Where does the ball hit the strings?

[asifallasleep]

For a topspin shot where should the ball make contact on the strings? If the racquet is square to the net at contact, does the ball hit the top of the string bed with the racquet brushing up, the ball goes from top of string bed to bottom of the string bed in the process? On my forehand I tend to either swing up and over the ball or twist my torso rotating hip and shoulders and whip racquet over the top of the ball with a slightly closed face.

Is the term sweet spot mainly for flat shots where you can aim for the sweet spot driving through it? As topspin is a low to high brushing up back of ball motion, would the sweet spot be brushing from top of frame to bottom of frame, ball crossing vertically over the sweet spot?

 

[Xizel]

For a topspin shot where should the ball make contact on the strings? If the racquet is square to the net at contact, does the ball hit the top of the string bed with the racquet brushing up, the ball goes from top of string bed to bottom of the string bed in the process?

The movement and its distance is not significant because the dwell time of the ball on the strings is extremely short. The velocity of the racquet head is more important. Consistently looking for the sweet spot is your best bet, for topspin or flat pace. It provides the maximum response from the racquet and the most space to work with, which will significantly reduce shanks due to extreme vertical swing paths and racquet head speed.

 

[rufusbgood]

If you are finding that the wear pattern on your strings is high up in the hoop and significantly off center, you're not alone. It's common, especially among good players.

 

[5263]

The movement and its distance is not significant because the dwell time of the ball on the strings is extremely short.

I've heard this many times, but I know I have hit topspin shots from top of the frame to the bottom of the frame with string contact along the way. I wonder where this dwell time things comes from?

 

[Xizel]

I've heard this many times, but I know I have hit topspin shots from top of the frame to the bottom of the frame with string contact along the way. I wonder where this dwell time things comes from?

That's a nice sample. Do you actually look at the ball slide on the string? For me personally, the ball rebounds off too fast. I suppose if you have the right equation with soft, low tension strings and a slow swing (for a lob), you could possibly see some significant movement.

 

[mightyrick]

Some of the best results I've ever gotten have actually been missing the strings completely and hitting with the frame. I believe they call those "frame winners". I personally call them "Wilson Winners" because it seems like Wilson racquets are so stiff that even framed hits go over the net easily.

Some of my shanks have had such nasty corkspin that nobody can reliably put them away.

 

[JRstriker12]

I've heard this many times, but I know I have hit topspin shots from top of the frame to the bottom of the frame with string contact along the way. I wonder where this dwell time things comes from?

Was it a shank? (Shank off top of frame, slides down, shanks off bottom of frame)

Other posters are right, the dwell time of the ball on the strings is very small so a properly hit ball will not start at the top of the string bed and slide across the strings.

Tsonga and Nadal are two big hitters, and no one produces more topspin than nadal. In slow motion you can see that the ball doesn't slides off the strings so much as the strings deform than snap back and push the ball off the string bed.

http://youtu.be/kNyfckDtRHM

Another good slow motion of Djokavic's and Federer's topspin forehand and gives a really good view. Not much sliding.

http://youtu.be/Gq09yHPmKh0

http://youtu.be/QvZ7prb43Lk

 

[Nellie]

If you play on clay court, you will see that the ball leaves a spot at the point of contact and not a skid mark. Maybe you are feeling a double hit.

Anyway, I tend to hit higher on the racquet face when I am going for my topspin forehand or serves, and hit lower on the face when I hit my flatter backhand, slices, and vollies. It is not my intent - just where I see the fuzz from the ball after playing.

 

[mikeler]

Buy Genesis Thunder Blast. It is black initially but as it wears down, the coating comes off and the white base will show you exactly where you hit the ball. When I look at my stringbed, the upper right area of the center is the most worn.

 

[dozu]

I don't buy the 'insignificant dwell time' argument.

If I look at the ball, at impact, from behind the strings.... my typical contact would happen near 10 oclock, and the sweet spot, the center of the face, is where the ball SEPARATES from the strings.

This makes sense because the SEPARATION is what ultimately decides the speed and spin of the ball.

The dwell time maybe insignificant, but with the fast racket head speed, the ball does roll across several strings from contact to separation... and thru many years of play, good players will automatically know where the contact and separation points should be.. the brain is very good at doing trial and error for this.

 

[Caesar]

If you are finding that the wear pattern on your strings is high up in the hoop and significantly off center, you're not alone. It's common, especially among good players.

This. If you hit topspin shots, that's what happens - regardless of dwell time the ball does move down the racquet during contact, so you are aiming to hit higher than the middle. Look at where the pros break their strings - it's almost always in that area.

There is a guy at our club who hits the flattest forehand I've ever seen, and he constantly breaks strings dead centre.

 

[JRstriker12]

I don't buy the 'insignificant dwell time' argument.

If I look at the ball, at impact, from behind the strings.... my typical contact would happen near 10 oclock, and the sweet spot, the center of the face, is where the ball SEPARATES from the strings.

This makes sense because the SEPARATION is what ultimately decides the speed and spin of the ball.

The dwell time maybe insignificant, but with the fast racket head speed, the ball does roll across several strings from contact to separation... and thru many years of play, good players will automatically know where the contact and separation points should be.. the brain is very good at doing trial and error for this.

FWIW- ball only stays on the strings for about 4-8 thousands of a second.

If you look here: http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/spinandlube.php

-under the section labeled "3. Analysis"

They have a pretty cool video of an actual tennis swing at 10,000 frames per second. Seems like the ball doesn't move more than about 2-3 mains down after impact - at least that's the way I see it.

Another good article here: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/01/the-new-physics-of-tennis/8339/ seems like the ball would have to stretch and deform the strings, then have the strings snap back more than slide across the strings to get extra spin.

There seems to be some movement, but I don't think it's starting at the very top and leaving at the bottom of the frame as the op suggested... unless it's a shank.

 

[TennisCJC]

On pro's FH, they usually contact the ball just a little below center. They also almost always have the racket closed say 10-20% as they come into contact with the ball. In the Oscar at the Fair thread in the Tips/Instruction area there is a reference to a web site with photos of Fed, Nadal, Safan,... and they consistently have racket slight closed (lead with the edge into contact) and consistently make contact slightly below center for topspin FH. I wish I could find the site but I'm at work and I cannot spend too much time on it.

 

[TennisCJC]

Try these sites:

http://blog.tennisspeed.com/2011/05/roadmap-to-hall-of-fame-forehand-part-1.html

http://blog.tennisspeed.com/2011/06/roadmap-to-hall-of-fame-forehand-part-2.html

 

[TennisCJC]

I personally think that it is very difficult to plan on hitting below center. My opinion is that if you think "lead with edge" into contact to hit topspin, that lower contact will happen naturally.

 

[asifallasleep]

I personally think that it is very difficult to plan on hitting below center. My opinion is that if you think "lead with edge" into contact to hit topspin, that lower contact will happen naturally.

Those video links you provided were very interesting. What I got is that they are saying that the racquet face is closed before, during and after contact and that one should aim at making contact with the ball at the bottom end of the string bed and not at the middle or the top. Whenever I've watched any of the pros hit, it always appeared to me that they were hitting the top of the ball with a closed racquet face. At least visually that is how it appeared to me. Those videos support what I believed I was seeing. Have you tried hitting in this fashion?

 

[sureshs]

Those video links you provided were very interesting. What I got is that they are saying that the racquet face is closed before, during and after contact and that one should aim at making contact with the ball at the bottom end of the string bed and not at the middle or the top. Whenever I've watched any of the pros hit, it always appeared to me that they were hitting the top of the ball with a closed racquet face. At least visually that is how it appeared to me. Those videos support what I believed I was seeing. Have you tried hitting in this fashion?

Yeah I have pointed out before that pros seem to hit across the ball for topspin rather than up on the ball. Your observation is consistent with that. That is how they obtain forward penetration (along with extension). Conventional topspin instruction of hitting up on the ball seems to be for clubbies only.

Of course, on low balls they will be actually hitting low to high.

Again, only my opinion. Need to see some video for this.

 

[sureshs]

I've heard this many times, but I know I have hit topspin shots from top of the frame to the bottom of the frame with string contact along the way. I wonder where this dwell time things comes from?

It is around 4 ms. It is not imaginary, it has been measured. It is possible to study collisions with high-speed cameras. You can see the ball deforming.

Maybe it is possible for the ball to slide down the face in 4 ms but I am doubtful.

 

[5263]

I don't buy the 'insignificant dwell time' argument.

If I look at the ball, at impact, from behind the strings.... my typical contact would happen near 10 oclock, and the sweet spot, the center of the face, is where the ball SEPARATES from the strings.

This makes sense because the SEPARATION is what ultimately decides the speed and spin of the ball.

The dwell time maybe insignificant, but with the fast racket head speed, the ball does roll across several strings from contact to separation... and thru many years of play, good players will automatically know where the contact and separation points should be.. the brain is very good at doing trial and error for this.

I don't buy it either.
Not as advertised.

 

[5263]

If you play on clay court, you will see that the ball leaves a spot at the point of contact and not a skid mark. Maybe you are feeling a double hit.

.

you don't see the diff in the length of a clay court mark compared to hard court?

Mac cam as shown balls hit inside the baseline, roll/skid to and over the baseline, and then come up completely beyond the baseline on a hardcourt.
I've seen 6 in marks on clay.

 

[Fuji]

Maybe I'm a bit odd here, but most of my shots are lower central in the string bed. On a Babolat stencil racket, it's just around the top of the stripe closest to center. I rarely hit near the top of my string bed. Is this a problem with my contact point? It feels as though I'm pretty close on to the sweet spot 9/10 times!

-Fuji

 

[5263]

Maybe I'm a bit odd here, but most of my shots are lower central in the string bed. On a Babolat stencil racket, it's just around the top of the stripe closest to center. I rarely hit near the top of my string bed. Is this a problem with my contact point? It feels as though I'm pretty close on to the sweet spot 9/10 times!

-Fuji

some coaches teach this is ideal for TS shots.

 

[Fuji]

some coaches teach this is ideal for TS shots.

Really? I've never really thought much about my contact point and this is just where my strings wear down and break most of the time!

-Fuji

 

[TennisCJC]

Those video links you provided were very interesting. What I got is that they are saying that the racquet face is closed before, during and after contact and that one should aim at making contact with the ball at the bottom end of the string bed and not at the middle or the top. Whenever I've watched any of the pros hit, it always appeared to me that they were hitting the top of the ball with a closed racquet face. At least visually that is how it appeared to me. Those videos support what I believed I was seeing. Have you tried hitting in this fashion?

Yes, when drilling, I sometimes think "lead with the edge" to create a slightly closed face coming into contact and my experience is it works well. I don't think so much in competitive situation but do use this in practice to hopefully make it instinctive in matches. Try it.

 

[TennisCJC]

Maybe I'm a bit odd here, but most of my shots are lower central in the string bed. On a Babolat stencil racket, it's just around the top of the stripe closest to center. I rarely hit near the top of my string bed. Is this a problem with my contact point? It feels as though I'm pretty close on to the sweet spot 9/10 times!

-Fuji

When you hit your forehand, your racket should be almost parallel to the ground. I am saying that pros hit below center on this parallel racket face. I am not saying they hit in the upper or lower portion if you put the racket head straight up at the sky. Lower portion - below the parallel center line - when racket is out to your side is best for topspin. Go to the sites on my pp1 post to see pictures of pros.

 

[TennisCJC]

Yeah I have pointed out before that pros seem to hit across the ball for topspin rather than up on the ball. Your observation is consistent with that. That is how they obtain forward penetration (along with extension). Conventional topspin instruction of hitting up on the ball seems to be for clubbies only.

Of course, on low balls they will be actually hitting low to high.

Again, only my opinion. Need to see some video for this.

My opinion: I think pros hit up and across. The sensation is a pull across sensation on the WW forehand, but actual motion thru contact is generally up - especially on low balls. Most pros hit spin that is more vertical than horizontal thus it has to be an upward motion as you can not make a ball spin vertically with a horizontal motion. High balls may have more of an across motion as it is more difficult to hit up when ball is above shoulder - spin is less vertical but still more vertical than horizontal.

But, I admit thinking "pull across" is a good drill as long as you finish high - elbow high even when WW follow-thru drops hand on end of follow-thru. Sensation to me is up and across on follow-thru.

 

[JRstriker12]

Interesting evidence about hitting lower in the string bed. Now that I think about it, I tend to break my mains toward the lower edge of the frame instead of dead middle.