James P
G.O.A.T.
Disgust
Source: https://www.atptour.com/en/news/year-end-fedex-atp-rankings-release-2020
(History begins in 1973)
Source: https://www.atptour.com/en/news/year-end-fedex-atp-rankings-release-2020
(History begins in 1973)
Zero Americans in Year End ATP Top 20 For The First Time in History
- Thread starter James P
- Start date
game..set..match
Semi-Pro
americans don't care about tennis.
For most of TTW, it begins much later than that.
James P
G.O.A.T.
I think it's an open question whether an American will be in the top 20 next year, as well.
Isner and Querrey careers are winding down. Fritz, Opelka, Tiafoe, Paul all have holes in their games. Sandgren and Johnson have probably already peaked. Who's going to break in next season?
Isner and Querrey careers are winding down. Fritz, Opelka, Tiafoe, Paul all have holes in their games. Sandgren and Johnson have probably already peaked. Who's going to break in next season?
Third Serve
Talk Tennis Guru
Can't hear ya over the sound of my freedom!
In all seriousness, it truly is a sad state of American tennis right now. I think I remember some Roddick interview about a year back where he said something along the lines of "... and the new American talent" except he paused a little bit right before saying that as if he was hesitating. I may need to go back and find that to make sure.
It's interesting because of how the country was quite a force on the tennis scene in the 70's to 90's. You had world-class ATGs like Connors, Mac, Sampras, Agassi. And then the players just a tier down like Ashe, Smith, Courier, Chang, etc. Since then, they've kind of become a stereotype of themselves. The typical one-dimensional big serve, the big, powerful forehand, and poor(er) backhand. Sampras was basically the perfect embodiment of that type of play, in a broad sense. Then we went down to Roddick who, while still respectable, was far closer to the American player stereotype. And then you have guys like Isner, Fritz, Querrey, Sock, and now Opelka and... you know what I mean. I can't really explain this development, honestly.
Opelka is probably your best bet, unless you get Medvedev to defect.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
As usual duh. Doesn't matter in this case though, it's true the last time there were no USAians among top players was when tennis was in its infancy. US men's tennis is ded.
Start da Game
Hall of Fame
definitely a historic moment in men's tennis.......
JaoSousa
Hall of Fame
Humungously awesome since 1776
Can't hear ya over the sound of my freedom!
PeoplesChamp
Legend
Some say 2008 while others say 2011.
JaoSousa
Hall of Fame
I say 2015
PeoplesChamp
Legend
On topic though, it's pretty sad as an American to see this happening. I'm claiming Shapo for us dammit.
PeoplesChamp
Legend
Lol, forgot that one.
r2473
G.O.A.T.
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Crazy Finn
Hall of Fame
Frankly, there's zero Americans that deserve to be in the top 20.
I don't really care, because I root for players, not flags in tennis.
Opelka? Lol. I suppose he might be able to serve his way into the teens, but a player that serves and lumbers around without much else won't get too close to the top 10.
There have been several threads I contributed on that discuss the state of American tennis. If you look at the top 25, most of them have somewhat all-around games and are quite capable of playing from the baseline with solid groundies. I know some lament the nature of the current game (I'm not taking a side on that at the moment) but basically, it's difficult for one dimensional players to be too successful, nowadays. There are plenty of players that might not have Opelka's serve, but they have highly effective serves, solid groundstrokes, and can move. One out of three won't cut it.
I don't really care, because I root for players, not flags in tennis.
Opelka? Lol. I suppose he might be able to serve his way into the teens, but a player that serves and lumbers around without much else won't get too close to the top 10.
There have been several threads I contributed on that discuss the state of American tennis. If you look at the top 25, most of them have somewhat all-around games and are quite capable of playing from the baseline with solid groundies. I know some lament the nature of the current game (I'm not taking a side on that at the moment) but basically, it's difficult for one dimensional players to be too successful, nowadays. There are plenty of players that might not have Opelka's serve, but they have highly effective serves, solid groundstrokes, and can move. One out of three won't cut it.
Actually, it's not. Most of the top players are VERY one dimensional.
Tennis_Freak99
Legend
You cannot be serious!!
Subway Tennis
Legend
IRT to the men, good old Isner did his part for years with admirable consistency but even he was only a sporadic contender at majors and m1000. His consistency and huge game ensured there was always a US flag in the top twenty for a decade and it probably made US men's tennis seem healthier than it actually was from 2010-present.
It's partially an attitudinal problem imo. The only U.S. men who seem serious enough with the mentality and maturity required for pro tennis are all guys who have a ceiling in their games below the major-winning level. Nakashima, Mackenzie Mack, Escobedo, Fritz, Tiafoe, Johnson, Kudla etc etc. These are serious guys who seem like mature adults but their games are slightly toothless (with the exception of Fritz and Tiafoe).
The rest of the US players making main draws at majors seem like space cadets or absolute meatheads. Too soft or immature and dont seem to have the discipline to cope with constant travel required for tennis or the motivation to cope with being away from home the entire year. Even guys like Querrey and Sock, loaded with powerful games and talent have behaved like idiots recently. Querrey with his behaviour in Russia, and Sock with other displinary aspects. There's definitely time for Sock to redeem hinself, but Querrey might not be welcome back on tour after the crap he pulled.
Meanwhile the female players have been carrying U.S. tennis on their shoulders since Roddick retired.
3 of the last 4 majors have all had an American woman in the singles final. And youve got superstars like Kenin breaking through and winning majors, and also players like Keys who are consistent forces at majors at a level just below the finals (or sometimes making a major final).
It's partially an attitudinal problem imo. The only U.S. men who seem serious enough with the mentality and maturity required for pro tennis are all guys who have a ceiling in their games below the major-winning level. Nakashima, Mackenzie Mack, Escobedo, Fritz, Tiafoe, Johnson, Kudla etc etc. These are serious guys who seem like mature adults but their games are slightly toothless (with the exception of Fritz and Tiafoe).
The rest of the US players making main draws at majors seem like space cadets or absolute meatheads. Too soft or immature and dont seem to have the discipline to cope with constant travel required for tennis or the motivation to cope with being away from home the entire year. Even guys like Querrey and Sock, loaded with powerful games and talent have behaved like idiots recently. Querrey with his behaviour in Russia, and Sock with other displinary aspects. There's definitely time for Sock to redeem hinself, but Querrey might not be welcome back on tour after the crap he pulled.
Meanwhile the female players have been carrying U.S. tennis on their shoulders since Roddick retired.
3 of the last 4 majors have all had an American woman in the singles final. And youve got superstars like Kenin breaking through and winning majors, and also players like Keys who are consistent forces at majors at a level just below the finals (or sometimes making a major final).
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
This tends to happen when a sport really goes global. There are only 20 slots and 250 odd countries.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Subway Tennis
Legend
Absolutely no excuse because the American women are killing it.
I'd say it has way more to do with the juvenilisation and general deterioration in American men than anything else.
Pack of parochial, soft crybabies.
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
USA USA USA
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
"Andy when is the next American man gonna win a Slam"
Can't hear ya over the sound of my freedom!
In all seriousness, it truly is a sad state of American tennis right now. I think I remember some Roddick interview about a year back where he said something along the lines of "... and the new American talent" except he paused a little bit right before saying that as if he was hesitating. I may need to go back and find that to make sure.
It's interesting because of how the country was quite a force on the tennis scene in the 70's to 90's. You had world-class ATGs like Connors, Mac, Sampras, Agassi. And then the players just a tier down like Ashe, Smith, Courier, Chang, etc. Since then, they've kind of become a stereotype of themselves. The typical one-dimensional big serve, the big, powerful forehand, and poor(er) backhand. Sampras was basically the perfect embodiment of that type of play, in a broad sense. Then we went down to Roddick who, while still respectable, was far closer to the American player stereotype. And then you have guys like Isner, Fritz, Querrey, Sock, and now Opelka and... you know what I mean. I can't really explain this development, honestly.
Andy:
As for why it is?
- Tennis became very competitive in a LOT more countries, especially compared to the really early days of the open era when it was basically US vs Australia everywhere.
- US womens tennis is still doing as fine as ever
- At the highest echelons, Slam level, things are pretty stochastic, especially when talking about having multiple Slam champions, so no American mulitple Slam winner can be forgiven in the Big 4 era
Now for the real problems I would say
- Tennis became a lot more professional, and the US does not keep up. It seems to me like the goal of tennis academies in the US is to turn out college level players or something.
- I think tennis and good coaching is more prohibitively expensive in the US than in other countries. The kids who'se parents can afford a great junior coaching aren't the ones who need tennis to pick themselves up by their bootstraps so it'll always be an ill advised career decision, maybe more so in the US than in other places.
- Tennis in the US probably suffers more from competition of other sports than elsewhere. I'd say in Europe and many other places the only sport that truly siphons off everything else would be
- I think the varsity/college sports systems probably play a big role as well. To my knowledge, these things aren't really a thing in Europe. In my opinion, those systems drive the mentality and goal setting, as well as the coaching etc, and maybe talented kids waste way too much time playing kids from Chump High rather than playing internationally?
- Lastly, I think slow HC like the majority of the US is just a worse court type to learn the game than clay, where the majority of Euro talent grows up on.
I don't think you can really blame the US for not having Slam winners to a huge degree like many do. GB only has Murray and is doomed to fall into irrelevance. France hasn't won once since the 80s. Australia has produced nothing since Hewitt. But not having a top 20 player for the US is just too dire. What they should do IMO is look at what a place like Cañada is doing right. What's the tennis background of guys like Shapovalovalovalov, FAA, Raonic, etc. As far as I'm aware, they mostly had a DIY type coaching with financial support from the national TA? That's probably a way better option than the Nick Bolletieri type schools where everyone is stunted in the same way. I think it's actually a big difference between men and womens tennis is that those type of tennis schools can produce winning talent in the womens game but not in the mens game.
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S
Stannis Baratheon
Guest
Only now did I get the whole scope of how much Fraud traumatized poor Andy.
NonP
Legend
I really couldn't care less. I just wanna see a youngster with real ATG potential, from anywhere.
And as some of you have noted our women are doing fine. It's the men who are lagging behind, which is very fitting in this Age of Trump where performative masculinity is mistaken for authority by a sizable segment of the population.
And as some of you have noted our women are doing fine. It's the men who are lagging behind, which is very fitting in this Age of Trump where performative masculinity is mistaken for authority by a sizable segment of the population.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Lel your women ain't doing well in general either. Three top-20'ers, of which one is an ancient T-rex and one is a BBB choker. Russian-born Kenin saves your buttholes.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
We're too busy eating wings 
NonP
Legend
Which is still more than any other nation's top 20. Plus Kenin's family moved to the US just a few months after her birth, which makes her for all intents and purposes a full-blooded American. Apart from American Indians no one really is a "native" American, which remains at once the blessing and curse of this country.
alexio
G.O.A.T.
..and running to the looWe're too busy eating wings
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Emigrants have a different mentality, that's the point. Kenin is second gen, her parents are Russian and she speaks Russian as well btw. The next promising talent is Anisimova, also second generation. Gauff will save your asses properly in a couple years though, sadly enough.
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
The women are doing fine because young American female athletes pursue tennis, because it is perhaps the most lucrative, or one of the most lucrative, potential earning directions for athletic female prodigies. They will never earn as much being a successful soccer, basketball etc. player because those salaries pale in comparison to the prize money for a successful WTA player.
The men on the other hand are far more likely to rise to prominence and wealth playing any number of other sports as opposed to tennis. So young male athletes simply don't choose to play tennis.
The men on the other hand are far more likely to rise to prominence and wealth playing any number of other sports as opposed to tennis. So young male athletes simply don't choose to play tennis.
alexio
G.O.A.T.
ее отец тоже русский? фамилия просто смущает,..круто, спс за открытие, окорок, я и не знал что она с наших краев плюс еще и на русском говорит
D
Deleted member 771407
Guest
In many fields it would not be an issue, since women produce the same results as men. In sports though, and that includes tennis, the highest level of the sport, be it physically but also technically, is by far on the men's side. So for those who care about having some of the best players in the worlds, having the best female players doesn't really cut it.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Кенина она. Как Татьяна Головина в нулевых. Только фамилию не склоняет на западный манер.
alexio
G.O.A.T.
аа точно, что-то я ступил
иголкин, пуговкин,..точно хаха
NonP
Legend
We're too busy eating wings
Some of us prefer our chicken without bones!
Don't think it's that. Gotta give credit where it's due:
Yes, I've made this same point myself. In the early OE top tennis players' earnings were quite comparable to those of their peers in the major team sports, which obviously isn't true anymore. And while endorsements can make up for much of the gap that luxury is denied to most tennis players without the Big 3's name recognition (and Nishikori's in the lucrative Japanese market).
But you see, they're very much a minority in the grand scheme of things. Most fans are attracted to athletes for reasons other than pure athleticism, which is why the WTA did and still occasionally do outpace the ATP in viewership. And let's not pretend even most of us are here purely for the tennis.
Red Rick
Bionic Poster
Honestly it's a very intersting question why in the US and Canada it's mostly immigrants who carrry the torch in tennis. Weren't Sampras and Agassi 2nd generation transplants as as well?
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
alexio
G.O.A.T.
sampras is greek, agassi is agasyan (armenian)..simple
InsideOut900
Legend
Sampras should come out of retirement next year and show them all how it's done.
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