Which match was a bigger choke, 2023 Davis Cup semi-final match between Djokovic and Sinner or the 2019 Wimbledon final?

[Megafanoftennis100]

Both matches involved huge chokes and arguably one of the most heartbreaking losses for the player on the wrong end of the stick.
In yesterday's Davis Cup semi-final match between Djokovic and Sinner, Djokovic was up 5-4, 0-40, but failed to convert any of the 3 match points and lost 3 games in a row. What a disaster! This not only cost Djokovic his season match win % (which went down from 90.2 to 88.9), but also his country the Davis Cup (a win against De Minaur is a gimme for both Djokovic and Sinner).
In the 2019 Wimbledon final, Federer held 2 championship points on his serve, but failed to convert them and got broken. He ended up losing the match, 13-12 in the fifth set. This cost him what could have been a historic 9th Wimbledon title (and cemented his status as the eternal grass GOAT).

So, which match was the bigger choke?

 

[MichaelNadal]

No one out-chokes Federer unfortunately

 

[Megafanoftennis100]

No one out-chokes Federer unfortunately

Guillermo Coria: hold my Roland Garros 2004 runner-up trophy

 

[scotus]

Were Novak’s match points break points?

Break points are more difficult to convert.

 

[The Sinner]

Of course it's Federer's. On his serve (and his serve was unbreakable up until then)... that was the Mother of all Chokes.

 

[Mediterranean Might]

Davis Cup basically doesn’t matter and the other is a Wimbledon final.

I dunno tough choice

 

[FeroBango]

Of course it's Federer's. On his serve (and his serve was unbreakable up until then)... that was the Mother of all Chokes.

It's a wound that never heals. The man himself has moved on I'm sure but goddamn it.

 

[Service Ace]

Federer literally choked away his claim to GOAT. Sinner is still a scrub until he proves it in a slam but nice troll thread anyway.

 

[darthrafa]

of course 2019 sw
according to crybabies, when djoker won, the match is valuable
davids cup is just a cup of tea after dessert

 

[Terry Tibbs]

Federer literally choked away his claim to GOAT. Sinner is still a scrub until he proves it in a slam but nice troll thread anyway.

how is it a troll thread?

 

[GoatNo1]

Not to many noles fans did even want him to play this DC. DC is not what it used to be and this does not change anything in his GOAThood. 9th W would change a lot for fed. That match practically send him to retirement. We will see how noles lost affect him. Often he comes out stronger efter things like this. I don't think that fed choked in any of his losses to nole. Of 6 bolls he missed only 2nd one in 2011 and did double fouled on BP after. Nole did a UE on his first MP. I don't know what is worse but it is obvious what is more important for their respective carers.

 

[Aestheticsaboveallelse]

Djokovic match obviously... how can you fail to convert any match points at 40-0 and then also lose 3 games in a row. Especially when you're supposed to be the clutchest player thats a massive choke. He has some kind of mental block playing for his country like losing to not only Zverev but also Busta at olympics to not even get a bronze medal

 

[MichaelNadal]

Djokovic match obviously... how can you fail to convert any match points at 40-0 and then also lose 3 games in a row. Especially when you're supposed to be the clutchest player thats a massive choke. He has some kind of mental block playing for his country like losing to not only Zverev but also Busta at olympics to not even get a bronze medal

 

[Aestheticsaboveallelse]

Not in terms of importance but how much he choked

 

[Genie Of the Bank]

Djokovic match obviously... how can you fail to convert any match points at 40-0 and then also lose 3 games in a row. Especially when you're supposed to be the clutchest player thats a massive choke. He has some kind of mental block playing for his country like losing to not only Zverev but also Busta at olympics to not even get a bronze medal

Nope, Novak had one semi chance at fist match point when he tried to buy some time with the slice in the rally , at the other two Sinner serve was brutal and Novak was pinned . Mental blockade my as, he played both singles and doubles and drained himself in humid conditions. Its a god slap in the face not to repeat it . Until 2024 we will enjoy in 24.

 

[Djokovic_is_the_best#1]

It was a big choke from Novak but I still rank feds worse. Feds was the Wimbledon final and on his serve too.

 

[Impressario]

To reach 0-40, Djokovic made three out of this world plays returning Sinner's missile first serves. He could have perhaps passed Sinner at 30-40, but easier said than done from a mile behind the baseline.

Losing matches from match points up is not always a choke, unless your "chokometer" is especially set to very sensitive

 

[thrust]

It was a big choke from Novak but I still rank feds worse. Feds was the Wimbledon final and on his serve too.

Had Novak been serving and lost the game being 40-0 up, then that would have been a choke. Novak was simply outplayed by Sinner from 0-40 to the end of the match.

 

[Biotic]

Both matches involved huge chokes and arguably one of the most heartbreaking losses for the player on the wrong end of the stick.

Lol no

 

[Pass750]

To reach 0-40, Djokovic made three out of this world plays returning Sinner's missile first serves. He could have perhaps passed Sinner at 30-40, but easier said than done from a mile behind the baseline.

Losing matches from match points up is not always a choke, unless your "chokometer" is especially set to very sensitive

The slice was ill advised, the pass was there for the taking. Ok, debatable those were a choke, but he also played awful in his next service game, which was a continuation of “choke”.

 

[SonnyT]

To overcome 0-40 on three set points was impressive, even on Sinner's serve, on tennis clutch-est player.

This should add to Djokovic match point loss category, and by far the most prominent. This might be the first post-'11 loss!

Positive: no one can now call Sinner a weakling!

 

[N01E]

The funny thing about this comparison is that one happened at the highest stakes, while other at the lowest. Let's look at the actual chokes first though.

Federer takes it by definition with him serving for it (not too mention the fact that he didn't even have to face a single break point in the first 2.5 hours of the match, and the 1st one was already when he was 2 breaks up in the set). Djokovic has yet to lose a match in which he served for AND had match points (not even on serve). He lost while having a match point and serving once in his career, but it was in a tb against Nadal in Madrid.

Djokovic worst chokes at the GS in winnable tournaments were against Nadal in RG13 SF and Wawrinka in AO14 QF. He was break up in the 5th in both, but that's as far as it goes. Worst GS slam choke in general was against Melzer in RG 2010 (2 sets up, and break up in 3rd or 4th), but that loss made him a better player according to some as he avoided Nadal because of it.

As far as the match chokes go (ignoring the stakes) I'd put Sinner's at the very top for Novak, but it probably wouldn’t make it to the top 10 of Roger's.

To overcome 0-40 on three set points was impressive, even on Sinner's serve, on tennis clutch-est player.

This should add to Djokovic match point loss category, and by far the most prominent. This might be the first post-'11 loss!

Positive: no one can now call Sinner a weakling

2nd. First one was against Cilic in Queens '18 final (Novak's only championship point wasted). I' ll just qoute myself for the rest:

As far as the mental toughness goes, crazy impressive to do such a comeback against Djokovic, but when we look at the list of people who managed to do so (though not in this exact situation) and we've got Cilic, Berdych or RBA of all people then that may not be an indication of reaching the very top (I'm currently making a list for all of the big 3 for matches "chocked" and "clutched", but will wait a bit longer for a few more).

 

[duaneeo]

I'm simply happy to see some Nole fans admit that winning 2019 WB had nothing to do with him being mentally clutch, and everything to do with Old-erer choking.

 

[Wesling]

Its Davis cup not a slam. Yeah i bet novak wasnt happy but still…

 

[mahatma]

W'19 was quite bad. Davis Cup hardly matters

 

[thrust]

I'm simply happy to see some Nole fans admit that winning 2019 WB had nothing to do with him being mentally clutch, and everything to do with Old-erer choking.

Even if Roger choked that 40-15 game, it was only one game. There were several games after that one, in which Novak played good enough to win.

 

[DSH]

The funny thing about this comparison is that one happened at the highest stakes, while other at the lowest. Let's look at the actual chokes first though.

Federer takes it by definition with him serving for it (not too mention the fact that he didn't even have to face a single break point in the first 2.5 hours of the match, and the 1st one was already when he was 2 breaks up in the set). Djokovic has yet to lose a match in which he served for AND had match points (not even on serve). He lost while having a match point and serving once in his career, but it was in a tb against Nadal in Madrid.

Djokovic worst chokes at the GS in winnable tournaments were against Nadal in RG13 SF and Wawrinka in AO14 QF. He was break up in the 5th in both, but that's as far as it goes. Worst GS slam choke in general was against Melzer in RG 2010 (2 sets up, and break up in 3rd or 4th), but that loss made him a better player according to some as he avoided Nadal because of it.

As far as the match chokes go (ignoring the stakes) I'd put Sinner's at the very top for Novak, but it probably wouldn’t make it to the top 10 of Roger's.



2nd. First one was against Cilic in Queens '18 final (Novak's only championship point wasted). I' ll just qoute myself for the rest:

Nadal should have beaten your idol in 4 sets in the 2013 RG semifinal, instead, the Spanish bull made the routine epic and ended up knocking him down in an anthological match, which is already part of the annals of tennis.

 

[Lauren_Girl']

Seriously? You really comparing a Grand Slam final between 2 Goats and a freaking Piquette Cup match? lol

Djokovic didn't choke. The match points were on Sinner's serve and he played great points to save them. No regrets here. Federer served for the match and made 3 big unforced errors at 40-15. Apples and oranges

 

[N01E]

Nadal should have beaten your idol in 4 sets in the 2013 RG semifinal, instead, the Spanish bull made the routine epic and ended up knocking him down in an anthological match, which is already part of the annals of tennis.

Yep, same thing with AO 2012.

 

[SonnyT]

If only Roger could serve like the Sinner on matchpoints, then Nadal would've 22+1=23, Roger would've 20+1=21, and Djokovic would've 24-2=22.

 

[Martin J]

Damn, sometimes I wish that (almost 38 year old) Fed lost earlier or skipped that Wimbledon so I wouldn't need to listen to some sorry souls here.

 

[jm1980]

I'm simply happy to see some Nole fans admit that winning 2019 WB had nothing to do with him being mentally clutch, and everything to do with Old-erer choking.

There's no doubt that Federer outplayed Djokovic for most of that match. I see that particular match as a positive for Federer's case rather than a negative

Not that it would have mattered in the end though, as Djokovic would still be ahead in the race

 

[The Green Mile]

I remember listening to what Gilles said about the final and his perspective in an interview a while back.

GS - "I had a look at my head to head with Federer, a lot of matches got hung up. There were two one way matches. The rest were tight, but it's been seven for him and two for me."

"You were saying that your minimum level at crucial moments, compared to him..."

GS - "Yes, he is stronger than me, he has more confidence in his game. At the end, the difference is massive. Not just against me: against everyone. He has the proofs of the benefits of his play. Even when it doesn't work. He's losing sometimes, for sure. But when he loses, he won't put everything back into question. Only we have to wonder "Roger, you should've done serve and volley at Wimbledon." I heard that about the 2019 final, so many times. "Why didn't he do serve and volley against Djoko on match points?".... We're not going to start questioning Federer's choices in important moments, are we? If anyone knows, it's him. But we tell him anyway, "service volley, Roger, you'd have won." He knows that he's comfortable when he's playing a forehand over there, but right now Djokovic passes him easily. Because Djokovic is comfortable with those passes in crucial moments. But you can't argue with that choice, and Federer doesn't question it. He played his game. It lasts almost 5 hours, but we only focus on two points."

"He is able to avoid overthinking?"

GS - "At that point, he just knows. He knows he can serve there, hit his forehand there. He knows how to do that. And there comes the great passing shot. He's won a lot of Grand Slams by doing this. In most cases, the pass was out, or the guy missed the return, or Federer could make the winning volley, you can't question everything and it's super important. Only result will tell you if you had it right or wrong. How many times have you serve an awful 110 kmh second serve, on which the other still missed the return? The awful ball was the right choice?The next time, you do the same, but Serena's throwing you a winning backhand. This time, was it the wrong choice? You did it twice, two different results. It's better if your mindset is clear on "what am I able to do under pressure?"

"You mean the result doesn't matter for them?"

GS - "The result is important in the long term. The result validates it all. Federer, for instance, in a Wimbledon Final, the outcome really matters. But tomorrow, if he has another championship point, he'll know it was a good service, a good forehand and that it was a fantastic pass. And he won't change his process."

"Is it self confidence?"

GS - "It's self analysis. "My weapons are serve and forehand", so he can back this up. He won every trophy in his career with his weapons. We overthink about his choices more than him, I presume."

 

[Drob]

Both matches involved huge chokes and arguably one of the most heartbreaking losses for the player on the wrong end of the stick.
In yesterday's Davis Cup semi-final match between Djokovic and Sinner, Djokovic was up 5-4, 0-40, but failed to convert any of the 3 match points and lost 3 games in a row. What a disaster! This not only cost Djokovic his season match win % (which went down from 90.2 to 88.9), but also his country the Davis Cup (a win against De Minaur is a gimme for both Djokovic and Sinner).
In the 2019 Wimbledon final, Federer held 2 championship points on his serve, but failed to convert them and got broken. He ended up losing the match, 13-12 in the fifth set. This cost him what could have been a historic 9th Wimbledon title (and cemented his status as the eternal grass GOAT).

So, which match was the bigger choke?

It is so easy, as 80 percent reflects. Djokovic did not choke at 2023 Davis Cup because there is no Davis Cup in existence since 2018. Davis Cup, the most important tennis competition for 90 years, no longer exists. So, you can't choke.