Where do Fed, Nadal, Djokovic, and Murray rate all time in the return of serve area

[illusions30]

Before the current big 4 people believed the best 2 return of servers in history were Connors and Agassi. John McEnroe has started to talk about Djokovic as maybe having the best return ever (though he must be taken with a huge grain of salt as he have a habit of overhyping current players, and the current weaker serving mens field probably makes Djokovic's return look better than it is). Murray is also an excellent returner. Nadal stands way back to return but is extremely effective and hard to get serve past, while Federer is an excellent defensive return who can get back nearly any serve. So where do these 4 rank all time in returning.

I would say Djokovic and Murray are both top 10, and Federer and Nadal top 30 all time.

 

[90's Clay]

Personally, I think Agassi was the best in terms of really zipping the ball back in play and sometimes getting back with as much force as the server was serving. His hand/eye coordination was impeccable and he had to to do it on FAST surfaces many of the times while the guys today get slower surfaces and more time to get the ROS back. Murray is certainly up there as well. Not too sure Nadal/Nole are as good as Agassi/Murray

 

[illusions30]

Personally, I think Agassi was the best in terms of really zipping the ball back in play and sometimes getting back with as much force as the server was serving. His hand/eye coordination was impeccable and he had to to do it on FAST surfaces many of the times while the guys today get slower surfaces and more time to get the ROS back. Murray is certainly up there as well. Not too sure Nadal/Nole are as good as Agassi/Murray

Interesting. So you feel between the four of them on return of serve it is Murray > Djokovic = Nadal > Federer. I get the impression most (not neccessarily right, majority is often wrong) rate those four as Djokovic > Murray > Nadal = Federer in their respective primes on the return of serve, although all 4 are excellent.

 

[90's Clay]

I kind of like Murray over the other 3 in terms of ROS. Hes exceptional there. OF course, none of the 4 are bad.

Its tough to judge because we have pretty much one surface speed today: SLOW!!! So we don't get to see how they would do if the conditions were polarized like during Andre's day from one tournament to the next

 

[chjtennis]

I think we should think about the changes in tennis over the years. The biggest changes are racquet and string, which have changed the style of tennis completely. I guess if players in the past played tennis under the current environment, they might have returned the serves like they do today. Nowadays, everyone is returning the ball early and hard, and I suspect that's because the game has changed with the equipment. Having said that, I think Djokovic and Murray are the two best returners of this era.

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

I've gotta put Agassi above all others. Difficult to say who be be the next, particularly across different eras where court speeds varied and racket/string technologies probably should be taken into account. Here is my attempt (no particular order within groups):

Tier I:
- Andre Agassi

Tier II:
- Jimmy Connors
- Lleyton Hewitt
- Nikolay Davydenko
- David Nalbandian
- David Ferrer
- Andy Murray
- Novak Djokovic

Tier III:
- Roger Federer
- Rafa Nadal
- James Blake
- others

Note: All of these guys are/were great serve returners (all 3 groups are actually very close)

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

http://www.worldtennismagazine.com/archives/8105

According to tennis historian, Steve Flink, the top 5 female returners (in order) are:

- Monica Seles
- Steffi Graf
- Chris Evert
- Vika Azarenka
- Maria Sharapova

 

[Flash O'Groove]

Before the current big 4 people believed the best 2 return of servers in history were Connors and Agassi. John McEnroe has started to talk about Djokovic as maybe having the best return ever (though he must be taken with a huge grain of salt as he have a habit of overhyping current players, and the current weaker serving mens field probably makes Djokovic's return look better than it is). Murray is also an excellent returner. Nadal stands way back to return but is extremely effective and hard to get serve past, while Federer is an excellent defensive return who can get back nearly any serve. So where do these 4 rank all time in returning.

I would say Djokovic and Murray are both top 10, and Federer and Nadal top 30 all time.

All these 4 are very good but I think a lot of players are as good or better of them on the return as a shot, but overlooked because overall inferior players.

Recently, Ferrer, Davydenko in particulars have been very good. Nalbandian and Coria as well. In general, players who lack a good serve tend to have a great return, as it's the only way for them to exist. Davydenko has led the return point won on 1st and 2sd serve percentage ranking for several years between 2006-2008 for example.

Obviously Davydenko is inferior to Nadal, Federer, Djokovic and Murray, but his returns may be better than all of them. The same apply for a lot of other players.

Nadal and Federer have exceptionally good returns considering their hold games abilities. Most players who could hold as well as them didn't have a return as good as them, as they didn't need to. I guess that's why these two have achieved so much.

 

[Pebbles10]

Wilander was good to return serves

 

[TadDavis]

I have a hard time placing any of these players in the all-time great returners discussion because I haven't been able to see how well they would fare against great serve and volley players.

 

[Incognito]

http://www.worldtennismagazine.com/archives/8105

According to tennis historian, Steve Fink, the top 5 female returners (in order) are:

- Monica Seles
- Steffi Graf
- Chris Evert
- Vika Azarenka
- Maria Sharapova

Where's Serena on that list? LOl, Sharapova and Azarenka return better than GOATrena?:shock:

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

Where's Serena on that list? LOl, Sharapova and Azarenka return better than GOATrena?:shock:

Steve Flink is much more of a tennis expert than either you or me/I. He has been a tennis reporter, analyst and historian since the mid-70s. In his 2012 book (link in my prev post), he has Serena as the top server but did not have her in his top 5 for serve returners. In his assessment of 2012 on the Tennis Channel he put Serena as his overall #1 but also had very high praise for Azarenka... "Her return of serve is outstanding, her court sense is excellent, and she keeps her mind on the task at hand as well as anyone."

http://www.tennischannel.com/news/NewsDetails.aspx?newsid=11785

Sharapova was a very effective serve returner prior to her shoulder issues on 2008. Since 2011, she has regained her standing and ability to win matches even tho' she has had issues with her serve since her shoulder problems. Much of this is due to her ability to return serve effectively.

 

[josofo]

1 djokovic

2 murray.


no one else is really that close.


people that say agassi was a better returner than djok or murray like seriously. you know how much more balls djok and murray get their rackets on?

 

[SystemicAnomaly]

^ Murray & Djoko may have slightly better stats on first serves but neither really match Agassi's 2nd serve return stats. Novak's stellar 2011 yielded serve return stats that somewhat exceeded Agassi's 1995 stats. However, in looking at career stats, Agassi beats out both Murray & Djoko. We should consider that these career stats/percentages do not yet include the declining year for Andy and Novak.

On top of that, Andre's career stats encompasses 20 years. It is a truly amazing feat that he was able to sustain his high level of play and his excellent serve return stats for that long in the modern era. It is unlikely that either Andy or Novak will go even 15 years (as RF has done). Much of Andre's career has been played during a time when most court surfaces were much faster (mid 80s thru the 90s). Note that most tennis experts (analysts & historians) put Agassi ahead of Murray & Djoko.

http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Ag/A/Andre-Agassi.aspx?t=mf&y=0&s=0#
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Novak-Djokovic.aspx?t=mf&y=0&s=0#
http://www.atpworldtour.com/Tennis/Players/Top-Players/Andy-Murray.aspx?t=mf&y=0&s=0#

 

[TadDavis]

Agassi was much more aggressive off of the return than either Djokovic or Murray. They get a lot of serves back, but just floating a return back deep wouldn't have cut it during the 90's, when players were willing and able to come in behind their serves. Djokovic and Murray are both good at neutralizing the point off of the return, but Agassi was better at seizing control of it.

 

[Chico]

Tier I: Djokovic, Agassi.
Tier II: Murray, Connors
Tier III: Others

 

[TheRed]

Between Murray and Djok, Murray is the more consistent returner and more textbook, i.e. split stop, short take back, short swing. Djok is more dangerous but streaky. When he's locked in, you can't get anything past him but he hits streaks when he misses a few, including easy ones.
Hard to compare them to Agassi. Andre played in a much more offensive era which made him a much more offensive returner. If he didn't clock a return, chances are the server would be trying to put it away with a volley or hard groundstoker. Conversely, if the server just threw one in, he'd be under immediate pressure as well. The stakes on serve and return were just much higher.

In this era, Fed is probably the best returner against big servers but especially on his backhand, he needs pace. Frankly, his backhand return has been terrible against Nadal and Nadal's second serve is nearly the same every time.
Connors is equally difficult to compare to. I mean, he's hitting cleanly on a 75 sq inch racquet.

Of course, there's the issue with poly. before poly, you had to be very precise on a return or it'd fly on you. That's not true anymore. Poly lets you swing away, handle pace and spin much more easily.

Nadal is not worth mentioning. He's an average returner. He just gets them back and let's the rest of this game dictate. He'll get aggressive once in awhile just to scare you and only when he's comfortably ahead.