Why Carpet Courts Were Perma Banned
- Thread starter The Blond Blur
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Hall of Fame
...already posted once or trice within the last few days 
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
If it’s not on the first page it doesn’t exist...already posted once or trice within the last few days
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
I really like that guy’s channel, he does a great job of researching and contextualizing off court history. So much goes into what we see as viewers on court and the level of access compared to team sport is sadly very vague and high-level.
I find it hilarious that Federer actually got to choose the surface of a Masters event btw.
I find it hilarious that Federer actually got to choose the surface of a Masters event btw.
RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
This is one of the reasons that I didn’t like Federer earlier on.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
For sure, plus his presentation is top notch. Every time I see he’s uploaded a new video I give it a gander. High quality marks all around.
It’s an disgrace, an scandal, an outrage!
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Wait, you me to tell me the ATP didn’t conspire to hurt Joker’s career by banning carpet?
Fabresque
Legend
This guy got everything handed to him on a silver platter and still wasn’t able to claim GOAThood LOL. One of the worst “all time great’s” we’ve ever seen.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
go outside, brother
metsman
G.O.A.T.
Lol this garbage is still going around. Honestly we need to ban these reddit sounding idiots from making tennis videos. This isn't basketball where no one knows anything about the history and you can sound smart via Google and Wikipedia.
Apart from the fact that no one should fully believe a guy named Jean Francois whatever, as they naturally predisposed to exaggeration and a flair for the dramatic, Federer didn't play Paris in 04/05 due to injury, skipped 06 due to already having played 92 matches that year before the YEC, and playing Paris would have taken him over 100 matches, so right off the bat anything that guy says is clearly bs. He played it in 03 and was fully intending to play in 04 and 05. Anyways Fed hated carpet so much that he showed up crippled to the 05 TMC on carpet and played Basel 06 on carpet. Does Federer generally prefer a slick indoor court to a carpet court? Sure, but due to the injury risk just about anyone would, and it's a guarantee that any player turning pro after the mid 90s or so would, which is why carpet started going the way of the horse and buggy around the turn of the century, not in freakin 2007 due to Federer. Anyways, Paris came up with some joke of an indoor hard court anyways besides 1 year past Federer's prime, so much for the theory that they wanted Fed to win. Then again, maybe that's what happen when the French try in tennis related matters anyways.
Paris switching from carpet was the death of carpet? What kind of complete drivel is this? Carpet was already on its way out. Madrid replaced the classic carpet tournament Stuttgart as the main Indoors masters, and was indoor hard court from the beginning in 2002. Many other tournaments like Vienna/Rotterdam also switched to hard around that time. The YEC switched in 2000, Shanghai tried bringing it back and then promptly switched it back. Basel, basically the last semi-major permanently carpet events besides Paris, switched in 2007. Paris was technically the last relevant tournament to get rid of carpet, and carpet was basically done in the early 2000s, it didn't set any dominoes in motion.
Apart from the fact that no one should fully believe a guy named Jean Francois whatever, as they naturally predisposed to exaggeration and a flair for the dramatic, Federer didn't play Paris in 04/05 due to injury, skipped 06 due to already having played 92 matches that year before the YEC, and playing Paris would have taken him over 100 matches, so right off the bat anything that guy says is clearly bs. He played it in 03 and was fully intending to play in 04 and 05. Anyways Fed hated carpet so much that he showed up crippled to the 05 TMC on carpet and played Basel 06 on carpet. Does Federer generally prefer a slick indoor court to a carpet court? Sure, but due to the injury risk just about anyone would, and it's a guarantee that any player turning pro after the mid 90s or so would, which is why carpet started going the way of the horse and buggy around the turn of the century, not in freakin 2007 due to Federer. Anyways, Paris came up with some joke of an indoor hard court anyways besides 1 year past Federer's prime, so much for the theory that they wanted Fed to win. Then again, maybe that's what happen when the French try in tennis related matters anyways.
Paris switching from carpet was the death of carpet? What kind of complete drivel is this? Carpet was already on its way out. Madrid replaced the classic carpet tournament Stuttgart as the main Indoors masters, and was indoor hard court from the beginning in 2002. Many other tournaments like Vienna/Rotterdam also switched to hard around that time. The YEC switched in 2000, Shanghai tried bringing it back and then promptly switched it back. Basel, basically the last semi-major permanently carpet events besides Paris, switched in 2007. Paris was technically the last relevant tournament to get rid of carpet, and carpet was basically done in the early 2000s, it didn't set any dominoes in motion.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Mets, the Fed bit was like shortest segment of the video lol. The guy breaks down tennis becoming more global. That meant more tennis was played in places like Asia where it is warm enough to host outdoor events with bigger venues. Bigger venues = more tickets can be sold = more money.
CHillTennis
Hall of Fame
Glad you like it.
Personally, I can't watch those videos.
That channel is like "Tennis for Noobs."
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
CHillTennis
Hall of Fame
^^Those are the people that watch these videos.
Kids and noobs.
I already know this stuff.
CHillTennis
Hall of Fame
He has a formula that works.
Sometimes it's good. Other times not so much.
I don't really like this style of content creating.
The pacing makes it difficult to sit through.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Good for you. But I’ve seen this topic come up many times here, and most people usually go with the tired talking points of “carpet causes more injuries” or the conspiracy theory of “Federer helped kill carpet court tennis”. When really the tennis landscape changes were the biggest influence on the fall of carpet. At the end of the day tennis is a business and like any business the point is to make money.
Kralingen
Talk Tennis Guru
Have to get something off my chest here, when I was first learning about tennis and hadn't ever watched indoor carpet matches.
I thought tennis carpet was the same as more commonly used carpet, like home decor fabric carpet in my living room. This was around 2009 or something.
Obviously the use of video immediately cleared this up but for a good 2-3 years I believed tennis was at one point played on this:
I thought tennis carpet was the same as more commonly used carpet, like home decor fabric carpet in my living room. This was around 2009 or something.
Obviously the use of video immediately cleared this up but for a good 2-3 years I believed tennis was at one point played on this:
metsman
G.O.A.T.
that has nothing to do with anything. Carpet got discontinued because of injury risk and court speed reasons.
D
Deleted member 780630
Guest
Clay kind of looked like sand when I first saw it so I thought RG was played at the beach or something. When I found out it was called clay I then thought it was the stuff Play-Doh was made of and I was like "why are they playing tennis on that?" I was pretty dumb as a kid.Have to get something off my chest here, when I was first learning about tennis and hadn't ever watched indoor carpet matches.
I thought tennis carpet was the same as more commonly used carpet, like home decor fabric carpet in my living room. This was around 2009 or something.
Obviously the use of video immediately cleared this up but for a good 2-3 years I believed tennis was at one point played on this:
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
It was literally in the video. As was everything else you just listed, but ok
kevin qmto
Hall of Fame
Flashy graphics and a lot of pictures. But Cult tennis’s videos remain very much style oriented and quite short on substance. He also relies heavily on click-baitey sounding titles.
tennis_error
Professional
tennis_error
Professional
China or Japan are warmer than south Europe or Northern America?
Other thing, indoor tennis venues are/can be mostly bigger than outdoor ones, in tennis.
What are you talking about?
Oval_Solid
Hall of Fame
it doesnt get cold in asia
only rainy
amazing no?
didnt the youtube video source its info from the god save our king article?
if roger loves playing on carpets carpet would still be used today
only rainy
amazing no?
didnt the youtube video source its info from the god save our king article?
if roger loves playing on carpets carpet would still be used today
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The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
First off, the video is talking about the fall season which would take place after the European and NA HC seasons took place. When tennis became more global there were now more countries able to host tournaments. By having new host countries it means you are expanding your market and thus are able to sell your product to more people. Which again the point of any business is to make money.
As far as the second part of your post goes, the biggest stadiums in tennis are outdoor ones. And if you have a problem with what’s in the video you can leave a comment on the dude’s video by telling him how wrong he is.
smalahove
Hall of Fame
There are a lot of variation when it comes to carpet surface. Some thick, almost home-like, some with varying degrees of clay in them, and some thin and almost HC-like. The latter one is ime, a royal pita to play on, due to a super low bounce and extreme skidding. This is a surefire way to learn bad habits to beginners.
McGradey
Hall of Fame
Personally, I’m not huge on these guy-reads-Wikipedia-page style pieces of ‘content’. There is another channel popping up with cookie cutter videos entitled ‘how good was player X … really?”
Then the video is essentially reading out match results for 10 minutes to a montage of stock video and screenshots.
I mean whatever floats your boat. It obviously takes a lot of effort to make this stuff and it is informative. But I don’t get much insight from them, tend to drift off after a few minutes.
Then the video is essentially reading out match results for 10 minutes to a montage of stock video and screenshots.
I mean whatever floats your boat. It obviously takes a lot of effort to make this stuff and it is informative. But I don’t get much insight from them, tend to drift off after a few minutes.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
The video was garbage and misleading/clickbait beginning to end, two words and a picture about injuries don't change that.It was literally in the video. As was everything else you just listed, but ok
Making out the Paris masters changing to hard in 2007 to be at all important to anything is idiotic. It's like talking about how Mischa Zverev, Deliciano, and Karlovic retiring is the death knell of serve and volley. The Asia narrative makes no sense, there's 1 outdoor HC tournament in Asia anyone cares about and it started in 2009.
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metsman
G.O.A.T.
What does Asia have to do with carpet? Yeah the TMC was in Shanghai in 2002 and then in 2005, but on carpet funnily enough, what does that have to do with Lisbon and Madrid basically doing away with carpet permanently at the two biggest indoor events in the early 00s? Both those events moved from Germany further West, not East.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
It’s literally in the video man. With the tennis market expanding there were more options to host tournaments in new countries. This meant there could be more options to play tennis outdoors in warmer weather where they would use HC as the main playing surface.
Carpet was already being phased out due to injury concern and to try and capture a larger casual audience. That’s been talked about ad nauseam. But the business and logistics side of things rarely if ever gets mentioned and that’s what the video focused on quite a bit.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Again, that was practically a footnote.
As far as the Asian swing goes, you can basically say that for the rest of the fall season. There’s 2 MS1000’s (with only 1 being played indoors) and then the YEC. Other than that there’s not a whole lot to left to play for.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
i want carpet back. it was so soft and pleasing
Zara
G.O.A.T.
That is so rude that scene LMHO
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
This was a pretty interesting video that made some rather in-depth points. Some of which that I haven’t really heard before/considered. And yes @Red Rick it is Federer’s fault
Not seen the video yet. I don't think it was Federer's fault alone though. I thought it was both him and Nadal and a bunch others requesting the ATP to remove carpet from the tour. I don't know how vocal Nadal was then but Federer probably had the big say in it.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
It’s not really Ol’ Rog’s fault. That’s just one of Rick’s catchphrases lol. Carpet was being phased out in part because of injury concerns, and trying to capture a more casual audience.
But the video also talks about the changes in the tennis landscape such as: an expanding market, logistics, and revenue that played a big role in carpet being banned.
medieval_remnant
Rookie
Is the bounce significantly lower on carpet? Seems so. Much easier to see than speed
CHillTennis
Hall of Fame
The guys videos are laughably bad.
Now he is saying that the SABR saved Roger's career.
Seriously, go anywhere but Cult Tennis to get your information.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
What was the point to bumping this nearly year old thread?The guys videos are laughably bad.
Now he is saying that the SABR saved Roger's career.
Seriously, go anywhere but Cult Tennis to get your information.
jackson vile
G.O.A.T.
Wow, how is it not illegal to tailor a whole tournament just so that one player can be guaranteed to win it?
This really calls into question a lot of Federer’s records. Did he really earn them and how much help was he receiving and when?
Also, as we see Federer was not a master of fast courts or S&V play style as his fans would beg you to believe. It would seem that slower lower courts were Federer’s true preference.
This really calls into question a lot of Federer’s records. Did he really earn them and how much help was he receiving and when?
Also, as we see Federer was not a master of fast courts or S&V play style as his fans would beg you to believe. It would seem that slower lower courts were Federer’s true preference.
optic yellow
Legend
To inform us that Fedr = soft.What was the point to bumping this nearly year old thread?
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