Who had tougher competition: Federer 1st 10 Grand Slam Finals or Djokovic's last 10 Grand Slam finals?

[The Guru]

Third Serve and I tried that and it devolved into fan wars almost immediately

 

[The Guru]

Any chance you have that thread bookmarked TS can you pm me a link to it I'd like to read what you said again btw what I'm saying about discourse does not apply to you not that you care what I think just thought I'd put that out there

 

[RS]

Third Serve and I tried that and it devolved into fan wars almost immediately

Maybe certain matches should be left alone but yeah I remember that thread well.

That's why I say am not sure at the end.

 

[Third Serve]

Any chance you have that thread bookmarked TS can you pm me a link to it I'd like to read what you said again btw what I'm saying about discourse does not apply to you not that you care what I think just thought I'd put that out there

I actually went to find it before you posted this.

A Federer fan and a Djokovic fan rewatch the 2009 Wimbledon final

So it’s no secret that the 2009 Wimbledon final between Federer and Roddick (yes, another Roddick thread) has gained somewhat of a controversial reputation around here, at least in the past year or so. Some hail it as one of the greatest matches of all time, others label it a glorified...

tt.tennis-warehouse.com

There are some good replies to those posts but... yeah... a few of them aren't up to par. Post #15 in particular.

 

[RS]

Wasp does it but not always directly comparing to another match.

 

[RS]

Who played at a higher level?

1. Djokovic AO 16 final or Djokovic AO 15 final
2. Murray Wim 15 or Thiem AO 20
3. Nadal Wim 18 SF or Djokovic Wim 12 SF
4. Nadal AO 20 or Nadal Wim 19
5. Murray AO 13 final or Nadal USO 17 final
6. Murray Wim 12 or Roddick AO 04
7. Nadal Wim 11 SF or Federer USO 11 SF

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

No obviously not but you guys argue at people not opinions all the time and I just think it's distasteful because I do think you can add valuably to discussion you've been that way in the past. I mostly lurk nowadays and everytime I'm looking nowadays arguments are so personal. Idk. I'm not a fan. You don't have to care or agree just how I feel.

I see plenty of takes the opposite direction that I find completely insane but I don't make it personal unless they do first with idiots like octorok claiming I'm an immoral person and stuff like that. I use to enjoy the discourse. Don't anymore. Even the players get an insane amount of vitriol thrown at them just because they don't beat Djokovic. And fwiw I'm ready for the game to move on too. I think it'd be best for the game if Djokovic gets dethroned too (though I'll always root for him). But it's just so exhausting when every single match is this is the worst match ever everyone sucks you're an idiot if you think this is good tennis on and on. Still have hope it gets better once Novak is done but we'll see.

People do that in politics so why not tennis given it's also important to us lol. Many of your opinions are insulting, do you expect them to be taken in stride just like that?

Not fedfan fault tennis is in dire straits as the worst era is upon us. Djokovic is left to expose it but it's not like the level is somehow better without him.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Who played at a higher level?

1. Djokovic AO 16 final or Djokovic AO 15 final
2. Murray Wim 15 or Thiem AO 20
3. Nadal Wim 18 SF or Djokovic Wim 12 SF
4. Nadal AO 20 or Nadal Wim 19
5. Murray AO 13 final or Nadal USO 17 final
6. Murray Wim 12 or Roddick AO 04
7. Nadal Wim 11 SF or Federer USO 11 SF

AO 16
tie
Djo
dunno
guess Nadal had a higher gear
tie?
Federer

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

I actually went to find it before you posted this.

A Federer fan and a Djokovic fan rewatch the 2009 Wimbledon final

So it’s no secret that the 2009 Wimbledon final between Federer and Roddick (yes, another Roddick thread) has gained somewhat of a controversial reputation around here, at least in the past year or so. Some hail it as one of the greatest matches of all time, others label it a glorified...

tt.tennis-warehouse.com

There are some good replies to those posts but... yeah... a few of them aren't up to par. Post #15 in particular.

Some nice observations from metsguy, don'tcha think? Even if the air is off-putting but we all know what he's like anyway.

Those were maybe interesting writeups, but given persistent disagreement I imagine we need to go deeper in our quest for the truth and nitpick analysis down to single points and even shots throughout the whole match. Only then can the points of contention be truly isolated and opinions divided along clear lines (bad shot / good shot).

 

[NatF]

Some sort of point by point or match analysis thread would be handy on the matches we disagree on. But don't know if there is a point to it.

The problem is Guru and I will watch the same match and come to wildly different conclusions. One of us has to be off our rocker

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Watched a bit of the 2021 USO F, ballstriking quality is medicore compared to 2005.

I took the trouble to watch the whole damn match (for like the fourth time, yeesh) and am supremely confident Medvedev's puffballing would get killed by Fred lol. His game outside of the first serve is simply way too passive/slow. Fortunately for him (and us) Djokovic was feeling the weight of a mountain on his shoulders and gave up a ton of unforced errors.

 

[NatF]

No obviously not but you guys argue at people not opinions all the time and I just think it's distasteful because I do think you can add valuably to discussion you've been that way in the past. I mostly lurk nowadays and everytime I'm looking nowadays arguments are so personal. Idk. I'm not a fan. You don't have to care or agree just how I feel.

I see plenty of takes the opposite direction that I find completely insane but I don't make it personal unless they do first with idiots like octorok claiming I'm an immoral person and stuff like that. I use to enjoy the discourse. Don't anymore. Even the players get an insane amount of vitriol thrown at them just because they don't beat Djokovic. And fwiw I'm ready for the game to move on too. I think it'd be best for the game if Djokovic gets dethroned too (though I'll always root for him). But it's just so exhausting when every single match is this is the worst match ever everyone sucks you're an idiot if you think this is good tennis on and on. Still have hope it gets better once Novak is done but we'll see.

Well there's lots of takes I don't reply to as well you know...lol. Problem is when I come across one when I'm in a bad mood some poor guy gets hit with the wrath of a dozen sh!tty takes. I've been here too long and read too much crap. There are certain posters who I will be respectful of and others I won't. Blind agenda pushers, stats trolls or just general trolls just aren't going to get good replies from me - as from my perspective they're the ones ruining the forum. Just like you think I and others like me are ruining it. If you have the self control to lurk that's good, although you didn't on this occasion as you took a swipe at me...

 

[Neptune]

I think it'd be best for the game if Djokovic gets dethroned too (though I'll always root for him). But it's just so exhausting when every single match is this is the worst match ever everyone sucks you're an idiot if you think this is good tennis on and on. Still have hope it gets better once Novak is done but we'll see.

No one should have trouble handling butthurted Fedal fans' salty tears.

 

[NatF]

I took the trouble to watch the whole damn match (for like the fourth time, yeesh) and am supremely confident Medvedev's puffballing would get killed by Fred lol. His game outside of the first serve is simply way too passive/slow. Fortunately for him (and us) Djokovic was feeling the weight of a mountain on his shoulders and gave up a ton of unforced errors.

Yeah I watched 10 minutes of extended highlights and can't believe anyone would put that standard of hitting next to the 2005 F. Those softballs would get killed by both. Literally the only point against Agass is that his back gave out after three high octane sets but if doesn't choke he should win in straights by level...

 

[RS]

USO 21 F vs USO 05 F is a bit different to Med vs AA alone because the heavy majority agrees 05 Fed is the best player. That being like 95% at least.

 

[alexio]

need to create a thread about uso05vs21

 

[NatF]

USO 21 F vs USO 05 F is a bit different to Med vs AA alone because the heavy majority agrees 05 Fed is the best player. That being like 95% at least.

It takes two to tango, the inferior rally quality is obvious despite Agassi having the worst movement of the four.

 

[AgassiSuperSlam11]

There's just no benefit to talking about it anymore. There was always some arrogance and obnoxiousness attached to Fed fans in these sorts of discussions but they've become so toxic it's not even enjoyable to discuss anymore. Go in any thread and you can see them talking about how dumb and awful Djokovic fans are and how they've monopolized bad takes and such. I don't care what people believe and would happily engage anyone who I think is wrong in discussions but there's just not even a shred of decency anymore.

Some of these "Fed" fans also have said Nadal fans are "Low IQ." In fairness, there are respectful fans of all fanbases but there is certainly a portion of fans that you can't possibly have a rational discussion with.

 

[Third Serve]

Some nice observations from metsguy, don'tcha think? Even if the air is off-putting but we all know what he's like anyway.

Those were maybe interesting writeups, but given persistent disagreement I imagine we need to go deeper in our quest for the truth and nitpick analysis down to single points and even shots throughout the whole match. Only then can the points of contention be truly isolated and opinions divided along clear lines (bad shot / good shot).

lol iirc you were attacking metsman in that thread

 

[RS]

lol iirc you were attacking metsman in that thread

In that post 15 metsman quickly brought up Djo and Murray as quick as anything

 

[RS]

It takes two to tango, the inferior rally quality is obvious despite Agassi having the worst movement of the four.

A poll would tell but confident USO 05 wouldn't lose. Not worth my time watching highlights of 21 to compare so just going to take people's word here

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

lol iirc you were attacking metsman in that thread

Equal opportunity lashing, ha. I didn't skim over guruflop's funny takes either such as claiming Roddick is basically Kyrgios in their respective finals, good grief.

 

[Sudacafan]

Interesting thread.

 

[RS]

need to create a thread about uso05vs21

Thiem USO 20 SF vs Agassi USO 05 QF would be something new. Him against Hewitt USO 05 SF too.

 

[NatF]

Equal opportunity lashing, ha. I didn't skim over guruflop's funny takes either such as claiming Roddick is basically Kyrgios in their respective finals, good grief.

2022 Djokovic > 2009 Fed

A poll would tell but confident USO 05 wouldn't lose. Not worth my time watching highlights of 21 to compare so just going to take people's word here

I'm not confident. The 2005 highlights are good fun, but 2021 isn't worth you're time you're correct - which says it all.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Yeah I watched 10 minutes of extended highlights and can't believe anyone would put that standard of hitting next to the 2005 F. Those softballs would get killed by both. Literally the only point against Agass is that his back gave out after three high octane sets but if doesn't choke he should win in straights by level...

Medvedev might squeeze out the first set if he bots well like he did and so end up winning in five, but even then I wouldn't put it past him to lose in four given his general mugness >:

 

[RS]

Would prefer something like a comparison like USO 05 F vs AO 13/15 F or USO 05 F vs RG 21 SF or something like that.

 

[RS]

2022 Djokovic > 2009 Fed

I'm not confident. The 2005 highlights are good fun, but 2021 isn't worth you're time you're correct - which says it all.

I think there will be votes messing but till I see a serious poster come out and say 21 F > 05 F and it's at least 2/3 I wouldn't worry lol.

 

[NatF]

Medvedev might squeeze out the first set if he bots well like he did and so end up winning in five, but even then I wouldn't put it past him to lose in four given his general mugness >:

Yeah fair enough.

 

[AgassiSuperSlam11]

Interesting thread.

Not as interesting as a discussion about worms, Mezcal, and Wine.

 

[RS]

Equal opportunity lashing, ha. I didn't skim over guruflop's funny takes either such as claiming Roddick is basically Kyrgios in their respective finals, good grief.

He still gave Roddick a higher score maybe the targeting is a bit much.

 

[The Sinner]

Med AO 21 final is probably like a 5/10 and Roddick Wim 04 is at least a 7.5/10. That's my only big pushback but it is a pretty big one.

What's clear is the difference here isn't as big as people think on whichever side at least just looking at the finals chosen here. Don't see how you could call it a landside for either.

What’s your take on the USO 2005 AA vs 2021 Medvedev debate?

 

[The Sinner]

need to create a thread about uso05vs21

Because of this debate, I'm gonna have to re-watch that USO F 21 again. Somehow I can't recall Meddy playing that bad, as per what I'm reading on here. IMO, if Fed AO'07 and Djoko AO'11 were 9.5 or 10/10, then I'm calling it a 7 or 7.5/10 for Medv.

 

[RS]

What’s your take on the USO 2005 AA vs 2021 Medvedev debate?

Agassi in 4 or Med in 5

 

[thrust]

its obvious the last few years made the supposed 2004-07 look like a monster in comparison

The best of Roger's competition, Agassi, was well past 30 and injured in their final. Safin was inconsistent. In the end it really doesn't matter as officially, Novak was won 24 slams, Roger- 20.

 

[thrust]

Because of this debate, I'm gonna have to re-watch that USO F 21 again. Somehow I can't recall Meddy playing that bad, as per what I'm reading on here. IMO, if Fed AO'07 and Djoko AO'11 were 9.5 or 10/10, then I'm calling it a 7 or 7.5/10 for Medv.

As I recall it, Meddy played very well in the 21 USO final and Many of his serves were unreturnable.

 

[SonnyT]

Federer lost to Safin and didn't win any RG, from 04-07. Djokovic lost to Med & Raz; couldn't participate in one AO, WB and US; and won 2 RG, from 20-23. So Federer went 2 up on Djokovic.