Yes, seriously does it make any sense to have a super short grass season starting the day after the clay season ends??? Queens and Halle are farily big tournaments, but this is insane to go from clay to grass overnight, leave the players (and the spectators) time to breath and make the change from clay to grass. Why can't they move the grass season by just one week? Becasue of tradition? because of sponsors? It's time the ATP stops enslaving players and cut the number of tournaments, and give them time to recuparate between slams!
When will the ATP finally move the grass season ....
- Thread starter db379
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ark_28
Legend
Totally agree with you problem now is schedule is too packed to allow any room for manoeuvre my solution is simple have only two masters on clay downgrade lets say Madrid and have it early in the year perhaps after AO then French is finished a week earlier! Then upgrade queens of Halle to a masters 1000 and have another couple weeks of tournament play.
We have three masters prior to French two prior to the open it is time for one on grass!
We have three masters prior to French two prior to the open it is time for one on grass!
woodrow1029
Hall of Fame
Queens and Halle are both only ATP 250's. There are no 500's even. In the grand scheme of things, just because they get some good players, they really are not big tournaments. When would you suggest they move it to?
stringertom
Bionic Poster
The problem can't be solved until one of the two majors committees agrees to abandon tradition and play earlier (FO) or later (Wimby). I bet my house Wimby fortnight will ALWAYS be played the last week of June/first week of July.
Fee
Legend
This. As discussed every single year, there is nothing the ATP or the WTA can do. The real money and power in tennis is in the 4 slams, and the 4 slams pick their own dates. The AO wants to be in the summer before the kids return to school so they won't move more than a week. RG wants to be as late in spring as possible to avoid rain, Wimbledon pretty much wants to be two weeks later, but is now 'considering' moving one week later in 2015 or something to make a 3 week grass season, which in turn would squash up the US summer season leading to the USO. Yes, adding a week to grass season would be a good thing, but the US WTA/ATP events will scream and cry about it for sure.
groundbreaker
Rookie
I agree. I think the problem could be solved fairly simply if Wimbledon agreed to move by one week in July. It always seems to me that there's no real big tournament anyways just after Wimbledon (in the 2 week after the final at least).... That's where things can be changed. Just before the hard court season starts end of July. Sure, these "small" tournaments in July will scream and shout but come on, no big names plays them anyways.
Frankly, moving Wimbledon one week later will not make any difference in weather conditions, and it will make things a lot better for players to acclimate on grass after the clay season. So Wimbly, what do you say???
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
Time to get rid of some hard courts and make way for grass.
forzamilan90
Legend
I agree, it's a shame really, there must be a grass Masters 1000!
Fee
Legend
The players wouldn't care if there were no points at W., they would still show up for the money and the history. The slams hold all the power and it is rare that they can be threatened. If the ATP and/or WTA tried to pull points from a slam, the players would stop that in a hurry.
The USO will not move away from Labor Day, they make bank that weekend in both TV and ticket sales.
Fee
Legend
I agree. I think the problem could be solved fairly simply if Wimbledon agreed to move by one week in July. It always seems to me that there's no real big tournament anyways just after Wimbledon (in the 2 week after the final at least).... That's where things can be changed. Just before the hard court season starts end of July. Sure, these "small" tournaments in July will scream and shout but come on, no big names plays them anyways.
Frankly, moving Wimbledon one week later will not make any difference in weather conditions, and it will make things a lot better for players to acclimate on grass after the clay season. So Wimbly, what do you say???
I agree, and I think that this is what is going to happen eventually. There could conceivably be a free week in the summer if one ATP and one WTA tournament in the US fail (and that is very plausible). That will allow the governing bodies to buy back the license and suspend it, freeing up a week on the calendar. It's the only possibility, so we'll see what happens in the next five years.
sportsfan1
Legend
Watching the first few grass court matches of the year, the "grass court" area around the baseline seems like just some form of clay, perhaps brown. Hopefully Rafa approves.
stringertom
Bionic Poster
Make him howl...dye it blue!
Mainad
Bionic Poster
It is indeed a curious anomaly that grass is the only recognized tennis surface that has by far the fewest tournaments of all and none higher than an ATP 250 apart from Wimbledon:
Hard Court (Outdoor + Indoor):
Grand Slams = 2
Masters 1000 = 6
ATP 500s = 8
ATP 250s = 21
Total = 37
Clay:
Grand Slams = 1
Masters 1000 = 3
ATP 500s = 5
ATP 250s = 13
Total = 22
Grass:
Grand Slams = 1
Masters 1000 = 0
ATP 500s = 0
ATP 250s = 5
Total = 6
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Timbo's hopeless slice
Hall of Fame
Let's play it in Geelong in, say, late February!
If they shifted 15 hard court tournaments to grass it would put
Hard courts @ 22 Tournaments
Clay court @ 22 Tournaments
Grass @ 21 Tournaments
Which makes more sense instead of favoring all the hard court player games...we could see guys like Mahut have a better ranking I mean Rafa gets to keep him self in the hunt every year by dominating clay and picking up a few tournaments outside that surface.
A longer Grass season I am sure would bring some more faces up the list.
Hard courts @ 22 Tournaments
Clay court @ 22 Tournaments
Grass @ 21 Tournaments
Which makes more sense instead of favoring all the hard court player games...we could see guys like Mahut have a better ranking I mean Rafa gets to keep him self in the hunt every year by dominating clay and picking up a few tournaments outside that surface.
A longer Grass season I am sure would bring some more faces up the list.
Grass needs a masters and Germany needs a masters as well. So make the Grass Court Season longer and name Halle a masters!
The only question would be: Which masters should be taken away then? One of the US hardcourt masters would be logical. But they all have a big tradition, so it's very difficult.
However, it is fact that there is way to much hardcourt now, especially after carpet was totally abolished in 2007. I like watching hardcourt tennis, but I like surface variety even more.
kishnabe
Talk Tennis Guru
Rather take Shanghai away.....best players prefer to skip it!
ricki
Hall of Fame
Smasher08
Legend
I agree. I think the problem could be solved fairly simply if Wimbledon agreed to move by one week in July. It always seems to me that there's no real big tournament anyways just after Wimbledon (in the 2 week after the final at least).... That's where things can be changed. Just before the hard court season starts end of July. Sure, these "small" tournaments in July will scream and shout but come on, no big names plays them anyways.
Frankly, moving Wimbledon one week later will not make any difference in weather conditions, and it will make things a lot better for players to acclimate on grass after the clay season. So Wimbly, what do you say???
Actually there's usually 4-5 weeks between the SW19 final and the start of Toronto/Montreal.
Push Wimbledon back one week and elevate Halle to 1000 optional just like Monte Carlo. There would be no need to demote or alter any of the other 1000s.
Queens is trickier to move up because it's still a private club that happens to do double duty as a tournament site. It might thrive by remaining a 250 the week after RG: players bowing out before the RG semis might be tempted to go there for a little extra matchplay.
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Fee
Legend
No, not problem solved. The USTA has to agree to lose a week of the summer season in the US for both the ATP and WTA tours. Not there yet.
Venues need to meet certain capacity requirements to be a M1000 that I don't think Halle or Queen's can meet. They can't be promoted to the 1000 level without significant changes.
Frankly, I think they should make the fall an indoor carpet season like it used to be. Then we'd have four hard court Masters, three clay Masters, and two carpet Masters. Fairly even split (much more even than it is at present).
Frankly, I think they should make the fall an indoor carpet season like it used to be. Then we'd have four hard court Masters, three clay Masters, and two carpet Masters. Fairly even split (much more even than it is at present).
Moose Malloy
G.O.A.T.
This isn't just about the summer hardcourt season in the US. some years the Davis Cup QF has been played the week after Wimbledon(see last summer, it seems to alternate between April & July in past years)
Wimbledon ending later + davis cup one week later + delay of summer hardcourt season = more unhappy players about the schedule than there are now(& I don't think the players care that much about the short time between French & Wimbledon, its been like that forever. seems like fans care more)
I doubt any of the slams will ever move, so many other tournaments would be affected, one move makes sort of a chain reaction. And no tournament wants to move, when you have success one way, why tinker with it?
I don't see what the big deal is anyway, its been like this for so many years, and today there is no such thing as a grass specialist & the same players do well at the French & Wimbledon, so its not like giving the top players extra rest after the French would make a difference.
Grass as a legit tour surface pretty much died in the 80s, there's no going back.
Wimbledon ending later + davis cup one week later + delay of summer hardcourt season = more unhappy players about the schedule than there are now(& I don't think the players care that much about the short time between French & Wimbledon, its been like that forever. seems like fans care more)
I doubt any of the slams will ever move, so many other tournaments would be affected, one move makes sort of a chain reaction. And no tournament wants to move, when you have success one way, why tinker with it?
I don't see what the big deal is anyway, its been like this for so many years, and today there is no such thing as a grass specialist & the same players do well at the French & Wimbledon, so its not like giving the top players extra rest after the French would make a difference.
Grass as a legit tour surface pretty much died in the 80s, there's no going back.
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marc45
G.O.A.T.
that was the first time i really watched halle, hoping for nadal-fed final...the stadium was bigger than i thought...queens is a club...but, you're right, they've got to deliver the goods venue-wise...still, i'd like to see a masters on grass...they're never going back to carpet i believe.....another point here about wimbledon other than reluctance to change their schedule...i think they like being the only big thing on grass...i'm guessing they'd even be upset if halle or queens was a 500
Blade0324
Hall of Fame
I know I'm going to get killed for saying this but no one else here seems to be. Grass is for Golf. I don't care to watch tennis on it. Wimby is my least favorite of the slams so I would argue that the reason there are so few tourneys on grass compared to other surfaces is that the players prefer the other surfaces. If the players wanted it bad enough they would advocate for it and ATP/WTA would find a way to make it so.
Grass courts are the most difficult to keep in good shape. See how the courts a any grass tournament look like after only a few days of play? It require more maintenance than any other surface. I guess that's why there are so few tournaments on grass. Because other than that, I love playing on grass and almost everyone I know loves it too, as long as they GOOD grass courts, and it's a lot harder to get than a good hard court.
Look at the hecatomb last week at queens and halle. Who won both titles? Nadal couldn't even get past the 3rd round at Halle, Murray lost in 1st round, Tsonga in 2nd round, Djoker didn't even play. I really believe one week of transition between clay and grass is the minimum after the French. I always thought weird that 2 slams were so close to each other anyways. The great thing about a slam is the buildup in intensity during the season leading to it. with the slam being the apotheosis of the season. The grass season is gone in less than a month. Wimbledon is the only interesting event. It's a sad state of affairs.
Blade0324
Hall of Fame
Good points. They are indeed difficult to maintain. Having played on grass some myself, I really dislike it. I find it to be slippery and just an odd surface for tennis.
Always thought this
That the French Open should be one week earlier and Wimbledon one week later.
This would mean the interim would go from 2 weeks to 4 weeks. Then a real Grass Court season could take place.
Another recommendation is that a new Masters 1000 tournament be played in that time on the East Coast of the United States called 'The US Grass Court Championships'. (If you want to keep the same number of total Masters 1000's -downgrade Madrid. Monte Carlo should never have been made optional as Monte Carlo and Rome as the classic Clay top tournaments with huge traditions that need to be kept going).
With changes of just a week to the the French and Wimbledon - this would create a real Grass Court season of 4 weeks before Wimbledon which would be the culmination.
So don't just change the Wimbledon dates by a week - change Roland Garros and make it a week earlier.
That the French Open should be one week earlier and Wimbledon one week later.
This would mean the interim would go from 2 weeks to 4 weeks. Then a real Grass Court season could take place.
Another recommendation is that a new Masters 1000 tournament be played in that time on the East Coast of the United States called 'The US Grass Court Championships'. (If you want to keep the same number of total Masters 1000's -downgrade Madrid. Monte Carlo should never have been made optional as Monte Carlo and Rome as the classic Clay top tournaments with huge traditions that need to be kept going).
With changes of just a week to the the French and Wimbledon - this would create a real Grass Court season of 4 weeks before Wimbledon which would be the culmination.
So don't just change the Wimbledon dates by a week - change Roland Garros and make it a week earlier.
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bluetrain4
G.O.A.T.
I honestly don't think they'll ever move it. While a grass Masters and longer grass season would indeed be nice, I've rarely heard players express any concern over it one way or the other. They seem to be focused on Wimbledon and not much else.
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