What to do about guys who ONLY hit slice?

[obtn]

So I played in my first USTA tournament this weekend (3.5 level).. got to the semi-finals and lost to the number one guy in my state.

It was an incredibly frustrating match, as I felt I had more solid shots than him, but he was VERY good at hitting slice with pace and deep. I lost 3-6 0-6, after serving at 3-3 40-15 in the first set. I obviously lost my cool which didn't help, but a lot of that was that I couldn't come up with a strategy that worked against this guy.

The best thing I could think of was to approach more often, but because he hit most of his slice shots so deep, that was difficult.

Any ideas? (Other than me needing to practice returning slice shots, which I do need to do.)

 

[GPB]

I have the same problem.. the older guys in my local ladder beat me with the low-bouncing, court-skidding slice. Kudos to them for knowing my weakness.

 

[Fuji]

Attack the net or chip and charge? I can see that as being a solid strategy against people like that. Just serve and volley on your games as to not give him enough time to slice it back deep.

Offensive Lobs, Volleys and half volleys are your friends against opponents like this!

-Fuji

 

[obtn]

Attack the net or chip and charge? I can see that as being a solid strategy against people like that. Just serve and volley on your games as to not give him enough time to slice it back deep.

Offensive Lobs, Volleys and half volleys are your friends against opponents like this!

-Fuji

Thanks for the advice, looks like I need to work on my net game some more as well so that I can rely on it in these situations.

 

[MNPlayer]

Agree with other posters that getting to net is a good plan.

Also keep in mind that slicing all the time is an inherently low percentage strategy. These type of players (and I played an excellent slicer in a 4.0 tournament once so I know what you're talking about), have gotten extremely consistent at it. But, because of the nature of slice, they cannot hit as hard or as high over the net as a topspinner. You just have to make them play until they mess up. You should be able to get to most of their shots in time, and they usually don't have a big serve.

Another variant of this problem is the guys who hit flat & hard. That can be a little tricker because they will hit winners and rush you. But the same strategy applies - keep the ball in and deep. Put pressure on them with your consistency.

 

[jdubbs]

I played a guy in a tourney a couple of weeks ago with a lot of slice. I figured out that he was just floating every serve back, so once I started serve and volleying, I started winning almost every point.

Also, do you hit with a lot of topspin? A high, deep shot to the backhand is a very hard shot to return with a slice, as they like it low.

Perhaps getting more extreme western on your grip would help.

 

[mikeler]

I like to use a high topspin ball against these types of players, but I try and aim the ball just a few feet past the service line. That way it will kick up high to them if they are standing on the baseline. If they choose to backup and wait for it at waist level, it does not give them much pace to work with.

Hitting heavy topspin deep can work with some players, but most of the good slicers I play are very good at taking the ball off the rise. They end up just using the pace of my shot against me.

 

[obtn]

I played a guy in a tourney a couple of weeks ago with a lot of slice. I figured out that he was just floating every serve back, so once I started serve and volleying, I started winning almost every point.

Also, do you hit with a lot of topspin? A high, deep shot to the backhand is a very hard shot to return with a slice, as they like it low.

Perhaps getting more extreme western on your grip would help.

Yea, I usually hit with a lot of topspin. I was having trouble hitting deep balls off of his slice though since the ball is so low. It was very rare I could get a good dose of topspin off of any of his shots. I don't have much of a slice forehand in my arsenal though, so I had to try.

As far as hitting lots of topspin but shorter, that didn't work either since he would take the ball on the rise, slice a deep shot and approach the net.

Some good thoughts so far in this thread, thanks for all the replies!

 

[mikeler]

How is his forehand?

 

[Nellie]

I would definitely serve and volley and look to volley the slice shots aggressively.

I would not suggest hitting high top spin - most slice hitters due well against high balls (they just block it back with little effort - meaning you do all of the work and they wait for you to make the mistake). Instead, I flatten out my shots for more pace - I think that the the faster pace makes their control harder.

 

[obtn]

How is his forehand?

Good enough, deep and with backspin/slice, same as his backhand.

 

[tennisguy2009]

So I played in my first USTA tournament this weekend (3.5 level).. got to the semi-finals and lost to the number one guy in my state.

It was an incredibly frustrating match, as I felt I had more solid shots than him, but he was VERY good at hitting slice with pace and deep. I lost 3-6 0-6, after serving at 3-3 40-15 in the first set. I obviously lost my cool which didn't help, but a lot of that was that I couldn't come up with a strategy that worked against this guy.

The best thing I could think of was to approach more often, but because he hit most of his slice shots so deep, that was difficult.

Any ideas? (Other than me needing to practice returning slice shots, which I do need to do.)

slice gives you a lot of time to setup if you are a quick player.

Run around those slices like a crazy man, and keep hitting inside out forehand, your forehand vs his backhand. Hit loopy forehands that bounce high to his backhand, its extremely difficult to slice against these. you will get an unforced error, or a short slice, then go to net.

And remember, you do NOT want to hit hard forehand with heavy topspin, you want to hit loopy heavy high bouncing topspin with not that much pace. Force him to generate pace off the slice, and hit the slice high up, its very difficult to do. You know you doing it right if he is being forced to slice at his shoulder level. Your heavy topspin should be clearing the net by 5 foot +

 

[Kevo]

A good slice is a tough shot to deal with. Your best bet is usually to slice it back. If you can get under it, you can hit a deep heavy topspin shot as those are tough to slice effectively, but the main thing you have to do against any player that has a shot which is working against you is to get them out of their comfort zone.

Normally this means making them run more, force them in to net, hit to a weak backhand, etc. Some times you will just run into a player that has your number and nothing will work. If you don't run into a player like that fairly regularly, you're probably not trying hard enough.

 

[joesucks]

This is a tough shot to play, I have a lot of problem with these too. So far hitting top spin down the line, from my forehand to the slicers backhand and rushing to the net has worked, although my net game is at best poor.

 

[larry10s]

first try loopers although he will slice them back they will out of his strike zone and you can look for a short ball to attack.
if you can make him run by angling balls off the court he'll have to float some back to give himself time to recover. anticipate when you see him sretched and move in to take the ball out of the air.

 

[thebuffman]

OP i really appreciate your question and thread. this is a great topic of discussion. i think often times what is lacking when we discuss "what to do against..." type strokes is first addressing or tabling the concepts, strengths and weaknesses of a stroke. so, i think it is beneficial if we broaden the topic more and discuss the slice stroke itself.

what is the strength of the slice
what is the weakness of the slice
when to slice
when not to slice

this way of thinking is critical to advancing our tennis level of play. this is no different than say playing a strategy first person shooter video game. anyone who plays these sorts of games must choose a weapon. if i select an smg as my main weapon and my opponent takes an automatic rifle, then it behooves me to know the strengths & weakness of both weapons. i know that my weapon is for close quarter fire fights but no good for wide open areas. my opponent's weapon is the complete opposite. this way i can develop a sound strategy against him. same with tennis.

so then why do most baseliners hit with extreme topspin as opposed to slice?? what advantage does topspin give them? why is slice not chosen as the prime rally ball on tour but used from the baseline for mixing up the pace a bit? why is slice the preferred choice when approaching or at net over topspin?

i will begin by saying that the topspin shot hit hard pushes the opponent back, keeping them from closing the net. the person who can close the net and take away the angles has an incredible advantage to finish the point. the baseline slice cannot be hit as hard since its natural rotation is to stay afloat longer. how do we take advantage of this? when we see floating shots, we can move into the court and take it out of the air. once we move into the court attacking the floating slice, the opponent is in trouble if they only hit slice because if their response to us shortening the court is another slice ball, then we win. the reason is that a slice ball should never be the choice as a passing shot...topspin is the only choice for passing. now if we KNOW that a slice is coming because that is all the opponent does, then we can move into the court IMMEDIATELY after we hit the ball. we gain even more time closing because a well hit slice should be executed at the side of the body and not out in front. a slice ball hit out in front will normally be short or lofty. harder hit and low trajectory slice is normally hit to the side of the body which gives us that much more time to get to the service line, hit a volley instead of half volley and taking that much more time away from the opponent.

now if we have no net game, then we are seriously in trouble and will find ourselves unable to take advantage of the persistent slicer. this is a main reason why these type players do so well at low levels of play (3.0-4.0) because their opponents have not developed their skill set enough to attack out of the air (volley, half volley, overhead, swinging volley).

 

[tennisdad65]

I would definitely serve and volley and look to volley the slice shots aggressively......

lol.. lots of serve and volley suggestions here .

I serve and volley all the time, and it is NOT easy to volley against a good slicer who can keep it low (not all slicers float balls).
1) you just do not see this passing shot often.
2) the lack of pace makes your volley footwork extremely important.
3) you have to generate all the pace on the volley.
4) the ball rises as opposed to most passing shots which dip. Tendency to contact volleys above the sweet spot.

If the OP is not a good volleyer, he will be toast at the net against a good slicer.

 

[user92626]

OP,

Don't feel bad. Yesterday I also just fell to a guy who mainly sliced almost the whole time. He actually sliced and dropshot every single time my shots landed shot. ...I ran up and he lobbed...

Oh well..yesterday was bad, but I'm not gonna let it affect my mental game. Work harder. Master your putaway shots and groundstrokes.

 

[obtn]

Cool, glad to get so much feedback so quickly.

I will definitely practice the stuff mentioned in this thread, and employ it on the next guy I face that plays this way. I'm sure I'll probably play this guy again too, as he plays a lot of tournaments.

 

[BobFL]

Good enough, deep and with backspin/slice, same as his backhand.

Wait a minute? Fh with backspin/slice?? What kind of player is that?

 

[larry10s]

the slicer extreme hits a ball with so much underspin if you dont volley thru it it spins inro the net

 

[larry10s]

OP i really appreciate your question and thread. this is a great topic of discussion. i think often times what is lacking when we discuss "what to do against..." type strokes is first addressing or tabling the concepts, strengths and weaknesses of a stroke. so, i think it is beneficial if we broaden the topic more and discuss the slice stroke itself.

what is the strength of the slice
what is the weakness of the slice
when to slice
when not to slice

this way of thinking is critical to advancing our tennis level of play. this is no different than say playing a strategy first person shooter video game. anyone who plays these sorts of games must choose a weapon. if i select an smg as my main weapon and my opponent takes an automatic rifle, then it behooves me to know the strengths & weakness of both weapons. i know that my weapon is for close quarter fire fights but no good for wide open areas. my opponent's weapon is the complete opposite. this way i can develop a sound strategy against him. same with tennis.

so then why do most baseliners hit with extreme topspin as opposed to slice?? what advantage does topspin give them? why is slice not chosen as the prime rally ball on tour but used from the baseline for mixing up the pace a bit? why is slice the preferred choice when approaching or at net over topspin?

i will begin by saying that the topspin shot hit hard pushes the opponent back, keeping them from closing the net. the person who can close the net and take away the angles has an incredible advantage to finish the point. the baseline slice cannot be hit as hard since its natural rotation is to stay afloat longer. how do we take advantage of this? when we see floating shots, we can move into the court and take it out of the air. once we move into the court attacking the floating slice, the opponent is in trouble if they only hit slice because if their response to us shortening the court is another slice ball, then we win. the reason is that a slice ball should never be the choice as a passing shot...topspin is the only choice for passing. now if we KNOW that a slice is coming because that is all the opponent does, then we can move into the court IMMEDIATELY after we hit the ball. we gain even more time closing because a well hit slice should be executed at the side of the body and not out in front. a slice ball hit out in front will normally be short or lofty. harder hit and low trajectory slice is normally hit to the side of the body which gives us that much more time to get to the service line, hit a volley instead of half volley and taking that much more time away from the opponent.

now if we have no net game, then we are seriously in trouble and will find ourselves unable to take advantage of the persistent slicer. this is a main reason why these type players do so well at low levels of play (3.0-4.0) because their opponents have not developed their skill set enough to attack out of the air (volley, half volley, overhead, swinging volley).

nice disertation
not sure you answered the ops or your own questions

 

[thebuffman]

nice disertation
not sure you answered the ops or your own questions

i was more aiming to broaden the discussion. most of the times we get responses like "OP just serve and volley and you will destroy him everytime". what i don't see enough of is educating one another so that we fully understand "why". so my response was to stimulate more indepth discussion.

 

[mikeler]

Wait a minute? Fh with backspin/slice?? What kind of player is that?

I used to play an older guy just like this. It's tougher than you think!

 

[arnz]

lol.. lots of serve and volley suggestions here .

I serve and volley all the time, and it is NOT easy to volley against a good slicer who can keep it low (not all slicers float balls).
1) you just do not see this passing shot often.
2) the lack of pace makes your volley footwork extremely important.
3) you have to generate all the pace on the volley.
4) the ball rises as opposed to most passing shots which dip. Tendency to contact volleys above the sweet spot.

If the OP is not a good volleyer, he will be toast at the net against a good slicer.

So did you offer a suggestion or is your suggestion for him to give up because he is toast either way? (baseline or net)

 

[BobFL]

I used to play an older guy just like this. It's tougher than you think!

On contrary, I do think it is very tough. I just do not play that kind of anti-tennis

 

[tennisdad65]

So did you offer a suggestion or is your suggestion for him to give up because he is toast either way? (baseline or net)

I think OP has a better shot from the baseline, IF he is not a good net player. Stick with his 'more rounded' game and get better with it. He will eventually beat this guy.

On the other hand, it is useful to develop decent net skills on the side over the years

 

[thebuffman]

i think it is in error to think a 'net game' is synonymous with a 's&v game'. s&v is a methodology, a style of play. it takes dedication to get good at as well as an entirely different mind set than baseline bashing. s&v is not cut out for everyone.

a decent net game though should be in every aspiring player's repertoire.

 

[athiker]

... I lost 3-6 0-6, after serving at 3-3 40-15 in the first set...

What were you doing to the point of 3-3 serving at 40-15 and what changed?...besides losing your cool? What changed on the court? Did he get more accurate? Did you lose your patience?

the slicer extreme hits a ball with so much underspin if you dont volley thru it it spins inro the net

Yep good point, see this pretty often...a change up underspin ball being volleyed right into the net. When a topspin ball hits the racquet face there is at least some upward force at contact. When a underspin ball hits the strings there is some downward force purely from the direction of spin of the ball.

Anybody remember the Schiavone/Stosur French Open final? Schiavone took away Stosur's backhand slice by cutting it off at the the net and volleying it away. Everyone previously was letting her get away with it as just a rally ball.

It sounds like this guy has no problems coming to the the net as well so its not like going to the net more will assure victory. Its just that hanging out trading ground strokes and giving him time to make the first move will certainly not work. High topspin ball to deep back hand corner and cut off the slice return would be my first strategy choice.

You say he hits deep, but I find vs. slices since they don't bounce up as high as a deep topspin rally ball, or kick forward, that I need to remember to move up closer to the bounce or I find myself leaning fwd to hit the ball off the low bounce. Better position helps me hit a better ball, obviously.

Finally, if I'm not in good position I have no problem resorting to slicing a low sliced ball back either on by bh side or my fh side...it can be a safer shot. Slice vs. slice till I get a ball I can get under and hit a good topspin ball.

 

[obtn]

What were you doing to the point of 3-3 serving at 40-15 and what changed?...besides losing your cool? What changed on the court? Did he get more accurate? Did you lose your patience?

I would say this was just after the point that he realized I was struggling hitting his slice on my forehand side. That, and his balls DID seem to be more accurate (ie hitting the corners, etc) at that point.

Thanks for the rest of your post as well.

 

[BreakPoint]

Wait a minute? Fh with backspin/slice?? What kind of player is that?

A good and smart player who knows how to beat his opponents. He's not the #1 player in the state for nothing.

 

[Jura-SB]

HATE THEM!!!!
Period.
No fun.

 

[user92626]

How do you guys propose to practice on hitting groundstrokes against the low, situp slice shot if you can only practice by yourself?

I noticed that I could anticipate and run to the sliced shots alright, but I seemed to take on a different rhythm with my swing and thus late and powerless with my groundstrokes. Then, when I could groundstroke the ball over, it was fairly weak and he could manipulate/lob/punch-dropshot/place the ball back in my court where I could not cover.

Advice?

 

[BreakPoint]

HATE THEM!!!!
Period.
No fun.

Is that because you can't beat them?

I doubt you'd say that if you had no trouble beating them.

 

[sureshs]

Just wait for the slice to rise and then convert the back spin to top spin and send it back. If it stays very low, slice back with some side spin too.

 

[Jura-SB]

Is that because you can't beat them?

I doubt you'd say that if you had no trouble beating them.

No!

I say that because I don't play tennis for money...I work with tennis for money.

So when I go out there to PLAY I want to play and by play I think of hard groundstrokes from baseline...volley attacks after a good attacking baseline shots and things like that...good serve or dropshots.

I simply don't find any fun or letting the steam off in the game of sliceing...by that I mean of that nontactical slices-"can't do nothing else slice"!!!

 

[Sox Fan]

I think getting to the net is a sound strategy. However, getting to the net can be tough against a good slicer. I use a slice quite a bit when I see someone coming to net - a good slice at your feet can be very tough to volley.

Also - hitting the high, looping groundstrokes can by tough do do off of low, skidding shots. At least for me it is.

 

[tennisguy2009]

main points to take in vs a slice player

1) you are going to get way more time to setup than vs a topspin player, use it
2) if you get to net, a slice player is going to have a much harder time passing you unless he can change to topspin
3) its much easier to play slices off lower balls with some pace - so give him neither, no low balls, and no pace either.
4) its easy to play topspin off slice shots with modern forehand, you just need to adjust the stroke. Shorten stroke, make it more compact, reduce power, and use even more wrist to flick over it, especially on the low slices.

 

[LeeD]

Slicers can lob over your head easier than topspinners or flat hitters.
Slicers can keep low passing shots at net level, forcing you to move forwards to hit solidly, yet they lob better and more often than topspinners.
Slicers can use low soft angles to drive you crazy, hit behind you, or force you to hit OVER the net, giving them another shot.
KenRosewall was not easy to beat, for anyone except top 10 players.

 

[DownTheLine]

Run them from corner to corner. Don't over hit just place. They will stop after their heaving out there lungs after every point.

 

[BobFL]

I have the same problem.. the older guys in my local ladder beat me with the low-bouncing, court-skidding slice. Kudos to them for knowing my weakness.

Hmm, you think that they know your weaknesses? You think they go that deep to analyze your game? We are not talking about higher level of tennis that comes with variety, adaptability, and strategy. Those are 3.5 hackers that will bore us to death lol That is the only tennis they know to play. Absolutely nothing sinister here, just my angle

 

[papa]

One of the toughest shots for someone who hits just slice, IS THE SLICE. The ball just doesn't come high enough for them to work their so called magic.

The other words of advice I would offer is to come in a step or two from your normal positioning. When you do this your taking time away from the slicer. Also make them run which means a harder shot for them - and keep them running, don't stop after one or two shots.

 

[Thepowerofchoice]

Well please don't beat me up for this but that is how I play...SLICE is my bread and butter. I can slice from both wings. My forhand slice is nasty(I'm a squash and table tennis player also) I am also a soccer player so speed and footwork is also my strength. I also have a big forhand which I use it to finish the point. My OHBH top spin is my weaker shot but not terrible. I can hit 2 handed backhand (not often)for a passing shot if I need to. I prefer the backhand slice to control the ball/point. To the OP, I would say that high deep ball to my back hand with no spin might be your ticket. Then sneak into the net after BUT be prepare for the lop

 

[BreakPoint]

Slicers can lob over your head easier than topspinners or flat hitters.
Slicers can keep low passing shots at net level, forcing you to move forwards to hit solidly, yet they lob better and more often than topspinners.
Slicers can use low soft angles to drive you crazy, hit behind you, or force you to hit OVER the net, giving them another shot.
KenRosewall was not easy to beat, for anyone except top 10 players.

McEnroe also sliced and diced his opponents to death by using soft angles.

 

[BreakPoint]

Hmm, you think that they know your weaknesses? You think they go that deep to analyze your game? We are not talking about higher level of tennis that comes with variety, adaptability, and strategy. Those are 3.5 hackers that will bore us to death lol That is the only tennis they know to play. Absolutely nothing sinister here, just my angle

Not true. Some very good players know how to hit all the shots but find that slicing works best against certain opponents so they keep doing it to drive their opponents crazy and to keep them off balance and throw off their timing since most opponents these days are only familiar with dealing with topspin. These slicers are just very smart players. After all, their goal is to win so why not use the most effective shots in their repertoire to do so?

 

[Thunderbrat]

Get to the Net to Beat the Slice!

It's tough to play extended points from the baseline with slicers because it seems they never miss. I've seen many ralleys where one player consistently hits sweet topspin drives all over the court while his/her opponent slices each one back without much pace or placement. The guy hitting the topspin drives often loses those points becasue they are hitting the more difficult shot and they usually miss first.

The good news is that most slicers rarely put a ball away. If (like me) you can't consistently hit winners from the baseline then come in to the net the first chance you get. I find that it's hard for a slicer to hit a passing shot because you just can't get enough pace to consistently pass a decent net player without flattening the shot out or hitting topspin. If you don't like to volley then I'd suggest you take it as an opportunity to work on your volley. At least you'll be the one in charge of the point!

 

[user92626]

I notice that slicers have one glaring vulnerability which we non-slicers need to capitalize on is they often yield short ball.

 

[BreakPoint]

It's tough to play extended points from the baseline with slicers because it seems they never miss. I've seen many ralleys where one player consistently hits sweet topspin drives all over the court while his/her opponent slices each one back without much pace or placement. The guy hitting the topspin drives often loses those points becasue they are hitting the more difficult shot and they usually miss first.

The good news is that most slicers rarely put a ball away. If (like me) you can't consistently hit winners from the baseline then come in to the net the first chance you get. I find that it's hard for a slicer to hit a passing shot because you just can't get enough pace to consistently pass a decent net player without flattening the shot out or hitting topspin. If you don't like to volley then I'd suggest you take it as an opportunity to work on your volley. At least you'll be the one in charge of the point!

The problem is that it's tough to effectively volley a heavily sliced ball because you can't just block it or punch it as it has so much spin on it with very little pace. The trajectory is also different and tends to make the ball rise as it crosses the net and forces lots of volley errors because most people are not used to volleying heavily sliced balls these days. The underspin on the ball also makes the ball fall down into the net if you're not careful and try to volley it the same way as you would a topspin or flat ball.

Also, at the recreational level, it's consistency not hitting winners nor hitting the more difficult shots that wins matches. So if you can be more consistent by slicing than by hitting topspin, then slicing is what you should do.

 

[BobFL]

.................

 

[Fuji]

I was thinking about this thread on my lunch break today, and I realized, that since slice is a backspin from the player hitting it, wouldn't it be spinning forwards to the player receiving thus giving even more topspin for the receiving playing to hit with if volleyed?

Sorry if that makes no sense but I could see it being a liable strategy to hit a nice topspin swinging volley or half volley as a "Kill Shot".

I've never tried this as I never really thought about it, but I would like others opinions on this!

-Fuji