What would we say when seeing 30:22 Nole-Rafa H2H?
- Thread starter dpli2010
- Start date
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
What would be the major h2h ?
What would be the real tennis h2h, aka Clay /Grass tennis ?
Did Nole have positive h2h over top ATP 30 ?
Did Nole win majors for 8 cons years ?
Did Nole win a tournament for 8 consec times ?
What would be the real tennis h2h, aka Clay /Grass tennis ?
Did Nole have positive h2h over top ATP 30 ?
Did Nole win majors for 8 cons years ?
Did Nole win a tournament for 8 consec times ?
N
Nathaniel_Near
Guest
That Nole leads by 8.
D
Deleted member 512391
Guest
helloworld
Hall of Fame
Only H2H in slams matter and Djokovic trails Nadal in slams by a large margin.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
So , why do Nadal fans bring up the 26 masters when comparing with Fed ?
I think what you meant to say is whenever it suits your argument.
Kenshin
Semi-Pro
Because it is one of the important stats and unique stats Nadal has over Federer. Why can't you understand this simple question?
D
Deleted member 77403
Guest
What looks like it would be very unique is that Djokovic could likely have a winning H2H against both Federer and Nadal, but will still be considerably behind both in career achievements. Amazing though, if it happens to have winning H2H against two icons of the sport.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Not happening.
The moment the H2H is in jeopardy they will start meeting only on clay (and Nadal will be forever the favourite on clay between those two).
Tio Toni knows how to take care of business.
The moment the H2H is in jeopardy they will start meeting only on clay (and Nadal will be forever the favourite on clay between those two).
Tio Toni knows how to take care of business.
Chico
Banned
That would be amazing.
Anti-Fedal
Professional
Nole won't overturn it. Absolutely no way he'll overturn the H2H in majors.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Not happening in the real world. Nadal will most likely win their next match.
LazyNinja19
Banned
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Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
How close do you think Nole can get to overturning it?
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
If it is one of the important stats, how is that being ignored for Novak''s wins over Rafa ?
Does it count only when we talk about Fed and Rafa ?
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Why ? Only majors matter is it ? If so, why do you bring up masters when comparing Nadal with Fed ? Why cannot just say he is 4 majors, 6 WTF, 3 year ends and 200 weeks no 1 lesser than Fed ?
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Not. True.
90's Clay
Banned
Majors only seem to matter to the Fed Fanatics.. So why can't Nadal fans use the same reasoning. 17>13, 13>6
Heck, don't Fed fans discount Nadal's masters titles and meaning very little anyways? And use the "matchup problem" as an excuse for Fed's blatant FAILURE vs. Nadal?
Nadal has beaten Nole more times than not where its mattered most on the big stage just as Nadal has dominated Fed more times than not where its mattered most.
Either way, Nadal still has the masters record and COULD get the slams record as well in the next few years.
90's Clay
Banned
It may not used to be true as Nadal went balls to the wall in most tourneys he played.. But I think with all the extra mileage (and knowing he only has a few years left to break the slam record) the SMARTEST Thing to do is just go hard for the slams and hit the extra gear there.
I haven't seen much of that extra gear from Nadal at non slam events so far this year. I saw it at the AO before the finals and injury, Im sure we will see it at the French and probably the two other slams as well this year
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Nadal has had just 1 awesome year 2010 like Novak's 2011 in his long career.
What animal you are talking about ? Losing to Ferrer, Muller, Blake, etc., on hard and Darcis, Rosol on grass..
But for clay, he has been helped a big deal by the draws to win the 3 hard court majors.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
Yes, but you are not a Fed fanatic (so you cannot resort to the same reasoning), or any type of fanatic, for that matter.
Oh, wait ......
Never mind. What were you saying?
Tennis_Hands
Banned
The facts prove what you are saying wrong.
The whole discussion will burn up
It will be interesting if Djokovic and Nadal finish their careers with Djokovic leading the H2H but Djokovic ends up with less slam titles than Nadal (likely I believe). It will especially be interesting if Federer manages to maintain a superior H2H to Djokovic. (Younger players are normally advantaged in H2H so it isn't likely that Federer will lead Djokovic in H2H - but it is far from impossible - If everybody retired today - that would exactly be the case)
So how will that work Nadal leads H2H over Federer, Djokovic leads H2H over Nadal and Federer leads H2H over Djokovic?
It will be interesting if Djokovic and Nadal finish their careers with Djokovic leading the H2H but Djokovic ends up with less slam titles than Nadal (likely I believe). It will especially be interesting if Federer manages to maintain a superior H2H to Djokovic. (Younger players are normally advantaged in H2H so it isn't likely that Federer will lead Djokovic in H2H - but it is far from impossible - If everybody retired today - that would exactly be the case)
So how will that work Nadal leads H2H over Federer, Djokovic leads H2H over Nadal and Federer leads H2H over Djokovic?
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Dedans Penthouse
Legend
Chico, a treasure nonpareil. Excellent post.
fednad
Hall of Fame
******* is a troll. So is his own fanbase and other fans of Sampras who support him.
Gentleman, his a#$ was kicked royally. That injury was a drama queen at her best. Get over it.
dpli2010
Semi-Pro
It certainly possible, but so far there is no sign showing degradation of Nole's game, instability of his performance, or physical insustainability, so why he would end up less Slams than Rafa seems to be unconvincing, especially that when he plays Rafa he plays with so much confidence, that the other two Big Four's are not as competitive as usual at this moment, and that the newmen still need some time to arrive at the level to grab Slams from the hands of Big Four or Big Two, however you name it...
This seems to me a time that could be referred to as a vacuum or a mini weak era that Nole can fill in and take advantage of to make himself a huge career success...
LuckyR
Legend
It won't matter, since the H2H only reflects who is better than whom (relatively speaking), but does NOT reflect their rank among all of tennis. For example: Fed is the GOAT we all agree but Rafa is better than Roger (because of the H2H). Similarly, Rafa's career is much better than Nole's yet Nole is currently better than Rafa, even without a better H2H. Getting the H2H advantage alone will not change either reality.
TheMusicLover
G.O.A.T.
Should this ever come to be, I'd take it in the same way as I do the H2H between Fedal: nice stat for the leader, but totally irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, i.e., if the loser in that stat still is the guy holding the most major titles and other records.
Tennis is not boxing. It's not about how a player does compared to one other player, it's about how he does against the entire field.
It's been explained 12934871023641236413 times already on this board - a player may even keep a reasonable H2H against a certain other player but just failing to pass the first round of every tournament he plays.
If, for example, Fed had been such a genuine Clay Prodigy as, let's say, Sampras :twisted: - i.e. barely managing it past the first rounds in about every tournament he entered during an entire decade - his H2H with Nadal would have looked quite a mite better.
Tennis is not boxing. It's not about how a player does compared to one other player, it's about how he does against the entire field.
It's been explained 12934871023641236413 times already on this board - a player may even keep a reasonable H2H against a certain other player but just failing to pass the first round of every tournament he plays.
If, for example, Fed had been such a genuine Clay Prodigy as, let's say, Sampras :twisted: - i.e. barely managing it past the first rounds in about every tournament he entered during an entire decade - his H2H with Nadal would have looked quite a mite better.
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For Federer and Nadal, I don't think it's totally irrelevant. Their head2head
issue will haunt Federer's legacy forever, I gaurantee.
And the major count will soon follow. We all know why Federer is still playing.
He is out their to protect it.
Fiji
Legend
I concur......
Fiji
Legend
Nobody won more than five slams after. turning. 27. agassi, federer and. laver did this. Nole would need 8 more slams after turning 27 in may and nobody did that in the past 50. years. the fact that nole only won one of the past eight slams is not a good omen for anyone to think he will 8 more slams. i think he will end up with ten slams.it is too late for him to win eight more slams
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TheMusicLover
G.O.A.T.
I guarantee you it won't.
The only thing that counts is the number of major titles.
As soon as Nadal manages to equal that, then we'll be talking about the H2H as a - perhaps - decisive factor.
I don't think Fed is still playing to 'protect' anything - I think he's still playing because of sheer love of the game, which he shows in about every tournament he enters nowadays, results or no.
Fiji
Legend
That stat about no male player winning more than five slams after turning 27 is not a good omen. for Federer... maybe he won his last. slam. already
TheMusicLover
G.O.A.T.
It could well be. In fact, I personally don't think he'll get another one.
But as long as he plays, and still manages to keep up a high (i.e. top-4) ranking, he's still got a chance. Perhaps a minute one, but still... ask Sampras, or even Ivanisevic - or recently, Wawrinka!.
Nadal will also be 28 yo coming June, so if this stat is anything to go by, his time may well be running out just the same.
On the other hand it looks like players are reaching - and keeping - their prime nowadays at an older age than it used to be some years/decades ago. Nothing is set in stone, and nobody owns a (working) crystal ball.
dpli2010
Semi-Pro
Should this ever come to be, I'd take it in the same way as I do the H2H between Fedal: nice stat for the leader, but totally irrelevant in the grand scheme of things, i.e., if the loser in that stat still is the guy holding the most major titles and other records.
Tennis is not boxing. It's not about how a player does compared to one other player, it's about how he does against the entire field.
It's been explained 12934871023641236413 times already on this board - a player may even keep a reasonable H2H against a certain other player but just failing to pass the first round of every tournament he plays.
If, for example, Fed had been such a genuine Clay Prodigy as, let's say, Sampras :twisted: - i.e. barely managing it past the first rounds in about every tournament he entered during an entire decade - his H2H with Nadal would have looked quite a mite better.
Great points!
dpli2010
Semi-Pro
Whether that omen is good or not or can be applied to a particular player depends on the player himself and the peers he is/will be dealing with.
Is Nole declining? Who is/will be a steady threat to him now/in the next 3 years?
Fiji
Legend
But nole only won one of the last eight slams.... that and losing to wawa at his best slam tells me he will not win a lot more slams... maybe like four more but i don't see him winning eight more. he ***** the bed too much in slam finals...like lendl
dpli2010
Semi-Pro
True, but:
FO 2012, lost to Rafa - but it was also his 1st preparation in crowning in RG;
Wim 2012, lost to Roger in semi - Wim is not his best chance;
USO 2012, lost to Murry - the Andy at the time is possibly the career peak Andy;
AO 2013 - the only win;
FO 2013, lost to Rafa in semi - getting closer and to me has reached to the point of reversing the result this June;
Wim 2013, lost to Murry - Wim is not his best chance, besides the Andy at the time is possibly the career peak Andy;
USO 2013, lost to Rafa - because of Rafa's career peak in my eyes;
AO 14, lost to Stan - who else could stop Stan at that time?
Now that Rafa has started declining, which allows a better opportunity for Nole at RS (he has so matured here) and for USO; that Andy will stay somewhere for a little while before coming back (in what form?); and that Roger may be his hard competitor at Wim and USO (Rafa as well, if he remembers and carries on what/how happened in 2013). As of AO, it still is Nole's most convenient chance... Stan's and the newmen's odds to disturb this formula is unpredictable, but seems to me will be random if it does happen, maybe once a year; and it will take 2 or 3 more years for some of them to secure a spot of consistently challenging the major titles...
This is just brilliant. So when Federer fans were using surface or other stats to justify the H2H with Rafa we were nitpicking. But now when Rafa's H2H might be overtaken by another one of his main rivals now we talk about surfaces and his overall legacy > Nole?
Yeah, lol it is sort of funny and ironic. The same arguments that Nadal fans use against Fed, they now use in favor of Nadal.
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