Which player would improve the most, Federer with Djokovic's mental strength or Djokovic with Federer's forehand?

[Megafanoftennis100]

I think that Djokovic's (relatively) lackluster forehand was what left him vulnerable against Nadal and Federer in their primes. But the same can be said about Federer's mental strength, which has cost him many winnable matches.
With that being said, which player would face the largest improvement? Let's say, we are taking 2006 Federer with 2015 Djokovic's mental strength (or whenever you felt Novak was at his mental peak) vs 2011 Djokovic with 2006 Federer forehand.

 

[messiahrobins]

I think that Djokovic's (relatively) lackluster forehand was what left him vulnerable against Nadal and Federer in their primes. But the same can be said about Federer's mental strength, which has cost him many winnable matches.
With that being said, which player would face the largest improvement? Let's say, we are taking 2006 Federer with 2015 Djokovic's mental strength (or whenever you felt Novak was at his mental peak) vs 2011 Djokovic with 2006 Federer forehand.

Federer in his prime was not mentally weak. He got more vulnerable once his back robbed him of his lateral movement ever so slightly which caused him to shank more balls as he was so reliant on god like timing.
Djokovic's FH though was, and still is, a big achilles heel under the most extreme pressure. The amount of times it let him down when he had time in a slam final at a huge moment i have lost count. Had he had Federer's FH i truly believe he would be on 30 plus Majors now.

 

[Kralingen]

Federer would be a worse player if he had prime Djokovic’s mental strength.

 

[StrongRule]

Djokovic's forehand being a weakness is a myth. Just like for Wawrinka. For both of them, their forehand was always a better shot than their backhand. It's just that their backhands looked special compared to the rest of the tour, which made tennis fans like them more. While their forehands weren't the best in the tour, and so weren't "special" shots.

There are very few players whose backhand is actually better than their forehand. Gasquet was one such player, and even for him it's not as extreme as some might think.

So for the question, I can't even imagine Djokovic with Federer's forehand. It would just not go well with the rest of his game, and surely not improve him. Too different styles.

 

[InsuranceMan]

Federer would be a worse player if he had prime Djokovic’s mental strength.

Interesting take, could you add a little bit more please

 

[messiahrobins]

Interesting take, could you add a little bit more please

Well how many slam finals did Federer lose to guys not named Nadal and Djokovic? I think its just Del Potro, and 2009 Del Potro before the wrist issues probably would have had 6-8 slams.

 

[Megafanoftennis100]

Federer would be a worse player if he had prime Djokovic’s mental strength.

Bruh, do you seriously think 2015 Djokovic would be mentally fragile enough to choke away match points and eventually lose?
The guy has only done that 4 times in his career, and all those four took place outside of his peak years.
Prime Fed, on the other hand... 2005 AO semi-final, 2006 Rome final

 

[Megafanoftennis100]

Djokovic's forehand being a weakness is a myth. Just like for Wawrinka. For both of them, their forehand was always a better shot than their backhand. It's just that their backhands looked special compared to the rest of the tour, which made tennis fans like them more. While their forehands weren't the best in the tour, and so weren't "special" shots.

There are very few players whose backhand is actually better than their forehand. Gasquet was one such player, and even for him it's not as extreme as some might think.

So for the question, I can't even imagine Djokovic with Federer's forehand. It would just not go well with the rest of his game, and surely not improve him. Too different styles.

I never said it was "weak". But relatively speaking, it still pales in comparison to prime Federer's FH (yes, even 2011 Nole)

 

[Kralingen]

Interesting take, could you add a little bit more please

It would mean he’d come out completely flat as a pancake and go down 0-2 to Murray in multiple Slam finals, get utterly terrified of Stan Wawrinka of all players and lose 3x in Slams in 3 years to him in his prime, mess up easy volleys/overheads on crucial lost points (WB 12, RG 13, USO 12/14), and double fault multiple times on match point (RG 12, RG 14)

Yeah that’s what Djokovic’s mental strength got him. Amazing one of a kind stuff.

 

[messiahrobins]

It would mean he’d come out completely flat as a pancake and go down 0-2 to Murray in multiple Slam finals, get utterly terrified of Stan Wawrinka of all players and lose 3x in Slams in 3 years to him in his prime, mess up easy volleys/overheads on crucial lost points (WB 12, RG 13, USO 12), and double fault multiple times on match point (RG 12, RG 14)

Yeah that’s what Djokovic’s mental strength got him. Amazing one of a kind stuff.

Losing to Zverev and Medvedev while going for a golden calendar slam on his best surface proves beyond any doubt his mental strength relative to other ATGs.

 

[Megafanoftennis100]

It would mean he’d come out completely flat as a pancake and go down 0-2 to Murray in multiple Slam finals, get utterly terrified of Stan Wawrinka of all players and lose 3x in Slams in 3 years to him in his prime, mess up easy volleys/overheads on crucial lost points (WB 12, RG 13, USO 12/14), and double fault multiple times on match point (RG 12, RG 14)

Yeah that’s what Djokovic’s mental strength got him. Amazing one of a kind stuff.

WOAH, I don't think those are ideal choices.
WB 12 - Federer was really in the zone, and it seemed like he was turning back the clock in that tournament. I am quite adamant that his level in the semis and finals of WB 12 was comparable to that of WB 06
RG 12 - Nadal was unplayable in this tournament. It doesn't matter if Djokovic missed easy shots or hit myriads of 200+ mph forehands. Nadal would've won anyways.
USO 12 - the conditions were very windy in the final and also, Murray played extremely well. I doubt even 2011 Nole would've won, especially considering the windy conditions which were absent the previous year.

 

[StrongRule]

I never said it was "weak". But relatively speaking, it still pales in comparison to prime Federer's FH (yes, even 2011 Nole)

True, but Federer's forehand will just not work with the rest of Djokovic's game.

 

[Megafanoftennis100]

I characterise mental strength as the ability to avoid choking.
So if you are losing matches helplessly to a player who's outplaying you, that would not count as a display of weak mental strength

 

[Megafanoftennis100]

True, but Federer's forehand will just not work with the rest of Djokovic's game.

btw do you think Sinner would ever end up improving his forehand to prime Federer's level?

 

[InsuranceMan]

I characterise mental strength as the ability to avoid choking.
So if you are losing matches helplessly to a player who's outplaying you, that would not count as a display of weak mental strength

Yeah well you would characterize simplistically and thus incorrectly

 

[Holmes]

I think that Djokovic's (relatively) lackluster forehand was what left him vulnerable against Nadal and Federer in their primes. But the same can be said about Federer's mental strength, which has cost him many winnable matches.
With that being said, which player would face the largest improvement? Let's say, we are taking 2006 Federer with 2015 Djokovic's mental strength (or whenever you felt Novak was at his mental peak) vs 2011 Djokovic with 2006 Federer forehand.

Djokovic pioneered going forehand to forehand with Roger and winning, which was a big part of why Roger's confidence was crushed in their rivalry.

 

[RS]

A better chin.

 

[tennis24x7]

Djokovic's forehand being a weakness is a myth. Just like for Wawrinka. For both of them, their forehand was always a better shot than their backhand. It's just that their backhands looked special compared to the rest of the tour, which made tennis fans like them more. While their forehands weren't the best in the tour, and so weren't "special" shots.

There are very few players whose backhand is actually better than their forehand. Gasquet was one such player, and even for him it's not as extreme as some might think.

So for the question, I can't even imagine Djokovic with Federer's forehand. It would just not go well with the rest of his game, and surely not improve him. Too different styles.

I would have agreed if it was anybody else's forehand. Federer's forehand is special and there is a reason not many have won a match targeting it, Nadal included. So if you throw that special forehand with Djokovic's world class backhand, he would have had many more GSs.

 

[Waves]

Has Fed ever DF’d on MP to lose when playing an ATP match? Has he tightened up so much on an OH that he couldn’t even bunt it over?

I think Novak could have 40 slams now with Feds FH(and a wee bit of his OH and volley skills).

 

[GAS]

The guy that choked in the final that would give him the CYGS is known for mental strength?!

 

[Klatu Verata Necktie]

How about Federer with Djokovic's backhand?

 

[Tshooter]

FEDR mentally weak. TTW continues to troll itself.

 

[Tshooter]

The guy that choked in the final that would give him the CYGS is known for mental strength?!

Beyond choking. He never showed up. He came, he cried, he left.

 

[Tshooter]

Djokovic pioneered going forehand to forehand with Roger and winning, which was a big part of why Roger's confidence was crushed in their rivalry.

 

[duaneeo]

So if you are losing matches helplessly to a player who's outplaying you, that would not count as a display of weak mental strength

So, what do you call it when the superior player at his peak/prime kept allowing lesser players to outplay him?

 

[DSH]

Nadal with Federer's serve and Djokovic's backhand would be unbeatable.

 

[GAS]

Beyond choking. He never showed up. He came, he cried, he left.

Not to mention he started the choking in Tokyo

 

[GabeT]

The guy that choked in the final that would give him the CYGS is known for mental strength?!

You remind me of someone I used to know…

 

[GabeT]

You have to know almost nothing about tennis to think Djokovic has a weak FH

 

[Clay lover]

Djokovic has had his unclutch moments... but few have hung on the way he has so frequently in the latter stages of GSes like 10-11 USO, 19 W against Fed, 12 AO and 18 W against Dal, and to a lesser extent 22 FO and 20 AO.

Fed is no slouch, but I'm just wondering if he could have benefitted during some of his close encounters with Djokodal during tight moments in slams if he had this almost pathological focus and courage like Djokovic did.

Djokovic's forehand is actually an underrated ATG forehand in its own right with great versatility and it suits his game very well on hard already. Maybe it gives him one or two more RGs or Ws, but nothing more.

Overall I pick Djokovic's mental strength

 

[Tshooter]

Djokovic has had his unclutch moments... but few have hung on the way he has so frequently in the latter stages of GSes like 10-11 USO, 19 W against Fed, 12 AO and 18 W against Dal, and to a lesser extent 22 FO and 20 AO.

Fed is no slouch, but I'm just wondering if he could have benefitted during some of his close encounters with Djokodal during tight moments in slams if he had this almost pathological focus and courage like Djokovic did.

Djokovic's forehand is actually an underrated ATG forehand in its own right with great versatility and it suits his game very well on hard already. Maybe it gives him one or two more RGs or Ws, but nothing more.

Overall I pick Djokovic's mental strength

 

[Clay lover]

Yeah when he falters he just seems to falter doesn't he but when it's tight it's like he's a different person. It's interesting. Same with Delpo when he lost, again not closely, and got emotional.

 

[ChrisRF]

That's a really good question.

Mental strength means so much in tennis, but on the other hand why would a player who has Federer's forehand and Djokovic's backhand ever get nervous in any match. He would literally dominate at will.

Remember that Federer himself was so dominant in his best years that we hardly saw the signs that he would be prone to choking when there's pressure.

 

[SonnyT]

I think Djokovic had one match and went on to lose. Federer had about 8 such matches and went on to lose.

If Federer had Djokovic's mentality, he would have close to none or one such match, starting with matches he had with Djokovic.

If Djokovic had Federer's FH, what specific matches would he have won?

It's a misconception that Djokovic do not get nervous or choke. He does, but usually he recovers from his mistakes to save the day. Watch WB '19 final, for example.

 

[Silentchimera]

I think that Djokovic's (relatively) lackluster forehand was what left him vulnerable against Nadal and Federer in their primes. But the same can be said about Federer's mental strength, which has cost him many winnable matches.
With that being said, which player would face the largest improvement? Let's say, we are taking 2006 Federer with 2015 Djokovic's mental strength (or whenever you felt Novak was at his mental peak) vs 2011 Djokovic with 2006 Federer forehand.

Coming close to winning is better than never having a chance. Federer played a high risk, high return game that required perfect execution (balls of steel (incredible mental strength!), especially on the big points). Djokovic has a defensive game that allows him to relax into longer rallies. Both players developed their games to succeed in the predominant playing conditions of those times.

 

[GAS]

You remind me of someone I used to know…

I'm friends with Manny.

 

[TheGoldenEra1990’s]

Feds main problem was mental against Nadal And Djoker. If he has Noles mental toughness he wins 50 slams probably. Djoker developed a nice forehand later in his career. I don’t think he needs Feds

 

[SonnyT]

Coming close to winning is better than never having a chance. Federer plays a high risk, high return game that requires perfect execution (balls of steel (incredible mental strength!), especially on the big points). Djokovic has a defensive game that allows him to relax into longer rallies. Both players developed their games to succeed in the predominant playing conditions of those times.

No game requires perfect execution, tennis or otherwise. Everybody makes mistakes, and has to recover from it. The one with greater strength will recover and remedy quicker.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

I would take Federer's serve over his forehand for Djokovic (even if he improved it a lot, it is still not peak Federer's level).

Djokovic's forehand is not as good as Federer's but in his best years (2008, 2011, 2023) it's really, really, good. Very underrated.

While his backhand on the other hand gets a bit overrated at times, it was incredible in 2011 but he slowly started losing confidence in the DTL shot.

 

[Silentchimera]

Feds main problem was mental against Nadal And Djoker. If he has Noles mental toughness he wins 50 slams probably.

Eh? Care to address my last post?

 

[Silentchimera]

No game requires perfect execution, tennis or otherwise. Everybody makes mistakes, and has to recover from it. The one with greater strength will recover and remedy quicker.

Another 5c for you! Nice!

 

[nolefam_2024]

I would take Federer's serve over his forehand for Djokovic (even if he improved it a lot, it is still not peak Federer's level).

Djokovic's forehand is not as good as Federer's but in his best years (2008, 2011, 2023) it's really, really, good. Very underrated.

While his backhand on the other hand gets a bit overrated at times, it was incredible in 2011 but he slowly started losing confidence in the DTL shot.

2015 djokovic went toe to toe with Federer at Wimbledon. That forehand was menacing.

Also his backhand is not overrated at all. Even today it's one of the best on tour. And he goes down the line many a times. The game is changing more and vs some guys like Medvedev going down the line is not working. Meddy has good enough forehand to go up the line. He clobbered Nole in 2021 USOpen with it. But come crunch time he will hit backhand far more often than not.

 

[Holmes]

A better chin.

Chinerer. Perhaps my favorite Feddy appellation.

 

[Holmes]

I have not visited the property. Is it worth the stay?

 

[RS]

Chinerer. Perhaps my favorite Feddy appellation.

Federer has a better chin than Wladimir Klitschko. I will give him that.

 

[SonnyT]

Djokovic did and does fine with his FH, which dominated Federer 6-1 in slams after '11. He doesn't need anyone's FH.

 

[mike danny]

Interesting take, could you add a little bit more please

Just look back on 2012-2014.

 

[mike danny]

USO 12 - the conditions were very windy in the final and also, Murray played extremely well. I doubt even 2011 Nole would've won, especially considering the windy conditions which were absent the previous year.

Mental strength is about finding ways to win in any conditions, not just when they are preferable to you.

 

[mike danny]

Djokovic's mental strength is better, but mental strength itself is entirely circumstantial and depends on so many things.

 

[rigged]

Federer with Djokovic's age.