solid my shots are. Yet I've lost every doubles match so far this year. I feel like I'm playing about as well as I can and much better than previous years but my record is worse.

In singles when I lose I can usually point to something I need to improve. Like my opponent kept attacking my 2nd serve and I didn't defend my backhand well enough or they had a serve I couldn't get back or something. Here it's like we're in every game, have multiple deuces in many of them and always lose. I've lost 2 in match tiebreaks and 1 with 1 break of serve.

It seems like the points we lose are (1) where they poach my return even if I hit it well. (2) They're both at the net and I hit a lob too short or miss it long (3) Those rapid fire points at the net and ones where you're just reacting or ones where you can't put the volley away and have to place it.

Technically I think my worst shot is my lob. I'm great at feeding people overheads with a slice, but in a match I either hit them a sitter or hit it long.

Other than that I don't know what to work on to get better at these doubles points. Obviously I'm going to keep working on my serve and don't have pro level groundstrokes or volleys, but what would provide the best benefit for positioning and winning these close games? Is there a drill I can do with a friend or coach? I'm both happy I'm playing better and not getting tight and frustrated I'm not winning.

So between 40+ and 18+, I was 4-3 record last year. For this year, 40+, I'm 0-7. I don't think I had 7 losses in 2 seasons.

I'd say many of the matches were against really good players. About half of them were my partner having a melt down. Two matches, my partner DF'd min twice on EVERY service game. I don't know how we win like that. Also, one partner had issues with his racquet/string. But waited until we were down 1-5 in the 2nd set to change racquets and we come back.

We've been plagued with injuries this season and so I've always been partnered with weaker partners (partnering with lower NTRP rated players). When things get tight, less experienced players tend to fold (DF, UE, playing timid...)

We should have a stronger and healthier 18+. Hoping for better results. In the meantime, I'm going to work on my support of my partner. Work on hitting lobs and also best way to return deep lobs.

 

[nyta2]

I have no problem with how you play... especially because if you hit a shot hard enough to possibly actually hit my right pec off of a short groundstroke, it is going to land long if I dodge it (which I likely will).

i have no doubt you'lll dodge, as i don't hit that hard anyway.... but that said, if you're looking to dodge my body shot, then you're less likely to be worrying about poaching...

 

[nyta2]

Then dodge it. If you can't dodge it, you're standing too close to the net. And if it's a topspin stroke, and it's chest level high near the net, that's barely 2' of net clearance. Hardly "head hunting" shot.

i'm 5'4"... so if i'm an athletic stance... i think that's barely clearing the net

For a short ball at net, hitting at the opponent net player is the highest percentage shot. Usually I'll hit a driving slice.

I've played against opponent net persons that stand in place with racquet up in the ready position and I am setting up for an OH. I hit my OH and it landed between his legs. It could easily have hit his head, knees, shoes or 2 feet away from him. I don't stand my ground on a weakly hit ball. That's just smart tennis.

it could also mean extreme trust/respect for you ability to aim OH at their feet
i'll never stand my ground with a 3.0 with a spazzy overhead... likely to lose an eye

 

[EddieBrock]

I dunno, but to me you answered your own question really. To me you already identified you can work on:

• Return of serve - While you say you hit a good return, it really isn't pressuring those opponents to move in and control the net. You may be hitting to close to middle and not getting the return wide enough cross court to start opening the middle or moving them around. You can use a short or deep ROS too as a way to keep them moving in close enough they have to pop up the ball, or deep to keep them off the net or making a high volley you can attack.
• Lobs - If you cannot consistenty move players who can command the net back, you surely need to work on that. It is a crucial part of dubs. Where singles there is a LOT of winning points side to side, moving opponents back and forward is super important to create space to place winners. If you are throwing up easy overheads for them, you gotta improve there.
• Consistency to not hit out - You say you get complimented, but we can always improve in touch, feel, and placement consistency overall. We know we lose shanked and tape points 100% of the time, where ANY ball in makes the opponent have to make another shot. In those rapid fire exchanges, being able to get the ball back, not always putting it away with pop, will get you points. The rapid fire volley and shot goes with the next, which is...
• Be ready for the next shot - You might think you are hitting a great ROS or shot, and mentally you are thinking it will win something, and that causes a pause or lapse in focus. Might not be apparent, but worth reviewing that you are ready. I know I catch myself watching the great shot I hit instead of moving without the ball and reacting to the opponent.
• Improve your own transition and net game - This is something I am working hard on myself. Getting from the baseline to the net to add pressure.

About 90% of my ROS are deep into the singles corner. I've been trying to add more variety, such as angles and drop shots, but it's hard for me mentally to decide to to DTL on the return. I'm playing on the ad side and if we're ahead in the game (like 15-30) and I hit the return right to the guy at the net and he puts it away I feel like I wasted an opportunity to break. If we're down in the game I feel like I'm giving away the game. In the last match I tried a BH DTL off a wide serve and my opponent volley it for a winner. That was the only DTL return I tried the whole match. I know this is something I need to work on.

Similarly with lobs, especially on the return if I lob and the net player slams it I feel like a dope. I almost thing I should try a TS lob instead of slice since I've been able to use that more successfully when I've been playing singles. Some of these opposing net players are right on top of the net so I've got to incorporate the lob.

I've re-started playing some doubles these past few weeks and funny I had similar experiences with you and here are my minor tips, for what they are worth:

1. People never poach my returns CC, also b/c I send a good number of my returns DTL, hard, where they have to defend for their life. Manly FHs but also some 1HBHs. Only one DTL ROS was volleyed back, during the last 2 hours of doubles and it was a more of shank. I was more worried as not to hit someone in the eye, although I warned them to defend at the net, b/c I was going DTL.

2. After missing some lobs, I went back to my bread of butter ground strokes, hard and with some top spin as per point 1 above and won much more of them than lobs.

3. I got decent at "rapid fire points at the net and ones where you're just reacting", lower position being key, but if push comes to shove, you can also sit back.

Good luck,
Marian

Good tips!

So between 40+ and 18+, I was 4-3 record last year. For this year, 40+, I'm 0-7. I don't think I had 7 losses in 2 seasons.

I'd say many of the matches were against really good players. About half of them were my partner having a melt down. Two matches, my partner DF'd min twice on EVERY service game. I don't know how we win like that. Also, one partner had issues with his racquet/string. But waited until we were down 1-5 in the 2nd set to change racquets and we come back.

We've been plagued with injuries this season and so I've always been partnered with weaker partners (partnering with lower NTRP rated players). When things get tight, less experienced players tend to fold (DF, UE, playing timid...)

We should have a stronger and healthier 18+. Hoping for better results. In the meantime, I'm going to work on my support of my partner. Work on hitting lobs and also best way to return deep lobs.

Kind of like you I was expecting this to be a great season with all the work I put in to my game. I'm very tempted to blame my partners for a lot of the losses for a variety of reasons, but I also know if they were playing with a strong 4.5 or 5.0 player they would have won and there is always more I can do.

Fortunately I've turned this around a bit and have finally won some matches! I also have a different partner which I think helps. He's kind of hit or miss. Like he'll hit great unreturnable serves and shots in one his service games, but double fault and make unforced errors in another. I'm trying to be extra sharp at the net and poach when I can.

 

[LuckyR]

i have no doubt you'lll dodge, as i don't hit that hard anyway.... but that said, if you're looking to dodge my body shot, then you're less likely to be worrying about poaching...

Well, I'm not looking to poach off of a putaway, though I don't get struck with the ball and I can hit a reflex shot back over the net on occasion. My competition doesn't go for headshots or chest shots because they'll land long if struck hard and they'll get returned if struck softly.

 

[Jono123]

About 90% of my ROS are deep into the singles corner. I've been trying to add more variety, such as angles and drop shots, but it's hard for me mentally to decide to to DTL on the return.

I don't see how you can be hitting deep corner based returns and the opposing net man is intercepting them.

As you're on the Ad side, I suspect you are returning with a BH slice. If so there's your issue.

 

[Chas Tennis]

Find a video camera that does 60 fps and has a fast shutter speed in direct sunlight. Video a set of your doubles. Look for stroke flaws especially in volley techniques for pace.

 

[sovertennis]

Stop focusing on stroke production. You have what it takes. Focus on positioning and tactics.
Read these 2 books: Dynamite Doubles, and On The Ball: Doubles Tactics

This. Add continual, appropriate movement to your process.

 

[EddieBrock]

I don't see how you can be hitting deep corner based returns and the opposing net man is intercepting them.

As you're on the Ad side, I suspect you are returning with a BH slice. If so there's your issue.

I should have clarified what I said about my returns. Almost all my 2nd serve returns are going deep into the corner. Off 1st serves when I can go after them I'm hitting them there, but sometimes the serve is too good and I return more down the middle of the court or can pop the return up.

I'm not going to the BH slice unless I'm really in trouble there, which is not usually the case. The opposing net man is intercepting my 1st serve returns and sometimes will poach and make contact past the center of the court so even though I'm driving my BH return CC he still puts it away. When that happens I regret not trying more DTL to keep him honest.

 

[ballmachineguy]

when i hit at the net person, i'm going for their right pec or right hip.
not trying to hurt them, but it's the highest percentage chance for me
if they are getting hit, it's their fault for not protecting themselves (eg. moving back)

Good for you! There’s not a sport worth its salt where if you want to take an advantageous position you don’t pay for it. Want to crowd home plate to take away the pitcher hitting the outside corner - have a cowhide sandwich. Want to stand in front of the net in hockey - have a stick shaft to the spine. Want to put your right foot on the green circle in Twister - take a knee to the crotch. People stand at the net in tennis and expect you to have to hit around them……ludicrous!

 

[Jono123]

I should have clarified what I said about my returns. Almost all my 2nd serve returns are going deep into the corner. Off 1st serves when I can go after them I'm hitting them there, but sometimes the serve is too good and I return more down the middle of the court or can pop the return up.

I'm not going to the BH slice unless I'm really in trouble there, which is not usually the case. The opposing net man is intercepting my 1st serve returns and sometimes will poach and make contact past the center of the court so even though I'm driving my BH return CC he still puts it away. When that happens I regret not trying more DTL to keep him honest.

I play on the ad side too. Not because my BH is great but I love drilling my forehand returns deep to the server's backhand side. I tend to stand quite wide which gives you a much better percentage of getting the serve on your forehand.

 

[Traffic]

i'm 5'4"... so if i'm an athletic stance... i think that's barely clearing the net

Again, if you can't dodge a shot from baseline, you are standing too close. I typically hit at the net person on a weak 2nd serve. If they get hit a couple times, they tend to back up to the baseline.

 

[ngoster]

Assuming your opponents aren't rock stars...
--If the net man is still able to comfortably poach then you're either not hitting it wide enough or with enough pace. Any floaty type shots will get poached.
--If you're playing against aggressive serve/return and volleyers then improve your topspin. If you normally hit with pace then redirect your pace into spinning the ball more. Getting that ball to dip hard will create a more challenging reply. Also, unless the net man is literally camped on top of the net, dipping balls will make it harder for them also.
--If you're having a hard time finishing off volleys, check to make sure you're not too close to the net. Being too close will make you army rather than being able to step through the volley and using your body as the mass.
--Be more aware of what your opponents' tendencies are and use it against them. It sounds like they're doing that to you.
----Here are a couple of scenarios...
------When I'm serving and notice that you don't have much control with your BH returns or you tend to defensively float them to the middle, I will tell my partner to poach until you show us something different.
------Note whether the net man likes to poach or not. If not, then CC is wide open with no pressure. We play with hand signals. I've played with partners who never poach. Frustrates the hell out of me when they don't tell me ahead of time and then proceeds to give me the same "stay" signal. If I'm serving well (directionally and pace) my primary goal is to get my partner a ton of opportunities to put relatively easy balls away.

 

[ubercat]

Absolutely can't argue against a better cc drive it is 80% of backhand play. I would argue strongly for practising backhand cc high rollers. Makes the net guys job harder and is more relevant to normal rally play not just ROS.

Then how about a couple of slice shots to keep him honest. Practise the block slice DTL. And slice lob. Practise it cc because that is best but as long as you practise getting it nice and high wherever it goes it won't be a sitter. And TBH at rek level lobbing somebody's overhead is not that hard. Just about every match I win a couple of points by simply pointing my racket up at 45-degree angle and blocking somebody's overhead back as a lob. And then watching them net dump the second smash. And believe me I am not real talented.